#adrigami salt

[indigomarina]

I'm not sure if this is a hot take but

Chat Noir should've gotten a second love interest, not Adrien.

Like I know Kagami IS a foil to Ladybug, so she does serve a function like Luka does with Marinette. I get that part.

But why I mainly think is...well...:

Luka acts like the perfect partner and is essentially Marinette's free therapist. Someone she can rely on, when things get tough.

ADRIEN DOESN'T HAVE ANYONE LIKE THAT! And no Marinette herself doesn't count! Either his support is taken away or they lean on Marinette/Ladybug instead.

And I feel sorry for Kagami and acknowledge that Adrien wasn't the best in the relationship either, but Kagami isn't the perfect girlfriend for Adrien.

Yes they could relate to things and she had points, but compared to Luka, she only cared about the Adrien parts, not the Chat parts.

Also I know with Adrien's obliviousness, he might need a more blunter partner, but at the same time, BOUNDERIES! While not as bad as Marinette, Kagami could be pushy at times.

I guess I just wanted Chat to have someone in his corner for him to talk too and lean on when things get tough. Because neither Kagami or Marinette are it.

[iwasbored777]

I like how only NOW people are comparing Adrien with Marinette to Adrien with Kagami realizing Adrigami was a mess and Adrien was never comfortable nor fully happy in that relationship and it was only his part-time replacement for his unsuccessful attempt to seduce Ladybug while he sees Marinette as a special person in his life and someone important to him. Also she is treating him way differently than Kagami does, I think he's only noticing that now after he had one bad relationship what he could have had instead.

[emberwritesinsight]

Concept: Adrien and Marinette dating in the Chat Blanc style- one sided reveal and all that. And Kagami knows about it. And she's happy for them, really. Well, okay, she's a bit jealous. And concerned that the same issues that ended her and Adrien's relationship will lead to heartbreak for Marinette. But as long as they're both happy, she'll try to be happy for them.

AND THEN.

She finds out Adrien is Chat Noir.

Now, mind you, Chat is a chronic flirt (read: habitual harasser). He hasn't really STOPPED flirting with Ladybug, even though they're already in a relationship. If anything, he finds it funnier that her protests of "I have a boyfriend" are effectively pointless- oh Bugaboo, if only you knew.

Now, if Kagami knew Marinette is Ladybug, she'd assume there was a mutual reveal and the "I have a boyfriend" thing is some sort of inside joke. But she doesn't know that. So to her, it looks like Adrien is basically cheating on Marinette with someone who ISN'T EVEN INTERESTED IN HIM.

(It takes a while and some math, but she eventually figures out that he did exactly the same thing to HER, which makes her even angrier.)

So in Kagami's eyes, her ex boyfriend- more importantly her friends' CURRENT boyfriend, is a two-timing bastard (and mind you, she isn't really wrong). And the only way she could explain that to said friend is to reveal the identity of one of Paris's heroes, which would be a massive security risk- there's a REASON civilians aren't allowed to know this stuff.

So this is a dilemma. What's a girl to do?

Oh hey, just realized this could be a writing prompt. @mlwritingprompts , how do you do? Or maybe it's more of an @adriensaltprompts thing.

[coralcatsea]

A lot of people have become disillusioned with the main Miraculous ship and instead think that Kagami would be better for Adrien, but I'm not so sure. Kagami isn't really that great for him either. In one episode, she yells at him when he does a funny pose and says that's not him – why would he do that at all, then? It's not going to impress anyone the way his perfect persona would, so what other reason does he have to do it than simply wanting to?

In Risk, she starts yelling at him really harshly over the phone for not standing up to his father. I don't know if she was under the risk influence or not, but I don't think that would excuse it either way. I get her concern, but she just came at him out of nowhere simply because he looked a little sad. If your friend is sad, why would you start screaming at them for it?? She didn't even have a reasonable conversation with him about it first in the episode.

It's a shame because I think she has potential to be one of the better characters, and I like her assertiveness, but her anger that seems to come out of nowhere ruins it. She's weirdly written (though so is everyone else in the show).

I also just don't think Adrien really even has feelings for her. To me the relationship just came off like she was being really pushy and convinced him that he should date her when he wasn't sure. Obviously he's at fault for that too and shouldn't have given in, as it only led to him not paying attention to her in the relationship.

Anyway Adrien x therapy is the best Adrien ship right now.

As for Marinette...she should probably take some therapy, too. Luka's fine, but he deserves better than to be Marinette's backup plan.

Luka and Kagami would probably work decently together. Luka isn't as a timid as Adrien and would probably mellow Kagami out some, and he'd be more likely to do what he feels is right instead of letting other people push him around.

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Luka//nette and Adri//gami: How to write good people in an unhealthy relationship without making it toxic

You know I think we should give more credit to these ships. While I still find that they were unnecessary to an extent, I do think there is some good in them.

I think that in many circumstances we have seen this type of relationship before.

Where Person A of the relationship is being proactive, planning all the dates, working to try and grow closer, sharing their personal feelings and vulnerabilities, and even being forgiving when the person has to leave for unexplained reasons. While person b is trying to make the relationship work too but something is holding them back. (albeit Real life or Emotional hang ups)

Now in these cases one could argue Person A (Luka and Kagami) should have been more aware of person B's hangups (Marinette and Adrien) or Argue that Person B, should have made more of a proactive effort to make the relationship work. When it comes to romantic relationships, trust and communication are key. Marinette and Adrien were in situations where they couldn't tell their boy/girlfriend about why they flake. But whats really interesting about this is, while their secret was the reason why they broke up. It is only one of several reason why the relationships would not have lasted.

Lets cut away ALL of the having to turn hero to save the day. No Ladybug and Chat noir. Let us just have Adrien and Marinette be in the relationship with Kagami and Luka.

We as the audience have seen Adrien AND Marinette act when they are in love. Marinette never forgets dates or events. Marinette remembered Adrien's 5th names day, something not even his father remembered. Adrien went out of his way to prepare a romantic picnic on a balcony with candles for the girl he was in love with. The two went out of their way to do something for the people they were in love with.

But lets look at how Adrien and Marinette reacted in their relationships. Adrien was typically on the receiving end, not even comprehending that Kagami was the one that was lying to both their parents to spend time together. As for Marinette, she does give Luka a gift on their date, but we find out she missed the movie date they initially planned, so this could be seen as a gift to make up for it. Whether intentional or not, the dynamic of Marinette and Adrien are reactive not proactive. Relationships without the balance of Both people being proactive and trying to make it work are doomed to fail. One side can't be constantly compromising or being the one putting effort. (I have been in this relationship)

Now lets look at an episode where we see Adrien and Marinette in a relationship. Chat blanc.

Marinette made adrien a gift, Adrien sees it, figures out her feelings and RUNS OUT to immediately confess to her. Adrien taking Marinette to events, getting ice cream, meeting each other in front of the school, even in those brief snippets we see Adrien and Marinette going out of their way to be with each other. (of course this relationship also shows WHY hiding something is dangerous depending on what it is. But the point is still relevant)

This is not to say that Marinette and Adrien do not like Kagami and Luka, I think they do, but the feelings are not close to the ones that they had for one another and are not equal to the people they were in the relationship with.

And people could argue, 'Oh they will learn to love them' or 'Once they are over their other crush then it will be easy'. That isn't how it works.

I think the ships (while cut short) do make a great example for teens to see how relationships can be unhealthy while not being abusive or toxic. How sometimes good people in a relationship don't always mesh well despite wanting to. Sometimes people just don't click and thats fine.

And for those that do love Luka//nette and Adri//gami, that is completely fine. And hey, fanfics exist for a reason. You are even free to disagree, that is reasonable. But Truth and Lies are episodes that have relatively good portrayals of relationships with good people that just didn't work out. And I think that is very important to show.

[miraculermarinette]

Do you support any Adrien ship? What about Lukadrien or Adrigami?

To be honest with you anon, I don't. I am not saying he does not deserve any love but I just don’t ship him with anyone. Though, if I had to choose someone, I would choose Zoe because  I dislike Adrien and Zoe is just meh to me. I don’t hate her but I don’t care much about her either. So, I am not much interested in their ship dynamic and don’t actually ship it with my whole heart like I do with Lukanette, it is just an option I would choose if I had to. 

About Adrigami and Lukadrien, Kagami and Luka are my third and second favourite characters respectively and Adrien is one of my least favourites, so I don’t ship any of those ships. I disliked Adrigami since the start because it didn’t seem much appealing to me, and it just didn’t seem to have much chemistry (just my opinion). Adrigami was very one- sided and didn’t seem right for Kagami. 

As for Lukadrien, I also never liked the ship because of the lack of interaction between the characters. They seemed more like  acquaintances to me rather than friends. When they actually started to interact , I already had started disliking Adrien. Then,  Lukadrien is a ship which is largely used by the fandom just to spite and  express their hate on Marinette. This makes me more disinterested in the ship. And I am a firm Lukanette shipper.

[These are just my opinions.]

[zoe-oneesama]

I saw a poll on Instagram recently talking about rival ships in ML. The Marinette ships (Luka vs Adrien) were pretty evenly split. But the Adrien ships (Marinette vs Kagami) had the odds very high on Marinette's favor (around 80%). Why do you think people dislike Adrigami so much yet are okay with Lukanette?

Misogyny. Just kidding but only slightly kidding.

Well I can’t speak for everyone, but I can (and have) speak for myself. 

For one, Kagami has weird multiple characterizations, so if people envision her as her Onichan-self, then she’s on par with Chloe in terms of possessiveness and craziness, which doesn’t do her any favors. It’s hard to root for that kind of character. Animaestro Kagami was only marginally better, but she was just as up for being petty by rubbing it in Marinette and Chloe’s face that she was Adrien’s date. The Finale, Riposte, and Ikari Gozen Kagami is the only version of Kagami where you can’t put any blame on Kagami for how things play out in terms of the romance - it’s not her fault that she likes Adrien and Adrien likes her back. But unfortunately, for a long time the only good version of Kagami was from Riposte so the petty version and the crazy version were the only ones people had to go off of.

There’s also an argument that Adrien dating Kagami would be like dating his father - just another person telling him what to do and how to feel and where to go. The Finale gave a clearer image about what it would be like for them to be together, but before that most of Adrien and Kagami’s “dates” were about upholding their image and Kagami telling Adrien not to waste his time on the Ice Rink’s problems.

In contrast, Luka is just a really good guy who is willing to allow things to come naturally.

The other part of it is how ready Adrien/Marinette are to even be in a relationship with someone else. With Marinette, you get that everything and everyone is pointing to Adrien just not being interested in her. She didn’t have to be outright rejected to read the signs and Kagami definitely solidified that. And she’s proven to be mature enough to accept that and take that loss for the sake of letting Adrien be happy. It would hurt for a while, but you get the impression that she could move on. And Luka is willing to wait until she’s ready for him without pressure and without making demands of her. You know when Luka///nette happens that it will be because she’s really ready to give him a shot and is determined to put her focus on him.

You don’t get that impression with Adr///imi. Not only is Kagami very much pushing Adrien to nut up and make a choice already (super not here for waiting around until he’s ready for it) but Adrien is not giving himself the time to cool down from being rejected by Ladybug to accept her feelings and figure out what he wants. He literally asks Kagami on a date the same day that Ladybug turns rejects his rose. And his entire time on that date was spent ignoring her for someone else. It read very clearly as a rebound date and I’m baffled as to why Kagami wants to give him another shot when he’s proven he’s just Not Ready. And while I find it really annoying that Adrien thinks the way to be happy is to have a girlfriend instead of taking time to nurture his other relationships, like his friendships, he was perfectly honest about not being ready. You get the feeling that Adrien and Kagami will get together under her demands and he’ll just go into it half heartedly, whereas Luka and Marinette would get together when they’re both willing to give it a try.

I joke about misogyny, but it’s not entirely blameless. But what I think I’ve outlined isn’t fandom misogyny but rather writer misogyny. Luka is calm and chill and relaxed where Kagami is all over the place and uptight and demanding. The one keeping Luka and Marinette from being together is on Marinette for not being ready, which of course the BOY is perfectly okay with and it’ll just take Marinette getting her shit together to make the magic happen. The one keeping Adrien and Kagami from being together is on Adrien for not being ready, which of course the GIRL is very hurt and irritated by and will keep pushing him to make a decision before he’s ready to fully commit to her. 

Unfairness, unfairness for everyone.

[rawbin69]

Honestly, I’m not sure if I personally even like the show anymore.

Like, there was SO MUCH POTENTIAL!

The love square was such an interesting and fun concept! The stories of the characters were amazing and just- AGH everything was set up to be an amazing series!

The first season was good, though imo it didn’t *quite* becoming as awesome as it could have been. Still, it didn’t disappoint!

Then.. ahah. Then they dragged it all downhill.

Like, here! Have these two love-interests that come out of nowhere and now just accept that they’re there! Oh, and also, one of them is 100% perfect in every way and is super bland but he’s really cool also, and the other is a cool character on her own that would be much cooler if she wasn’t a love interest for ANYONE and was asexual!

(As you can tell, I really don’t like Luka because he’s poorly written and whilst I like Kagami I hate that she’s a love interest at all)

And just… killing off the love square is such a bad move. To be fully honest, I might just like,, idk. Make an AU where I can be happy with the show lol

(actually yes I will)

Look, here are some changes that would make the show sO MUCH BETTER (at least in my opinion):

1. Don’t add drama for the sake of drama. At this point, everything feels forced.

2. Luka loving Marinette is super forced. Like,, he sees her and is like “oh yeah this girl who is two years younger than me,, imma write songs for her and love her bc why not?” Also, he’s literally perfect and that makes him a bad character. Characters need flaws to be interesting. Luka is boring. (If you like him, that’s cool though)

3. For the love of god, stop killing the love square. Like,, in all honesty that’s what I’m here for because it’s juST SUCH A GOOD CONCEPT yet they fucking kill it off all the time

4. Instead of complicating everything with two new, forced love interests, how about idk, just reversing the love square? It’d add so much to the show and whilst it would be SUPER FRUSTRATING it would also be SUPER FUN! Like what the everliving fuck why do you ruin your own show

5. how about you don’t force more responsibilities on marinette, a 14 year old girl, and especially without a warning right after she’s had a breakdown over having too many responsibilities, hm?

Also, note to Astruc; *Stop making Félix a fucking demon. Yes, he’s a bitch, but he’s one of the best characters ever. At least in the PV version.*