Liz She/they but I don’t really care Aroace 🫶 Mostly DC stuff specifically Dick Grayson Other faves: fab five/titans especially Donna Troy, Roy Harper, Wonder Woman Damian Wayne Batcest/Bigots DNI Tysm @the-last-starlit-cat for the profile pic!
Lowk realized I never made an introduction post so here we go 🫡
Hi! I’m Liz my pronouns are she/they but I’m chill with whatever
This is primarily a dc blog centered around Dick Grayson or batfam usually
I’m relatively new to comics (about two years now I think?) so please correct me if I’m wrong about something but I do try my best to base my takes and discussion in what I’ve read and what I’ve seen
If you are going to defend or promote: batcest, homophobia, transphobia, racism, misogyny, or bigotry of any kind - DNI
On a personal mission to make the tags “there is no angry Robin” and “anti himbo Dick Grayson” more popular
I’m looking to make some friends/mutuals in the dc fandom so interactions/asks are always welcome :)
I also apparently post about geese I’ve named after the batfam now so check out batfam as geese in my featured tags
Tysm @the-last-starlit-cat for drawing my profile pic of Richard the Goose
I think I'm funny so the ask page title stays as is until someone horribly misreads it :)
My TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@liz_hm1029?_r=1&_t=ZS-96G0NhzcY1x
My YouTube: https://youtube.com/@liz_hm1029?si=QPPD0TKf7JXmJF_r
taking this out of a scene but I thought it was funny so here
Dick takes a seat at the counter. He puts his head in his hands. Donna pats his shoulder comfortingly.
“I’m concerned for your mental well-being,” she whispers.
“What’s new,” Dick mumbles into his hands.
I don’t think people comprehend how much time Dick has spent in space. The New Teen Titans run of the 80s was significantly inspired by the space opera genre (think Star Wars and adjacent franchises), and Wolfman loved cosmic-scale storytelling. He inserted it everywhere possible. So, over the course of only a couple years, the Titans spent cumulative months traveling in space. Dick spent weeks on Tamaran alone. They fought, to my recollection, no fewer than two galaxy spanning wars.
I’m not saying the others haven’t been in space. They have, for crisis-level events, or to visit the Justice League, or possibly for other minor things. But there’s a difference between visiting space and space faring, and I’d argue only Dick has crossed into the latter (barring maybe Bruce).
Can you imagine how weird this would make him? I dunno, there’s just so much potential in Mr. Accidentally Star Trekker yapping about the Omega Men to his decidedly much more terrestrial siblings. It makes me laugh.
It is so, so important to me that people understand that Tim didn't figure out the bats because Dick was a "Show off". Like yes, Dick Grayson is the most flamboyant, dramatic ass man you will ever meet.
But the quadruple somersault? There's no way that was because dick was just showing off. Because you're telling me Bruce Wayne, who's so committed to hiding his identity that he literally acts like a completely different person out of the mask in public just to ward suspicion, would miss the fact that Robin regularly uses the flying Grayson's trademark move? There's literally no way.
In the comics we see Tim explain his deductive process to Dick and Alfred and they're both surprised impressed whatever. We don't see him explain it to Bruce. I think Bruce would be surprised and shocked that a 9 year old was able to put the pieces together but I don't think he'd be surprised that the quadruple somersault gave it away.
So if Bruce was possibly aware of such an obvious give away, why let it continue?
I'll tell you why.
It really comes down to the physics
So Dick was 9 when he started out right? That means the most he'd have likely weighed was 43kgs or roughly 95lbs in freedom units.
But Dick and both of his parents are gymnasts who tend to be smaller. So he was likely less than that.
In physics, rotating objects build up angular momentum (this is how bikes stay up right for example). The more rotation, the more momentum. And objects with less mass build up that momentum much faster than those that are heavier.
Robin constantly has to fight people who are nearly 3 times his size. I teach 8 year olds, they're tiny. A quadruple somersault for a small boy that weighs less than a hundred pounds is a brutal weapon. Especially if you add in the acceleration from gravity as he drops in from above.
And I can guarantee you this logic tracks because Dick literally utilizes this idea, without the somersault, in the 2009 teen titans cartoon.
Yeah, that's right. We're talking about the infamous knee drop.
Like it is borderline savage. Add in a quadruple somersault and the resulting force is nearly fatal. It's likely the main reason Batman would ever allow him to do it with the cape on.
Also, Dick landing feet first on the penguin in the first image probably gave the guy severe back issues
I elect that we have a Conner Kent style origin this time, but where the human half is Flying Grayson — chosen due to their physical prowess — and the non-human half is Amazon (someone like Diana).
Let this be canon for like 18 months or something before retconning it with the next origin 🙂↕️🙂↕️🙂↕️
To add to one of the previous ask: what's your favorite flaw(s) of Nightwing?
Oooh
It’s gotta be self-isolation. Like I talked about in that previous ask Dick is one of the most well connected heroes in dc but he is determined to handle things by himself.
Dan Watters is portraying that aspect of his character very well (I feel I bring up Watters a lot but it’s the most recent run I’ve read so it’s in my brain rn) he’s doing a very good job with Dicks guilt complex and “something is holding me back from asking for help. Maybe it’s the fact that I’m the guy people call for help, not the other way around” aspect of his character.
It’s a really compelling part of his character and my favourite flaw of his
I'm close to constructing a shrine in honour of Dan Watters.
There's a bitter irony to Nightwing becoming more popular in the last few years - it's mostly a result of Taylor's abysmally saccharine and bland characterisation. A fondant version of DG - all sugar, no complexity of flavour, no nutritional depth. Like many other long time readers and DG fans, I have been starved for a truly stellar representation of Dick since Flashpoint.
Enter Dan Watters.
First there's this interview, which made me weep with joy.
I had forgotten it was possible for people to praise Dick without putting down Bruce. And while it may seem that Watters is painting Bruce as unempathetic, all you need to do is read one single issue of Dark Patterns to know that he most certainly does NOT think that. What he is talking about is the way Bruce and Dick approach detective work differently - which is absolutely correct.
More importantly - "He grew up knowing he was loved. That's what Batman gave him that Batman didn't have."
Utterly perfect assessment, and borne out in full in Nightwing #137 (2026) this week.
Nightwing is accused of causing a pileup on the Bludhaven bridge which led to nine deaths. So of course, in true Bat fashion he is beating himself up in guilt and trying to figure out what happened - but he's not the only Bat on scene.
There's immediate defensiveness in typical Dick fashion.
There's Dick being reckless with his life and Bruce panicking out of his skin.
(Hey Dickie, remember THE LAST TIME YOU GOT SHOT IN THE HEAD IN FRONT OF HIM?????)
There's Dick actually being COMPETENT and SMART again, not just some performative cheerleader cutout who gives a speech and is then inexplicably hailed as a great leader and hero without actually proving it on panel.
There's Bruce's usual concern (this scene is so clearly Bruce in a Batsuit and not simply Batman).
(On a related note I'd tell Bruce to practice what he preaches but that's never going to happen with ANY Bat, let alone the prime Bat.)
Then there's Dick crashing out at him - the usual way he processes his guilt and stress.
And this is where Watters' understanding of the Bruce and Dick relationship is so clearly outlined - Dick is able to rage and crash out at Bruce BECAUSE he knows he's loved. And Bruce lets him crash out and weathers it - acknowledges Dick's feelings without once taking it personally. An outlet Bruce himself never had, no matter how much lore-deficient writers like Taylor and Williamson try to retrofit Alfred into a role and pedestal that never existed.
THIS is what the Bruce and Dick relationship has been for the longest part of post Crisis DC history ever since Prodigal cemented the reconciliation. This is what Batman and Nightwing were under the best Bat editorial tenure.
And of course there's the pot-kettle panel, where Bruce pulls a Dick and Dick pulls a Bruce. Also a cornerstone of their relationship.
Dick’s interest in literate and plays and poems and music (he sings). So many forms of art that require talking and storytelling. When Bruce says in Batman: odyssey “Robin… loves a good story”. And yeah Dick really will just sit and listen to Bruce go on about his woes (sometimes because Dick prompted him to) and the lessons he learned in his life.
“I need to trust (Roy) is as stupidly curious as I am” — thinks Dick in Nightwing: old friends, new enemies.
“I could take him down now. But I want to hear more” — Dick in Nightwing (1996) issue 61.
Dick’s civilian cover for why he’s so interested in crimes in Nightwing (1996) is that he’s writing a book.
(And yes Dick’s favorite genre is mystery especially when grounded in real world logic).
I imagine that as he got older Dick is probably too busy working himself to death to read but still, Dick’s interest in novels, dramas, music—that I think was most prominent when he was a kid–teen in pre-crisis—is so important to me (because I too love stories) and I wish it was used more. Like it could inspiration for a career in a no capes au. Something he and Jason bond over. Or just a door for literary references in fics/comics. And/or a flaw. Because yeah Dick loves a good mystery (especially a murder mystery). He’ll even go out of his way to find one to solve. I imagine that would get him into real trouble eventually.
I'm genuinely so tired of seeing this argument so I'm gonna say it
DICK NEVER ATTEMPTED TO KILL TONY ZUCCO.
Did he want him dead? Yes, just like anyone would after some guy killed one's parents for no good reason. But this feeling didn't even last that long! Bringing Zucco to justice was enough for Dick to feel satisfied, even if the pain of the loss wouldn't go away so soon. And the important part is, in at least two comics he admits the death of Zucco wouldn't bring his parents back and that he doesn't want him dead.
Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe I have not read every Dick Grayson aka. Robin origin out there, but I've seen enough to say confidently that the idea of Dick trying to kill Tony Zucco didn't come from the comics.
The first few versions of Dick's origin are all essentially the same; Dick's parents die, Dick overhears people discussing the murderer, and he wants to go tell the police before Batman stops him and takes him with him. Then Dick trains, becomes Robin and he and Bruce capture Zucco and bring him to justice.
Detective comics #38 (1940)
Batman #32 (1945)
Batman #213 (1969)
Never does Dick express any desire to kill To Zucco in any of these.
It's not until Detective Comics #484 that we see a different, angrier reaction from Dick. And despite this difference, the rest of the story unfolds the same way as the previous comics.
Detective Comics #484 (1979)
The story goes back to how it originally was in Secret Origins vol. 2 #13
Secret Origins vol. 2 #13 (1987)
And it's only once in Batman #436 that we finally see Dick, for the very first time, say out loud that he wants Zucco dead. But again, this sentiment doesn't last long thanks to sister Mary. So, by the time he becomes Robin, Dick knows killing Tony Zucco won't bring his parents back and all he wants is bring him to justice with Bruce's help.
Batman #436 (1989)
Batman #437 (1989)
His backstory drastically changes in the juvie origin, in which a juvenile services worker comes to take Dick away from the circus and put him in the Juvenile Detention Center. Because of how awful the treatment is there, Dick attempts to escape, but Batman intercepts him and tells him he wants to help bring the man who killed his parents to justice.
In this version Dick isn't as enthusiastic about the idea, having a more depressive mindset since nothing would bring his parents back, so what does it matter?
Robin Annual vol. 2 #4, Robin (1995)
In this version it isn't just Zucco who murdered Dick's parents but one of the members in the circus as well, Rutledge.
Batman and Robin capture Tony Zucco, but things go differently with Rutledge since while Dick is chasing him, he fell into the cage of tigers and died. But this was by no means Dick's intention nor was it really his fault.
Continue reading in Part 2 because I've reached the limit of images per post.
Part 2 of 'Dick never attempted to kill Tony Zucco'
In Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight, Bruce finds Dick confronting one of the guys who participated in the murder and saves him when the guy is about to kill him. But even in his anger Dick seems sympathetic for the man when Batman starts to beat him, showing no desire to kill.
In this version Zucco dies of a heart attack(?) while being interrogated by Dick. Batman calls an ambulance, but we later find out Tony Zucco died on his way to the hospital.
Dick is not thrilled about it.
Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #100 (1997)
Batman: Dark Victory follows a similar storyline as Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight—having Tony Zucco die instead of sending him to jail—, but the main difference here is that Dick is portrayed to be much more angry than in previous versions of the character.
However, Zucco's death is not more of an accident than it was in the previous version.
Batman: Dark Victory #10, #11 (2000)
Nightwing, New 52 once again changes the origin; Dick starts looking for Tony Zucco by fighting and interrogating criminals and Batman is always there to help him fight, but leaves right after.
Dick doesn't become Robin until Batman takes him to his cave and offers his help to find Zucco, but not before asking Dick what he will do when he finds him.
Figuring out what he's trying to ask him, Dick expresses no desire to kill him and says he wants the same thing as Bruce: to fight and bring the criminals to justice.
Nightwing vol. 3 #0 (2012)
A similar storyline is told in Secret Origins, but this time Bruce doesn't ask about his intentions when he finds Zucco and simply offers his help to find him.
Dick doesn't mention anything about killing Zucco.
Secret Origins vol. 3 #1 (2014)
In none of these does Dick ever try to kill Tony Zucco.
I don't know where the rumor came from; I don't know why some people are so insistent that Dick was a feral child that Bruce had to force not to kill a man, but neither of those things are true.
Dick was a grieving child who wanted Tony Zucco to be arrested for his crimes and only temporarily wished Zucco to die because he had just watched his parents fall to their deaths.
This is all I have to say about the matter, and if anyone has anything else to add feel free to do so.
