Anon wrote: Hello MBTi Notes. I’ve long been reflecting on something that I haven’t seen addressed with the depth it deserves, and I was wondering if you might be able to offer your insight.
As an INTP, I’ve often noticed that we are frequently framed — both in fiction and in real life — as dull, naïve, or socially unimpressive. Even when portrayed positively, INTPs are usually cast as eccentric nerds, side characters, or comic relief. There’s rarely any emphasis on traits like charisma, leadership, or vision — qualities that other types seem to be readily granted, even in speculative representations.
This seems to mirror my own lived experience, and that of many INTPs I’ve spoken to. Despite having strong inner convictions and a deep need to understand and influence the world, when I try to speak or assert ideas, it often lands flat. I notice that my arguments, no matter how thought-out, don't create impact — or worse, they get brushed aside. There’s a sense of being seen as slow, abstract, or disconnected.
Meanwhile, other types, even when less precise, tend to command more immediate respect or engagement.
Why does this pattern exist? Is there something about the INTP function stack (Ti-Ne-Si-Fe) that makes our strengths socially invisible or easily misread? And how might we break free from these limiting frames without betraying the core of who we are?
Thank you for the thoughtful work you do. Your writing has helped me feel less alone somehow
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There is a subset of types who write to me more often than others, usually because they suffer from long running issues related to isolation. I lovingly refer to them as the "stuck in their head" squad, aka, the four Introverted Intuitive (IN) types. These types often find kindred spirits in each other.
IN types share a unique ability to create an interesting inner life for themselves. However, there are two sides to every personality trait. Having an interesting inner life potentially becomes a disadvantage or liability when it leaves one suffering from problems such as:
tunnel vision (INTJ)
separateness (INFJ)
stagnation (INFP)
detachment (INTP)
Although these sound like different problems on the surface, they all stem from the same deeper phenomenon of not being able to reconcile one's inner life with the outer world. Basically, the extraverted functions are underdeveloped. This means it is easy for INs to intentionally or unintentionally cut themselves off from the world, via tertiary loop, and perhaps even lose touch with reality in extreme cases.
I daresay every IN has experienced what it's like to think things are one way only to (shockingly) discover that nothing is what they thought. The INs who haven't had this experience yet are usually young (and privileged) and still blissfully living in their heads.
Although this inner-outer disconnect affects all four types, they are not all equally aware of it, care enough to change it, or feel compelled to seek help/advice about it. Generally speaking, INs in the early stages of tertiary loop are likely to be in denial, whereas those who have grown weary of tertiary loop (and suffering its negative consequences) are more likely to seek change and reach out for help.
However, this doesn't mean that help will work or that change will be smooth for them, mainly because they might still be unaware of what the underlying problem actually is. These cases are usually easy to identify because they struggle with questions along the lines of "how do I change without betraying myself?", indicating their ambivalence about exiting tertiary loop. Basically, they fear developing extraverted functions because they believe doing so would somehow "compromise" their inner world.
When INs become more aware of the inner-outer disconnect, a common reaction is existential loneliness, due to feeling misunderstood (by loved ones), underappreciated (by society), or unable to access social supports (that would help ease their suffering). One of the reasons I keep this blog is to help INs feel less alone by giving them access to minds with similar experiences.
Unfortunately, there exists a disincentive to connecting directly with others. Socializing can feel threatening because it opens up the door to painfully bursting the tertiary loop mental bubble for good. Such a drastic psychological jolt isn't good for mental health and well-being either. Reluctance to experience this pain can lead to living in a contradiction of wanting and not wanting change at the same time.
The more time spent in tertiary loop, the more difficult it is to exit. The fact is there are comforts to be had in tertiary loop because it is a protective defense mechanism. The heavier the reliance on the comforts, the harder it is to give them up. Bad habits are difficult to break once one has grown too accustomed to their "benefits". Because immature/unhealthy INs live in their own little world and are inattentive to the outer world, it is unfortunately all too easy for them to convince themselves that bad habits aren't bad where they live.
As such, getting out of tertiary loop often requires a strong commitment to change and improvement, a feasible plan of action, and determination to persist during difficult or stressful times. Sadly, the longer a person has been in tertiary loop, the less equipped they are to handle the pain of leaving it.
Usually, the reason they got trapped in the first place was because they did not (have opportunity to) learn healthy coping strategies and thus had to resort to tertiary loop. Therefore, the feasible plan of action must include learning new ways to cope with negative feelings and emotions (i.e. improve emotional intelligence).
A conceptual overview of the IN inner-outer disconnect problem and solution:
When Ni is too out of balance with Se, INTJs become too extreme. They will eventually suffer from tunnel vision if they use Fi to continually justify ignoring empirical evidence of failure (Te rejection). To exit Ni-Fi loop, they must give up extreme thinking, but that can leave them stuck in feelings of dullness or mediocrity. If they genuinely want a fulfilling life, they have to learn how to adopt reasonable standards and balance their goal-seeking to address every important aspect of life (Te+Se development).
When Ni is too out of balance with Se, INFJs become unrealistic. They will eventually suffer from separateness if they use Ti to continually rationalize away critical feedback (Fe rejection). To exit Ni-Ti loop, they must temper idealism, but that can leave them feeling empty or jaded. If they genuinely want to feel at peace with the world, they have to learn to adapt their vision to better fit the contexts of day-to-day existence (Fe+Se development).
When Fi is too out of balance with Te, INFPs become solipsistic. They will eventually suffer from stagnation if they use Si to remove all possible interference with their inner status quo (Ne rejection). To exit Fi-Si loop, they must admit that their feelings/values have led them astray, but this can leave them feeling lost or broken. If they genuinely want life to move forward, they have to learn to make use of mistakes and flaws as opportunities for becoming more skilled at life (Ne+Te development).
When Ti is too out of balance with Fe, INTPs become very limited in their perspective. They will eventually suffer from detachment if they use Si to continually dismiss certain ideas as being unworthy of consideration (Ne rejection). To exit Ti-Si loop, they must admit that their understanding of the world is myopic, but this can leave them feeling dejected or apathetic. If they genuinely want to bring their ideas to fruition, they have to learn to enjoy the process of continually testing and improving them, in order to pick up the most skilled methods of communicating them (Ne+Fe development).
I think tertiary Si and inferior Fe issues have been covered pretty well for INTPs, so you can refer to previous posts. Perhaps you haven't fully realized the extent that Si loop has constrained you. You see yourself one way, but others see you completely differently. An unrealistic self-image is a tell-tale sign of inner-outer disconnect.
Part of the disconnect comes from you because Si loop and Fe blindness make you unable to address all the complicating factors that influence successful expression of the self. Part of the disconnect comes from others because they might not be fully equipped to understand you without your help. Both of these problems are within your power to address.
If your knowledge of human psychology is basically limited to Ti+Si thinking, then your understanding of people is lacking, so you don't know how to appeal to them. You are basically doing what most people do, which is appeal to others based on what works for yourself, rather than what works for them. The fact of the matter is most people aren't INTPs, or even INs, so they don't think like you do.
One of the main reasons people learn about personality type is to learn how to bridge individual differences in perception and judgment. In order to communicate with types that are quite different from you, it is sometimes necessary for you to learn to speak some of their language. The more "languages" you learn, the more versatile you can be when socializing with people.
This is unfortunately just something all INs have to deal with because they are a statistical minority. Minorities often have to go the extra mile to make themselves seen and understood by the majority. It also doesn't help matters to be an introvert in a society that values extraversion more.
However, it's important to remember that you have extraverted functions and you can learn to use them effectively. It is mainly a matter of how willing you are to realize your potential. Everyone has their challenges in life, and meeting challenges bravely is the path to growth. An important aspect of type development is about unlocking hidden strengths, but you won't be able to do that if you continue to believe improvement equals "self-betrayal" (i.e. Ne rejection).
Perhaps you mostly notice INTPs who are similar to you in terms of type development stage, since we unconsciously seek reflections of ourselves in the social/media landscape. While it is true that the majority of people struggle with ego development issues (and thus get represented as such in fiction), there are certainly examples to be found of people who are further along in type development, usually older in age. Make a point to look out for them and you might discover valuable inspiration for your own development.
After almost a month, I finally had the energy and could take some time to answer you! So, sorry for the delay, I am occupied due to work and due to personal reasons too.
So… Short answer: Use Ne.
Long Answer: Okay, honestly, my Ni has way more to say than that. Simplicity is not my strength lmao. And if you came to me for an answer, I expect you know how much I suck to make short, simple and condensed answer.
So, it is a tad bit more complicated than just “learn to use Ne”. An INFP looping means many more things than simply the bad use to non existent use of their Ne. It usually mean an unhealthy Fi, overused Si and a very unconscious and unpredictable inferior Te (so greater risk for griping).
In other words, other than typology ones, it means the person is probably trying to avoid “something” or/and have benefits in maintaining themselves into their delusional world. Therefore, the enneatype and IVs can be very helpful in assessing why there is a loop. However, I cannot elaborate on each possibilities, it is not what I believe will be the most useful anyway nor my forte to begin with (*inf Se*).
In any case, it doesn’t change it must be Ne who must be (re) used to get out of the loop. But it is important to understand why you resist Ne, why do you avoid using this function, as depending on the why depends how to stop resisting it.
Like I said, there are “benefices” gained from looping, or else, nobody would loop. By benefices I mean, it advantages people to keep themselves in that dynamic, thus why it can be so hard to get out of one or to be receptive to other people’s advices. So, it is extremely important to be Brutally Honest with yourself, to admit what you believe even if you feel or think it is wrong.
Example: I have found that unconsciously I believed I absolutely needed to be perfect, but consciously I knew it was impossible and so “wrong” to think that or to ask myself this perfection. However, I still profoundly believed I had to be perfect. My rational mind was telling me it made no sense, but I still continued believing that perfection was needed. But why? Why I’d keep believing something so goddamn ridiculous if “it makes no sense”? Because aiming for perfection made me be a Good Person TM (= benefices). And on top of that, if I continually aimed to be perfect, then nobody got the right to criticize me and tell me I don’t make the effort as I continually strive for perfection ( = avoiding critic and so avoiding to be confronted to imperfection). If I always strive for perfection, then I am good.
In relation to my Ni-Ti loop dynamic, what happens is any commentary or people feedback become a “critic” in my ears (Fe resistance). So, any external feedback (Fe and eventually Se) become a threat to my sense of being a good person striving for perfection. Ni has built a vision where I need perfection and so continually aim for that and Ti rationalizes my ideal and my doings into fitting my vision, despite the fact that looping mean I am stuck in my head and in a stagnant and rigid state rather than actually getting better. Truth will be that if I don’t listen to other’s perspectives (Fe), I have no objective standards to judge myself on and see what I really need to ameliorate. But listening to Fe means admitting I am not perfect, which I fear and avoid, thus the loop.
So, here comes the “Ok, but now wtf do you do to stop that?”.
Yes, we need to listen to the auxiliary to get better, but it is unrealistic to confront ourselves right on to the auxiliary since somewhere in our mind we hold some beliefs, some truths that are totally against what the auxiliary has to bring,which is also True. So here comes the deal… This deal is to find the middle point with what the Auxiliary has to offer and the truths you hold within yourself. I’ll take my case as an example again to illustrate: I aim perfection, Fe wants to bring improvement through an objective judgement. Both truths have the same goal => betterment to be the best I can be (aka To Be Good). It is impossible to be perfect, but it is possible to improve as a person. Therefore I needed to learn to compromise my standard for perfection and transform it with the standard to be “better”, the latter allowing me to be imperfect, accepting of my actual self and therefore to other’s feedbacks => Fe. In other words, I changed my conception of “perfection”. Perfection before was: no mistakes, always optimal despite never having done or seen what I am about to try. Perfection now is: doing your best, even if your best sucks, and then simply see (meaning it includes Se too, woot!) how to actually get better if it matters to me (and Ti!).
Now, related to INFPs; it is the same principle.You need first to establish what makes you stuck in the loop (inner beliefs, fears) and then see what Ne brings to the table and that is (too) confronting to you, or that you resist due to that inner belief.
If you are lost to what Ne pushes to do, I have a suggestion of what can make you integrate Ne progressively.
An INFP looping often fears the inconsistency in the external world and the possibility they will get lost in all those new potentials. Therefore, Fi engulfs itself with Si into a never ending self-confirming loop of self-righteousness, and keep shoving others away if they have the bad luck to think a tad bit differently than what the INFP value in order to keep safe what the INFP deemed “right” by known “facts” (Fi-Si, unconscious Te). Ironically, Ne has for goal to manifest their Fi in many ways rather than make it inconsistent like unbalanced Fi fears.
There come the importance to go step by step, and this means to follow the Fi-Si train of thoughts in the beginning despite it being wrong or very stupid. It involves either showing to this INFP or to yourself if your are an INFP, some novelty, but that still align with the comfort of the loop. In other words, it is to introduce Ne slowly in a way that is not seen as too uncomfortable at first and then progress slowly into more divergent ways that become challenging to Fi and Si, but not too abruptly to avoid making those to shut themselves off again.
So, more concretely, it is as simple as introducing one new and very simple thing, like listening to new musics, but still in their favorite Fi-Si genre, in their routine, but that still maintain the routine. And then evolving this into breaking the routine some now and then like going for a walk some days without planning (/anticipating) anything, or doing it despite the anticipation, starting off a new project even if it is not meant to be finished, brainstorming on stories, new musics, meanings of a favorite movie, until it becomes listening to new genres or new movies, reading new books and new genre of books, new interests… Also, making out with friends can greatly help I believe as it is the best way to be confronted with something external, new, different and that ask to be thought in many new perspectives in other to bring fluidity in the relations. So, it will ask Ne to jump in and perceive as many new potentials and create as many new project, ideas, possibilities, etc. it can. And this will ask to reinvent Fi.
It is tricky to do and ask, like I said, great honesty with yourself. It is not easy to do, and it asks time to get out of a loop, especially a very persistent one or if your are in unhealthier stage. So, I’d advise to be very patient with yourself and comprehensive. Go one step at a time. I personally can’t elaborate further my example as depending on the fears and beliefs depends how’s the best to bring back Ne in the equation. If you wish to talk about it, I will gladly take the time to listen to you. Know for a fact that I am pretty occupied and may answer with delays, like with this ask :’) I am still sorry about it.
I also invite any INFP that have dealt with loops to weight in too, it could be of great help.
So, if anybody has any other question or need clarifications, just ask :) Thank you for your question btw.
...under stress you can’t help rushing into a bookshop to buy new books like others would eat comfort food (while you have no time to read them and still must finish a dozen previous ones) and you spend your evening correcting page setting and punctuation on Wikipedia while your own bedroom is a complete mess.
Anon wrote: Hi mbti notes, hope you’re doing well! I’m the intp who wrote to you in October (post/767883189332197376) abt my new school. I just want to say thank you so much as that was easily the most insightful advice I’ve ever gotten!
I’ve managed to settle in at my school, but I’ve noticed I feel very isolated. I left behind all my close friends, and tbh I haven’t really put in the effort to make new ones. The issue is I don’t feel very connected to other people, or to even my class or school at large. The environment I’m in is extremely welcoming (everyone is new there) but I just don’t feel with any of it if that makes sense. I’d love to be the kind of person who’d engage with people and form relationships with them (even superficial ones), but people just feel so two dimensional, and I’ll talk with them as people but almost not feel anything. Like I’ll smile and laugh and go through the motions of it all but really I don’t know how to feel invested, and it’s such a shame because I want to feel connected and like I belong somewhere so badly.
I’ve also always been really closed off (like I had a very personal bereavement and I didn’t tell even my close friends), and it doesn’t help that I’ve missed the last 3 months of school (due to physical issues that have resolved now) so everyone kind of knows each other and I don’t, and I get so self conscious around people I don’t know very well. Like I only really become friends with people when I get comfortable with them, and the school is massive so the conversations I have with people are really fleeting and just kind of dissipate.
I genuinely think there might be something wrong with me in that I can’t do something that’s so natural and so important and valuable, and just in general I don’t know how to get more able to feel anything at all (because I don’t particularly). I just feel so not lucid and almost unreal about everything that kind of goes on, like I’m incredibly detached. Things just sort of pass me by all the time and I don’t ever feel engaged or like I really care about anything, and I suppose this is the primary example in my life right now. What can I do about this (I’m alr on antidepressants so I mean more in a way of shifting my thinking or getting a new perspective on it)? Tia!
Hi Mbti notes, I’m the intp that literally just sent you an ask abt isolation like an hour ago, but I forgot to add something else I wanted your advice on. How do people become real (and I mean that in a social sense)? Because I have moral standards and things I appreciate and value and things I would sacrifice other things for, but I still don’t feel socially real if that makes sense. As in, I feel as if I could potentially get to know other people and their hobbies and interests and likes and dislikes and potential reactions to things and just kind of like their views on the world, but I could never have that kind of relationship in a reciprocal way, because there’s nothing fundamentally about me to get to know. I just feel so bland and unopinionated, like I’m genuinely cool with whatever and I don’t really care about much either way. This has kind of always been the case so I don’t think I can put it down to it just being my current depressive tendencies right now. I realise i kind of already asked you abt this earlier in November so sorry if it feels repetitive! And thanks in advance :)
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It does feel repetitive. These topics have already been covered before under the relevant tags, so I suggest you review for yourself. I intend for my blog to only be used by people who are at a place in life where they are ready and willing to change and improve. It sounds to me like you don't qualify, since the previous "insights" haven't made much of a dent in your thought process.
I spent several years as a teacher, and the part of the job I really, really hated was having to cajole students into caring about their own potential. There's only so much that can be done for people who don't really want to change. I get a lot of requests for help, and though I'm sad to see people in trouble, my time is limited and I don't want to throw it away on those who are determined to rationalize away their problems, half-ass things, or limit themselves by going on and on about all the things they can't do.
More often than not in psychology, "can't" is really just code for "won't". "Can't" refers to uncontrollable things that one must learn to adapt to or accept. However, "won't" refers to a self-imposed obstacle that no one but you has the power to remove. So far, I have yet to hear a compelling reason that constitutes a genuine "can't". Mostly, what I hear is loop-talk, which generally indicates "won't". Maybe I'm wrong, and if I am, then give me a proper reason for why you "can't" change, something that doesn't sound like an excuse.
Suffice it to say that your problem is a common symptom of Ti-Si loop, which means the remedy is to develop auxiliary Ne. This requires you to shift your perspective to focus on all the things that CAN be done. It seems you're waiting for someone/something to save you, but that's not how it works. It has to be a personal choice, an exercise of personal responsibility. If you can't even stand up to honor and exercise your own power to act, how can you expect the world to acknowledge or recognize you in any meaningful way?
Choosing to stay in tertiary loop means trapping oneself in faulty thinking. Your way of thinking is illogical because you have cause and effect backwards. You think your detachment is caused by the world having nothing of interest to you when, actually, the cause of your detachment is that you haven't done enough to develop an interest in the world.
You're essentially sitting there expecting to have great friendships without having to lift a finger to build them, maintain them, or nurture them. And you expect to have a strong sense of identity without having to expend the blood, sweat, and tears to forge one for yourself through gathering meaningful life experiences. Is this reasonable? Isn't this basically the attitude of a helpless infant or an entitled brat?
Cause and effect means "no input = no output". Actually, the remedy to detachment is very straightforward: Form attachments. "Form" is a verb. Verb means DO. Get involved. Put yourself out there. Participate in events. Be proactive. Take on social responsibilities that compel you to contribute of yourself to the world. Look for things to love and devote yourself to them wholeheartedly.
Stop waiting and simply step up and do what needs to be done. There are lots of things that need doing in this world, a lot of people who need a hand, a lot of worthy causes that could use your talents and abilities. There are so, so, so many opportunities, but Si loop means you don't want to see them, which amounts to choosing not to care. It's willful ignorance.
You say you don't have any feeling, but that's false. The truth is you don't have the emotional intelligence to recognize your feelings and, when you get uncomfortable feelings, you push them away or run away from the challenge of meeting them properly. You often talk yourself out of action by presuming to know the result, convincing yourself that it's not worth it - this is easier than confronting how you truly feel.
For instance, self-consciousness is a feeling. It challenges you to evaluate yourself and your social competency honestly. If your social skills aren't up to scratch, the right thing to do is improve them. But self-consciousness is just a minor feeling that should not get in the way of a truly determined Ti dom. If you are so heavily influenced and held back by minor feelings such as self-consciousness, then maybe you should call yourself F instead?
Do you know that indifference is a feeling, and a warning sign? It's warning you that when you don't develop your potential and put your abilities to good use in the world, they will atrophy and eventually render you useless. And how can you feel like a person of worth when you have made yourself useless by continuously choosing to blend into the background? Indifference is an ego defense mechanism that is used to numb oneself, but it eventually becomes painful when the low self-worth that comes with it rises up to slap you.
If you come back to me again saying "I just can't" without providing a valid reason as to why, what else can I say? I'm not going to play the role of parent or master to command you into action. Nobody can command you to open up when you are determined to stay closed, because you believe "that's how I've always been". Do you get that what has always been doesn't have to determine what will always be?
Caring requires you to open up your heart, be generous, and share yourself with people. You keep saying you can't do things because you don't care enough. You haven't yet understood that caring is a choice you make when it finally dawns on you that the alternative, choosing not to care, means turning yourself into a nothing and a nobody.
If it doesn't bother you to be nothing, then, okay, it's your right to be nothing. But if it does bother you, then you do indeed feel something, and that feeling should prompt action. Not listening to pain is a common way of getting stuck in a rut. How much longer can you bear the pain of wasting away into nothingness? At what point does it become unbearable and taking action to change becomes the only choice? And is this how you want to conduct your life, always waiting and waiting for things to become completely unbearable before you even consider the possibility of change?
INFP 16. I love (and also really really hate) what you said about lack of objectivity. After reading about Si loop and pessimism, I'm more aware and try to balance with affirming thoughts. Do you think it helps body dysmorphia too? I'm not diagnosed or anything, I just really hate how I look sometimes. I used to think my judgements were right because of "fact" (like there's a line/mark/bulge to point at) but it's just another thing I get too negative about?
The notion of beauty standards is complicated, so you can read what I've written about it before. Suffice it to say that very few judgments regarding beauty should be considered "objective". You only need to study a bit of history to realize that beauty standards vary widely based on time and place, which reveals a social construct.
As an individual, your idea of beauty is very heavily influenced by the culture and society you live in. I always bring up the story of The Ugly Duckling to illustrate in simple terms what it means to have your perception (of beauty) twisted by society.
You see a line/mark/bulge and think ew gross, others might see something else. One person sees an ugly mole, another person flaunts it as a beauty mark. Your way of looking at it isn't the only valid way, so if your way always suspiciously turns toward the negative, then, yes, maybe you need to rebalance your perspective. Or, there might be a deeper self-esteem issue that needs addressing (especially as it relates to Te grip).
Body dysmorphia can feel like a vicious cycle: You feel bad about yourself for whatever reason, and then you start picking out the stuff in the mirror you don't like seeing, and then you feel even worse about yourself, and then you pick yourself apart even more harshly...
There are a variety of ways to recalibrate your perspective. If you're too negative or critical, then, yes, you can remind yourself to look for the good things you like. For example, you might not like this characteristic of your body, but that other aspect is awesome, so why only focus on the negative? It's unreasonable to expect perfection.
Another method of recalibrating your perspective is to broaden or deepen it:
Example of broadening:
People young and old have written to me about feeling aging anxiety every time they look in the mirror and see a line or a gray hair. But when I look at my parents and aunts and uncles getting older, I don't see them "aging" per se. I see them growing into their skin. I see the evidence of a full life written on their body, and I think it's beautiful and wonderful that they've made it so far in life. Average life expectancy in 1900 was 47, so humans have come a long way!
As I witness myself getting older every birthday, I'm a bit critical if I'm honest, but I quickly adjust my attitude. Instead of fixating on this or that detail, I look at myself and reflect on how extremely fortunate I am to be in good health because I have access to health care, healthy food, and my life isn't so stressful that I can't sleep well at night.
Taking "the grand scheme of things" as your perspective, lines/marks/bulges don't mean much. What matters more? What matters most? If you don't want to live in a society that only values people for their looks, then the change should begin with yourself first and foremost.
Example of deepening:
The way you look is largely determined by genetics, and looks will fade with age. Should you take credit for accidents of nature? Well, if you're going to feel good about yourself through others praising your genes as beautiful, the flip side is that you doom yourself to feeling bad when people don't.
From this perspective, the better approach is to have a deeper understanding of self-worth and how it should NOT be tied to things that have no real meaning, or things beyond your control that you shouldn't be faulted for.
Sure, it's a fact that people who are considered beautiful might have more doors opened to them, but it is also a fact that being a good person is likely to bring you many meaningful rewards in the long run. When people like you mainly for your looks, what happens when you inevitably lose them? When people love you for who you really are at heart... now that's gold. Why settle for less?
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Adjusting your perspective (aka cognitive reframing) isn't about lying to yourself but, rather, acknowledging that your thinking is flawed and needs correction or improvement. It is a tried-and-true way of mitigating excess negativity. And it should be relatively easy to do for anyone with a healthy N function. How's your Ne?
Anon wrote: Recently read /post/767883835956461568 and was blown away by how similar anon’s situation was to mine, as well as the clarity of your response. How would you modify your response to an INFP facing a similar situation? I’m 20 and lack a solid sense of self due to having experienced a pretty sheltered life: pretty much my entire life I was riddled with social anxiety and irrational self-hatred which I’m just now beginning to move past, and hence never really spoke to anyone, much less cultivated friendships.
In high school I was also laser focused on doing well academically due to parental pressure, and hence didn’t involve myself in any clubs that were meaningful to me. Now I’m 20 and bereft of the valuable skills, interesting experiences, and solid sense of self that people have gained through actually living their lives during high school. I feel like a young teenager learning to discover themself, and similarly to the anon in the linked post I struggle to maintain conversations with people as 1) I don’t know what to say and 2) I don’t feel like I have much to contribute, due to having a weak sense of self and not much life experience. I know I have a sense of self in the sense that there are things I’m interested in and want to do (and I’m involving myself in some of them, but of course as a total beginner) but I don’t have anything fully realized that I can actually use to connect with others.
I wasted an entire gap year on reading self-indulgent but ultimately intellectually and stylistically basic fiction and browsing the internet because I was in a home environment I didn’t feel comfortable exploring interests in- what kind of person does that. Am I even a person? None of this feels normal. It doesn’t feel like I’ve lived life at all because I haven’t, I don’t know what to speak to other people about because all I’m ever thinking about is how I don’t know what to say, or how I’m fucking up in this social situation, or how I’m not being interesting enough to hold their attention or be worthy of friendship, or how everyone else around me is fucking normal and can speak to people and sustain conversations and make good impressions on people and cultivate friendships but I’m cooked.
Apologies for the rambling wall of text and thank you for reading this - sincere thank you in advance if you decide to answer this, it seems like a lot of effort goes into answering these questions and trying to help people.
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If the problems in that post apply to you, then the advice given applies equally to you, since they are not type specific. I'll leave you to review it and implement.
The only difference for INFP would be to address Si loop and Te grip problems. Basically, this would require you to stop wasting time with making excuses and self-flagellation and get on with life. The past need not determine anything unless you want it to, unless you have deemed identification with your past self to be more important than building a new future self.
If you truly want to make progress, it is a simple matter to exercise Ne: put in the hard work to upgrade yourself and your life through taking full advantage of all the opportunities available to you. The study guides and previous posts already have information about Ne development. I've also written about and recommended books about how to improve communication/social skills. Your problem is not unique and opportunities to learn abound.
In terms of tertiary loop, the question always boils down to what you really want to do. It's not my job to convince people to want things they don't really want. The resources on my blog are only meant to be used by people who already possess a genuine motivation to change.
Anon wrote: Hi Mbti-notes, hope you’re doing well. I’m an INTP who sent you an ask a few days ago that I wanted to retract. I think I was in denial a bit when I wrote it so it wasn’t very clear. The issue is, I’ve recently moved from a small, very good private school (where I’ve been for my whole life) to a large, diverse coed state school. I was so excited about the move when I got in to the school, but now I regret it.
The thing is, I have almost no sense of identity. I do things (like homework) bc I get positive validation from teachers. Even though intellectually I value hard work and I admire ppl who can speak eloquently and are sharp, I don’t know how to make myself emotionally care about schoolwork without this, so I don’t do it. When I have friends, I steal their interests and copy their mannerisms and expressions and ways of looking at life. I feel so dull and empty inside without someone to almost give me life and a personality. And I’m realizing all the things I took as constants about myself (hardworking, intelligent, sociable to a degree) were just products of my environment. Even down to the fact that I can’t listen to music anymore bc there’s nobody to discuss it with so it feels pointless.
It’s probably worth mentioning that I used to define myself as capable, but I’ve been having bad brain fog (a dietician’s helping me solve it) so I can’t really read or learn things which I used to enjoy a lot, and my memory is absolutely terrible. I feel super spaced out and derealised most of the time.
And on top of this, I went to a school where the lesson quality was very high and I was with ppl who were bright if a bit apathetic. Now I’m with people who haven’t had the same upbringing I’ve had or the same educational quality. The lessons in this school are also more of a lecture type, teach yourself the material, and I’m not as sharp as I used to be so it’s difficult. I wanted to leave my school to meet new people from different backgrounds but I can’t relate to any of them, and I would be able to if I stopped resisting but I’m scared I’m going to lose myself in the process. I think my academic standards might subtly be slipping (even in a less conscious way) and I don’t know what to do.
If I had my wits about me I’d be working harder to keep my grades up, but I’m so tired and demoralized because when I go into school I feel so out of place and like I’ve made a mistake. I can’t stop comparing it to the way things were at my old school, or at my twin sister’s private school (she made the right choice and I didn’t). I’m aware this is partly a sign of Si loop and I should stop indulging it, but my memory is terrible and if I don’t remember and keep thinking about the past, how can I define myself clearly? I don’t know myself at all, and I’ve only ever defined myself by my past actions but other than that I feel so hollow inside.
I have to stick it out at this school so any perspective you have on this would be welcomed (and pls disregard my previous ask!). Thank you :)
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(1) Function Problems: Many people make the mistake of choosing only one of the past, present, or future to use for defining their "identity". However, the three are equally important since they are inextricably intertwined.
The past contains all of the significant life experiences that have made you the unique person you are at present. The present is where you make the vital decisions about who you will become in the future. And the future gives you the direction needed to make decisions right now that best build upon all you've achieved in the past.
Unhealthy Si means misinterpreting the importance of the past. Type development requires you to learn how to use functions optimally and appropriately. There are times when it's appropriate to draw upon past experience and there are times when it's inappropriate. There are times when leaning too heavily on the past becomes an impediment to your daily functioning and future growth.
The past only influences the present when you allow it to. Right now, you are unhappy because you are having difficulty adjusting to a new environment. When people are unhappy, they are prone to emotional reasoning, which means selectively gathering "evidence" that only serves to confirm and escalate negative emotions.
Some of that "evidence" can come from the past, in terms of using a mythologized past to make unfavorable comparisons of the present. What this means is that your perception of the present is biased and flawed. You are not giving objective and fair consideration to the new environment on its own merits but denigrating it merely because it doesn't meet your subjective expectations.
This logical fallacy can seep into many situations. For example, if you meet a new person who physically resembles a person you once knew, you can't help expecting their personality to be the same too. Or, if you've eaten at many restaurants of a particular cuisine, you'll expect a new restaurant to live up to the previous ones you've enjoyed. A personal example: I once watched a beautiful fireworks display with a friend, but the only comment they could make was that it wasn't as nice as a previous display they'd seen in another city.
What do these examples teach you? Emphasizing the past to an unhealthy degree can lead to problems such as: detachment from reality; inability to live in and appreciate the present as is; a jaded attitude that compulsively recasts everything sublime as mundane.
You say you want "perspective" but unhealthy Si really does NOT want perspective because it is heavily invested in sameness. Unhealthy Si is looking for any excuse to justify giving up and resigning oneself to the predictability of the status quo. Predictability is where Si shines, so why give up that glory by changing oneself and inviting unpredictability?
However, when you go around expecting the world to always conform with what you already know, what you're really doing is condemning yourself to living a life of boring monotony. Is that really what you want? If it is, that's your choice and it should be respected, though you should ask yourself whether you are truly NP.
If monotony doesn't appeal to you, then you have to readjust your vision. You have to appreciate that change is a necessity to be welcomed and embraced because, without it, there is no longer any possibility for betterment. This is why healthy Ne is the salve to dysfunctional Si.
NPs are often admired for their ability to look for silver linings and capitalize on them. Would you believe that many NPs have basically said to me that there's no such thing as "a bad decision", that life is what you make of it? A few have even said that they like to immerse themselves in a "bad" environment because it gives them a chance to exercise ingenuity to thrive in it? Where is this Ne spirit in you? I can't answer that for you. You have to look within and bring it out.
(2) Motivation Problems: You lack intrinsic motivation. I have explained this topic many times, so browse previous posts. You keep waiting around for someone/something to compel you into action, which means you are mainly extrinsically motivated. This is similar to the mentality of a spoiled child who expects the world to cater to their every need.
People who are only extrinsically motivated often miss out on opportunities to develop inner strength of character. Unfortunately, having nothing of substance within, they are ultimately shallow people. And living a shallow life amounts to living a meaningless life.
Oftentimes, when people claim to be "empty" or that life seems "meaningless", what they're really saying is that they have no values to rely upon. What is a human being without values? It basically means nothing is important. When nothing is important, then nothing is worth doing. When nothing is worth doing, then life isn't worth living, is it?
The essence of humanity is found in human values. What does it mean to "value" something? For example:
To value is to appreciate something for its inherent worth. Do you see the worth in anything, or do you only see how everything is worthless to you?
To value is to cherish something for all its positive aspects. Do you look for the positive, or do you seek out the negative because it feels good to confirm your negative feelings and beliefs?
To value is to care about something enough that you want to nurture its continued existence. Do you even care enough about yourself to work hard for a better quality of life?
To value is to love something so deeply that you'd make a personal sacrifice to save it. Do you love anything? If not, how can you act in the best interests of anything, including your future self?
To value is to have a heart and use it as a guide when interacting with the world. Living without a heart, can one call oneself human? If you want to feel like a whole and well-rounded human being, then you have to stop being unduly critical (unhealthy Ti) and actively learn to look for things to love in life (healthy Fe). The possibility of finding beauty exists in every time and place. The question is whether you can open your eyes to see it and open your heart to feel it.
It's easy to sit back and complain about what's "wrong", in fact, it's a comfortable place to be because you can believe in the lie of your own superiority. If you're happy in that bubble, then stay there. If you're not happy there, then get up and seek out positive things and build upon them, and live a life that makes the world brighter. It's a much more difficult but also a much more meaningful way to live.
Nobody can make you care. Caring is a choice you make by yourself, for yourself because you understand the preciousness of life, the shortness of your time on earth, and the necessity of making the most out of the inner and outer resources you've been gifted.
Anon wrote: Do you have any suggestions on dealing with nostalgia? I’m INTP. Throughout my childhood, there had been a couple of relocations of my family and up to this day I’ve never felt deeply connected to a certain place.
Whenever I think about the past, I would be struck by nostalgia and a deep sense of sadness, as it seems I am never able to keep anything around me. My old toys are discovered to have been stolen (actually they just disappeared and nobody knows why so my parents assume that they are stolen) when I got to return to my old home years after; just like my relationship with my father that grew so distant before I even realised.
I know I could never possibly regain that pure joyfulness in my childhood but it pains me to think in that way. I can’t even remember any experiences in detail except once I was shaking the curtain on a decent morning, and sunlight fell on the scattering dust, making it seem like a thousand tiny fireflies dancing in the air. When I try to grasp these memories, I feel that they are like a dream that fades away too quickly, leaving me with only fragments of it.
I am afraid that my whole life will be like this as well, I couldn’t leave anything behind even after my death, nobody will remember me and my existence will be washed away helplessly by the waves of time. It does trigger me a bit when I’m told that these memories are insignificant stuff that died long ago, and they are of no importance or value. It’s definitely not true. They are like the foundation of my existence, the connection with my past self, and I couldn’t just forget them and remove them from my mind, no matter how small or scattered they are.
I do reminisce on other past events, however I can usually just accept that past is already past and move on. None of them hurts me as much as my childhood. I think this whole thing is about tertiary Si and I could get myself to stop thinking about it when I’m redirected to other ideas, so it doesn’t affect my daily life much, but it shoes up in my head when I see/think of key words that remind me of my past or when I feel down. I’m sorry for dumping all the existential crisis here, I could easily spiral into pessimistic thoughts when I try to talk about my past. I don’t think I’m ready to develop my Si at this point so should I just put it aside and focus on Ne first? Thank you in advance for any guidance.
In addition, simply out of curiosity I’d like to ask: Does inferior Si encounter similar problems as well? How would it differ from tertiary Si?
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The past isn't insignificant. You're right, it's an important part of you and it has played a crucial role in making you the person you are today. Trying to deny this fact isn't helpful and can make nostalgia haunt you even more.
The kind of nostalgia you're feeling seems to be about loss or grief. It is usually a sign that you are not happy with the person you are today and/or the life you're living today - something is missing. The mental trap of unhealthy Ne-Si is to get lost in "what if" speculation. You start thinking about how you or your life could've turned out better "if only" the past had been different. This is unproductive rumination, not because the past is insignificant or should be dismissed, but because you're taking the wrong lessons from it.
What is the nostalgia communicating to you? E.g. It's very important to feel rooted and connected to the world around you; don't take important things for granted; be a part of the world so that you don't feel as though you have never really existed; etc. The right lesson to learn is to do more to root and connect yourself to the world starting TODAY, so that you don't feel the same sense of loss/grief about today at some point in the future. In other words, don't keep making the same mistake again and again of not fully cherishing everything in your life while you still can. When you're able to successfully exit that vicious cycle of regret, nostalgia will bring you warmth rather than sadness or grief.
Feelings should be accepted and understood. Once you really hear them and listen to the message being communicated, they will no longer haunt you. Trying to convince yourself that feelings are invalid doesn't work because feelings don't respond to reason. Feelings only care about whether they have succeeded in making you care properly for yourself. Until then, they won't shut up. Perhaps you should read the articles about emotional intelligence to learn constructive ways of responding to your feelings.
With regard to the last question, stack position is already explained in the study guides. Nostalgia is a universal feeling, but different types experience it for different reasons. Stack position changes the purpose of the function, so tertiary Si creates nostalgia for different purposes than inferior Si. E.g. The former would be an alert about a troubling lack of Ne development, whereas the latter would be about the need to correct Ne extremes.
