One thing that I do have to hand to the show writers and RR is that they know in very broad strokes at least when it's about the gods (though they might not always get it super right) what a lot of fans want
Let me explain.
The fandom loves Good! Parent Poseidon: the show offers far more of that/at least something much closer to that then the books
Same goes for Hades. Why not remove some of the stuff from the books when lots of people just ignore that already.
The same can be said for all of the gods who are nicer. It was popular and it's (partly) canon in the show.
(Exception is Ares who has only been toned down a bit which honestly with him there'd have been the most "myth" reason to change it up a little more)
That people love super duper evil one dimensional Zeus has been made clear since ToA at the latest (hints of that were in HoO) but even that one had a soft spot for his daughters. So if evil Zeus is liked, here it is. With a few changes to make him so much worse.
Same goes for Athena and now fandom misconceptions have become "canon" or at least far closer to show!canon up until now.
Like ignoring what I think about the some of the writing here, I can see the reasons from a practical standpoint.
Even with the characterizations changed with Hades and Zeus, I think it would still make more sense if Hades cursed the Oracle. In the books, Hades did it in retaliation for the prophecy causing Zeus to try to kill Nico and Bianca and succeed in killing Maria. And even though Hades is far less cold and grumpy in the show, I can still imagine him lashing out like that. (And he was pretty tender with Maria in that flashback, a lot like his show personality.) What reason would Zeus have to curse the Oracle? Plus, binding the Oracle to the host and preventing the spirit from moving on fits to his domain, not Zeus's.
It's just that originally Hades being angry about that still was ONE of the reasons he sent the furies after Thalia (in the books where it was very much a murder attempt). But they also changed that...
But maybe if they keep him being the one who cursed the oracle they make that a "terrible decision done in anger" or something to make him more sympathetic or like the oracle older when it happened (in the books she's at most twelve), so that he's more "justified" in the show?
Or maybe I have just been thinking about it for too long.
Pjo headcanon time: what if the reason Minerva is how she is in MoA (yes it's Minerva and not Athena who gives Annabeth the quest) isn't actually the whole Greek/Roman thing, but Camp Jupiter not knowing nearly as much as they pretend to know about Ancient Rome. Yes I know characters say otherwise but, 1. Charakters can lie 2. So many thing about that whole thing don't make sense anyways and 3. Canon is a sandbox.
Like Minerva was well respected and worshipped in let's just say Ancient Rome to shorten it (Capitoline Triad anyone), also for being a war goddess. And Camp Jupiter is wrong about roman stuff in so many ways that don't even make sense, like say what you want about camp half blood but no one there is pretending to practically be Ancient Greek in any way close to Camp J.
So in short what if Minerva being in the state where she is in the book, is the fault of camp jupiter and not actual ancient Rome. Minerva was just Minerva there, it started going wrong when Camp J decided they knew everything about how the Romans worshipped their gods better than everyone else.
On the one hand I am very exited for S3, the first time we get The Titan's curse on a screen, the angst, more Annabeth and likely some additional scenes. All great.
On the other hand they'll probably just butcher Athena even more than in S1 because it's "easier". I mean she's clearly not the same character as in the books but there were other ways to make Poseidon look good than making her (and Zeus) as of now one dimensional.
Does this even count as criticism? Idk, it's certainly a change that was very easy to sell.
Like I do like Percabeth but please let it not be so Percy's the only character who is allowed to bw really really really important to her (also looking at the "Thalia wanted Annabeth to prove herself" from season one)
I thought it would be fun or at least interesting to make a list of changes from the books to the show and seperate them into one's I like, dislike, am neutral about and I think are kind of unnecessary.
Let's start with the positives:
- Luke trying to get Percy to join him before trying to kill him once that doesn’t work (makes more sense and both Kronos and Luke seem smarter)
- I did actually like Annabeth seing the whole thing
- Clarisse flying home on blackjack
- Luke being more reluctant to hurt Annabeth
- The whole symbols on the kids armor thing (though I to this day don't really understand the yellow for Athena)
- Dionysos being more how he is characterized in later books
- Athena showing up as a trick of the sirens (makes more sense in a show context)
- I do actually like the arch being a temple kind of (I have issues with some other things concerning that later on)
-I do like the addition of Bronte and Mark (though I would have liked some more named campers)
- I like seeing more of the Titan army in theory
- Thalia being close to 16 before she is turned into a tree and not aging while she is one
- Ares comment about Athena talking to her owl
-most of the costumes
- Ares being toned down a bit from how he was in the books
- The Circe's island change and outfits etc.
Getting to the ones I am neutral about:
-Them chosing (well not actually the Priestess thing isn't in any actual version) a version of the Medusa myth and not just creating something from scratch (what they did with it is another thing)
- The change from spiders to the chair
- not getting the bubble scene
- all the minor plot changes really ( I know some people get worked up about those but I don’t really care for the most part. Example: not getting the volleyball game, not having the second race at the end of book 2)
- Hermes showing up in season 1
- Poseidon, Hades, and Hepheastus being nicer than their book counterparts in and of itself
- Sally taking Tyson in
Changes I just found unnecessary:
- why did they miss the deadline in S1, that only felt like artificially added stakes and didn't change anything (well it did one thing and to that we'll get to later but even for that it wasn't necessary)
- The weird thing with at least not Luke's plan inculding giving the fleece back after he's used it. Why? It would make more sense for him to follow Kronos orders if he knew what the plan is. Kind of felt like we went from Kronos being smarter in S1 to the opposite in S2 (maybe so we can show Luke being tortured now instead of later? As if he wasn't sympathetic enough?)
- Why the Thalia asking Annabeth to prove herself? (That is a 7(?( year old) and the only thing it does is kind of undermine their relationship in favor of the one Annabeth has with Percy (and kind of Luke)
- There is a lot of just not doing plottwists or saying things out loud that didn't need to be confirmed because they were clear (though that is not just the pjo show, I've also seen that in other shows so I won't spend more time on that)
- The "I'd burn it down for you" thing, that is supposed to be a thirteen year old, someone the gods can kill with a snap of their finger (we are in book 2), also what child would say that? I doubt even 17 year old Percy. Also they basically implied something similar when he gives Luke the fleece, which made more sense (though Annabeth getting injured worse than she was in the books) and didn't need words
- Why kill Polyphemus, I mean why offscreen. We don’t see ever see him agains so it's not really a difference
- Them already knowing Tyson is a cyclops? (Wouldn't Sally know he's related to Percy given myths? And wouldn't Percy know too?)
- The addition of Alison (given what she does for the plot and that she's only there to make Luke look better)
- The weird mistake of having Poseidon call Hepheastus his brother (???) I know some people argue that that was supposed to be a metaphor but that doesn’t really work either because that's his nephew. And was just such a weird thing to add.
Things I disliked ( a shorter but more in depth list):
- I did a longer post about the Athena thing so I will try to keep it shorter. What was the reason for throwing the way he characterized her before the show out of the window and setting it on fire (yes I know the fandom forgets Minerva exist and was the one to send Annabeth on the quest in MoA and that Athena has like two/three minor appearances in the 2 last HoO books and only one of these is real life, but I thought the author would remember that) (Let's ignore that Rick could have done more with the Athena/Minerva split in the books too) But no. We're going to make her (and Zeus) so much worse to make Poseidon look better. For som reason. Or maybe Annabeth really cannot have anyone else but Percy? Or because we need more Annabeth angst? Also none of that was even necessary plot wise. They already decided to go more with ToA Zeus and he's the king of the gods.
- Also the way they draw the worst paralell between Annabeth and Medusa (whose bad Idea was that?) and just ignore any and all Poseidon had to that myth after one episode by having him save/help Percy.
- Alison only being there to make Luke look better and push his worst book 2 traits onto her is also weird, maybe a bit sexist. Because that's the sole purpose she was made for (someone made a comparison to Zuko and Azula on another post, but well Azula was not a character added to an adaptation with the sole purpose of making a male character look better and she was actually competent, scary and had depth/ a characterization. Alison has none of that)
- Zeus starting in S1 with him being about to kill Percy (only added to give Poseidon another moment to shine because the ones we already got weren't enough) and then just pushing any bad thing Hades might have done onto him (I have worries that they might do the same with the oracle curse) and also the Thalia change was literally just there for shock and because a lot of people like very evil Zeus (and Athena because who needs nuance)
- Also with how Athena/Zeus get blamed for things that weren't their fault but Poseidon/Hades fault or at least the faults of both of them and new things added to them to make them worse while the other gods are varying degrees nicer is weird in and of itself and also feels icky given the casting. (It honestly feels sometimes more like fandom perception than the actual books, because even ToA Zeus is a softer towards his daughters and show Athena is just fandom Athena and the worst modern perception of her)
(- Given how fandoms are we also know that most people aren't going to ignore or excuse their actions and write them as "good" parents anyways (like they did with many other gods in the books), also because they are (sorry for the comparison) not Anakin Skywalker. I think the point should be obvious)
Also while I do not personally have many issues with show Sally other people do and have written at length about it but another reason I didn't mention it is because the vast majority of the pjo fandom does not despise/hate Sally. The same is not true for Athena and wasn't even the case before the show came out (when it had far less of a basis and was mostly just double standards and not rereading stuff)
If anyone wants to add something feel free to do so or if someone wants to discuss something.
There's still one change in S2 that I am confused about and I don't mean angry or mad, just confused.
It's about Thalia; not the Zeus change you all know my opinion on that.
It's about Luke not knowing that the fleece could bring back Thalia. When in the books it outright stated that Kronos plan was to bring Thalia back (by Chiron) and even before that implied (Luke offers to give it back to them after he is done with it) that Luke knows about the Thalia thing (and that they get away rather easily) that her being brought back is part of the plan. Because she's another possible child of prophecy and possibly easier to convince than Percy.
I am assuming they probably wanted to give Annabeth the realization but she could have still had that even if it was part of Luke's plan.
Also given how more sympathetic they made Luke and toned him down it's weird to not add the Thalia thing because it would have removed parts of the attempted murder thing. (Even if Kronos forced him to do.) As in it wouldn't have been the actual plan. Still terrible of course.
Kronos would have also come across as smarter and more threatening.
Also given the Zeus change, Kronos not trying to use Thalia as the child of prophecy starting this season is the opposite of smart.
Though they seem to imply that it somehow was a part of a kronos plan in a way with Percy's dreams. Or maybe not. It's just confusing and stupid to not tell Luke if that is the case.
(Or maybe Luke isn't sympathetic enough in the eyes of the writers if we don't show him being tortured in S2?)
Like we know she won't join him, but he and Kronos don't.
I know it's a very minor thing, but does anyone know why that was changed? Why Luke doesn't know the fleece can bring Thalia back? (especially if it maybe was Kronos plan or part of it)
I feel like I need to clarify something, because my criticisms concerning Alison do not mean that I dislike the changes concerning Luke in and of themselves.
I do actually like the vast majority of them and don't really have issues with the rest.
Like Luke trying to recruit Percy first instead of trying to kill him immideatly, absolutely.
Luke not wanting Annabeth hurt/not ordering her hurt. Yes because that fixes some contiunuity issue the books kind of had concerning that whole thing.
Removing the weird undertones concerning Luke and Annabeth’s relationship. Really the only right choice there and most of the fandom was ignoring it anyways (which in this case was the best thing to do).
Luke having weird (one-sided) anger pointed at a thirteen year old boy for very obvious but not understandable reason is enjoyable though I do not have an explanation on hand for that.
Before anyone asks, yes the "you promised" scene got me to.
So I recently rewatched season 1 of the pjo show and I noticed something that I feel like I have to mention.
Tw: mentions of SA (concerning the version of the Medusa myth they ended up using and a refrence to another myth)
They really dropped the pretense of caring about Poseidon's involvement in the whole Medusa thing after one Episode (while the fandom never actually cared about that, because he's an ancient male god or something or because he cares about Percy)
Also changing Ovids version of the myth to make Athena look worse than she does in the actual text and to make an paralell to Annabeth was also a bit weird imo. And unnecessary.
But we had to portray Athena as evil and Poseidon as a more caring parent in episode 4. For some reason. Because that was supposedly necesaary, when it wasn't.
I know this might sound a bit mean but it honestly feels like the writers sometimes took more inspiration from the fandom versions of the gods than the actual books the show is based on. Especially in Season 1 and the last episode of Season 2.
Also I personally don't really think that there is much care about SA myths in general concerning the show, let me explain. One Poseidon's actual little to no consequence concerning the medusa myth or anything else concerning him being brought up. Or for that matter for any of the other male gods. Secondly Rick Riordan knows the Erichthonius of Athens myth (the most common one) he has used it in his own writing before and has referenced it in the books multiple times.
The one thing important to my point is that part of that Myth is that Hepheastus tries to SA Athena.
So to portray Hepheastus as this nice and in the end helpful and even willing to try to basically talk "sense" into Athena to help Annabeth leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
If I was being very uncharitable I'd say that large parts of the fandom and producers/writers don't care about SA myths unless they can villainize another woman. Because why should we have any complicated feelings about Hepheastus or Athena? Things being morally black and white is so much more interesting.
Weirldy enough I am still hopeful for S3 (mostly because of S2) and I will happily eat my words if they manage to switch this around in a good way writing wise. But I might drop the show if they write out Athena giving Percy advice in the dam episode.
Also weird tidbit at the end because I am in multiple fandoms, though it might not appear that way from my tumblr. For a male character attempting to kill their child personally (and do way worse things than show Athena ever did) is in no way going to stop a bunch of people from writing said character as a good and loving parent. Sometimes even half if not the majority of a fandom.
Ok so what if the yellow for Athena in the TV show (yes I have been thinking about that for far too long) is based on the color of the eyes of the little owl aka Athene noctua aka her sacred owl.
Maybe it's not just yellow for the contrast. Maybe.
Or maybe it's yellow because gold.
P.S.: It also took me to this day to notice that the helmets also had symbols on them, that is fully on me. Though do we know for sure what the ones on Annabeth’s and Bronte's helmets are supposed to be? I think they look more like olive branches with leaves then laurel crowns.
Disclaimer I know that canonically they and most gods in general don't really get along but this is headcanon territory here.
We know Aphrodite does fashion and styling (at least in the books), thought the crafting of clothes isn't ( really) part of her domains.
Crafts, which include weaving, sewing etc. is part of Athena’s domains.
And given that Athena is stated in the illiad to have made a dress for Hera once and given how little care is in general given to her non war domains everywhere.
I propose: Aphrodite designs the clothes and Athena makes them. That does not mean they get along but it is a fun thing to imagine.
If none would be an option I'd take that but given that Lupa eats demigods she considers weak I think camp halfblood. At least chiron isn't going around straight up killing the kids in his care.
2. Favourite male character
Percy, I know basic. Even if parts of the fandom really make that difficult. But honestly I like most of the teen characters.
3. Favourite female character
Annabeth with Piper and Hazel as a close second (I know Rick messed up stuff while writing them, but I really do like them), Clarisse in like third place
4. Least favourite male character
I am going to put two here, because they share the spot. Also I am going to leave any villains out of this.
Poseidon, I really don't like him and the way the fandom is treating him really has not helped.
And
Apollo.
5. Least favourite female character
Hera and Nyx but really just how Rick wrote them, especially the latter. I could write a far longer post about that.
Athena gets an honorable mention here given how Rick seems to have at one point decided he hates her and the fandom still makes her worse than she is in the books. (Show is a different topic etc, though my hopes for Athena’s characterization there are few (not none, but careful while still a little hopeful)
6. Favourite prophecy
The prophecy of the seven actually
7. Favourite book
The Titan's curse
8. Favourite quote
Don't really have one. Quotes are not my thing.
9. Favourite canon!ship
Annabeth/Percy yes I know, though I have a softspot for most of them
10. Least favourite canon!ship
Can I put all gods/human ones where the mortal didn't know who their significant other was. Because I really don't like those.
11. Favourite non canon!ship
I have a soft spot for Piper/Annabeth and for crackships I'd say Thalia/Alison would be hilarious and crash of course but hilarious and maybe add some Luke/Thalia to it
12. Least favourite non canon!ship
Percy/Luke, because that is weird or worse Annabeth/Luke
13. Favourite villain
Octavian, he is a menace but so much fun. And in general there are no large parts of the fandom that make him out to be a sort of hero and act like he did no wrong. Also he does before Gaea and the Python mess have some prophecy powers and I do like those.
14. Worst death
I need to explain this a bit more. Remember how Minerva is the one who gave Annabeth the MoA quest. She probably gave it to most if not all in modern times, given no one at camp half blood suspects or knows anything about it. Some of Athena’s kids probably died thinking their mom sent them to their dead, which is horrifying (when in reality it was Minerva, which makes it worse).
15. Unpopular opinion
I don't really like any of the male gods in pjo or hoo and etc. And I don't like how the fandom glazes all of them (except Zeus).
16. Lightning Thief or Sea of Monsters
Sea of Monsters actually, but it is close
17. Is Luke a villain or hero?
Villain, straight up. Guy is 19-23 in the books and if not for Percy all the pain he caused would have changed nothing.
18. HOO or PJO
I do like the main characters in HOO better (though I know many could have been written way better) but Rick did start his butchering of Athena there. Which means it's a tie.
19. Are you Roman or Greek?
Given that the romans actually got to where I live, sadly if any likely the former. Though I do like Greek mythology more than roman insofar as it can be seperated.
20. Hedge or Grover?
Grover.
21. Best superpower
Charmspeak is really cool but it's a tie between that and shadow travel. Time powers are sadly not really an option.
22. Opinions on Rachel
I like her in general and also because I really like people with oracle powers.
23. Kronos or Gaea
Kronos, time powers are my favourite powers in any setting
24. Bianca or Zoë
Tie, do not make me chose
25. Opinions on Bob
He's fine.
26. Tempst or Blackjack
Blackjack is really cool but a horse that's a wind spirit is kind of cooler
27. Opinions on actors in pjo movies
Have never watched those and don't plan to so no comment.
Why are you for the most part able to realize that Rick did not write myth Ares or Ares well at. (Which I agree with)
While insisting that no he "totally" got Athena right and she is just super evil and writing her like that *pointing towards so so many fanfics*?
And instead of following the same route as with Ares or literally any male god she just gets the majority of times made worse than Rick even wrote her to be. (I doubt most people have even read MoA at all or recently, because some of those takes). And in the case of the show, people will come for you if you make any theories that don't make her the devil incarnate (seen that on multiple platforms).
Well aren't gods allowed to be compliacted? Yes, but that is not what the majority of this fandom is giving Athena, it's giving her pure hate. And pretending there isn't a double standard.
The majority of this fandom will ignore canon with all the male gods they like, and treat it like it's canon.
P.S.: Also just please tag your fics right, I got jumpscared so often by Athena and sometimes even Ananbeth bashing that wasn't tagged.
If Artemis spends most of her time with the hunters do people like tell her what happened in the earlier seasons, is Apollo giving her like a bit of briefing everytime they see each other.
"Oh and then Ares tried to start a war again but that wasn't actually his plan"
"Poseidon's son sent Medusa's head to Olympus, which made dad and Thena so mad, well the latter I think more because she thinks it should have been just adressed to her. Don't ask me how I know this, it's a feeling. Also she did something about it but no one like died."
"Kronos is also potentially coming back but Zeus doesn't want us to talk about it"
"Also Thalia isn't a tree anymore and one of my children hates me now"
Or is it like nymps and stuff. Is she talking to Athena? Do gods just know stuff like that?
Also: yes I know this is more like a joke question.
So given that I've seen other people on tumblr ask for fic recs (please tell me if there is like a specific blog/place to do so), I thought I'd try my luck.
Does anyone have any recs for pjo fics that are like time travel to ancient greece/ AUs set there that are more show adjacent than book adjacent and/or ambiguous?
Because according to filtered tags on Ao3 it's only like 9 and I feel like that can't be right.
This fandom's hatred of Athena needs to be studied under a microscope, because what is going on here.
This also cannot be "blamed" on the show because it was going on long before that had even come out, and is even still there with people who absolutely despise it and refuse to watch it (which I could get more into my feelings about that but this is not the post fo that)
With people who prefer the books, it's mainly a lot of things being treated as canon that 1, are just not in the books and sometimes disproven by the text or 2 things that are at best misinterpretations. (Which will get a very long post very soon)
Also there is a weird double standard going on here, the realization that pjo!Ares is not myth Ares is very broad at this point and a lot of fic writers try to write him more according to the myths (which I do like though some go too much in the opposite direction of canon from pjo) but with Athena, for whom it is also the case that is almost never done. Which imo reeks of misogyny, especially when it's mixed with presenting Ares as the "good/nice" war god (which just no and that is also often based straight up on misinformation and ignoring everything about "ancient greece", which I would have less of a problem with if it wasn't a double stanard) (this is about the FANDOM not the books themselves, felt the need to clarify that)
Also in addition to the "book" fandom people love to ignore canon when it's about male gods they like (Poseidon, Hades, etc.) so any "canon" argument falls apart pretty quickly anyways.
Onto the show! fandom (little Disclaimer, there are of course people who are fans of both and there it is often a mix of the two, or just mixing the two canons which I don't think needs a longer paragraph because the points are covered in either part)
Here I'd argue that it is at least more reasonable given the canon (so good job there writers I guess, if you wanted her to be the second if not most hated character), though I'd call it a little weird given how much nicer all the male gods except Zeus are.
Also a thing that I am confused about is the Medusa scene/ part of the change (well more it's reaction to it), using "Ovids" version of the myth is fine (though it's a bit boring to be the only you see in modern fiction), but the whole "worshipper of Athena/ maybe implied priestess" is not in the version Ovid wrote down, that is a modern invention. And imo is only there to to take the focus away from how Athena and Poseidon are both equally at fault for this (if you take the version of the myth that the show takes). Which is not how the fandom treats it at all, and also not the show in later episodes, Poseidon gets a pass.
But I think the main issue there is a great dislike for any sort of theorization or headcanons concerning the arch scene, be it fics (talking about ao3 here, where it seems to be pretty bad) or tumblr or other platforms (not saying it's everywhere and everyone but I noticed it).
Because what we do know is that the writers plan to do something with Athena in S3 that will not be 100% villainous (which I have hopes and fears for). But if someone even suggests that one should maybe not 100% believe a villain's words or that maybe Athena didn't actually want Annabeth dead (which does not mean she could not have died) or that we are maybe missing some important info still you'll get a very negative reaction. Or even if you try to give show! Athena a little bit of depth (because well S3 isn't out yet and there is not much canon to work with there)
The hate just seems disproportionate, especially for the "book fandom."
P.S. my personal opinion but sometimes it really does feel like the show at least with the vast majority of gods leans more towards the fandom's characterization (especially Poseidon and Hades) than the books, but I will leave up to you if that is a good or bad or neutral thing.
