made by the most marvelous @changelingsandothernonsense , I present to you Loriel Elsinlock, rebel, fugitive, and secret Last Dragonborn of Tamriel! He turned out amazing, Ceth! Thank you so much!

oozey mess

shark vs the universe

blake kathryn

JBB: An Artblog!
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$LAYYYTER
ojovivo
Show & Tell
todays bird

Product Placement
Peter Solarz
cherry valley forever

#extradirty

@theartofmadeline
Cosimo Galluzzi
we're not kids anymore.
Lint Roller? I Barely Know Her

pixel skylines

Janaina Medeiros
seen from Iraq
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@loriel-elsinlock
made by the most marvelous @changelingsandothernonsense , I present to you Loriel Elsinlock, rebel, fugitive, and secret Last Dragonborn of Tamriel! He turned out amazing, Ceth! Thank you so much!
how does table etiquette differ between races/provinces? would it apply to all the population or only in formal company?
There are many rituals and customs surrounding both cooking and eating in Tamriel, and each race is different regarding what's considered appropriate behaviour where food is concerned. Keep this list in mind if you're traveling across Tamriel, especially if you're staying with local hosts! These rules apply mostly to eating with new friends or out in public, in both formal and semi-formal settings such as homes, taverns, and restaurants. While most Tamrielic peoples are pretty forgiving of poor table manners in informal company and settings, remembering these tips will show your hosts that you're both cultured and polite! ~Talviel
Dunmer
The Dunmer are all about rank, and regardless of whether one hails from the Great Houses or the Ashlands, communal dining is a proving ground for outlanders who aren't familiar with Dunmeri customs. Traditionally, the head of the house or clan gets served (or serves themselves) first, and the serving order depends on one's political ranking, age, and social status. For example, a younger Dark Elf who's a general would be permitted to eat before an elder who is lower in social standing. However, traditional hospitality also dictates that the head of the table can give up their first serving to others as an act of honour. This is common when hosting guests, and if you are given the first serving it means you are a true guest of honour. Don't mess it up by displaying poor table etiquette!
Altmer
For the Altmer, table etiquette is everything. One wrong move at the dinner table, no matter how small, will have you disgraced throughout the Summerset Isles and will ensure you'll probably never be invited to dine at any high society soirées ever again. Even young Altmer aren't excused from the strict rules, and table etiquette is generally studied for years before any Altmer are allowed their debut in high society. It would take years to go through the intricacies of High Elf dining faux pas, but in my experience the biggest atrocity one can commit at the dining table is speaking with your mouth full and chewing with your mouth open. In fact, most meals in Altmer households and taverns alike are usually silent (this is why bards are usually employed to stop things from being too awkward). So if you're ever dining with a High Elf, don't be offended if they don't gush over the food right away- it's a case of eat first, talk later!
Orc
You're probably wondering why I even included the Orsimer at all, because most races are under the (wrongful!) impression that they have no table etiquette. However, being allowed to eat with a stronghold is a huge honour, and they have a couple of rules. Firstly, no fighting until after mealtime! Yes, every now and then someone gets mad at the dining table, but fights are reserved for after meals and they have to be taken outside. Brawling in the dining room is considered to be in extremely poor taste even for Orcs, so don't even think about it. The second rule is showing the chef appreciation at the end of the meal...by letting out a loud, healthy burp. I'm not joking! If an Orcish chef comes up to you, you should express your gratitude for your meal by belching. The louder the belch, the better the meal!
Breton
Of all the races of men, the Bretons are the fussiest when it comes to table manners. When dining in High Rock, be sure to brush up on identifying the right cutlery and glasses. Knowing the difference between a snail and a dessert fork, or which knife to use for fish or bantam guar, is sure to impress your Breton hosts and show that you care enough about their food and culture to appreciate using the correct tableware. And for the love of the Divines, please don't drink anything but wine out of a wine glass.
Khajiit
The Khajiit are fairly laid back about dining etiquette, with a few exceptions. Eating with your hands is common, but only after washing them very thoroughly beforehand! Not washing your hands before a meal is a sign of poor upbringing, bad hygiene, and being greedy. On that note, ALWAYS use a serving spoon when sprinkling moon sugar on your food! Not only is the stuff awfully sticky, but nobody wants to eat from a communal moon sugar dish that's had somebody else's fingers in it!
Imperial
The golden rule when dining in Cyrodiil is to know your wine, which is always present at every meal (yes, even at breakfast for some)! You don't have to be a sommelier, but being able to differentiate between a pinot noir and a merlot is something fairly basic that any fan of Imperial cuisine should master. Not only that, but knowing which wine to pair with your food is crucial- asking for a glass of moscato with your main, for example, is bound to cause quite a scandal. If you're ever in doubt, ask your server or the chef what they recommend to prevent the worst faux pas in the Province!
Argonian
Argonians are actually my favourite people to dine with in Tamriel, because they're extremely hospitable folk who love sharing their food! A common custom with Argonians is to have food brought out in large serving bowls which you can help yourself to, with everyone sitting in a circle on the floor around the serving dishes. Like the Khajiit, eating with your hands is common, and washing them well is a prerequisite (not only for politeness, but also because you really don't want to get swamp sickness). While you don't need to worry about how much you eat, be mindful of the elders and hatchlings at the meal, who usually get a bit more out of respect and care.
Redguard
There aren't many hard rules for eating with Redguards, but it's important to be courteous to your hosts and always offer them the first and last bites. This causes a lot of confusion for foreigners, as Redguards are known for being very pushy with their hospitality, especially when it comes to food. Don't fall for the trick though- it is customary to decline what you are offered no less than three times before you can polish off whatever's left! Accepting immediately is seen as greedy, and flat-out refusing is viewed as extremely rude and ungrateful.
Bosmer
The Bosmer, regardless of whether or not they're Green Pact compliant, are sticklers about food wastage, and for good reason! Wood Elf cuisine is usually difficult and slow to cook, and the best way to express your appreciation during mealtimes is to finish every last drop and crumb in front of you. Trust me, I know it can be difficult especially if you're not used to Bosmeri food, but please do your best to finish whatever you're given or have ordered, because your chef will be very sad rather than offended if you don't (and that's almost worse).
Nord
Finally, we return to my people. Like the Orcs, most people wouldn't think that Nords have much in the way of table manners, but there are a couple of things you should bear in mind when eating in Skyrim. Like the Bosmer, food wastage is viewed with disdain. While you're allowed to eat as much as you like (which is actually encouraged!), be sure to take only as much as you can eat. Leaving leftovers on a plate is quite the affront, but asking for a takeaway box is even worse. Not only is Nord food meant to be eaten fresh on the spot, it doesn't exactly keep well and bringing home your partially-eaten steak and potatoes is seen as stingy and cheap. If you're really struggling, it's totally acceptable to ask your Nord friends to help you out if you're close. If you don't know anyone around you, it's also acceptable to feed your leftovers and scraps to the dogs and pigs. Also, unless you're at a tavern or are told otherwise, wash your plate and put it away or your host may very well smash it over your head for presuming that they'll do it for you!
Hey pookie!!! Ok so I really want to know what irl cultures are used for the dunmer cuz I see either Chinese or Japanese and it makes me so confused sometimes because I can never find a definitive answer so Iâm hoping you can enlighten me bcs youâre like THE dunmer expert in my eyes and you always have great headcanons <33 feel free to ramble as much as you want I WILL be taking notesđđ«¶
Hey there! I do love me some dunmer rambling. (Just a note, most of my Dunmer HC are based on what I've noticed playing Morrowind. So some influences come ESO might be different, I just haven't really managed to get into MMOs.)
Now I can never find a 100% certain source for the exact influences Bethesda uses for their inspo as far as Dunmer are concerned, but I have a few guesses based on my own knowledge and research.
I see influences from various Chinese and Japanese historical periods, particularly for the Redoran, who seem to be closely influenced by BushidĆ. At least as far as their rules around honour and combat are concerned.
I've picked up on a lot of South Asian influence when it comes to the Tribunal and the religion they have built around them. A lot of Vivec's sermons remind me of the Vedas, plus his artistic depictions as well as the Tribunal in general remind me of what you find in Hindu and Buddhist art across South and South-east Asia. I find that there's a lot of similarities between the art you find on ALMSIVI shrines and in temples and Wayang puppets from Java.
There's Mesopotamian influences in both Redoran and Hlaalu architecture, as well as significant influences from Sumer in Chimeri architecture. Dunmeri strongholds in game are very clearly influenced by Ziggurats. I've even noticed some interesting ruins along Kogoruhn's outskirts that are eerily similar to some late Bronze Age dwellings that I have excavated myself.
Below is a pic of the Kogoruhn Citadel.
And the Anu/White Temple at Uruk
Platformed structures with administrative and or religious site on top and an inner structure which is usually administration and storage. You can also point towards similar inspirations for the cantons in both Vivec City and Molag Mar. I can also see inspo from Kowloon Walled City which is a whole interesting topic in and of itself. The Vivec Cantons are a series of cramped, winding hallways filled with apartments and shops and all the workings of a city. It's chaotic but what city isn't.
I've found that a lot of House Hlaalu architecture resembles Babylonian two storied houses.
(A terracotta model of an Old Assyrian Period "spirit house" and what Joshi would refer to as bumfuck Balmora.)
Telvanni are a tricky one, since I haven't truly tackled them yet, but one point of interest for me is what they call their dwellings. The term Tel in Dunmeris translates to tower, and we generally associate it with Telvanni Wizard towers. The term Tel or Tell in archaeology refers to a man made hillock that consists of multiple layers of habitation.
So whenever I see a damn mushroom I go "That's not a hill".
Ashlanders are where I've put most of my focus because they're just cool. I've noticed that there's influence taken from nomadic Turkic and Mongolian cultures and this influences parts of the language, whereas the rest of Dunmeris seems to be influenced by Semitic languages. You see terms used like Khan and Yurt which both have origins in Mongolian and Turkic languages respectively. They tend to use specifically Assyrian naming conventions, and a lot are taken from the Assyrian King List. Compare what's there to the Ashlander section of this list and I swear the amount of times Ashur is used...
When I write my Ashlanders, I draw mostly from Mongolian and Turkic cultural practices during the Mongol Empire through to the Timurid Empire. I also take inspiration from Tengrism for their religious practices, as I feel that just stating "ancestor worship" like the lore does is a bit too broad. I take death rite inspiration from Ancient Egypt, the Pazyryk burials, and the Chinchorro culture as well as aspects from Zoroastrianism and Tengrism. I also have aspects of Horse Burials when dealing with how Ashlanders in game view guar.
Indoril and Dres I haven't quite fleshed out yet so I won't comment on influences there. I am basing my Nerevar off of Timur and his conquests with Josh reflecting some of that when he conducts his. Again I'll be basing this off of the aforementioned Khanates.
But yeah, while I don't know exactly what cultures Bethesda uses specifically, I think they're pulling from multiple sources from across Asia. Mind you they do this for a lot of the races, so it can confuse me at times XD.
Iâve really gotta respect Morrowind and its writers for giving the Battle of Red Mountain a core of truth surrounded by varying half-truths and interpretations. It fits really well from a storytelling standpoint, and even in context with lore and how people generally are
There are multiple recordings of what happened to Nerevar and the battle, and they in a way all make sense, and it makes sense that there canât be one true retelling.
This is a battle that was fought thousands of years ago by tons of people, so the basic facts can line up will certain details can vary through the retelling, especially as it passes by word of mouth for so long. On top of that, the important parts of the event that are so debated are told by unreliable narrators, people who have been told the events over hundreds of years and may have/did change them to match the teachings of the tribunal, and the god kings themselves
They have a vested interest in keeping themselves as the heroes, but in the end I think they could have forgotten parts of the truth themselves, or told themselves their own lies so many times that they are starting to believe it too. The may be man-made gods, but they first were mortal, with mortal minds and memories which are easily distorted and easy to trick, even if done by just themselves.
On top of all THAT thereâs even the fact that certain aspect of the story, mainly the fate of the Dwemer, are still a mystery because everyone there just admits, âyeah, we have no idea what all that was, they just disappeared and we can only guess what happened and whyâ
Itâs just some great writing that Iâm sure has been talked about to death but I wanted to throw my ow thoughts out there too.
Orsinium Tapestry
Concept art for The Elder Scrolls: Online
Art by Mathew Weathers
Orsinium Components
Concept art for The Elder Scrolls: Online
Art by Mathew Weathers
Orsinium
Concept art for The Elder Scrolls: Online
Art by Mathew Weathers
Orsinium Furniture
Concept art for The Elder Scrolls: Online
Art by Mathew Weathers
Orsinium
Concept art for The Elder Scrolls: Online
Art by Mathew Weathers
Bleakfalls Barrow 3D render with drawn in detail
Concept art for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
Art by Adam Adamowicz
Putting the âarchâ into âarcheryâ
more of all this nonsense on Patreon
loveeee characters who think they're likable but not lovable. characters who know they have surface-level admirable or alluring traits and so make sure to highlight those traits so that nobody looks closer to see what's underneath. characters who know they're hot or clever or cool and use that as a suit of armor so that no one ever gets close to them, because when they strip bare and show their vulnerability they're not any of those things, which means they have nothing left to make up for who they inherently are
Fuck that post going around saying "you can have coffee in your story without justifying it :) you don't need to explain everything :)" I want, no, I DEMAND a fully researched ethnobotanical paper on every single food item in your work, if you don't explain to me where did potatoes come from in your fantasy setting or don't explain how the industry of coffee works over interstellar distances with full detail you are doing things wrong and I personally hate you and I hate your stupid story, fuck you
Why are your stupid little wizards and knights eating potato stew in your dumb European middle ages fantasy world. Where did they get potatoes from. Where is the center of domestication of potatoes, do you have a fantasy Andean civilization? What are the social and economic consequences of having such a calorie rich crop in cold climates. I don't care about "themes" or "enemies to lovers with found family", I didn't ask about that. Where does your idiot space captain gets their shitty coffee from. Is it imported from Earth? Are there coffee growing worlds? Is it an alien species replacement with the same name? What are the social consequences of that? Don't try to change the subject, I'll stop pointing the gun when I want, I'm trying to have a conversation here,
gold in them there tags
Sorry to commit the sin of being serious on a joke post instead of joining in on the bit but it is actually a good idea to get serious about, like, two or so food or fabric items per book. Reading a scifi novel where some characters on a space station are sipping orange juice in an Important Meeting provided by the host and it's revealed that it's real orange juice, shipped up from Earth, not the artificial stuff that gets manufactured in orbit, adds some real richness to the world and the personality of the orange juice provider and their dynamics with the person they're sharing orange juice with. Having your fantasy characters sip hot chocolate at a ball with a foreign diplomat and having the diplomat mention how lucky they are to have so much cocoa when it doesn't grow well in this climate, and they sure hope that their trade deals with the cocoa growing nation remain strong in spite of the threat of war with their neighbour and it potential to upset trade routes, in the diplomat's home country cocoa is almost impossible to find and they'll miss it so much when they leave, gives some real grounding to both the setting and its international relations as well as giving you a lot of things you can imply via said diplomat depending on their specific attitude. You only have to do it with a couple of things, it really goes a long way for establishing depth and trust in your worldbuilding.
Anyway rant over back to The Bit.
Iâve talked about The Potato Question a few times and I think this grossly mischaracterizes the essence of it. Yes some people latch onto it extremely literally but if you dismiss it out of hand you are not really engaging with the meat of it.
âWhere did the potatoes come from?â does NOT mean âGive me an exhaustive ethnobotanical history of your crops!â
Itâs a shorthand for asking if you are taking a western imperialist worldview for granted in your worldbuilding (and reacting with hostility when a hypothetical reader interrogates that). Are you buying into a particular cultural mythology of Ye Olde Fantasy Europe by having the norms and resources available to your setting be those of a white supremacist revisionist fantasy? Why does your society have the culture of an extractive colonial empire if they have no imperialist interests?
You donât have to engage with these sorts of questions but if you arenât willing to give them thought then it will show in your writing and a certain percentage of your readers will think you lack insight into the world you created.
I don't think being uninformed or lazy is a Western imperialist worldview. It's very, very easy for anachronisms to slip through the cracks while writing. It's naive maybe, certainly it's leaving potential on the table, as derin says. But it's not like. Complicit in atrocities. There's atrocities behind everything if you keep digging. History is not a nice place.
Are you buying into a particular cultural mythology of Ye Olde Fantasy Europe by having the norms and resources available to your setting be those of a white supremacist revisionist fantasy?
I don't think potatoes are a loadbearing pillar of white supremacist glorification of feudal Europe. There's not much glorious about potatoes.
Why does your society have the culture of an extractive colonial empire if they have no imperialist interests?
You don't need an extractive colonial empire to have potatoes just because in our world potatoes happened to be brought to Europe by an extractive colonial empire.
Did you not read what I said? Again: the potatoes are a shorthand. Thatâs my point. The potato question is not really about the potatoes or the anachronisms but about the assumptions about society they may betray.
I have read stories that go way out of their way to justify the presence of potatoes and yet do not actually manage to shake the Eurocentric cultural mythology at all. Because, again, the potato question isnât actually about ethnobotany.
No one really thinks there is interesting ethnobotanical history behind the presence of tomatoes and tobacco in the Shire. We can tell that we are supposed to take it for granted because the Shire is a quaint 19th century English countryside. And thatâs the issueâweâre also supposed to take it for granted that the Shire just kind of naturally acquired the wealth, class structure, resources, and culture of a pastoralist painting through the pluck and moxie of Hobbits acting on their own, without any kind of imperial history. We see this time and time again in fantasy and sci-fiâromanticized proxies of Western Europe presented as a naturally-occurring state sanitized of all the ick and exploitation that allowed them to exist.
It's very easy to defend a stupid point people make by substituting a less stupid point and then defending that instead. But okay, let's pretend this is about the less stupid version.
Firstly, I think it is very common to use far away or long ago places as backdrops and then just write about the relationship dynamics or psychological explorations or magic-as-allegory or whatever actually interests one. These stories will transplant modern ideas and dynamics backwards without much regard for accuracy, and I think this is mostly fine. These stories should not inform your understanding of the past, but you should not get your information about the past from fiction in the first place. Literary writers lie, it's their job.
Secondly, you are assuming certain cultural quirks can only come about the same way we have seen them come about in history. I think this is very narrow-minded. It's not like sociology is a solved science and we know how these things can and can't develop. If there is a dominant idea in your medieval story which would have been very foreign to actual medieval people, then this can be interesting to explore, how did that idea get hold in the first place? But a) a skilled writer will be able to pull that off, the idea doesn't have to come from where we know it came from in the real world, and b) a writer not exploring that at all is leaving potential on the table, yes, but they are not doing anything wrong. The story doesn't have to be about that.
And it doesn't mean the writer is endorsing or naturalising that idea. They may be shadowboxing against a bias which was invented by the Victorians and mistakenly doing it in a medieval setting. Maybe a bit embarassing, but not a grave ill. If they ARE actually endorsing and naturalising the idea, then you can criticise that directly, and you can do it on the merits of the idea, without making it about the anachronism or the missing context or whatever. It's not like the Shire would be less of a conservative's wet dream if there were in-universe explanations for everything.
Your issue is not the lack of an explanation, you want it to be an entirely different story. That's fine! I would also be interested in the alternate universe version of The Lord of the Rings where Tolkien was a committed anti-imperialist. But we are very far away from potatoes now, are we not? Really, it doesn't have anything to do with the potatoes at all. The potatoes are not a shorthand, they are a completely separate thing. Tolkien was in many ways a conservative, and that sucks because conservatism sucks and not for any other reason about historical context or whatever.
My point is that âwhere do the potatoes come from?â is a thought experiment in challenging what you take for granted in fantastical settings and why âromanticized and unproblematic Western Europeâ is considered a perfectly neutral basis upon which to base a fantasy society, to the point that even suggesting that this neutrality is worth interrogating is treated as this ludicrous nutjob imposition to be met with hostility, as you are demonstrating. Potatoes are merely a symbol of the unquestioning ease with which eurocentricism and white supremacy is normalized in the literary world. Whether the provenance of potatoes (or other symbol) is ever explicitly addressed in the worldbuilding is less the point than âdoes the text betray the authorâs biases and blindspots regarding western culture and seem way too comfortable ignoring the global south?â to which the answer is so often âyesâ.
So the potatoes are just a detour to a criticism which is not difficult to make directly, and then when people take the detour seriously they are missing the point?
I think you are being willfully obtuse and are either not willing or not capable of having a meaningful discussion about this.
I think the potatoes thing gets brought up a lot because literally white supremacist fans of things like the Witcher were freaking out over A Woman Of Color being cast in the tv show and crying "historical accuracy." And then people pointed out the video games have potatoes in them and how hypocritical they were being. Like I'm not the only one who remembers that right? It is in fact a thing racist fans ignore in a setting and then try and go "uhhhh black people can't exist in Medieval Fantasy Poland because historical accuracy!" Potatoes. Racism. It wasn't even that long ago I saw that being argued about.
It's also a critique I've seen in regency romance stuff where the authors and fans don't think about how that rakish Duke's family got wealthy (slavery) or how that merchant family got so rich lately (slavery) or where their sugar for afternoon teatime and flirting is coming from (slavery.) Things like drinking tea or using sugar or wearing English wool were highly politicized choices at different times of history and it says a lot about the characters. It is lazy if your fantasy world needs to pretend food and goods fall from the sky lest someone dare think about context like that. Sometimes it's lazy and racist.
I'm also getting frustrated as someone who has a degree in history and studied empires reading this at the implication that because it's just potatoes or food it's not actually important or political
Food is political
Food is highly political
Just because the author wasn't actively thinking about potatoes in their story as making certain implications/having imperialist implications doesn't mean it doesn't
Which is kind of the point
You need to engage with it and think about it both as just writing potential or how you are going to use it and what it implies about your world building. And as others have said potatoes are a stand in for a lot of little things that reveal biases you don't know you have or things you take for granted
And having people asking "but where do the potatoes come from" should get the readers thinking about that and asking questions. Not only about the authors biases but their own
Big fan of characters realizing they don't get to die. They have to live. And grow. And be a person. And deal with shit they thought they'd never have to. And be fucked up about it. I would like more of this. Enough dying for honor or as redemption. It ain't. You're just a corpse. There is no moral value in dirt time.
Skyrim Scenery 93/â
Ship development ask game đ
Ahhh, I know, these have been done 10 million times, but i noticed i was struggling to find ones specifically designed to help develop a ship. Which is what I use these for. So here's an ask game specifically designed to help you develop a new ship or get back in touch with an old ship.
Whilst this is an ask game, you dont have to treat it perfectly like one. Feel free to copy and paste these and fill them in on your notes app or take turns filling these in in dms with your friends. :)
What appeals you to the ship? Is it based off of canon interaction, personal headcanons, or are you not sure?
What are the character's usual types? Is it one another or are they taking a chance on smth new?
What do they like about one another? Include both physical and personality traits, anything they like.
In what areas would they help one another grow?
What type of dynamic do you see them having? Are they fluffy or steamy? Are they soulmates or doomed to fail?
Which character developed feelings first? And is there a specific moment or way this could've happened?
Which character confessed their feelings first? And how was it? What did they do? How were they feeling?
What was their first date like?
What are their love languages?
Do they have anything they dont like about one another? Any annoying habits or bad incidents in the past?
How would they deal with those things? Do they have open communication or do they just bottle it up?
What interests/hobbies would they have in common?
What interests/hobbies would they try and get the other into? Would they succeed or not?
What are their core values?
Would they adopt pets together? How many? What animal(s)? Did they disagree on the animal(s)?
What would they do to surprise one another?
Is there a couple from another piece of media you could use as a reference?
How fast do they each tend to move in relationships? Does one rush into things whilst the other takes their time? How would they find a compromise?
Do they have any fears or set backs in terms of relationships?
Leave the ship behind for a moment, what are some headcanons you have for them as individuals in relationships? Silly quirks, or any tendencies they need to quit? Are they selfish or a people-pleaser?
Would they get into fights? What over, and how do they move forward?
What would their friends and family think of their relationship? Are they supportive or not too keen?
Is marriage something thats in their future? Do they want to get married? Do they not want to get married? Do they break up before it happens?
Would they want to have kids at some point? Or do they already have them?
Try and think of either 3 silly or angsty headcanons for them as a couple? Depending on the dynamic of the ship, could be anything at all. If you cant think of 3, thats fine.
How would they celebrate things like birthdays, valentines day, anniversaries, etc..? Do they even celebrate them at all?
BONUS OPTIONAL QUESTIONS!
For steamy pairs, how compatible are they in the bed room?
For toxic pairs, would they ever break up? Why or why not?
For immortal pairs, have they known one another throughout history? Were they always able to be together?
For cross-species pairs, what are some ways their different species traits impact their relationship? What silly inconveniences or mishaps happen when a vampire & a werewolf date? Or a fairy and a mermaid? Etc..
For fictional celebrity pairs, what was the public's response to them dating? Were their fans happy?
I love shipping characters as exes, like yeah no they're not endgame, they could never be endgame, but they've absolutely fucked nasty and changed who each other are as people and at least one of them got their heart broken