#attachment types

[hollowcrossings--archived]

something so embarrassing about avpd is getting little 'friendship crushes' on people. why is my heart clenching because someone liked my post? why am i so nervous to interact with you? why am i so eager to see what you post online despite talking once or twice? why can i not respond to anything you say to me out of panic? it is so embarrassing, i feel like a middle-schooler having a playground crush and scribbling messy valentines that will never be delivered.

[headlesstypo]

Misconceptions About Type 3

In general, I think the image types are hard for people to conceptualize. Being heart last is more common than being heart first (or probably even heart second). 3 descriptions can fall short, but outside perhaps being geared a bit too much towards the social instinct, 3s and 3 fixers who don't see themselves in 3 are more often in denial of their 3 traits than misinterpreting the descriptions (or assuming subtype descriptions are all encompassing).

3s are hardworking, type A individuals who push themselves to be the very best: This description is definitely fitting for some 3s, but is not a requirement for being a 3 core or even a 3 fixer. As an image type who uses external merits to derive worth, this type can fall into the pattern of wanting to "look good" or maintain an image even when they do not have the skills or energy to actually maintain that image. Wanting to do as little as possible to get what you want, control your self image, or maintain what you wish to maintain isn't anti-3 nor even uncommon with type 3. A 3 might not even want to be "the very best" as much as it just wants something to "prove" their own worth or something that they can tie to their self image that is good. Being "above average" but realistically understanding that you cannot be the best is still a 3 oriented sentiment.

Type 3 specifically wants to look good and will do anything to maintain their image: Again, this can fit some 3s but misses describing others. 3 influence (and in general, strong heart influence) seeks to control their image both in how they are perceived and how they perceive themselves to be. For 3s especially, this is based on traits that are seen as valued to them, will help them to reach their goals/get them what they want, or will be valued by others. If the 3 values being, say, intimidating, or are consistently getting pigeonholed into being seen as something they have no control over, the image they present or the self they cultivate may not be what is typically described as appealing or even good. If the 3 is constantly labeled as "lazy, villainous, or cruel," a 3 could integrate these traits into their presentation purely to provide a false sense of control over their own image. 3s may even find it appealing when others are disturbed or repulsed by them, as it bolsters that they are what they value. There is always an external tie of course, but this tie is not always a conscious one. On the other side of things, 3s are not necessarily immoral, unconcerned for their relationships, and willing to entirely throw their principles away for what they desire. Morality and principle are something that most people have regardless of type. While 3 cares about the image and their presentation, they still care that they are something that they can see as having worth. Being someone who only cares about how they're perceived and cannot match that with how they truly are is something many 3s struggle with and particularly moral or principled 3s aren't going to give up on morality, especially if being good and having a strong sense of reliability and moral code is how they view themselves to be. It's also worth noting that not every 3 is actually good at knowing how things will come across (even if they are oriented around their image), there's a lot of 3s that lack awareness of how their behavior actually gets interpreted by others and will actively make themselves look terrible.

3s only do things for the sake of their image: This is a common sentiment expressed by 3 fixers who will defend not being a 3 influenced when they mistype as 5, especially if they are academically oriented or enjoy learning/researching. 3s and those influenced by it are especially attuned to what is valued. In this example, intellect, being a lifetime learner, and being useful/self sufficient are all things that are both socially valued and things that people tend to like in general. 3s have interests too and, as assertive types, are connected to what they want. 3s will also go after what they want and what they genuinely enjoy because they enjoy it. They will often do it in a way that will bolster their self worth and has some (often unintentional, unconsciously set up) tie to the external, but like every type not everything is exclusively to feed the fixation.

3s are prideful and shameless: Oh they will certainly present this way, but the majority of 3s will be pretty connected to their sense of shame. It's kind of the same thing that happens with 9, as the 9 archetype is often depicted as being very disconnected from anger to the point of lacking awareness of it, but in reality most 9s struggle heavily with passive aggression and internal anger. 3s are often just as aware and connected to their internal insecurity and desire to be worth something as they are of their prideful, arrogant nature. 3s are ones that will overestimate their own own abilities, but many are painfully aware and moved by not being good enough or feel as though they are behind in some way.

Sp 3s are [insert countertype/Naranjo description]: I usually don't go directly after Naranjo or countertype, but the big thing I've noticed that this particular description is missing sp3s connection to the assertive triad and over eliminates the image orientation. This description is consistent with the way a lot of sp3s see and try to present themselves, as sp does remove a bit of the external orientation 3 typically has and brings emphasis on trying to generate a strong sense of self worth through competition with the self. For those typing exclusively off of the descriptions though, it's worth noting that these descriptions tend to also strongly resembles the 6 mindset. Even if this type often will take issue with their own image orientation and often does present and think of themselves as "anti-vanity" or even genuine, every image core will be focused on image, presentation, and identity as is typical of the heart triad.

[funkymbtifiction]

attachment

From the Enneagrammer blog:

I think there is some vagueness with the term "attachment" in object relations which leads to confusion about how it plays out, because technically, "frustration" types are attached to frustration and "rejection" types are attached to rejection. What "attached" means in this latter sense is that there is an ego-investment in replaying relational circumstances such that one, say, gets frustrated because the ego is built on a foundation of frustration -- e.g. if I am not frustrated, something is wrong, because from childhood, the habituated survival state is one of frustration. Same goes for "rejection."When we get to "attachment," however, it translates to: "attachment" types are attached to attachment. This is true in a surface sense, but quite confusing. The question to specify this dynamic, then, is "what relational circumstances are replayed such that the ego maintains itself?" More specifically, "what relational circumstances must I replay so that I can attach to an object over and over and over again?"From the podcast episodes, Courtney's example for these triangle types is that the child did not feel seen/supported, so they asked themselves "yesterday I felt seen/supported, but today I don't; what can I do to feel seen/supported?" Thus comes adaptation. As an object relations pattern, however, what relational circumstance must be played out for the ego to adapt over and over and over again? -- The dynamic of not being seen/supported, i.e. being disconnected from the object. In other words, triangle types actually play out the circumstance of feeling disconnected *so that* they can adapt and maintain an ego that is invested in adaptation. Simply speaking, I will continually make it such that I am not seen/supported so that I can adapt and then feel seen/supported.Furthermore, seeking and feeling this disconnect makes me feel individuated, which is actually false individuation and another way the ego maintains itself because I'm just replaying an object relation, a past trauma. In this sense, just as types 147 are attached to frustration and 258 to rejection, 369 could be said to be attached to disconnect: I make sure I am eventually unseen/unsupported so that I can *feel* like an individual and then adapt.We see examples of this where triangle types are often the most heavily invested in saying things like "I relate to this, I don't relate to that!" or "You don't know who I am! You don't see me!" or "I'm so misunderstood! I'm too nuanced to be put in a box!" -- while these things might be true, there is often a lot of emotional attachment because the ego is invested in replaying this habituated survival state: if someone actually saw/supported me, and I don't have to adapt, then what am I?

[tvandenneagram]

Hi! Could you explain more about attachment types?

Hi Anon,

Thanks so much for your question :)

The attachment types are part of the object relations triad, which also consists of the frustration and rejection types. Attachment types are 3, 6, 9, frustration types are 1, 4, 7 and rejection types are 2, 5, 8. Object relation theory suggests that our first relationships as children form our expectations of adult relationships.

In a nutshell, attachment types want to feel like their needs are being met (with people, things, situations). Their sense of self is deeply based on their relationships with others, and they are likely to adapt themselves to be consistent with important people or things. This is why 3s, 6s and 9s often struggle with their identity. Additionally, these types are all connected within the integration and disintegration, e.g. 3s disintegrate into 9s, 9s disintegrate into 6s, 6s disintegrate into 3s and vice versa for integration.

Type 3s: 3s are driven by their need for success and seek validation from others, so they will likely adapt their self-image to be consistent to the expectations and values of others. If they project those values, they think they will gain validation and respect from others. Basically, their attachment is based on their self-image and validation from others.

Type 6s: 6s are driven by their need for security and phobic 6s often follow authority closely, so they will adapt their belief systems to be consistent with authority figures. 6s doubt their own beliefs and security, so they seek security through belief systems and authority figures. Their sense of self is based on their associations and relationships with others, as it makes them feel safer. In essence, their attachment is based on their loyalty and association to important groups and/or people.

Type 9s: 9s are driven by their need for peace and comfort, so they will likely change and adapt their opinions and desires to be consistent with others. 9s believe if they have the same opinions as others there is no chance of creating conflict and they will maintain peace. 9s try to create harmony by changing and melding with others to ensure there is no conflict. Basically, their attachment is based on their idealised view of the world, and they will adapt to create this view.

The main question for attachment types is; How can I preserve what I have? 3s want to preserve their image of success, 6s want to preserve their security and 9s want to preserve their peace and comfort. This is why 3s, 6s and 9s present similarly as they all adapt according to their attachment style. They can also come across as contradictory as they change themselves according to the situation, and they can be people-pleasers.

If there is interest, we might do a post on the rejection and frustration types as well.

[funkymbtifiction]

Fi / Attachment Types

I just want to talk a little bit about being an ENFP and an attachment type (6). I was listening to the Big Hormone Podcast last night talk about attachment types and their struggle to decide anything, because there’s a “yes/no/maybe” internal reaction going on, and I have to say that’s true. It’s like simultaneously wanting to say yes, and be attached, and say no, and remain free of attachment. I’m not really sure how I feel most of the time, which makes my Fi kind of hazy.

Since I get asked this over and over (what is Fi? Am I an ENTP or an ENFP?), let’s talk about Fi. It’s a self-referencing system, where you go away from everyone else to decide how you feel about something and measure it against your inner self. It’s the need to live in accordance to your conscience, and it’s a thing inside you that tells you if this is okay, not okay, or “I don’t care.” With me, some things are automatic. I knew when I saw the trailer that I hated the Robert Downey Jr. version of Sherlock Holmes. I didn’t need to see the film, I just hated it. When I did see the film, Ne didn’t change my mind. I still hated it. I even got offended when my friends likened me to Irene Adler. I’m not sure if they meant temperament or vibes, but that annoyed me, to be “likened” to something I hate.

This reaction was instinctive and irreversible. It’s not rational; it’s a value judgment with me as the standing judge and jury: I. Hate. This. I have the same visceral reaction whenever I see a historical figure being maligned, because they can’t defend their reputation. I hate it. This is what Fi is like. It’s an unconscious NOPE that you cannot explain, that makes sense to nobody else, and that is immediate and abstract and you don’t know how to put it into words except NO. I won’t stand for this!!

(Including a gif, because I have a sense of humor about it now.)

This happens to me on and off, here and there. It’s not all the time, and I don’t let my inner responses override my intuition. In other words, I can give someone a fair trial in my mind (seeing their point of view) instead of dismissing them, even if I disapprove of their behavior. Superficial Fi judgments are immediate and fixed, if I can just see or hear something and respond to it… but when it comes to REAL emotions, everything is up in the air. They’re not a Yes/No. This whole argument about Dean being ISFJ or ISFP has sparked some stuff in my past, because I identify with Rory at times in terms of the “I don’t know what I want” aspect of her behavior. I’d never cheat on a boyfriend with someone else, but I’ve been in that place where I don’t know what I want, really, or if I want this friend in my life, and if not, how do I get out of it? I can’t even decide if I want to ask a friend to go somewhere this weekend with me, because I don’t know if I want to go to that place in the first place, or if I’m just being nostalgic. It has become this whole debate in my mind, because I don’t know how I feel, or if it matters, or if the drive would be worth it. And that is how I live my entire life. Of not being sure what I want most of the time or how I feel.

I know this can be incredibly annoying to other people, and that’s one reason I haven’t sought any close friendships in person for a long time, because I know I do the “yes/no/maybe” with them. They’re never quite sure how I feel about them or where I stand or if I’m in this friendship for the long haul or not. Because I’m a reliable person, I stick around, but there’s often giant question marks over my head about how I feel about them. Being a 6, I keep them at a slight distance while also needing them around. I wish I were a gut type, because then I’d just know by how people make me react to them if I like them or not, but instead, it all goes through my head. It sparks endless questions. I don’t listen to my heart because it doesn’t scream at me very loud. My brain is much louder.

Most of the time, I don’t know how I feel about something. I’m going through a slump right now and I’m not sure why, but nothing is holding my interest. I don’t want to do anything. And figuring out what the cause of this is hard, because Fi can’t tell me through the haze of being an attachment type. All I can do as a 6 is ask questions about it – over-think it, like usual. Does my loss of interest in this mean I am tired of it, doesn’t want to do it, or is this just a temporary slump and will I feel differently next week? Would I be happier if I dumped this? Is that what I want? I’m trying to figure out, from a logical place what my emotions are doing, which is impossible, because Fi isn’t rational, it’s subjective and based in the moment. Things happen, and it reacts. All I know today is, “I don’t care about this.” Being a responsible person, an attachment type, I will do it if it needs done anyway, because I am not a quitter. But a very large part of me wishes I could just be “irresponsible” (to my own mind) and slack off on everything. Just dump people and walk away. Just delete things when I’m bored with them. But I can’t, because Fi says “that isn’t who you are. That would make you feel miserable and unhappy, to be someone who just abandons things/people like that.”

So it’s a catch 22 most of the time. How do I feel? Does it matter? Should it factor into this? Am I just being sentimental here? Do I want this person in my life? Do I care about this hobby? Can I understand that point of view? What would I do in their shoes? Can I relate? It’s a life of never-ending questions, combined with a very real need to always be growing and moving forward and when I’m not feeling like that is happening, I get restless and frustrated. Determining Fi isn’t a case of “am I emotional or rational?” It’s very much a sense of, “Am I being the best possible person I can be, in order to live with and LIKE myself? Can I live with myself if I make this decision? Is this who I am?”

Sometimes you can’t, and that’s more difficult than you can imagine. Every place I have let myself down is like this huge, glaring sign of regret hanging up in my mind. You didn’t live up to yourself, you caused pain, you knew you couldn’t live with it and you did it anyway… Fi is about looking at the past, identifying what you did wrong in that situation (whatever makes you feel the worst or like you failed yourself), and then trying to use it as a guideline going forward. AKA, this made me feel like crap, so I never want to do it again. I’ll never just stand there and listen to someone insult my friend… I’ll never not defend what I think; next time I know I have to do something about this…

So I guess, just cut the attachment types in your life a break. They don’t always know what they want, and it’s as confusing and annoying for them as it is for you if you’re not one. And don’t vilify Fi as being selfish or idolize it as being more moral than Fe, because it isn’t. It’s subjective, abstract, hard to understand even for the Fi user (hence the needing to go away and think deeply about how this is making you feel in order to figure it out), and doesn’t make any sense half the time, because it’s just based on “yeah, nope, and I don’t care.”

One time a friend found out I’m not close to my sisters and said she was sorry, because she loves her sisters. I honestly said, “I don’t care.” I didn’t. I don’t. I don’t know them, so why would I care about not being close to them? But that surprised her, and in turn, it made me ask Ne/Fi-related questions: is a lack of caring an implication that I should care? Am I missing out on something? I can’t force myself to care, can I? Should I try to care? Why??

Fi isn’t “do I make emotional choices,” it’s “Do I care and is this me?” and it’s continuous, a sort of “self-focused” determination in all things, through all questions, to find out Who I Truly Am. And it’s much easier for IFPs to do this than EFPs, because IFPs ask this all the time, instantly. EFPs think, well, I need to either find out who I am through direct action and experiences (do things and react to them - Se) or through intellectual debate (ask myself philosophical questions and react to them - Ne). ENFPs have an extremely difficult time self-typing because they are so “heady” in terms of Ne that they often don’t realize how many of their choices are determined subjectively according to their internal reactions. It’s not a logical Ti process in terms of “how does this work,” it’s more about “how do I work?” Who am I??

I should also add that being a 6, I don’t take on too many hobbies or interests that I take seriously, because the double-thinking that Ne and 6-9 do together is emotionally exhausting. I don’t have the mental energy to double-think 900 things, so it’s easier for me just to say no to things that I know automatically will be an energy suck. This is problematic in the long run, however, because without a variety of interests and new information, Ne gets bored. So I need to keep my Ne fed with enough new information and hobbies that it’s satisfied in thinking about things, without introducing the need to make “decisions” with that information, which would cause me to over-think and stall out.

[liquidlightning]

i miss my boyfriend! im so excitied i get to call him that now and its frankly homophobic that we are both working all week and dont get to see each other til sunday!!!!!!

[armillary-spheres-lover]

@kendrixtermina the way I thought I was a 5 because I was always so deeply attached to my perpetual disconnecting from myself and others. I think it's interesting. How is 5 doing that disconnect is beyond me at this point

That one last pod is really fucking me up

[hreog]

Oh wow. Gold standard for agony aunts.

My boyfriend said he wanted to marry me, but then walked out

To move on you need to recognise that your type is not your type, says Philippa Perry