I liked it.
It is a solid, enjoyable Star Wars movie that brings back our beloved TFA characters.
It is not without issues, but it is still top tier Star Wars movie imo.
The more I think about it the more I got angry at the pointless, sexist, hollow, racist, unoriginal mess that is TLJ. Yes, TROS has pace issues, but considering all the things that they had to recover and develop from Episode 8, I think they did a very good job.
JJ should had made the whole trilogy and it would had been great.
It has been two months since The Last Jedi came out and I still feel no desire to post anything related to SW. I hate to say this, but the movie drained my passion for the series.
Just to be clear, I have been a Rey Nobody fan since day one.
The Force Awakens and Rogue One relighted my love for the franchising. For two years I couldn’t stop talking about Star Wars. I red the new novels, comics, visual dictionaries. I listened and red b-t-s, interviews, analysis, podcasts.
I bought the merchandising and played the card game. Star Wars seemed to be in good hands and Disney proved to be in control of its investment.
Then TLJ came and I was left speechless by the lack of cohesion with the previous canon. What happened? Why did LucasArts allow Rian Johnson
so much freedom to the point of writing a script that contradict previous established characterizations, goals, timelines and world-building? What was even the point to have a Story Group? LucasArts and whoever worked with them gave all the same POV on the making of the movies. Rian, by contrast, keep giving an opposite version. What the fuck is happening? Who is lying?
The joy of commenting, reblogging, following secondary projects, enjoying the bts, etc...is to get a better idea of what is happening in the movies and who the characters are. Now I can’t post or read anything without thinking: “what is even the point anymore? They may change things randomly anyway”. I was left with no desire to analyse and research. What is even worse is that I was left with no desire to see Episode IX.
I felt let down as a fan.
I felt played.
As I also felt played by the script of TLJ.
There are some very beautiful and cool scenes, but overall it is didactic, overcrowded, rushed and at times stupid. I have already explained some issues in this post. It feels more like a draft than a final script. I couldn’t immerse myself in the story, because I kept seeing in front of me a list of plot-points that were progressively checked to get the to nth “cool moment”. With the exception of Kylo, who has the best arc, the characters are there just to let the story goes where Rian wants. Mark Hamill expressed the same issue:
“[...] Rian needed me to be a certain way to make the ending effective. That’s the crux of my problem: Luke would never say that. [...] He’s not my Luke Skywalker, but I had to do what Rian wanted me to do because it serves the story well”.
The characters in this movie are not the same characters I liked so much in TFA, despite it been set right after it.
Where is Rey? How could she behave like that? Why does she looks like that? but most importantly, why she is not the protagonist anymore? TLJ!Rey? I do not know her. I am too disappointed to even write down anything more.
Poe’s and Finn’s arcs were a mess as well.
I got the feeling that Rian doesn’t really care about Finn when he said that weird “joke” during Star Wars Celebration, but now it is obvious. Finn is a secondary character. He seems in the story only because he “has to be” in the story, but beside providing an useful intel about the FO, he spends the movie passively tagging along. Yeah, he has a “character moment” (the face-off with Phasma), but it is so short that is ridiculous and lacks any pathos, unlike the fight he had against FN-2199 in TFA.
I get Finn needs to have a reason to stay with the Resistance, but he could had had an arc that does not treat him as someone who needs others to didactically explain things to him as he were a kid. One thing that really bothers me is that, while TFA makes the audience laugh with Finn or at what he is going through, TLJ makes the audience laugh AT him. I especially despise how his injuries are only there to serve as a comic relief. I have already said how disappointed I was of Rose’s out-of-the-blue kiss, but re-watching TLJ, even her’s final words (”That's how we're going to win. Not fighting what we hate, but saving what we love”) sounds off. At the very beginning of the movie Finn was doing exactly that: not fighting what he hates (the FO), but saving the one he loves (Rey) by bringing the beacon away from a doomed fleet.
Even more striking was the lack of interest from Rian to make Finn react to the the slave children in Canto Bright, despite the fact that Finn is an ex-slave child himself...but...like...who cares?
Poe. Poe was...I don’t know where to begin and I will offer links to others people’s posts to keep it short [ x x x x x x ]. The Poe of the previous canon didn’t need to learn “his lesson”. The Star Wars universe didn’t need sexism (one of the great thing about Star Wars was that its galaxy didn’t have a sexism problem)(or, if we want to split hairs, it was an issue relegated to “retrograde” Outer Rim worlds).
As the granddaughter of a military commander and a partisan who fought against real fascists, I felt played by the Holdo/Poe plot. It is stupid and forced just for the sake of create a conflict. Based on real life war stories I have heard since childhood, Poe’s mutiny is comprehensible, not the total misstep Rian portraits it to be.
Also, regarding Holdo, she didn’t need to die, not when the Resistance has droids. Set coordinates and press a lever is a simple task, there is no real reason for Holdo to do it herself. I hated to see her killed off right after her role (prompt up the male lead) was completed, especially considering how rare queer older female character in a leading role are. It was similar to what happened to Rose: she deliver her last “lesson” to her male character and then she is out of the picture. WTF?
As a woman I felt mocked by Rian’s reason for Poe to despise Holdo. It is so stupid. What does “real feminine energy” even mean? What fuck up idea does he have about gender? Moreover, when I red that Rian wanted Holdo to wear an unpractical, out-of-place, floor length dress, without any belts or pockets, just to make her look “feminine”, I couldn’t not think of the times I and my girlfriends have been forced to dress and behave “feminine” just to be taken seriously or keep a job. Our personalities, tastes, comfort, health, they were all dismissed, because what was more important was to appear feminine. Like...fuck it!
I didn’t need Holdo to wear an uniform (especially when in Star Wars uniforms are not mandatory for military leaders), but I would had wanted, at least, something that makes sense on a military starship under attack: a practical outfit with space to keep a com-link and a blaster. Instead I get the usual “gender over logic” rhetoric when it comes to female outfits.Â
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Hiring David Benioff and D.B. Weiss was the last straw.
I lost any trust in LucasArts and any upcoming projects.
Maybe Ep. IX will make me come back, who knows? but until then, I am out.
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING US DISNEY??
Are you saying that all your good talks about being inclusive, progressive, etc. were all a façade?
These racists, misogynists pricks are the reason why I stopped watching GoT.
Their behavior on set and their shitty excuses for some of the awfulness in the show were unbelievable. I don’t like to lose my calm, and usually when I don’t fancy a project I just don’t talk about it (see the Han Solo and Boba Fett movies), but this is a terrible choice.
JJ, for example, was called out for sexism too, but his sexism seemed to rise from a simple lack of understanding and “this is how things as always been” mind-set. The news he was going to work on the ST bothered me, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt. It turned out I did the right thing and TFA was a big proof of his willingness to listen and add different prospective.
D&D? I do not believe for one second that they are going to bring anything decent on the table. They are simply misogynists. Don’t let me start with their vision of sex and “strong female characters”.
Luke Skywalker and His Role as a Sophoclean Tragic Hero
               In JJ Abram’s and Rian Johnson’s take of the familiar Star Wars universe, we are introduced to an aging Luke Sywalker not as an infallible morally superior hero, but as a flawed and emotionally wounded man. Luke, having played a major role in the toppling of the Galactic Empire thirty years prior, has cloaked himself in a mysterious retreat, away from the new galactic conflict between the First Order and the New Republic. He is not the same Luke Skywalker the audience saw during the Galactic Civil War: steadfast, bright eyed, and unwavering in certainty. Instead, we are presented with a Luke Skywalker that is cautious, wary, and wracked with guilt. This character progression is not new to mythology. In fact, Johnson has used one of the oldest forms of storytelling, stemming from Athenian theater: the Sophoclean tragedy.
“Sophocles essentially wrote about what happens when warriors do not die in battle, have no more wars to fight, and what it means for them to return home and live among society.”
Building an empire: Exploring the architecture of 'Star Wars'
From the beginning, George and production illustrator Ralph McQuarrie really grounded the world of 'Star Wars' in an Earth-bound reality," explains Phil Szostak, creative art manager at Lucasfilm. "They give you just enough mnemonic for you to go: 'Oh, I recognize that,'Â " says David Reat, director of postgraduate studies in architecture at the University of Strathclyde. Providing an uncanny familiarity is "what Star Wars does better than any other film series." [...] A foundation stone for this analogue is architecture. "Episodes I, II, and III were grounded in the (designs of the) '20s and '30s ... episodes IV, V, and VI were grounded in the heavy manufacturing of the '70s and '80s," Lucasfilm executive creative director Doug Chiang has said. The current sequels, he adds, reflect our times.
The royal palace of Theed, the capital of Naboo, utilizes a combination of Byzantine exteriors and Baroque/Rococo interiors, informed by the naturalistic style of American architect Frank Lloyd Wright.
The city of Otoh Gunga was one of the most sophisticated in the galaxy. The intricate metalwork echoes Art Nouveau, a school of architecture emphasizing natural forms.
The city planet Coruscant was inspired by Trantor, a planet from the "Foundation" series of sci-fi novels by Isaac Asimov, written in the 1940s.
The Republic Executive Building building, a beehive of spacecraft coming and going, is topped with a dome that harks back to Oscar Niemeyer's domed senate chamber in Brasilia.
The Senate's Grand Convocation Chamber [...] appears similar to Jeremy Bentham's panopticon, an 18th century prison design providing an omniscient position for the chancellor.
Adam Driver discusses why Ben Solo/Kylo Ren idolized Darth Vader and the differences between the two characters.
“I know there’s something about looking around where you are and not identifying with the things around you, you know.Â
The people that are supposed to be in charge of you or telling you about life are not there and suddenly you identify with someone who, at that point in your life, is a legend and is part of your genetics.
If you see more crossover with them you start to almost kind of romanticize them in your mind.”
aka: “what I would had liked to see in TLJ”.
Why don’t have Rey ask Ben what is the reason behind Luke fear of the cave (aka the Dark Side)? why don’t have Ben explaining how Luke couldn’t accept the Dark Side as a part of the things you have to learn when study the Force? why don’t use this moment to have Kylo explaining why he look up at Vader aka the only model in the Dark Side he had? and what did Darth Vader start?
There is a problem if we come to know more interesting sides of the characters from the interviews than the movie itself. Damn, TLJ has been out for a week and I have already red better fanfictions.
I have a lot of feelings about whether what Han and Rey offered Kylo were in any way a feasible offer of “redemption” because I see it as a concept that other people cannot offer. They can offer forgiveness but that is something that can be offered whether the person is regretful or not (I am not saying it should be just that it can be.) And I don’t think Rey or Han saw the bigger picture of what exactly that means for Kylo Ren. Is there a home for him to go to? Is there anyone in the galaxy but Rey and his mother who would accept his return? What did Kylo’s vision of ruling with Rey even entail?
This is someone who has never had a purpose other than what others have chosen for him, and he already gave up everything for someone who made his life infinitely worse. Is it any wonder he chose to cling to something familiar where he might have some semblance of control of his life for once rather than give up everything once again?
I’m just asking questions myself here because I have no idea how this can be resolved and maybe I’m just a dumbass for being optimistic but it sure makes everything seem a little less bleak.
Yes, this exactly. I keep shouting into the void of tumblr that redemption can never come from another person. It has to be something the person who needs it does for themselves. This was one of the primary themes of TLJ - people can only change themselves and can only save themselves. Yes, others are free to forgive Kylo or not forgive him (because forgiveness is entirely on the other person), but that has nothing to do with whether or not he’ll find redemption.
FYI, I’ll be posting all my TLJ reactions under a cut and won’t reblog spoilery gifs or anything for at least a week or two. (And of course I’ll tag them when I do.)
Uh, I’m a Kylo stan so expect a Kylo-heavy review…
this is the TLJ piece I would had liked to have written, if only my English writing skills were better.
(spoilers ahead)
“The anticlimactic “reveal” (if Kylo wasn’t lying) that Rey’s parents were nobodies worked okay but felt a little misplaced since Rey didn’t care in TFA who here parents were, just where they’d gone and when/if they were coming back. She didn’t expect them to be bigshots like the rest of the world did. The more important part of Kylo’s revelation was that they’d just heartlessly abandoned her, but the weird scene with the mirror implied that she cared about their identities, not just how she could reunite with them. The movie really did hammer on the question of Rey’s lineage in a way I’d expected them to avoid. They did it in order to set up that anticlimax, obviously, but it still felt like an odd left turn. It occurs to me that Kylo and Rey may have interpreted their conversation differently - Kylo means to emphasize the “they’re nobodies” part, but Rey hears the “they didn’t love you” part. But if that’s what was happening, it was super unclear, at least to me. “
This passage highlights one of the things I didn’t appreciate about Rian’s script. (also it gives the best answer to the “Kylo nags Rey” discourse)
At times is too “meta”, in lack of better words.
In this case, he needed to address Rey’s parentage and he did so not by being coherent with what happened in-canon, but with what fans were expecting.
Many are pointing out that Kylo’s offer also recalls Mr.Darcy’s first proposal to Elizabeth in “Pride&Prejudice”. If the reference is intentional, the script, again, went in detriment of the continuity.
I would add that in “Rey's Survival Guide”, Rey didn’t even really think about her parents. Instead she hopes “her people” will come back to rescue her.
Leia is another example. I was waiting to see Leia using the Force all my life, but her scene left me underwhelmed. I get the reference (” I want it reported that I drowned in moonlight [...]”), but it didn’t felt organic with the plot. It felt forced.
Poe’s characterization was also bent to what the plot needed.
Poe cares about other people safety: we see it both in TFA and in the comic. This is especially true towards the Black Squadron. He was even ready to sacrifice himself in order to keep them alive. So why change it?
It is, maybe, because Rian needed a story where a reckless, impulsive man doesn’t trust his superior officer, fail miserably, and learn from his mistakes?
all right, but why do it at the expanse of previous characterization (especially when there isn’t even a time jump that could justify such a change)? Again, it felt forced into the plot.
“Rey’s temptation by the dark side was minimal [...] but that didn’t seem like much of a temptation to me“.
I was expecting something more too, especially considering the marketing of the movie. I wonder if this picture of Rey from the bts is indicative of a bigger temptation scene that has being cut.
Kylo arriving on ahch-to. I thought for sure he would literally be there. Adam went with Daisy and Mark to Ireland for a week or two while they were filming. Shooting near the waterfalls there too. Also those photos of what looked like the Knights of Ren and a downed ship.
same!
what happened to those MSW leaks? they are usually quite accurate.
Did those scenes get cut during editing? Johnson said that the initial cut was over 3 hours long and that he had to remove two sequences.
[minor TLJ spoiler ahead]
I get that Adam had to shoot the force bond scenes with Daisy, but is it possible that they need so much time to do them?
also what about the Rey we saw in the bts?
for anyone who is wondering, this is the link to the TLJ leak.
@rishi-maze God, that is precisely what unsettled me most! Where did the whole thing on Ahch-too/ Kylo ren go? What happened to the Knights of Ren? I was almost sure that Kylo was the one to burn that tree down…It was so unsettling coz it was MSW that had leaked it, so I was fully expecting it…!!!
There are SO many thing that are not in the movie. Those deleted scenes are going to be amazing.Â
(minor TLJ spoilers ahead)
I got the feeling Rian cut the Ahch-To part the most. The plot around Luke, Rey and Kylo seems to miss some scenes imo. I would like to see more force bond scenes and maybe Luke or Kylo talking about the time when the latter was his apprentice.
Yesterday a girlfriend complained that Rey didn’t have enough training scenes related to the Force, to the point that she didn’t expect Rey to be able to lift the rocks on Crait. As a longtime SW fan I wasn’t surprised, but I get what she meant. The movie could had benefited of one scene where Rey tries to use the Force. Which reminds me that the scene in the trailer where Rey run with anger and determination was cut too.
Rey in the screencap above is the deleted scene that intrigue me the most.
Is she suppose to be on the dark side? is Luke having a vision of what Rey could become, alike the one he had of Ben? or is just Rey in the cave, experiencing her fear to fall to the dark side as Ben?
Kylo arriving on ahch-to. I thought for sure he would literally be there. Adam went with Daisy and Mark to Ireland for a week or two while they were filming. Shooting near the waterfalls there too. Also those photos of what looked like the Knights of Ren and a downed ship.
same!
what happened to those MSW leaks? they are usually quite accurate.
Did those scenes get cut during editing? Johnson said that the initial cut was over 3 hours long and that he had to remove two sequences.
[minor TLJ spoiler ahead]
I get that Adam had to shoot the force bond scenes with Daisy, but is it possible that they need so much time to do them?
also what about the Rey we saw in the bts?
for anyone who is wondering, this is the link to the TLJ leak.
