I love being multiple. It gave me the opportunity to really have to work with myself and everything about me. I cannot run away from being multiple and all that comes with it, I cannot run away from me and my past anymore. I need to get to know everyone and how we work together to heal. While I became multiple due to others wanting me to end up like that I never was afraid of the others no matter what I would woke up to. I love them because they're parts that should have integrated into a whole me, they aren't less valid just because they developed into distinct personality states. they are traumatized, I am traumatized. But being multiple is really not the issue behind DID, it's the post traumatic symptoms that makes life hard. We aren't scared of healing anymore because we know we won't loose us, even if we end up fully integrating everyone that's fine because we will just be one whole person with everyone's quirks combined and fully accessible at all times.
I love butches! I love trans fem butches! I love trans masc butches! I love trans women butches! I love trans man butches! I love gender non conforming butches! I love butches on t! I love butches with xenogenders! I love disabled butches! I love mentally ill butches!
Have I said how much I love butches yet? Especially fellow lesboys? I love you guys!
- mental health server for individuals with stigmatized disorders (DID/OSDD, BIID, clinical lycanthropy, paraphilic disorders, personality disorders,...)
- anti psychiatry, we believe psychiatry can often be more harmful than good and is inherently bigoted. we are not against all therapy or medication, if you agree to the treatment and it helps you that is amazing.
- anti censorship, anti fake claiming. small grey list with common triggers.
- pro fiction channels, journals, a lot of reaction roles, a ticket locked ramcoa category and a bunch of resources.
- open to all plurals and singlets, all queer labels, alterhuman identities etc!
DNI: right wing ideologies, anti endos who aren't open to learning (we have resources), pro fake claiming, polyminds, radqueers, any exclusionary group (more in our blacklist).
Check out the . rotten . community on Discord – hang out with 79 other members and enjoy free voice and text chat.
Coming out of dormancy is confusing as hell. What do you mean we moved twice in that time? Glad to be back but the others deleted my profile again. When do they finally stop thinking we were faking when someone goes dormant?
me/cfs is so horrible. my quality of life keeps getting lower and lower even when I think it couldn't get any worse. pacing is so tedious and basically impossible to keep up continuously. I just want to feel a little normal sometimes.
Hello. I don't want to bring drama in here. I want to correct some misinformation. I wanted to join your server "system and sillies" and had a accessibility issue of writing down all rules. Your response to that (while the rest of the ticket was fully filled out) was: "Yes, ALL the rules. Accessible means it's easier to read. Seriously, you are a grown person complaining about typing." and banned me from your server, not even kicking just straight up banning.
I don't care about getting back in. I do however care about the "Accessible means it's easier to read." part. From the dictionary:
"3 suitable for disabled people to reach, enter or use, as a result of design modifications:
wheelchair-accessible vans
modified controller to make video games accessible"
Accessibility is way wider than just people with reduced eyesight. Screenreader can also make it harder to type (screenreader user here). People with high amnesia, high dissociation, brain fog, mecfs, brain injuries etc can also have problems explaining and typing out all rules in their own words.
If you don't want those people in your server that's fine but don't claim to be accessible then!
(This took me 1 day to think about how I will word it and 30 minutes to actually type out. Yes an adult can be severely disabled and in need of care.)
We have a version of the rules just for screen readers, so that argument is out the window. If you had read the reaction role message, you would have seen that.
You can literally look back at the rules whenever you want. You aren't magically blocked from looking at the rules while you're doing the application.
You were banned because it's standard practice for us to ban anyone who doesn't fill out the rules.
If typing is an issue for you, use voice to text or literally just message us anywhere explaining your issue and we can figure something out. Had you not made this such an issue, we wouldn't be in this situation.
And yes, we know adults can be disabled and need care. We are a disabled adult. You have no reason to be a condescending bitch.
You have read my message, answered but forgot to turn on just one braincell in the meantime. Going back and forth between channels is tedious and takes a lot of energy and attention. Reading the rules was also never a problem (I have seen and read the screenreader accessible one). Typing all of them out is the problem, one or two would be understandable but all is just insane.
Your response is showing that you are unable to reflect about your behavior and how your behavior can indeed affect people differently than you anticipated. "Had you not made it such an issue, we wouldn't be in this situation." is not reflection it's simply pushing the responsibility to the individual who asked for more accessibility. I was never rude when I made the verification, I was never rude when I sended you an ask and you just insult me at any given time.
Appropriately handled would have been you asking what would be more accessible to me but instead you banned me for complaining about the accessibility of one question.
And then you answer my ask without thinking about accessibility at all or even saying something about how you handled it. You cannot apologize or show any kind of reflection towards your behavior. The abelism in both your initial banning message and this post is insane.
There are disabled adults who can neither talk out loud, paraphrase long Textblocks or lists, hold up their attention for so long, stay non-dissociated for that long etc. Not even mentioning that you have to friend request someone on discord to text them and that also takes up more energy.
I have very severe mecfs which makes me bedbound and forces me to be in a dark, silent room all of the time. I haven't seen outside in 9 months so my only way of socializing are via Internet. So mostly discord servers and it is shocking how many of them react exactly like this when I bring up accessibility issues. This is again separating severely disabled people from communities.
Why dissociative parts aren't always CDD symptoms.
So, you may have heard of this bad boy. 😎
The Haunted Self, by Onno Van Der Hart.
(relevant quotes will be written in the main body text... alt text pending, I want this up ASAP)
Let's skip to the relevant bit...
(Fig. 1, above)
The above screenshot explains the mechanism of primary & secondary structural dissociation.
EP - emotional part
ANP - apparently normal part
"Structural dissociation can range from very simple to extremely complex divisions of the personality,
and these levels of complexity have implications for treatment"
"more complex forms of structural dissociation that involve wider ranges of dissociative parts ...
... are variations on primary structural dissociation of the personality."
"It is to be expected that the more complex structural dissociation becomes, the more there will be deviations¹ from these prototypes²"
Deviation - Diverging (becoming different) from an accepted idea, policy, or norm of behavior.
Prototype - A typical example of a class or category: i.e, the case studies & concepts above.
Primary structural dissociation is between a single ANP and single EP.
EP usually is quite limited in scope, function, and sense of self. That is, the part of the survivor that is EP remains unelaborated and not very autonomous in daily life.
The EP serves to compartmentalise traumatic experiences.
From this, I'll draw an allusion to a stairway; to get to the third step, you begin at step one.
For secondary structural dissociation,
in Fig. 1 above,
an example is given of a real patient:
"diagnosis of complex PTSD and borderline personality disorder...
One part of her personality (EP) tended to become enraged...
...a fifth (ANP) functioned quite well..."
We are told Martha was known to have five parts.
Why?
Secondary structural dissociation.
"When traumatizing events are increasingly overwhelming or prolonged, further division of EP may occur, while a single ANP remains intact."
"This secondary structural dissociation may be based on the failed integration among various kinds of defense
that have different psychobiological* configurations
including different combinations of affects¹, cognitions², perceptions³, and motor actions⁴.
These involve conditions such as freeze, fight, flight, and total submission."
* Psychobiology is the branch of psychology that interprets psychological phenomena in terms of adaptation to biological, environmental etc. factors... ...studies the biological foundations of behavior, emotions, and mental processes.
Affect: in psychology, the underlying experience of feeling, emotion, attachment, or mood.
Cognitions: mental processes such as attention, language use, memory, perception, problem solving, creativity, and reasoning.
Perception: the way sensory information is organized, interpreted, and consciously experienced. Perception involves both bottom-up and top-down processing.
After BPD illustrates parts,
we find where CDDs (e.g, DID) fit in.
(Fig. 2)
"This tertiary structural dissociation occurs when inescapable aspects of daily life have become associated with past trauma;"
"Alternately, when the functioning of ANP is so poor that normal life itself is overwhelming, new ANPs may develop."
I have a helpful flow chart which visualises Fig. 2 (tertiary structural dissociation)...
(Fig. 3)
Fig. 2 quotes:
"Finally, division of ANP may occur, in addition to divisions of EP."
"In severe cases of secondary and in all cases of tertiary dissociation, more than a single part may have a strong degree of elaboration (e.g, names, ages, genders, preferences) and emancipation (Janet's [1907] term that denotes actual or perceived separation and autonomy from the influence of other dissociative parts."
When we stepped up to the tertiary (third) tier, the ANP underwent divisions. This was due to overwhelm and presence of trauma triggers in daily life.
"allowing development of parts who provide needed resources for the challenges of normal life".
From Fig 1 (Martha) and Fig 3 (flowchart):
(EP) froze in terror // Freeze part
(EP) tended to become enraged at the smallest perceived slight // Fight part
We were told to expect that more complex structural dissociation would be variations on primary, which is why similarities can be drawn like so.
From here, parts / alters / dissociative identities in a tertiary structural dissociation system:
And, on this elaboration:
"This is not commonly observed in primary structural dissociation, nor in many cases of secondary structural dissociation."
This is why Martha's parts were described using observable behaviours & tendencies.
Recap / TLDR:
Primary structural dissociation:
More often associated with PTSD, or potentially other trauma-related disorders, generally involving one Emotional Part.
The single EP is 'unelaborated' and has little autonomy.
All of this is to shield the Apparently Normal Part from traumas which overwhelmed them!
Secondary structural dissociation:
Further division of the EP occurs.
May be accompanied by some "different psychobiological configurations", including "affects".
As well as different cognition (perspective).
A patient with BPD was the example for this.
Tertiary structural dissociation:
"may have a strong degree of elaboration (e.g., names, ages, genders, preferences)"
Shit really hits the fan!! We need more ANPs just to keep it running. Much more division. A term from 1907 by Controversial Guy Janet, "emancipation":
"actual or perceived separation and autonomy from the influence of other dissociated parts"
(you don't need to use Janet's term to recognise the concept! But it's wild to imagine people in 1907 knew about this!!)
Lmao scrolling on Tumblr really not expecting to see the disboard tags of my server pop up. This is hilarious and all of the reposts are too.
For context my server "Rotten" is for plurals of all kind (heavily on including mixed origins) and for people with stigmatized disorders.
I hate how anti endos see something they don't understand and immediately go onto talking about it. My server is based on people with disorders, no matter how stigmatized their experience may be. Yes it's pro Endo because while endogenic systems might not be caused by trauma they still can have disorders and deserve a safe space to talk about them. Also cdd systems can often be mixed origins too especially ramcoa survivors because they often willingly rebuild a part of their innerworld or make alters/parts for specific tasks they struggle with. Now I won't go onto the sysmed aspect of this post because I simply don't care if you choose to dismiss well documented cultural, spiritual, metaphysical or psychological experiences. (I have a bunch of resources and for the medical people: the theory of structural dissociation, you all hype so much, also talks on endogenic plurals and their experiences, as well as the ICD 11 mentions them).
Now why ramcoa and endogenic community? We have a ramcoa category that's locked with the ramcoa role (or without for more privacy) for people who are survivors. Not every ramcoa survivor is a system so we also allow singlets in there. From our personal experience and reading those of others, many ramcoa survivors also have mixed origins due to recreating part of their innerworld or making alters to fit their needs and not the needs of their abusers. Not forgetting about cultural plurals who are survivors aswell.
We are strictly against trans ramcoa/harmed/programmed people and the radqueer community aswell as people making up other terms like polymind to explain a normal human experience that's used for internal family system therapy. We do not agree with endangering survivors which is why the category is survivor only and you can choose to not have the role show up on your profile.
Hello, In a post you made in the syscourse tag you said there were different types of subsystems, Would you mind either providing links or describing them!
Hello my bad for taking some hours to answer. My mecfs is acting up ones again. But I still wanted to take the time to explain the 4 types of subsystems I have found and which I often use to describe my subsystems.
As far as I'm aware medically there is the talk about 2 types which are system within a system or alter with his own alters. But I will talk on the 4 types which I believe are community coined. I sadly couldn't find the person who made them originally.
Look at the alt text if you cannot read the text in the pictures ^^. But I will also try to explain them in more detail. Feel free to add your experience with those types in the comments if I get something wrong or if you just want to share.
Read more under the cut
Subsystem 1: system within a system
I believe this one is talked about pretty often. In the picture it is showing a group of alters connected and the other main system parts just floating free. I cannot talk about that specific case because it looks a little different to us because of the size of our system.
Subsystem 2: innerworld subsystem
A subsystem residing in a specific space in the innerworld. Mostly only alters of that subsystem are able to access this place. This is the majority of our subsystems they have their own houses or apartment complexes and can sometimes invite others but will mostly just visit others in more publicly accessible spaces in the innerworld. They don't necessarily front together or are similar in their identities. For us they do often share a source/origin (not from the same alter but similar cause) of some kind which their area in the innerworld is based on.
Subsystem 3: split subsystem
A subsystem that is created off of one specific alters splits. When the alter splits many at ones or also many over time they can form a subsystem and be connected due to that. For us that usually is when one of our alters kind of dies and splits into many different fragments those tend to stick together and hold different attributes of the alter before the split.
Subsystem 4: similarities subsystem
A subsystem that is out of alters that have some kind of similarities like for example similar names, ages, likes, dislikes or roles etc. We personally only have this happen for role groups. They don't tend to stick together much in the innerworld but are still connected because they all manage our sleep and dreams.
how do you claim that a book written by a conspiracy theorist is still a reliable source of information and advice for survivors? how is that safe or helpful? that’s really concerning.
I see how that's concerning to you. But you also have to remember that resources on DID and disordered systems are generally really slim. Resources on ramcoa on the other hand are even worse and then trying to find deprogramming books to help survivors heal is even worse. I found 2 resources on deprogramming in over a year of searching resources. Most of those are from the satanic ritual abuse time which yes is full with conspiracy theorist.
Modern psychology is heavily influenced by Sigmund Freud but modern psychology is still helpful. So even if this book is written by a conspiracy theorist it's one of the only resources we have to heal from such highly complex trauma and especially in medical and psychological context we cannot always look after who the writers were because it's all influencing each other.
It's a book written for survivors so it's generally safe to read and many programmed systems had good recoveries with guidance from this book.
Content Warning: mentioning of organized abuse, programming, system discourse.
I hate the misinformation and silencing around ramcoa survivors especially those who have been programmed to be a system. This will be a long yap be prepared.
Topics: hc DID, sidesystems
Let me first start of with the misinformation around the term hc DID (highly complex Dissociative Identity Disorder).
Highly complex DID doesn't mean they have more or worse trauma it means they have a highly complex system structure, hierarchys and innerworld due to it being created through programming so to serve someone else and not to protect the brain. These systems often have polyfragmentation, sidesystems who are completely separate from other subsystems containing programmed parts and a highly complex hierarchical structure often far more than 3 ranks.
This term gets treated like a community term which it isn't in reality. The term got coined by medical professionals to describe their patient. This patient Maymay published the term on social media which then made everyone assume they (unsure about pronouns) were the coiner. Maymay is a problematic system of the Internet and because of that people have been accusing people who use the term to be equally as problematic as them. Which to me is just another way to silence us again. This also isn't the first time that programmed systems get called highly complex. In the book "Becoming yourself" by Allison Miller from the year 2014 she already describes them as such in the introduction of the book. (Disclaimer that Miller is a conspiracy theorist but the book is a good book for survivors to read)
Continuing with sidesystems. I've seen many people say that it doesn't make sense it's programmed exclusive. Most non programmed systems I see using sidesystems use it in a way of subsystems that are separate. And to that I just advice you to look into the 4 types of subsystems (or shoot me an ask and I will see to explain them in a post). Subsystems can present in many different ways. But sidesystems are separate from that.
Sidesystems are systems within one body that are programmed to be completely separated from the other subsystem and sidesystems. Most often Sidesystems are completely unaware of the existence of other Sidesystems this is due to how they were made. They have extreme amnesia barriers to ensure that programmed information or information about the abuse doesn't get to the outside. Sidesystems are made and contain only programmed parts.
Sidesystems aren't just separate subsystems they have major differences in structure and amnesia/dissociative barriers. You can be a non programmed system and experience subsystems with heavy amnesia between them who are contained to one part of the innerworld and are separate. But you cannot experience Sidesystems who are made by torture based mind control.
Why do we feel the need to kick down to survivors who already are at their lowest? Can we please start listening and stop talking over other experiences?
Me: Struggling to find apps that can manage all my information as a disabled plural. Struggling to keep up with 4 different apps and still not having everything covered.
