#bftc

[shyjusticewarrior]

"Nothing Jason says can be taken for truth."

"I believe you."

[spiritsglade]

Jason Todd & the Possum Reflex

Welcome to my beautiful crack theory about how Bruce's training is actually what got Jason killed. It could be intriguing for angst if it wasn't extremely stupid, but I suppose that's the charm of comics, isn't it?

First of all, let's cover an odd moment that occurs during A Death in the Family: both Joker and Sheila assume Jason died after the crowbar beating. This leads into a secondary point, that Joker was not planning to kill Jason.

Batman (1940) Issue #427

Joker was beating up Jason for fun. Joker wasn't planning to actually kill Jason, and freaks out a little when he realizes he may have to face the consequences of his actions! His following actions - tying up Sheila and setting the bomb - are meant to cover up the evidence. Joker believing Jason died is the reason he set the explosion that actually killed Jason. <- Put a pin in that. 📌

Except... Joker didn't kill Jason. Jason wakes up again, later, much to Sheila's surprise.

Batman (1940) Issue #427

Now, you may have an objection here. What about about Jason's canonical immortality due to being trans? This would be a plausible alternate explanation - that Jason did die, only to come back to life after the bomb was set - if not for Deadman's perspective.

Deadman: Dead Again Issue #2

Jason was absolutely, unarguably alive that entire time.

Joker did not kill Jason, but both he and Sheila thought he did. And this is odd, isn't it? That Sheila Haywood, a doctor, would not think to check for breathing or a pulse? That Joker wouldn't make sure before going ahead with his very well developed plan Blow Up Evidence and Hope For The Best.

Of course, Deadman would be able to easily tell of Jason was alive or not, given that his powers. So if, say, Jason were to reflexively slow his pulse and breathing to the point that it seems like he's dead, it may be enough to trick Joker and Sheila, but not Deadman.

...

Hey, wait.

IT'S TIME TO TALK ABOUT BATTLE FOR THE COWL.

Battle for the Cowl by Tony Daniels is a great comic if you want to watch your fav get character assassinated six ways to Sunday. It's also a great comic because of the glorious Possum Reflex. Let's hear what Tim has to say about it:

Battle for the Cowl Issue #3

Tim implies before this panel that the reason why Jason didn't actually kill Tim was because the Possum Reflex meant Jason thought Tim died. Jason is, earlier, seen testing Tim's pulse, and telling Dick that Tim was dead.

Let's pretend that I respect what the comic has to say long enough to come to the conclusion that the Possum Reflex is effective enough to trick Jason into thinking Tim was dead. Meaning that theoretically, it should be enough to trick Joker and Sheila.

Despite getting training from many other sources, Tim specifies that Bruce taught him this technique. Therefore, it is not too far-fetched to say that Bruce developed this technique earlier, and would have taught it to the previous Robins... like Jason.

Now, let's address that earlier pin:

📌Joker believing Jason died is the reason he set the explosion that actually killed Jason.

Jason, in ADitF, did not die due to the crowbar. Joker only believed Jason died because the beating triggered the Possum Reflex. In teaching Jason this technique - a technique meant to protect him - Bruce instead led Jason to his doom.

[warrior-of-storms]

BftC in currentverse is just Dick & Jason fighting to take the cowl to protect the other from having to be Batman (Dick bc he hates being Batman and wants to protect Jason from that fate, Jason bc Dick hates being Batman and he wants to protect him from that fate) and Cass picking the suit & Damian up while they're distracted.

[lycheeortrezo]

Note game but for art motivation because I’m boreddd

1 notes - I’ll make a asset for my object show

10 notes - ill draw spoken for teto (I did a poll awhile back for what I should draw and that song won)

20 notes - I’ll try another style

50 notes - I’ll make a full body sheet for my main oc

100 notes - I’ll finish the story board for my object show

150 notes - I’ll try making 3D art

200 notes - I’ll do a full video thing on my object show characters and their personalities

300 notes - this is way to high uhh I’ll make a full fan music video for mochi mochi (a miku song) if you haven’t listened to it go do that now

I don’t really think this will get that much notes butttt I’m curious to see how many it can accomplish :D

[wildestheart4ever]

Okay, so I know that Jason has died a few more times outside of AdtF and the heavily implied UtRH

I think he also died in Battle for the Cowl[???] where he falls from a moving train[or was it from a bridge??] and into a river

Which of course made me think of my girly, Vanessa Augustine, as always lol

Which also made me think of the scene of Hunchback of Notre dame where Esmeralda is lurking in the shadows and dives into the torrent river to save Phoebus

How did she wind up in the position to immediately dive for him without interference? Idk maybe she got left behind and caught up just in time to see his fall

Just her being there to be the first person Jason sees the moment he comes back. Once again holed up in some dingy bolt hole, recuperating from the aftermath of the fight

I also have this scene in my head where she’s there to see the video message Bruce left for Jason [which by the way: yikes] and pleading for Dick not to show it to Jason

But that would mean her having access to the cave - which considering her complete antagonism towards the Bats at this point in time, would be something she would not have

I heard he has apparently attempted to force Jason to listen to it a couple of times after [‘cause apparently he thinks he can get a different reaction from the first one] - correct me if I’m wrong

So I’m sure I can squeeze and alter the aforementioned scene somewhere - though she’d be a bit less pleading and near tears for her friend, and a lot more outraged and mama bear shaped.

[chaoticbatfam]

Remember when I said I’d be a frequent ranger in your inbox, and then I VANISHED??? Sorry ‘bout that. I got distracted with my rewrite and a shit ton of assignments. Which, since I’ve now finished the first part of that fic and I’m assignment free, I’ve given myself the little treat of coming to bother you :)

Today’s rant subject: the DISRESPECT to everyone in Battle for the Cowl since I’m fresh off the hate train for it. Imma lay the crimes out, so don’t worry if you haven’t read it or not. (Also, maybe spoilers?)

SO! In Battle for the Cowl, they used Jason as a generic bad guy. He SHOOTS DAMIAN. LIKE. IN A LETHAL WAY. They erased the anti-hero part of his personality, so he’d be evil and Dick would look better. Which, WTF? Why??? The story would be way more compelling with an actual moral dilemma. Jason may be a little shit sometimes, but I don’t think he’d be out here shooting innocent kids for funsies. In those same comics he also tries to legit kill Tim in a way that is messy in justification at best. More believable than just going ‘blank blam!’ on Damian considering previous beef, but it wasn’t written believable. Then don’t get me started on Damian. He got written as an insufferable, whiny, cowardly little thing. DaMIAN?! He’s a lot of things, but he would not be afraid of a couple villains surrounding him. He would try to fight them, not jokingly beg for his life like they chose to do. Tim and Dick are okkkk in it, but nothing they did even stuck out in my memory other than “Tim almost dies and Dick beats Jason in a fight for the mantle he didn’t want.”

Anyway, rant concluded. I just hated the BFTC run very much.

lmao no worries I pretty much vanished for a week as well so—

I have to admit, I haven’t read (watched?) BFTC, but I trust you and . . . I’m not surprised. All too often are my favorite characters’ nerfed in order to make other characters look better or progress the plot *glances at the Rako Hardeen Obi-Wan arc*. When it happens I like to just ignore it because if they’re not acting canon? Then they’re not canon. I don’t care if it’s official in the eyes of fandom court, it’s not allowed in my nice little fanon world

[glitter-stained]

A bit from the BtFC fic. Jason at the start of his spiralling.

...................................

“Bat’s been gone, they’re saying.”

“He ain’t really gone man. That thing can’t die.”

“Oh yeah? The birds die, don’t they? Why not the big bad bat?”

“’Cause a bird isn’t a bat, that’s why, you-“

“What did ya just call me-“

“They’re gonna rush in, I’m tellin’ you, all the loonies and whatever the hell those things are-“

He tries to lose himself in the chatter. Drown himself in it. He came here for that. The drink he ordered an hour ago still sits untouched. That won’t be enough to drown in. It is the voices that he needs. The arguments, the shouts, the simple, unfiltered, ugly noise of one of the worst dives of the city.

The voices are rough, angry, feeding into whatever fire is clawing at his skin. But they are still better than the other voice, the one that won’t go away. Why can’t he shut up? He ought to be quiet. The dead ought to be quiet.

 “…secret…” “…needs repair…” “…a good doctor…”

“Secret” Jason echoes the word once again, his voice a ragged whisper. “Secret. It was our secret.”

 And then Bruce put that into words. The secret they were meant to bury in silence. He promised. Bruce promised. You should keep your promises. She never did. They never do.

He shouldn’t have spoken. Bruce shouldn’t have put it into words. To name them gives them power. Bruce didn’t name it…but he spoke out loud.

 And what more did he say, in the other messages? The messages meant for his true sons? His heir?

He didn’t keep his promise. He never keeps his promises. Dammit, you should know that by now. Promises are made to be broken.

 Jason feels eyes on him and glances up. Whatever the spectator sees in his face has the old fool hurriedly getting to his feet and making for the door. He feels moisture on his face and realizes at some point he started crying.

Okay, "character is entering a mental illness episode, their facial expression (which they aren't aware of) frightens someone and they realize they're crying" is now officially one of my favourite trope (is it a trope? Can I call it a trope? Can we make it a trope? The confrontation between the external rejection and intimate suffering is brutal I love it)

(Also not linked to psychology itself but "the dead ought to be quiet" followed by Jason whispering, and the contrast between Jason whispering and the loud voices in and out of his head at the start of the spiral is pretty great. Ghostboy McHauntingThemes in the flesh.)

The cultural myth about Batman feeding into Jason's turmoil, putting Batman as some kind of creature incapable of dying, talk about a pedestal...

Jason's fixating on the trauma but incapable of naming it even to himself, furious at Bruce for doing so. The "it was our secret" part that really gives the ick because that kind of "keep it in the family" sentiment is so common in toxic/abusive systems

The breach of trust from "he wasn't supposed to mention it out loud" to "what if he said something else to the others" + "promises are never kept" -> anxiety spiral + hints of black and white thinking. He should have kept a secret (Bruce)/She never did (Catherine)/They never do (Sheila? Willis?) The emphasis on the repeated broken promises and abandonment, like he's identifying a clear pattern of broken, betrayed trust and he's the common denominator: "you should know that by now."

Also Jason drinking alone and someone running from him and the subtle mention of his estrangement (qualifying the others as the real sons) all emphasizing how truly alone he is.

I'm eating this up, anon. This is the good stuff, for real

[phantomchick]

I still need to read btfc but it sounds like the story reinforces Jason's worldview about killing if it paints him as irredeemable and unchanging? Like, deserving of death unchanging.

Hmm, I wouldn't say it reinforces his worldview about killing per sé, for all his attempts to write him as irredeemable Tony Daniel's Jason is focused on saving lives and being Batman because Gotham needs one to keep it stable, something Dick finally clocks at the end of the comic and embraces.

Jason isn't unchanging, the comic in and of itself is an attempt to change the way he's doing things with going out as gun-batman to save his brothers (albeit lethally) and re-inventing himself yet again.

At the same time what doesn't change about him is that every misguided overture he makes toward his family is rebuffed hard which is pretty much consistent with uth, brothers in blood and titans 29 for all that I think the latter two suck as comics.

Jason might be misguided but he's not actually trying to hurt his family here but rather, save them and reach out to them, of course every single attempt he makes backfires on him with them turning around and attacking him and him attacking right back but still.

(Him attacking them back results in people saying he tried to kill Damian and Tim which... no, it's clarified later that Damian had armour there and Jason'd literally just saved his and Dick's lives so it would make no sense for him to be planning his murder y'know? He did almost kill Tim but that was as I've explained, after Tim beat him with a crowbar while dressed as Batman, so seriously a diminished capacity situation imo for all that it's one of Daniel's big irredeemable Jason pushes and Damian was recovered enough to suit up and help save Tim from the cave-in thankfully.)

It might re-inforce the idea that he's irredeemable in the sense that he's in pain/traumatised/broken as Bruce's will suggests from the way both Dick and Tim use his triggers against him during their fights. (The 'too broken/mentally ill to be a hero' thing is rich considering what regular Batman is like and the whole comic is really psychophobic/shitty about mental health in general especially during the fight with Tim but at least it meshes a little with the lazarus madness justification specifically made to excuse Jason being written ooc.) But I don't think Jason thinks he's deserving of death at the end so much as... he's without hope.

Even when he does what he knows is the right thing (being Batman when the city is de-stabilising without one to keep the balance of power/trying to save his siblings and convince them to work with him) it won't work because it's Jason doing it. Things can't get better for him, his sibling's won't trust his intentions even if he saves their lives and will move straight to subduing him, neither sides are listening to each other and in the end he pretty much has to accept that even his dad didn't believe in him anymore/think that he ever should've been Robin and it hurts him.

He can't trust Dick's lacklustre reform pitch because Dick's shown not a moment of kindness or compassion to Jason in any of their post-resurrection interactions, but especially in this comic where he uses their dad's last words to Jason to distract him so he can win and reform is presented as something Dick will impose onto Jason, like he's a project/burden for Dick.

I don't think the comic re-inforces his belief in killing, but I do think it re-inforces the idea of how alone he is/the impossibility of return and I wouldn't be surprised if Jason saw himself as irredeemable given all that. The damage done to his relationships definitely feels irrecoverable and the people he respects one and all seem to consider him a lost cause who they'll only help out of duty because they feel obligated to and that help comes with a side of disdain.

As for deserving of death, I personally headcanon that him letting go of the subway car and plunging away is yet another instance of him dying and coming back ala the end of Under The Hood. He can't die, he can only push on even if there's no hope of things getting better for him personally.

All that said you should keep in mind I have a very Jason-centric reading of the text and I have known Dick or Tim stans who take the comic as proof that Jason needs to grovel to the family (often Jason's ooc actions are remembered while Dick or Tim's are forgotten or not brought up) and his isolation/their dislike and distrust of him is his own fault. So really best to read it for yourself and make your own conclusions.