Hey everyone! Celesti here 😆 You might know me as "celesti | ayaka haver" (@celestiabyss) from Twitter!
I tweet Genshin lore theory threads and lore thoughts whenever I feel like it (and if I have the braincells and energy to do so HAHAH). I also sometimes stream Genshin and Honkai: Star Rail on Twitch as a PNGtuber!
🌠 NAVIGATION 🌠
Genshin Theories - detailed, structured theories about Genshin lore; usually take a long time to make because I have to gather screenshots from all over HAHAH
Genshin Thoughts - random rambles or quick speculations I have about Genshin lore; less structured than Genshin Theories
Reading Lists / Watch Lists - just some lists of Genshin references for me to look back on when I'm having trouble processing and remembering stuff
Twitter - my primary notepad for all things Genshin and Honkai: Star Rail
Twitch - where I stream Genshin and Honkai: Star Rail
Youtube - where I upload my Genshin and Honkai: Star Rail Twitch VODs and other future vids
Misskey (NEW!) - another backup if Twitter breaks down! I don't know what to do there yet, I just wanna dibs the username
🌠 GENSHIN LORE INTERESTS 🌠
Plot patterns and themes (e.g. Teyvat's cyclicality)
Makoto and Ei + their views on Eternity
Dainsleif and everything he says
Role Analysis on the Traveler and the Abyss Twin
The Travail Trailer
The role of dreams, ambitions, wishes, memories, stories, willpower, and fears on Teyvat
Domains, mirages, spaces, realms of consciousness
Archons (especially those who don't belong in the Original Seven like Ei and Nahida) and other gods like Istaroth
Any mention of Celestia and the Abyss together
Khaenri'ah, Enkanomiya, the Chasm
🌠 HSR LORE INTERESTS 🌠
Aeons, Paths, and Factions (favorites: Fuli the Remembrance, Garden of Recollection, The Cremators)
Stellaron Hunters
High Cloud Quintet (especially JINGLIU MY QUEEN)
Whatever is going on between Blade, Dan Heng, Yingxing, and Dan Feng
🌠 FUTURE TUMBLR CONTENT 🌠
This blog will serve as a backup archive for the Genshin lore theory threads and lore thoughts I have on Twitter.
It will take some time for me to put them here, and since some stuff in my Twitter threads might already be outdated by the time you read them, I'll also indicate the dates of the tweets and the Genshin version number (e.g. 3.2).
If the thread has content that spans multiple versions before or after a certain update, I'll indicate them as "pre-(version number)" or "post-(version number)".
🌠 HEADS UP 🌠
I'm still very new to Tumblr. Please bear with me as I try to figure out how to navigate the app! I'll also still have to learn how to customize my blog's appearance HAHAH 😆 Hopefully, I'll be able to make a more organized masterlist!
Please don't discuss leaks with me. This includes comments, reblogs, and asks (if I ever open my asks).
If I have Genshin lore theories/lore thoughts that are posted within the 1st to 3rd week of the current version update, they will be spoiler-tagged.
Please be respectful. Observe basic human decency at all times. I also don't tolerate gatekeeping and looking down on other lore theories/lore thoughts that don't align with yours. Please do your best to make the Genshin lore community a fun and insightful safe space to gush and share about the lore!
[Genshin fanfic] The Rule of the Three Elves: Prologue
One would start a fairytale with something like "Once upon a time..." or "In the beginning there was chaos." On the contrary, this universe began when the very first teardrop landed on the galaxy.
The teardrop fell from the eyes of Furina, a bonafide performer and bard, one with a voice so soft and gentle like water. It's as if she's whispering to the world, "Find me."
Throughout all the wavelengths and frequencies that govern the galaxy, Furina tried her best to let the world know that Teyvat's third moon was on the verge of collapse, but she knew that her voice has its limits.
There was a curse placed upon her a long time ago: if she cries too much, her heart will stop beating. So there she was, lying down on white clouds she imagined in her own kind of mindscape.
But Furina knew, that even when her heartbeat stopped, that she will wake up again through the power of songs and memories. She knows that all the people she loved and cared for will also reach out back to her. She just needs to rest and be patient.
So she created, or let's say, tried to imagine numerous fictional worlds until her eyes closed. Maybe, just maybe...she could travel to those worlds like a dreamwalker.
With one last glimpse at the three dreamcatchers inside her room, she finally closed her eyes, embracing the black void. She also wrapped herself in a blanket of stars, and made a wish for the universe.
So anyway the bard wakes up near the shore in Mondstadt, Teyvat. She knew this shore has always been her "wake up" area but something feels...different: this isn't her body but it still feels like "her".
"Oh, you're finally awake!" A white-haired fairy says to the blue bard. "Do you know how many times I had to do this and that just to get you here safely???"
"I know, Paimon," the blue bard laughs. "Just because I've been acting for 500 years now doesn't mean I have the entire script etched on my whole heart and soul!"
"Stop making Paimon worried, okay?" Paimon requests. "It's time for you to actually watch your own story unfold."
"I promise," the blue bard says.
For the first time in forever, Furina felt satisfied with her previous slumber.
'So this is...what the winds have been telling us all the time,' Furina thought. She knew who she is, who she was, and who she will become throughout the whole journey down AND up the spiral staircase.
She is Celesti, the elf guided by the power of water and frequencies. She is the shooting star/meteor shower that signifies the conclusion and the start of a new chapter. She becomes a beacon of hope for those lost in the darkness. Rumor has it that Celesti once saw a smiling face in the night sky, with the moon becoming a crescent moon to serve as the smile.
There was also another rumor that Celesti once saw the full moon above the roof of her house. But that's not all! The moon in question was surrounded by a large halo. Once Celesti saw this moon, she told her parents right away.
Celesti hopes that one day, humanity will come together to inspire each other to help save themselves...to finally work together to fight the chaos that surrounds them. Because...because...
The moon gets tired too. She wants to keep living on to see all that is beautiful in the world.
And cut! 🎬
[Trivia: about my vtuber logos]
Dreamcatcher crescent moon
Futuristic logo with a shooting star on top and the phases of the moon below (I love the font so much!)
Basically like #2 but in blue font (the one I use for streams!)
Author's note: If you come across this story, may it enlighten you and give you comfort. O, noble souls, you have the right to exist in the world 🦋
(Author's note: I now officially declare that this is the right time to post my vtuber lore which has been collecting dust for so long! This is inspired by the Hexenzirkel and my friends who taught me the beauty of worldbuilding and OC-making. Thank you so much!)
For most people, Hydro is either a symbol of healing, longevity, fluidity, or purity. For some, it is a defier of time. But for the gifted few, it is a mirror to the skies.
Celesti was yet another god who had fallen victim to erosion, but in another world, that is. She and two other gods shared a sisterly bond with each other, and together, they shaped the world. Among the three of them, Celesti was responsible for creating the oceans and seas. One day, she noticed that the sky that comes after sunset was nothing but a void, so she blanketed the void with the same glimmer that the oceans and seas have. Said glimmer became the stars, and she gazed at them every night.
But that was ages ago. She and the other two gods had lost most of their power and had long forgotten how to continue shaping their world. They could not even create a dreamscape with the same size as a small room! Celesti wondered, "Why do gods need to figure out everything themselves in creating a world? Will no one ever teach us the ropes?".
While the other two gods tried their own methods of solving this predicament, Celesti sought to learn from other worlds. She thought, "If I can pinpoint similarities between the space creation magic of different worlds, maybe we'll eventually figure out what to do for our own world!".
But space creation techniques were not the only discoveries Celesti made. She fell in love with all of the stories and histories of the worlds she has observed and been to. Thus, she fell into rabbit hole after rabbit hole, until eventually, her curiosity got the better of her and uncovered something she was oblivious to: she was not the only Celesti in the multiverse, but merely one shard out of three.
For a long time, she has harbored some feelings that were familiar yet did not belong to her. She felt the Stargazer's frustration towards failing to reach the stars. She also sensed the Planeswalker's fake indifference towards drifting from one place to another and serving one master after the other. It was like her other "parallels" were resonating with her despite not meeting them nor existing in the same world as them.
In the conclusion of her travels to Mondstadt, Celesti stood before the remaining elders of the Hexenzirkel. Barbeloth spoke, "Your mind wishes to learn hydromancy from me, but your heart speaks otherwise. Let go of the Stargazer's desires, for they are not yours. Fate will help you find your true flow."
If the Stargazer had been born in Teyvat, she would've studied under Barbeloth. If the Planeswalker had not served the Abyss Princess, Ivanovna would've been her master. Celesti thought that this wasn't the time for the "what if's" of those who came before her, rather, it was time for her to release the desires she has long buried and denied.
She longs to witness every story and the intertwining connections between them all. She wishes to see every parallel and break down the multifaceted nature of this multiverse. To move forward, one must reflect at the past and present. And though solutions for one's unfinished business might seem out of reach, perhaps looking at other perspectives might fill in the gaps.
Celesti took a deep breath and closed her eyes. She could hear soft ripples of water from the distance, mimicking a melody similar to the one she heard within the slowing waters of Cecilia Garden and the hidden lair of the Bathysmal Vishaps underneath the Dainichi Mikoshi. Beneath her feet was a still, everlasting lake and above her was an empty, dark blue sky.
Suddenly, the lake began to shatter into multiple shards similar to those of the Mirror Maiden. The empty sky above her also shattered into shards. Little by little, each shard of the lake was filled by a scene from different stories, while each shard of the sky bore witness to events from different worlds, as well as the perspectives of the Stargazer and the Planeswalker.
Once she was satisfied with the glimpses of the fiction below and the reality above, Celesti opened her eyes. Some of the remains of the Hydro power she has suppressed for so long coalesced into a blue orb of light. As a god, she had no need for a Vision, but she fashioned the orb of light into a Hydro Vision anyway. This was not only for blending in with the crowd, but also as a reminder of this day, the day wherein she decided how her Hydro power will manifest once more, and how she will use this to reshape the waters and night skies of the world she has left behind.
"Well then, Beholder," Barbeloth asked with a proud smile. "Are you ready to take up the mantle of Andersdotter?"
(Author's note: I officially declare that this is the right time to post my vtuber lore that's been collecting dust! It's inspired by the Hexenzirkel from Genshin + my friends' passion for worldbuilding.)
For most people, Hydro is either a symbol of healing, longevity, fluidity, or purity. For some, it is a defier of time. But for the gifted few, it is a mirror to the skies.
Celesti was yet another god who had fallen victim to erosion, but in another world, that is. She and two other gods shared a sisterly bond with each other, and together, they shaped the world. Among the three of them, Celesti was responsible for creating the oceans and seas. One day, she noticed that the sky that comes after sunset was nothing but a void, so she blanketed the void with the same glimmer that the oceans and seas have. Said glimmer became the stars, and she gazed at them every night.
But that was ages ago. She and the other two gods had lost most of their power and had long forgotten how to continue shaping their world. They could not even create a dreamscape with the same size as a small room! Celesti wondered, "Why do gods need to figure out everything themselves in creating a world? Will no one ever teach us the ropes?".
While the other two gods tried their own methods of solving this predicament, Celesti sought to learn from other worlds. She thought, "If I can pinpoint similarities between the space creation magic of different worlds, maybe we'll eventually figure out what to do for our own world!".
But space creation techniques were not the only discoveries Celesti made. She fell in love with all of the stories and histories of the worlds she has observed and been to. Thus, she fell into rabbit hole after rabbit hole, until eventually, her curiosity got the better of her and uncovered something she was oblivious to: she was not the only Celesti in the multiverse, but merely one shard out of three.
For a long time, she has harbored some feelings that were familiar yet did not belong to her. She felt the Stargazer's frustration towards failing to reach the stars. She also sensed the Planeswalker's fake indifference towards drifting from one place to another and serving one master after the other. It was like her other "parallels" were resonating with her despite not meeting them nor existing in the same world as them.
In the conclusion of her travels to Mondstadt, Celesti stood before the remaining elders of the Hexenzirkel. Barbeloth spoke, "Your mind wishes to learn hydromancy from me, but your heart speaks otherwise. Let go of the Stargazer's desires, for they are not yours. Fate will help you find your true flow."
If the Stargazer had been born in Teyvat, she would've studied under Barbeloth. If the Planeswalker had not served the Abyss Princess, Ivanovna would've been her master. Celesti thought that this wasn't the time for the "what if's" of those who came before her, rather, it was time for her to release the desires she has long buried and denied.
She longs to witness every story and the intertwining connections between them all. She wishes to see every parallel and break down the multifaceted nature of this multiverse. To move forward, one must reflect at the past and present. And though solutions for one's unfinished business might seem out of reach, perhaps looking at other perspectives might fill in the gaps.
Celesti took a deep breath and closed her eyes. She could hear soft ripples of water from the distance, mimicking a melody similar to the one she heard within the slowing waters of Cecilia Garden and the hidden lair of the Bathysmal Vishaps underneath the Dainichi Mikoshi. Beneath her feet was a still, everlasting lake and above her was an empty, dark blue sky.
Suddenly, the lake began to shatter into multiple shards similar to those of the Mirror Maiden. The empty sky above her also shattered into shards. Little by little, each shard of the lake was filled by a scene from different stories, while each shard of the sky bore witness to events from different worlds, as well as the perspectives of the Stargazer and the Planeswalker.
Once she was satisfied from the glimpses of the fiction below and the reality above, Celesti opened her eyes. Some of the remains of the Hydro power she has suppressed for so long coalesced into a blue orb of light. As a god, she had no need for a Vision, but she fashioned the orb of light into a Hydro Vision anyway. This was not only for blending in with the crowd, but also as a reminder of this day, the day wherein she decided how her Hydro power will manifest once more, and how she will use this to reshape the waters and night skies of the world she has left behind.
"Well then, Beholder," Barbeloth asked with a proud smile. "Are you ready to take up the mantle of Andersdotter?"
[Pre-3.0 | HSR] Possible Lore Inspirations behind Amphoreus
This is my first time actually diving into greek mythology, so i'm making myself a reading list for amphoreus' possible lore inspirations!
For now, i'll lean towards general narrative themes rather than a 1:1 comparison of which character is which god 😆
Might update this post over time!
Based on the trailer, i feel like amphoreus' history has the following themes:
age of prosperity
age of war
overthrowing the ruling gods
age of heroes/humanity
fire's effect on civilization
memories
These themes will be the basis of my reading list!
1. Greek primordial deities
"represented the fundamental forces and physical foundations of the world"
they are said to be "personifications of places or abstract concepts"
2. Titans
the 12 children of uranus and gaia (primordial parents)
cronus, one of the children, overthrew uranus and became the leader of the titans
cronus was later overthrown by one of his children (zeus)
3. The Olympians
zeus led his siblings to overthrow the titans in a 10-year war of gods
12 olympians in total
1st generation of olympians: zeus, poseidon, hera, demeter, hestia
while hades joined zeus and their siblings in the war, he's not an olympian since he dwells in the underworld
4. Ages of Man
gold, silver, bronze, heroic, iron
the golden age was an age of prosperity
later ages (except heroic) showed the deterioration of humanity
WHAT IF:
amphoreus titans = start of reign: golden age???
chrysos heirs = heroic age???
5. Elysium
a.k.a. elysian fields/plains
"...those chosen by the gods, the righteous, and the heroic...would remain at the Elysian Fields after death, to live a blessed and happy afterlife..."
6. Prometheus
god of fire
"is best known for defying the Olympian gods by taking fire from them and giving it to humanity in the form of technology, knowledge and, more generally, civilization."
*NOTE: flames and flame-chasing were mentioned in the trailer
7. Mnemosyne
goddess of memory
"memory was so important and basic to the oral culture of the Greeks that they deemed her one of the essential building blocks of civilization in their creation myth."
*NOTE: amphoreus plot = recording memories/history as stories???
[MY THOUGHTS ON TWITTER BEING DOWN + MY CURRENT PLANS FOR OTHER PLATFORMS 🐦]
Hi everyone! As many of you might have experienced, Twitter has not been loading tweets for many hours for a lot of users (me included) due to the so-called "rate-limited" mechanic that doesn't make any sense. At the time of this writing, I could no longer see tweets majority of the time from my main account, so the situation at hand makes me even more pessimistic on the future of Twitter.
A good chunk of you probably knows by now that I've been active in Twitter as celestiabyss for over two years now. It is the platform where I started sharing my theories and thoughts about Genshin lore, and it is where I got to see many fellow lore enthusiasts that inspire me to this day.
Twitter isn't perfect, but ever since a certain someone bought the platform, things started to get really messy. Unnecessary features got added in while necessary features were removed. Twitter Moments, for example, was the only feature that was close enough to being an organized archive. You might have seen me use this before to compile my lore tweets and theories. Around November last year, the Twitter Moments feature could no longer be updated with new tweets, and this was the reason why I barely wrote long lore threads ever since then.
A lot of problems continued to emerge and threaten the stability of the platform 'til this day. Despite the social chaos of Twitter, it couldn't be denied that Twitter has -- or used to have -- certain functionalities and accessibilities that helped a lot of people connect to online communities such as fandoms much easier whether as lurkers or active users. Twitter is in no way "better" than Tumblr, Reddit, Discord, and the like, but it does offer something that other platforms do not have. This is why it's such a shame that the platform has been dying a slow death ever since Spiral Abyss man had the audacity to buy it and ruin it.
I will not deny that branching out to as many other platforms and other social media as possible is one of the strategies that many content creators use to reach many people. While it is inevitable for me to adopt this strategy too, it still pains me to see my primary platform in shambles and potentially losing connection to the communities I've come to love. The incompetence of the Spiral Abyss man is killing many communities that rely on this platform.
1. Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/celestiabyss)
There is such a high learning curve for me when learning extra platforms such as Tumblr and Discord, which is why these two have been collecting dust for so long. I do have Twitch and Youtube as my other more active platforms though, and as someone who just started streaming months ago, it will be a challenge for me to rely mostly on these two alone to reach you. I will see what I can do to better inform everyone of when I'm streaming. But for now, pls keep an eye out on my other platforms. All of them use the "celestiabyss" username:
- I will still be streaming there starting this week once I finish my uni stuff and recover from my sickness this week. Target return date will be on JULY 5 AT 10 PM GMT+8. Please check the Profile tab and Schedule tab of my page for sched announcements.
2. Youtube (youtube.com/@celestiabyss) - All Twitch VODs and future content will still be uploaded here. Twitch stream schedules and other announcements will also be announced through my Youtube channel's Community posts. I currently do not have plans to stream on Youtube, but if I ever feel like learning how to do so, I will let you know.
3. Tumblr (https://celestiabyss.tumblr.com) - This is the backup socmed account I made ever since Twitter started crumbling around November 2022. It's mostly on hiatus right now, so I'll still see what I can do to resume long-form lore posting here.
Anyways that would be it for now. I need to get back to finishing my papers and recovering. All this platform planning will come again later. I'll see you when I see you and stay tuned on my Twitch streams 🌠
4. Discord (celestiabyss) - I am very inactive in this fandom-focused Discord account since I use my personal one more. But yes, I'm in the following lore servers: (1) Khaenri'ah Lore Project and (2) Coffee and Culture. I'm also in GenshinSupportClub's server. I haven't checked them in a long time though and I have yet to learn how to fully navigate these servers. To all my Twitter mutuals who I have gotten to interact with through Genshin and HSR lore tweets: pls let me know if you have a server too (LET ME INNNN 😆).
I've been so inactive here and I haven't archived a lot of the Genshin lore threads and tweets that I want to back up, so let me bring you up to speed on what lore shenanigans I've been doing ever since January 2023 🌠
So yeah...I stream now as a PNGtuber 😆
I still couldn't believe it myself tbh HAHAH 😆 I started streaming on Twitch last January 31, 2023. And ever since then, I've been doing Genshin streams almost every week (mostly weekend streams). I stream as a PNGtuber, a kind of Vtuber that uses a PNG model. I also upload all of my Twitch VODs on my Youtube channel so you can still watch/listen to them anytime 🌠
I mostly focus on anything that's lore-related: archon quests, story quests, main stories of limited-time events, world quests, in-game lore texts, character profiles, analyses on trailers/cutscenes/livestreams, and making powerpoints about any lore topic I find interesting! Also yes, I just concluded my first ever lore powerpoint stream series, the Hexenzirkel Powerpoint Series, last April 🌠
Now with the recent release of Honkai: Star Rail, I've been streaming Star Rail too. I've never been in any of the closed betas so experiencing the game for the first time has been so amazing! I'm still in the very early parts of the main story (I just set foot on Jarilo-VI) so it might take a while for me to do deeper lore dives. But oh my god, I really love the lore behind aeons, paths, and factions 🌠
I still have yet to decide what I'm gonna do with my Tumblr going forward, but I'll most likely do the following for both Genshin and Star Rail when I have more time + when I feel like it:
Continue archiving as many lore tweets (lore theory threads/lore thoughts) as I can (if they don't reach the tumblr pic limit, that is 😭)
Making lists of any lore references that I use for my streams (e.g. Genshin wiki entries, official Genshin videos, lore tweets made by other lore theorists)
When do I stream?
I stream on Saturdays or Sundays at 10 PM GMT+8, but I add extra streams whenever I have more free time.
However, I only have 2 streams remaining this May, and I'll be taking a stream break in June to focus more on my university's finals season.
START OF STREAM BREAK: May 29
I still have yet to figure out whether or not I'll be free to do multiple streams in a week (instead of just streaming on weekends). It's all gonna depend on the fate of my finals season 😆
STREAMS RESUME ON: July 1
But until then, feel free to stop by on my remaining streams this May when you can and I'll see you in July again after the break! You may also check out my Twitch VODs on Youtube + see me screaming about lore and characters in Twitter 😆 Thank you so much for everyone's support, whichever platform you may be in 🌠
Platforms
Twitch
Youtube
Hi, I'm Celesti! A casual Genshin lore theorist in Twitter, a Honkai: Star Rail player, and a PNGtuber who recently started streaming on Twi
Area estimates of Teyvat as of Genshin Impact version 3.3: The Chasm (above ground) subregion of Liyue and the Dharma Forest subregion of Sumeru
This is my first long post regarding Genshin worldbuilding this year!
Here are various links to the writeup:
Reddit(r/Genshin_Lore) | Reddit(r/Genshin_Impact) | PDF
I paste here a copy of the abstract:
This is a continuation of the area and elevation estimates of various locations in Teyvat, following a line of work that started with areas accessible in Genshin Impact version 2.2 regarding analysis of in-game size and speculative in-lore size based on semi-historical and geographical details mentioned in the 2021 Moonchase Festival. The method is mainly a pixel to in-game then hypothetical in-lore direct conversion further compared with areas or phenomena that have similar magnitudes in real life. This study added area approximations for the above ground Chasm and Dharma Forest, Sumeru. The calculated sizes were briefly analyzed with respect to other regions in Teyvat and more extensively with respect to various real life places, institutions, and phenomena. The hypothetical in-lore size of the above ground Chasm was analyzed as an impact crater and was found to be comparable to some of the largest impact events on Earth. The in-game Chasm was similar to medium to large scale open-pit mines in real life. In a similar fashion, Dharma Forest and
its various subareas were compared to various forests, cities, and academic institutions in real life, with emphasis on comparisons mostly with SSWANA countries. Overall I find that this particular conjectured in-lore conversion factor coupled with the hypothetical
qualitative interpretation remains to be one reliable way to consistently resize the world of Genshin impact from in-game to plausibly realistic in-lore dimensions.
Cyno Lore in his demo: he's a cop and he likes justice
Cyno Lore in Archon Quest: He was a cop until he realized that the Akademiya is up to something and left for justice
Cyno Lore in Story Quest: he's back to being a cop and it's a rough job ig but justice is important
Cyno Lore in the limited time event Windblume that takes place in Mondstat where he just happened to be visiting for a vacation: With the spirit of Hermanubis and his background as a dessert dweller he could have very well be subjected as a an experiment among those of the Akademiya. However through the compassion of a certain professor he was given the tools he needed to be one of the very few desert children that had received education while learning a way to control the ancient power that had once caused him great misery and strife. Driven by his strong sense of justice and through his professors help, he then became the General Mahamatra though he still faces the blatant discrimination due to his background leading him to have a tough exterior with very little genuine connection to anyone. Also, he thinks TCG is really rad and goes out of his way to share this hobby as a way of growing closer to someone.
I CANNOT stop laughing the fact that kaeya as a little kid SHIPPED himself back to where he thought khaenri’ah was because he read it in a book 😭😭😭he’s so SILLY imagine this tiny malnourished kid with fancy clothes on ur fuckin ship carrying goods across the sea with the most determined little face and then his adoptive dad goes ALL the way to sumeru to pick his ass up and drag him back to mond 😭 this was the route they had to take
Three:
Triquetra
Moon sisters
"Rule of Three"
Triskelion
Kujou Clan Crest
Symbol of Inazuma Shogunate
Three God Kings
Four:
Solomon's knot
Four Shades
Four-pointed star- Primogem, Treasure Hoaders symbol.
These things:
Five:
Phanes and the Four Shades
Sakura Petal
Six:
Six Pygmies
Six cardinal sins
Six Darshans
Six constellations
'Six acts'
Seven:
Pale Princess and the Six Pygmies.
Hexenzirkel -seven chairs.
Seven archons.
Qiqi's name in CN
Seven Elements
1 Character + Six Constellation
Seven Pillars
Seven Sovereigns
Seven Nations
Eight:
Hexenzirkel Members
Prologue + Six acts + ??? act
[Patch 3.3]: On Dreams, the Abyss, Forbidden Knowledge, and Wish Fulfillment
So basically I was reading for another theory about automatons and the uncanny in Genshin, but ended up with some separate-but-related ideas that grew legs and a tail and is now this post. Today I’d like to discuss how Freud’s psychoanalytic theory of dream interpretation provides a framework to help us understand what the Abyss is, what Irminsul edits do to reality, and what forbidden knowledge might be. If you are not caught up on the 3.3 Interlude Archon Quest (Inversion of Genesis), Nahida’s Story Quest, Aranyaka, or Perilous Trail, do not read any further!
(As a side note: I will be simplifying Freud out of necessity, but I hope that in the process I am not butchering him. Corrections on how the information is presented and applied are welcome!)
Psychoanalysis 101 - On Freud’s Theory of Dream Interpretation
Though it may seem unrelated, in order to begin to understand Freud’s conception of dreams it is actually useful to start with his theory on the psychology of errors. This theory is more commonly known as the “Freudian slip,” the accidental voicing of an unconscious thought often (though not exclusively) through substituting one word for another.
Freud believed that errors occur when two different tendencies “collide” with one another in the process of communicating. The error is not a result of the interrupting tendency triumphing over the other, but is rather the compromise produced between the two tendencies in their collision. For example, I’m talking to someone I don’t particularly like and have to express some politeness to them, but my sentence comes out wrong and includes a more hostile word than I originally intended - the error betrays that my true feelings are not amiable toward this person, but the error in and of itself is not the true expression of my feelings, just a hint toward them.
Importantly, you do not have to be consciously aware of the thought or feeling that produces an error such as in the above example in order for the error to exist. We don’t even have to acknowledge that thought as our true feelings in order for it to serve as the error’s origin. As a psychoanalyst, this angle is crucial to Freud. The unconscious is the realm of the repressed, and to psychoanalysts it is where our most honest thoughts and feelings reside. I don’t have to acknowledge to myself that my feelings towards someone are less than positive for those negative feelings to still exist. I can even actively deny those feelings, suppressing them in favor of less critical thoughts. But I can’t just delete my feelings - they persist, festering in my unconscious mind.
Having understood this, we can approach Freud’s theory of dream interpretation with some important context and clarity. He theorized that dreams work very similarly to errors, in that the dream is the result of an interrupting stimulus or stimuli acting upon the body’s “tendency” to sleep, and the dream is a compromise between the two tendencies in order to protect sleep. Freud acknowledges the way that external stimuli such as noises manifest in a dream, but focuses his theory on the internal stimuli that act on the sleeping body in a hope to disturb sleep – namely, thoughts and feelings, most of which are repressed by our unconscious. Freud also acknowledges somatic stimuli as interrupting sleep, but does not elaborate on them in his theory of dreams.
Freud believed the manifest dream content, the images that you’re shown in a dream, are a result of the latent dream thought, the unconscious thought disturbing your sleep, being transformed by the dream-censor through a process known as the dream-work.
The dream-censor disguises the latent dream thought in the manifest dream content, distorting it’s true meaning to the point that is unrecognizable. At least, in dreams that do not fall under what Freud called infantile type dreams (and we’ll discuss this type in just a minute). So, the dream-censor protects the ego from the unconscious thought through distortion. In order to arrive at the true meaning of a dream, the dreamer must freely associate the manifest dream content with other things in order to decipher the distortion and identify the latent dream thought. With me so far?
Freud also thought there were different types of dreams, one of which is the infantile dream. These dreams have very little distortion between the latent dream thought and the manifest dream content, though distortion is still present. An example he gives is of a little girl who dreamt of sailing a boat on the lake - she had sailed with her family the previous day, but their time sailing ended before she would have liked. The latent dream thought behind her dream, then, was “I would like to sail on the lake,” transformed into “I am sailing on the lake” in the manifest dream content. Freud thought infantile dreams held key information about the nature of dreams in general, which he hypothesized was wish-fulfillment. He believed that wish-fulfillment was central to all kinds of dreams, even what he called anxiety dreams, but that this idea is most evident when examining simpler dreams with little distortion. In the case of anxiety dreams, he asserts that they cause an anxious feeling precisely because the wish underlying them is one that we reject and repress, but it is so strong that the dream-censor fails to censor it fully.
We’re nearly done here, but this last idea is very important. The dream-censor effectively rejects the wishes and thoughts dredged up from the unconscious again by transforming them in the dream-work into something unrecognizable. Freud then asks, well, why is it that these rejected wishes only express themselves at night? Freud hypothesizes that the mind’s censorship is strongest during the day, but at night the censorship is “suspended, or at least very much weakened” (229) in favor of sleep, allowing these wishes to express themselves at all.
Aru: They are what the Jibashiri call the Shades of Tokoyo. But bear in mind the principle that “to know sin is to be free of it.” Do not tell them that they are afterimages.
So, let’s summarize this:
Freud thought dreams are a compromise between continued sleep and stimuli that would otherwise disturb sleep.
He maintains that when the stimulus is mental, it is dredged from the unconscious and censored into illusions that obscure the original meaning of the thought to protect the ego and make the thought incomprehensible.
He also thought that behind this mental stimulus is a wish seeking fulfillment, which is partially accomplished through the dream.
However, the dream cannot truly resolve the wish. The thought, therefore, persists in the unconscious until it is worked through in the conscious life (like through talk therapy).
Rejected wishes express themselves at night because this is the time the censorship is weakest.
While Freud’s theory is far from watertight, and the following applications to Genshin will also not be 1:1, I hope this can be a useful tool in some cases for trying to understand some of the concepts discussed in the intro. Without further ado,
Theory #1: The “chaotic space” beneath the Chasm behaves like a dream.
Now, I very well could just refer to Paimon’s dialogue in Nahida’s story quest stating that “dreams are chaotic,” then refer to the repetition in Perilous Trail of the term “chaotic space” and call it a day, and frankly I think there’s sufficient supporting evidence in the rest of Nahida’s story quest and Aranyaka to render this an acceptable choice, but I also think it’s useful to review all of the ways the space beneath the Chasm does reflect a dream space according to Freud’s theory of dreams, if for no other reason than to extrapolate these findings to other quests.
From the minute that the Traveler, Paimon, Yelan, Yanfei, Itto, and Shinobu fall into the chaotic space, things are not quite right. They notice that their sense of time past differs significantly amongst each other and their bodies seem to be in a “suspended” state, not accumulating fatigue or hunger. What’s more, some of them report strange sightings - fissures that appear and disappear, items that vanish, people that vanish. Illusions. They even stumble upon a strange room after falling through a fissure that shows them an unpleasant or anxiety-inducing thought specific to them, one that they all would “wish to avoid.” What’s going on here?
“All the things that we wish to avoid.”
Let’s start with the strange room, and interpret the illusions as if they were dreams. We may not be convinced at this moment that these are in fact dreams, but let’s see what happens when we try fitting them to Freud’s theory. In particular, we’re looking for “manifest dream content,” which we will help translate into a “latent dream thought” with the help of the dreamer, and through this we should be able to identify some kind of “wish.”
Itto’s illusion is Inazumans throwing beans at him and berating him for his influence on their children. This illusion could represent a real memory of Itto’s - one of the NPC’s is named, after all - but he never identifies who these people are to him beyond their Inazuman heritage, so there is no way of knowing if it is an identical memory or not. Still, let’s apply some Freud here and interpret the scene, treating it as an anxiety dream due to Itto’s reaction to it: The manifest dream content, the Inazumans throwing beans at him, represents Itto’s desire to avoid the ire of humans. Indeed, he greatly fears it. The latent dream thought behind the manifest dream content, then, is Itto’s wish to befriend humans and live a carefree life. Despite this sincerity, he is often met with animosity from people other than the Arataki Gang and the children of Hanamizaka. Itto’s wish to befriend humans causes him fear to admit, even if that fear is unconscious, because the scene from the manifest dream content is what he is so often met with in real life.
Similarly, we have Shinobu’s illusion. Importantly, Shinobu only claims familiarity with the conversation her mother’s illusion is having with her, and not exactly with the scene itself. This is a hair-splitting point for me to make, but I hope if you’re not convinced now that after the next two examples it will seem more plausible.
Yanfei: Your mother wanted you to become a shrine maiden?
Kuki Shinobu: The whole reason I came to study in Liyue was because I didn't want to become a shrine maiden. My family never approved of my studies, so they wanted me to work in the Grand Narukami Shrine after I returned to Inazuma.
Paimon: From what we know about Lady Guuji, it seems being a shrine maiden is a pretty cushy job.
Kuki Shinobu: Think of it this way: Some cats can be domesticated and kept in the house, while other cats are meant to survive in the wild... As for me, I need complete freedom and space. Although I do admit that being a shrine maiden is a decent job, it's just not for me.
From this excerpt, I would guess that Shinobu’s wish and latent dream thought is as she says: she wants to live her life freely and pursue anything that interests her. The manifest dream content demonstrates the anxiety that her conviction in this wish causes her through the resistance she faces from her family members as a consequence.
Yanfei’s illusion is where things start to get interesting. She sees people having a civil dispute, something she often has to deal with in her profession as a lawyer:
Paimon: Who were they?
Yanfei: No one in particular, but it is a prime example of the many difficult civil cases that I've had trouble handling before.
Yelan: Hmm, so you mean you don't like handling disputes over petty matters?
Yanfei: Not exactly, what I mean is that I don't like working with people who cannot let go of trivial grievances, especially of the kind you saw just now. They start with good intentions, but end up making a big fuss...
She then states that her motivation in pursuing this profession is to help people solve problems, but that people like those in her illusion are difficult for her to comprehend. Her wish is to successfully navigate difficult legal terrain to help her clients, her anxiety is that she is not equipped to do so because she can’t understand everyone’s “complicated minds.” Put in more Freudian terms, the fact that Yanfei strongly wishes to solve people’s problems as a lawyer despite knowing she finds some minds particularly incomprehensible causes her some anxiety.
Finally, we have the Traveler’s illusion. It is nothing but the vast Abyss. The Abyss that took their twin away, who they are always searching for. We know intimately that their wish is to find them, and their anxiety is that they never will, that this journey of theirs is pointless - hence the twin’s lack of presence in the illusion.
Yanfei’s comment that her illusions were no one in particular also makes me suspect that the previous NPC’s identities are less important than the ideas and thoughts they are representing. The scenes are not the reenactment of a memory, but a distorted illustration of a unconscious thought. Where these illusions at times do not line up with Freud is that the dreamer’s wish is not repressed but is in fact something that the dreamer is actively pursuing in real life. If the wish is not repressed, perhaps the doubts and anxiety associated with them are. Regardless, both seek expression through the illusions, with varying amounts of distortion.
Are we at least receptive to the possibility that these illusions are more than just tricks the space is playing on the crew, that there are wishes underlying them that are specific to each person and draws from both the conscious and the unconscious? If so, I would like to propose that this room did not just show illusions of scenes specific to the people opening them, but dreams.
“Reading our minds.”
Now, let’s deal with the other illusions outside of the strange room. The chaotic space is demonstrably manipulative in how it interacts with each of them. While looking for Xiao and a way out, it projects an odd illusion of him and his voice through a fissure to lure the crew to the dream room. Yelan reports seeing illusions of catalysts specific to her clan and of people when she was there to find the truth about Boyang’s fate. Yanfei also notes that “the chaotic space” is really a misnomer, as it is really several spaces that constantly intersect with one another and can be directly influenced by their own mind’s wishes. They are not completely at the space’s mercy, in other words.
Remember how Freud thought that dreams were a vehicle for wish-fulfillment? It turns out that everyone who makes it to the deepest levels of the Chasm’s illusions also had a deeper purpose for being there: Xiao wished to find Bosacius, Yelan wished to learn the truth about what happened to Boyang during the Cataclysm, Yanfei wished to find the Fantastic Compass, and the Traveler is always wishing to find their twin.
Yelan: This is a long shot, but it may be our last chance…so, whose wish was it that summoned this device?
Traveler: Perhaps it was all of us.
In this deepest part of the space, all of these wishes are answered. While the space undoubtedly had an ulterior motive of trapping them further by using their wishes as lures, the facts remain the same - by stumbling into the last domain after Itto breaks another illusion along the cave’s walls, they’re able to make contact with several phantoms of the Fantastic Compass, allowing them to navigate to the correct time-spaces to get closer to what they all wished to find. I haven’t read too much on this topic, but my first thought is that this is similar to what it might feel like to have a lucid dream.
Yelan gets her answer about Boyang, Yanfei finds the Fantastic Compass, Xiao learns Bosacius’s fate, and the Traveler is cruelly tricked once again with a phantom of their twin in a time-space that resembles the Abyss. Though the space does effectively “fulfill” their wishes with the added direction of the compass, are the answers what they truly wanted? Did it give them peace, or did it serve to lower their spirits again?
Yelan: I went back to the domain again just now. Although I couldn't find a new route, it wasn't a completely fruitless trip.
Yelan: My clan has practiced magic for generations and has created some catalysts that only we know how to use.
Yelan: I recognized something like one of these catalysts in the domain. Unfortunately, it disappeared as soon as I approached it.
Traveler: Was it an illusion?
Yelan: I think so. But it's hard to distinguish between reality and illusion here. I can't be sure.
Yelan: Also... I am the only one out of all of us who could know what it would look like. To me, that confirms that this place really is reading our minds.
Yanfei: Just like with that door. It's like it's alive, and testing us.
Yelan: By reading our minds and showing us what we want, it creates the reality that we want to be true... Everything it does is either to get us to lower our guard or to wear us down.
Yelan: If that's the case, it can only have one goal: To trap us here until we die. What else could it be?
I would make only one amendment to Yelan’s comments here - the space is not just reading their minds, it is their minds. It is their shared dream. It projects illusions using everyone’s memories, unconscious wishes, and conscious thoughts. The illusions are a result of these thoughts interrupting the space’s influence. Their purpose is to draw the dreamers in further, luring them deeper into the space so it can continue its tendency to consume their souls.
Without speculating too much off the deep end, it is clear that the chaotic space traps souls and is capable of holding physical objects taken there, though those objects are no longer able to be taken out. We see this from the notes Boyang and the other Millelith soldiers left behind, as well as from the Fantastic Compass. Clearly, none of these items belonged to any of the people in the Traveler’s crew, so the space must continue to exist regardless of someone’s physical presence within it. I would speculate that the reason this is the case is because the chaotic space is sustained by the souls it consumes. Yes, I mean to say that the chaotic space is also the shared dream of all of the fallen soldiers, of Bosacius, and of Boyang. They are all still “there” in the space, wandering as lost souls, as Xiao implies of Bosacius during his fight with his illusion.
Escape from the Depths
Let’s wrap up this theory here, because we still have a lot of ground to cover. I’ll conclude with some remarks on the red specter-forms that try to prevent the team’s escape from the space at the end.
There is an achievement after the conclusion of this cutscene titled Layers of Fear, which I believe provides a hint at what these specters are supposed to be. If we at least partially accept that the chaotic space behaves like a dream, and that in order to conjure the images characteristic of manifest dream content the space would also need to have access to the dreamer’s unconscious in some way, then these specters are the raw embodied form of the fearful thoughts of everyone trying to escape (to say nothing of how they could also belong to the souls consumed in the space). They are trying to drag them back down into the depths, a symbol of the unconscious where repressed anxiety and fear fester. In the next couple of theories, I’ll make some guesses as to what this means on a broader scope.
Theory #2: The chaotic space shares characteristics with the Abyss, but is not quite the Abyss.
In the last theory, we briefly touch on the possibility that the chaotic space is a shared dream space, and that it is sustained by the souls it consumes. The next question would be, if this were true, then what comes first? The dream space or the soul? How did the space come to be? While I don’t have a definitive answer for that, I do have another rabbit hole we might jump down based on Katheryne’s dialogue in Requiem of the Echoing Depths, the last time that we saw Dainsleif. As she bids us farewell before heading to the Chasm, she recites the Adventurer’s Guild slogan before pausing at “abyssosque,” remarking that “this time, you truly are bound for the abyss.”
So, let’s pause. The Chasm was Liyue’s frontline against the abyssal monsters’ invasion from the Cataclysm. According to the legends, the monsters came “from the depths,” and the deepest part is outright referred to as the abyss in several instances in the Solar Relic of the Vermillion Hereafter set. So, why is there any need to make a distinction between the space and the abyss, or to be skeptical of equating them?
First, the space doesn’t really behave similarly to Dark Enkanomiya in the Three Realms Gateway Offering event, which was being polluted with void energy from the Void Realm (the Abyss in a fancier font). It certainly does try to take advantage of your fears, a tactic we saw an Abyss Herald try to use in Andrius’ corruption ceremony (though Abyss Heralds are of the Abyss Order, distinct from the Abyss, corruption affects anyone who comes into contact with the abyss).
Abyss Herald: You claim to be a guardian, yet your once-sharp claws have clearly dulled since your days of godly glory.
Abyss Herald: If you serve us, we can restore your divine powers you once held in the past.
Boreas: Lies... lies…
Paimon: Oh no... Is this the same thing they did to corrupt Dvalin's mind?
Time also functions differently in the chaotic space compared to on the surface, something we can also trace to the Abyss from Childe’s lore - he spent three months in the Abyss with Skirk, but only three days had passed on the surface. But, if the chaotic space was the Abyss, I am not sure why Yelan wouldn’t have commented on the space’s similarities to it sooner. The only time she mentions the abyss is in the deepest parts of the chaotic space, when the Fantastic Compass’s needles are pointed forward the farthest they can go and the Traveler sees an illusion of their twin that turns into a smaller Fantastic Compass. Yelan knows the Abyss well from her own past, so it’s weird that she didn’t mention anything until close to the very end in a specific place.
So, what about a middle ground? The space shares characteristics with the Abyss because it is a boundary, a liminal space, between the Human Realm and the Void Realm. A place where the two realms “interrupt” each other, much like the way dreams are a liminal space between the conscious and the unconscious, much like an “error” produced when two different tendencies collide.
Theory #3: The spaces below the earth, including the Abyss, are this world’s “realm of the repressed.”
The Thing Calling Itself “Enjou”: You mean, why wouldn’t I, right? I’m a creature writhing in the Abyss, and you’re a mortal walking in the sun.
This mini-theory definitely has its issues from the get-go, but let’s take a look at where this does ring true and then decide for ourselves how much weight this claim really holds. We’re also going to stretch the meaning of “repressed” here to deal with more than just unconscious feelings, but also beings and structures. Ultimately, we’ll see there’s not as big of a difference as imagined between these things and repressed feelings.
“Yet buried in the depths of this world lies smoldering remains…”
Eboshi: However, the heavenly order seemed to not wish for those who remembered all this to remain on earth. We searched and searched for a road of return, but there was none to be found.
In the beginning, the Primordial One vanquished the Seven Sovereigns and banished the Vishap race to the depths so that it could create a world suitable for its creation, humans.
Later, a second divine throne would descend to Teyvat and war with the Primordial One, who dropped the celestial nails to stabilize the “delusions and breakthroughs” arising in the mortal realm due to the “illusions” brought forth by the invaders.
In laying waste to the mortal realm, the ancestors of Byakuyakoku fell into a space below the earth and were banished from returning. There they met hostile creatures, the “Dragonheirs of the Depths,” who had lived in darkness since their defeat during the mortal realm’s creation. The two struggled against each other until the construction of the Dainichi Mikoshi and its artificial sun.
Eboshi: Due to the phenomenon known as Sinshades, the “past,” “history,” and “truth” of Enkanomiya would endure even if left to their own devices. As such, great effort was expended, not that we might remember, but that we might “forget.” Lady Sangonomiya was of this view.
Another such civilization’s ruins can be found deep within the Chasm, the nameless upside down city, but still more vanquished civilizations can be found in these spaces below the earth: the mural civilization of Tsurumi Island, the Ruins of Dahri (a Khaneri’ahn ruin), and the list goes on. Of those listed here, all were privy to truths of the skies that the Heavenly Throne sought to conceal and suppress. All of them had something to do with forbidden knowledge contamination events.
To return to the topic of Vishaps, the “return of the repressed” is also illustrated by a particular progression in 1.x patches with the Geovishaps and the Primo Geovishap. Prior to version 1.3, the Geovishap overworld enemy did not exist. There were only Geovishap hatchlings, which also had a slightly different appearance before 1.3.
Pre-1.3 (left) and current (right). Notice the major change that occurred was in the eyes. The one on the left may be a newly resurfaced vishap hatchling with eyes still designed for below surface light levels, while the right one has adjusted to the change in light.
From the Geovishap archive:
It is said that after many years have passed, Geovishap Hatchlings will shed the armor that originally protected them and become Geovishaps. However these two and the older, greater Primo Geovishaps have spent many years hibernating under the mountains and have only emerged and become active in recent times. As such, none can personally attest to have witnessed or recorded such a thing in person.
And the Primo Geovishap archive entry:
Folktales hold that after the great "draconic calamity" that led to the ruination of Tianqiu Valley, the overlord of the Geovishaps and Primo Geovishaps was imprisoned deep beneath the earth, and so too did they burrow into deep and unseen places, awaiting their chance to rise once more…
This description is referring to Azhdaha’s imprisonment beneath the Dragon-Queller tree. Azhdaha debuted as a weekly boss in version 1.5, two patches after these Geovishap enemies were released and changes were made to the hatchlings’ appearance. Azhdaha’s own circumstances are no exception to this theme of recursion either - Morax found him beneath the mountains, befriending him for some time before having to seal him away underground once more. In version 1.5, he returns once more to break the seal on his tree and rise to the surface again. Azhdaha is at once two things: he is his own suppressed rage at the ley lines’ exploitation, and he is symbolically the repressed pain Morax endured in sealing his own friend. This will hardly be the last time they will suffer this pain, Zhongli knows. The repressed will return again. Hoyoverse demonstrated this phenomenon through their patch release schedule in a way I would wager was quite intentional, to gesture towards the “feelings” that were slowly bubbling back to the surface.
This is just a smattering of examples in a long list of cyclical recurrences, but I’ve gone on long enough. The point is that, with the notable exception of Sal Vindagnyr, the things this world suppresses are often found beneath its surface. They are things that this world would prefer to forget, something unpleasant that it would rather avoid.
Theory #4: Dreams, as liminal spaces between the conscious and unconscious, are a frontline for delusion and corruption.
Here I want to further explore the implications of a chaotic space like that beneath the Chasm behaving like a dream space, and that space’s behavior sharing characteristics with the abyss. To do this, we need to take another look at wish-fulfillment in dreams, delusions, and corruption. Here we have to fully embrace the analogy of the surface as the conscious mind and the Abyss as the unconscious mind to make necessary progress.
Seeds of Delusion
"We share the same goal, you, your Tsaritsa, and I."
"Cleanse the sources of distortion in this world: short-sighted, ignorant gods and the darkness and corruption of the Abyss." –Stainless Bloom, Pale Flame
Nahida’s first story quest is crucial to understanding the significance of dreams as sites for repressed wishes to be expressed.
Take the humorous first dream question Paimon is asked at the dream event. Ata finds his daily life difficult, so he wants his dreams to be a space of leisure where he can reliably “become” a Slime as relief. Paimon details every time she has dreamed of the same thing, but every dream ends the same way: tragically. This lays the groundwork for the rest of the quest quite nicely.
Each dreamer has an unfulfilled wish that causes them great sorrow, and that can never be fulfilled in real life again. Their dreams are the only place these wishes can be fulfilled, so they retreat into the dream world where the illusions of the manifest dream content can comfort them through pain. This is a prime example of how wishes can become obsessions, and how obsessions feed delusions. This is what it means to “become” a monster.
Nahida: When forced to confront such “brutal” truths, people may break down into tears, talk nonsense, or lose their tempers…
But this can only end in tragedy. Because dreams, ultimately, are illusions, and fulfilling a wish in a dream is not the same as fulfilling it in real life. Underneath the manifest dream content of all those who wish to escape reality is a latent dream thought that causes the dreamer terror. For Ilman, it is his wish to be with his wife and the repressed terror of never being able to do so again. Once the mantle of the dream-work from Beynuni (who functions as the dream-censor here) was pulled back and the dream collapsed, these anxious wishes all took the form of monsters - riftwolves, lawachurls, geovishaps.
Ata: I guess I just want to experience something different. My everyday life is nothing but the same…The sky is right above me, and the ocean just over the horizon, yet I remain caged in a life of monotony.
More than this, the underlying wish reveals something far more sinister in these dreamers, and that is a dissatisfaction with reality. It is this dissatisfaction, the horror of reality that welcomes delusion and Abyssal influence in the mind. Once it has taken root, “forgetting” becomes much more difficult. By blurring the lines between dreams and reality, the dreamers also introduced monsters near the site of their delusion in the real world. Maybe this is one of the consequences of trying to reject the truth?
The Forest Will Remember
Traveler: Do we need to enter the dream of the Vasara Tree this time too?
Arama: Yes. We must erase all traces of Marana's influence.
While dreams are not the only place where anxious thoughts can bloom into delusions and obsessions, they remain a key site for the beginnings of delusion and also for the forgetting of delusion. This is crucial to Aranyaka, which deals in memories, dreams, and the repressed trauma of lost innocence.
In order to save Rana from the influence of Marana’s Avatar, we have to help the Aranara save the forest from its influence as well. Marana is the memory of death in all things, reborn each time it resurfaces in the conscious mind.
Araja: The forest didn’t know death, until a day came when the trees realized that withered flowers and dead animals covered the earth.
Araja: On the same day, the earth remembered the dark, poisonous blood it had once devoured, or was about to devour. The rivers thought of the descent of the sun, evaporating all water and leaving a red world behind.
Araja: They realized that all things would meet their end, and so, Marana was born. It is the name of death, and those who know it shall die.
Araja: Marana urges everything towards death. As for the tall, dark, and warped beings, they are the avatars chosen by Marana, the heralds of death.
Marana’s influence spreads in Sumeru through Withering Zones as a consequence of forbidden knowledge polluting Irminsul. Tighnari notes early on in the Archon Quest that each eradication has a shorter latent period between resurgences. This is further reflected in Aranyaka by the many dreams we enter to “erase all traces” of Marana’s influence, because taking care of the Withering Zones outside of these affected plants is not enough to get rid of it.
Arama: Alright, Marana's influence should be right inside. If left unattended, it will soon turn the dream into a horrifying nightmare.
Arama: If we take care of the baddies inside, the Vasara Tree will become healthy again and thank us with a Vasoma Fruit.
Marana’s influence in the Vasara Tree takes the shape of fungi, perhaps in the Traveler’s dreams it takes the shape of an Abyss Herald. By eradicating its shadow in the Vasara Trees’ dreams, we help the Vasara Tree “forget” Marana so that it can produce a Vasoma Fruit with memories and dreams that are free of it.
Inherent to Araja’s definition of Marana is the return of the repressed. When the forest learns of death, it remembers “the dark, poisonous blood it had once devoured, or was about to devour.” The memory of Marana resurfaces, thus Marana is born again. Once it is repressed through the process of “forgetting,” the cycle starts over. This is not the first time that the forest learned of death, and it may not even be the second time. The source of the forbidden knowledge pollution event was King Deshret, after all. Didn’t that disaster occur before the Cataclysm?
But wait, Tillandsia! If you complete Aranyaka after completing the Archon Quest, the dialogue suggests even repressed memories can’t return anymore once they’re removed from Irminsul!
Arama: Yes. May we never meet again, Marana. Many tiny Marana remain in the forest, but we've defeated the greatest one.
Arama: I can sense that all memories about Marana in Sarva have been completely erased. In this case, even the memory and fear of "death" that dwells in all things cannot bring it back ever again.
Despite the temptation to bow to Arama’s words, we know this isn’t completely true. We’ll explore those loopholes briefly in the next theory…
Theory #5: Irminsul Edits as Dream Censorship.
“The tale of the moon goes like this: this story came from a very ancient dream, one that was hidden in a Nilotpala Lotus.” –Moonpiercer
Now, this post doesn’t cover even one tenth of the material in this game that deals with the concept of dreams. If I tried to address every single thing, we’d be here until sunrise and still going on tangents. However, I want to go down one more rabbit hole before calling it a day and moving on to the follow-up of this post.
You’ve probably noticed that many of the early dreams we considered did not suffer from heavy amounts of censorship from the dream-censor. The distortion between the latent dream thought and manifest dream content was minimal, allowing the meaning of the dream to be interpreted rather easily by myself, and in some cases by the dreamers themselves.
But we’re not free of the idea of the dream-censor yet. Its job is to mitigate the expression of the repressed thought in the dream, distorting it to the point that its original meaning is incomprehensible without dream interpretation techniques.
Well, the two don’t work quite the same way, but I couldn’t help but notice the similarities between what editing Irminsul does to reality and how the dream-censor distorts unconscious meaning. Irminsul contains a record of everything that has ever happened in Teyvat, with the exception of anything that originated outside of Teyvat such as a Descender. Nahida is an “avatar of Irminsul'' and has a deeper connection to it, having originated from its unsullied branches. What’s more, we know that Nahida has the power of dreams, a formidable ability in Teyvat that even the Fatui have their eyes on. Given her origins, could this ability also be an extension of Irminsul’s power?
At the end of the Sumeru Archon Quest and in the Interlude Quest, two major edits are made to Irminsul’s records: Greater Lord Rukkhadevata’s name is erased, and Wanderer’s identities “Kabukimono” and “Balladeer” are erased. While these edits had severe consequences for the written and recalled records of the world, spanning from books to quest dialogue to artifact sets to domain descriptions to even character voice lines, we know from Inversion of Genesis that Irminsul deletions do not split any timelines or actually change the events of the past, but merely how they are remembered. Those who died in the past before the deletion remain dead, those whose lives depend on the consequences of edited events are still alive. Rather than removing information completely, I wonder if a better analogy is that Irminsul introduces distortion into everyone’s unconscious.
No, seriously. Seriously think about what Nahida did to save Wanderer’s past from the deletion. She hid his past in an allegory, and by interpreting that allegory she was able to remember his past, including all of the gaps left in between. It wasn’t a matter of reteaching Nahida and Paimon what the Traveler already knew, they couldn’t comprehend it that way. It was about properly recalling the information by associating each element of the story with something else. Just like a dream. She created her own form of distortion, one that could be more readily understood. Perhaps nonsensical on the surface, there is a hidden truth beneath it. If the analogy holds true, we can locate Irminsul and the Ley Lines in the boundary between the conscious and the unconscious.
The truth is not deleted, and the past is not changed. It is just being repressed.
Conclusion: Nothing Under the Sun is Truly New
Nahida: But in this dream, you showed them only the most comfortable and soothing things. This entire world has been built on a foundation of buried and unseen pain.
We’ve explored this idea of how unconscious, repressed thoughts recur through dreams by using Freud’s theory of dream interpretation as a framework, and we examined how this framework shows up in Genshin’s worldbuilding (and where it diverges). We’ve shown how becoming obsessed with these repressed thoughts can occur through delusion, and that delusion can take root in dream spaces. We’ve also revisited the ideas presented in Aranyaka about Marana, also known as The Withering, which exists and recurs because of forbidden knowledge from the Abyss that contaminated Irminsul.
With this, I’ll propose an imperfect analogy: the Abyss, symbolic of the unconscious and realm of the repressed, contains forbidden knowledge about the world at its deepest point. Though Greater Lord Rukkhadevata tells us that forbidden knowledge “doesn’t belong to this world,” that it comes from the very bottom of the Abyss, I am skeptical that this is really the full story:
Nahida: So what exactly is... forbidden knowledge?
Greater Lord Rukkhadevata: It's a kind of knowledge that doesn't belong to this world, and a form of "truth" that can't be understood.
Greater Lord Rukkhadevata: The world is constantly rejecting it, leading to all kinds of bad phenomena.
Greater Lord Rukkhadevata: If we allow forbidden knowledge to pollute Irminsul, I'm afraid the entirety of Teyvat could fall apart.
I cannot deny the way Greater Lord Rukkhadevata’s description of forbidden knowledge resembles the psychoanalytic concept of a repressed thought. Note that from Rukkhadevata’s dialogue, the problems that arise from forbidden knowledge seem to be a result of the rejection rather than the knowledge itself. Why is this “truth” being rejected? What makes it unable to be understood? Is this imagined destruction of Teyvat comparable to something like ego death, the destruction of self-identity?
Rather than coming from beyond this world, forbidden knowledge is, I think, more likely to be something that the world has forgotten belongs to it, “something long known and at once familiar,” that has become strange and incomprehensible through repression and distortion. It is something the world is in a cycle of remembering and forgetting in disaster after major disaster as the repressed returns once more. Dreams are crucial sites for its return.
What may be interesting to consider with this analogy is that if forbidden knowledge is indeed a kind of repressed thought that the world has “forgotten,” its recursion should tell us that it wishes to be expressed, and that it is seeking fulfillment in the world’s “conscious” mind. If forbidden knowledge was the world’s repressed wish, what would that mean? Hell, what would the wish even be?
Writing this kinda made me feel like how I felt while reading Freud, so if not everything makes sense or agrees with each other I sincerely apologize and hope there are at least a few ideas here that feel useful, even if just for this moment. Thank you for reading <3.
Sources:
All information regarding Freud’s theory of dream interpretation comes from A General Introduction to Psychoanalysis, primarily lectures 6-8 and 13-14. You may read it online for free at Project Gutenberg.
If you play Genshin long enough, you may come across flying creatures that look similar to butterflies called crystalflies, which drop crystal cores that can be used in crafting and such. The crystalflies look unassuming at first but their descriptions in the archives actually have some pretty interesting parallels to some characters/other creatures in the game.
