Stay a while!

This is a blog for spirituality, religion, and nature. I am 18+ but my blog is, as of right now, suitable for all audiences.

[homewardskies]

About this blog

I am a Norse-Hellenic Pagan, leaning revivalist more than recon, but I welcome and support a variety of practices. If you stumble upon this blog and you're wondering what that means, feel free to ask! I'll mostly do images and quotes, occasionally with little things about my experiences and routines. I am by no means an expert, but I'm going on five years of regular practice with five or six years of learning. This is a queer-friendly space! No Frith for Fascists.

[homewardskies]

"She feeds all the creatures that are in the worlds, all that go upon the goodly land, and all that are in the paths of the seas, and all that fly : all these are fed of her store. Through you, O queen, men are blessed in their children and blessed in their harvests, and to you it belongs to give means of life to mortal men and to take it away."

-Homeric Hymn to Gaea (trans. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C7th - 4th B.C.)

[hbcfjndri]

HELLENIC AND KEMETIC POLYTHEIST/PAGANS COME TO ME! I NEED ANSWERS

Hiiiiiii, i'm Eliot and i'm trying to get into the hellenistic and kemetic religion,i already tried to be a Loki devotee but i did It HORRIBLY (I only had One green candle,no offerings,no sylbols,no nothing,I Just talked to the candle) i'm so Sorry for lord Loki for how BADLY I treated him

ANYWAY

now i'm trying to be a Hermes and Thoth devotee, Hermes because i genualy feel a very Deep connection With him,idk how to explain It,i feel it in my soul, and Thoth because i really enjoy learning new things and i like writing (i Want to become a writer yk)

But idk how to do It well, i know the basics,the main thing Is having a candle, you should give offerings that change based on the God i'm going them to, i should add some sylbols of the gods on their altars ect...

but i still have doubts

SO HERE MY QUESTIONS FOR YALL! (Pls be kind With them, don't insult me)

I don't have any free shelf or something like that for and Altar, all i have Is my desk, Is It still valid for making an Altar?

Do i Need to put Hermes's and Thoth's altars very far away from eachother? (Since yk, they're from different cultures ect...) Or they can be next to/near eachother Without any problem?

For divination, Is the tarot card and dice method good? If yes, I was thinking about using the egyptian tarot cards for Thoth,obvius reason, but (get ready for a STUPID question) are they olso good to use for Hermes too? Before i get another deck of tarot cards that Aren't egyptian

I Heard that there are some Daily things you can do to be closer to the gods or something,like for Hermes you can be kind to like bus drivers,taxi drivers ect... People that help you travel, leaving coins around,greeting him every time you go out ect... Are there some similar things for Thoth too? Like i know that for him i could like write my book everyday and learn a new thing Daily but are there other things?

The candle,Is It a SHITTY idea to keep It burining 24/7? Plus,do i Need to ask the God to light up and close their candle?

Do the gods get mad if i read/Watch things that Aren't like documentaries or classic book or something like that? Like of i play Hades (the videogame),Watch Blood of Zeus, listen to Epic the musical (i'll admit that i used to olso read Ennead and i deeply regret It) and things like that they will get mad?

This Is something specific to Hermes, i called my cat Hermes After him, does this thing Will make him mad?

Still for Hermes,I have a candle that i buyed thinking about using It for his altar,Is this candle good?

Ok so this was all, if you Want to give me more advice for my devotion to Hermes and Thoth feel free to do It!, thank you so much if you answer my questions and have a good day!

[homewardskies]

Okay, reblogging this so I can do a better assist First, I don't think that absence in your practice is considered 'mistreatment' of a God. It's just a lack of interaction, which, if that bothers you, just learn from that on how you'd like to improve. Negativity towards yourself won't help, trust me.

You can worship both of these Gods, even on the same altar (mine is literally on a shelf in my closet, and I use it for SO many). They are from different practices, and I'm only informed on Hellenic practices (and just to nitpick, it's Hellenic Polytheism, not Hellenistic as the latter refers to a specific time period). But you can use the same altar, the same offerings, etc. But the way you go about that will depend on if your practice is more of a reconstruction of Hellenic religion, Kemetic, both but separate, both syncretized, or some other variety. I recommend historical references regardless, just to understand where you're starting. Also understand that we do not have a complete picture of all historical practices, especially for Kemetic Polytheism, which spread over many, many centuries and many, many places. You do not need a candle unless you really want one. Color doesn't matter unless you want it to. DO NOT leave that burning for any prolonged period of time. Fire safety. Divination, from my limited understanding, depends on you more so than them. What tarot deck are you comfortable with? What speaks to you? The little details are rarely important, at least in the beginning when you're still working on confidence. As for your last couple of bullet points, remember that the Gods are pretty substantial forces. They are not wrathful or petty, and they generally aren't personally concerned with the little things. Feel free to name your cat whatever you'd like. They won't care what media you interact with. Etc. You don't need to ask permission to light candles, pray, clean your altar, but if you want to ask, you can.

Anyways, all that is to say, you're doing fine, read up when you can, and don't stress yourself out or else you'll burn yourself out.

[skaldish]

I don’t think people realize just how many USChristian attitudes get passed around in Heathenry, so I compiled different statements and behaviors I’ve seen over the years that reflect Christian notions not original to Heathenry. These examples are illustrative rather than definitive, since I’m only somewhat familiar with different Christian frameworks, but it should be enough to give you the picture:

General Christianity

“The first and most important thing you need to do to practice Heathenry is read the Eddas.”

“You must worship Odin even if you don’t want to, because he’s the head god.”

“The point of being Heathen is to live life in a way that grants you entry to Valhalla.”

“Valhalla is the good/awesome afterlife and Helheim is the bad/boring afterlife.”

“The Æsir are good and the jötnar are evil.”

“Odin is like God, Loki is like the Devil, and Baldr is like Jesus.”

“Odin is more powerful than the rest of the gods.”

“Ragnarok is the End Times.”

(“Us vs. them” attitudes.)

(Not knowing what to do with the the goddesses in general, regardless of one’s gender.)

Catholic-Specific

“To be Heathen, you must serve the gods.”

“We can’t truly know the gods, only attempt to understand them through the Eddas.”

“The gods are distant and don’t care about our personal needs or lives.”

“We must act as the gods’ ambassadors on Earth.”

“Making sacrifices should be painful. That’s why it’s called a sacrifice.”

“Ragnarök is the End Times and there’s nothing we can do about it.”

(Treating the Hávamál as scripture.)

(Using medieval Icelandic law-tracts as a stand-in for Heathen religious orthodoxy.)

(Observing strict worship and insisting others do the same.)

(Adopting a very feudalistic relationship with the gods; lord/servant dynamics.)

Protestant-Specific

“Showing devotion to the gods is done by acting as their hands and feet on earth.”

“You must think about the gods all the time and involve them in everything you do.”

“Why should we merely ‘work with’ the gods when we can worship them?”

“Ragnarök is the End Times and we must prepare to fight on the side of the gods.” OR...

“Ragnarök is the End Times and we must help fulfill it.”

(Behaving as marginalized on the basis of their faith.)

(Reacting badly when confronted with new information about Heathenry.)

(Making bold or even standoffish declarations of faith.)

If you come from a Christian background and hear someone make statements like this, you’re probably going to feel pressured to come up with a counterargument for why it’s okay for you to disagree. What you actually need to do is dismiss the premise entirely. These arguments aren’t reflective of Heathen truths and you don’t have to argue with them as though they are.

This is also not a dig at those who’ve made these statements / done these behaviors before. It’s not exactly second-nature for us to break out of the habit of believing in a specific idea or behaving in a specific way when we believed / behaved that way for most of our lives. However, it’s still worth understanding how specific to Christianity these things are and trying to move away from them.

It’s up to you if you want to point out the nature of these arguments to the people making them. But if you do, I recommend doing so tactfully, with a clear head, and with a very clear understanding about what makes the premise Christian in nature.

Let me know if you want clarification on any of these points and why they aren’t reflective of Heathenry. I’m happy to go into it.

[homewardskies]

See also:

"The Gods are angry with me/they're wrathful."

I've seen this a lot, and I truly believe that it borders on hubristic at best. It's really reminiscent of the specific brand of Southern Baptism that I grew up around.

[sag-dab-sar]

Getting Started With Hellenic Polytheism

*this is specifically related to practicing aspects of the ancient religion not just worshipping Greek Gods. I call this "Hellenic Thriskeía" based on the Greek language name for the modern religion— info.

Please respect Greek people, this is a living breathing culture and language. Do not refer to your religion as "Hellenimos" or "Hellenism," and do not refer to yourself as a "Hellene" or "Hellenist" due to your religious identity. Information here & here.

I am not a religious authority of any kind. I have no higher eduction in classics. These are my ideas that I want to share. This is a highly edited version of an old post that I no longer like.

Greek God = Theos (singular) Theoi (plural)

Know you do not need to suddenly know everything to begin worship— studying & worship can happen side by side.

🌺A Basic Act of Worship

"Ancient texts and material finds attest to its quintessential role for the libation, the most ubiquitous ritual in Greek antiquity. The religious act of intentionally pouring out liquids, whether water, wine, milk or honey, onto the ground, an altar or another surface was performed on numerous occasions" — The Greek Libation Bowl as Embodied Object by Milette Gaifman pg 450 Link

A libation is a ritual outpouring of liquids. Libations were part of all sacrifices but could also be performed as independent rituals. The common terms for the rituals are spondai and choai. The former term is most frequent and referred to a controlled outpouring of a small amount of liquid for the Olympian gods by the help of a jug and a phiale. Choai were poured out entirely and were used for libations to the gods of the underworld, the heroes and the dead. — Libations, Greek by Gunnel Ekroth Abstract

Whether you do separate techniques for "Olympian" vs "Khthonic" is up to you. I don't since many Gods can be considered both depending on the situation, like Hermes.

The most common liquid for this is red wine, but water, honey, milk, or oil are also common. — Link

🔹I’m using Zeus as an example.

Wash hands.

Prepare a glass of water or other liquid

Go to the altar if you have one

Wipe hands with Khernips [if you use it, see below]

Sprinkle Khernips lightly on the altar space [if you use it]

“O Mighty Zeus, King of the Gods, you are strong and powerful. I have come to honor you”

Hold up the glass of water

“Zeus, Lord of lightning, I offer you this water out of gratitude and love. I have given to you before and I will give to you again”

Pour the water slowly either into a separate bowl, onto the ground, into a fire, or down a clean sink.

“Zeus, strong and powerful, I ask that you help me get through today’s conference call. I thank you and say farewell.”

🔹Simpler form:

Wash hands

Take glass of water and hold it up

“Zeus you are mighty and powerful, I seek your help for this meeting, this water I have brought is to show my desire to honor you”

Pour water out into bowl, ground, fire, or clean sink.

“Thank you, Zeus, King of the Gods”

🔹For those of us with minimal energy you can do this at a sink or in a shower:

The above is important because it builds reciprocity Kharis— the relationship between Theoi and mortals info (by @/verdantlyviolet)

🌺 Altars

Altars in Ancient Greece were places of sacrifice and ritual worship

...vases began to depict altars in a variety of scenes. These altars were shown either in the context of standard mythological vignettes that were set at or near an altar or in scenes of cult activities, libations, offerings and/or sacrifices focused at an altar. This fairly common practice was continued on red-figured and white ground vases through the mid-fourth century B.C. — Blazing Altars: The Representation of Altars in Attic Vase Painting" By David W. Rupp Link

They were located in land/area specificlly set aside for the worship of the Theoi

A Greek cult-place needed to be set off from the surroundings, to be a temenos, but also to have an altar or a sacrificial installation. This was the bare minimum for its effective use as a location where communication with the divine sphere could be achieved. A temple or a statue of the god was not a prerequisite. — Rings, Pits, Bone and Ash: Greek Altars in Context by Gunnel Ekroth Link

An altar, therefore, constitutes the emblem for holy ground, the presence of the gods and the connection with the divine — same as above

Thus modern altars are used to commune with the divine, a place for them in your home & life, and a place to present offerings & libations. Whether you want to call in an altar, a shrine, or a scared space in English is up to you.

To set up an altar:

Intentionally designate a space for your worship, big or small, and make sure it is clean.

While this is not necessary it is frequently used in modern worship: Choose an item for the Theoi you wish to worship. Such as a picture of them, a statue, or some other object. Place it in that space.

Add anything you might like: candle, incense, flowers, cloth to cover surface, decorations, etc.

Many Hellenic Polytheists will also keep Khernips (by @/forthegloryofthetheoi) purified water on their altar. Though this is not necessary— post here. About purity vs consecration here (by @/sisterofiris)

You might keep a cup and bowl for libations at this space

You might keep a prayer book or religious journal here also

🌺Further Worship Aspects

Say longer prayers and use supplication, supplication is a natural part of Kharis Guides here.

Offer food, which can be similar to the libation formula. Hellenic Polytheists disagree on what to do with the food afterwards which is why I always suggest a libation at the beginning.

Say a prayer when lighting incense to state that it as an offering.

Meditate at the altar. Let thoughts and presence of the Theoi help calm your soul.

Dance or sing for the Theoi at your altar or play them music.

Read the myths aloud to the Theoi.

🌺Reconstructed or Common Practices

🔹I highly suggest Labrys Household Worship book here is an article that has a lot of the book.

🔹Practice the 3 day new month rituals

Hekate Deipnon, Noumenia, and Agathos Daimon,

Info here (by @/verdantlyviolet), here from Labrys, here from Hellenion.

🔹Create a Kathiskos.

I’m not sure if this is truly historical, see here (by @/verdantlyviolet) however it is used often by recon/revive Hellenic Polytheists. Guide from Hellenion. Video Guide (by @/baringtheaegis.)

🔹Following a reconstructed calendar

These can include regular days scheduled for a particular Theos. Almost all are based off the Ancient Attic calendar. Here is Hellenion's version. There is an app to track the Attic calendar and it overlays Hellenion's festivals/month days (but you can toggle that off) here. Also the HMEPA Calendar Here.

🔹Partake in modern versions of Ancient Festivals

The Hellenic Polytheist community celebrates a variety of different reconstructed festivals. Which you partake in may be dependent on which Theoi you wish to honor. There are practically an endless number.

Common ones I've seen are Dionysia, Anthesteria (by @/khaire-traveler), Theogamia, among others.

🔹Do not stress about calendars or festivals this is just an idea.

🌺Miscellaneous

Practicing Xenia, hospitality, is considered a ubiquitous aspect of this religion see here. Xenia is not a synonym for "social justice." It is an aspect of Greek culture, referred to as Philoxenia in modern times.

Miasma is not something humans incur unless you commit heinous acts. Lyma is the naturally occuring "dirtiness" of everyday life that can be removed away by washing your hands. Info here (by @/sisterofiris)

The "7 Pillars of Hellenimos" are a modern concept created by a bigot and are in no way a necessary part of this religion. See here & here.

You may wish to study the classical philosophers of Ancient Greece

Here is a big list of resources including multiple Google Drives of information on Hellenic Polytheism.

Avoid YSEE organization they are Greek ethnic-nationalists info

Avoid HellenicFaith website for its immense disrespect of Greek people and culture info

🌺Some Ideas for Choosing Theoi to begin with:

You do not need a Theos to "call to you"; you don't need divination to pick one; you don't need divination to "confirm" if you picked the right one. You can literally just pick any. The Theoi permeated life in ancient Greece and people worshipped the ones of their family and settlement.

I’m not trying to overwhelm anyone I’m just trying to give a whole group of ideas for people. I suggest Theoi.com for easy access info on the Theoi but also be cautious of some information due to its age info (by @/dionysiandevotee)

🔹You could start with Hestia because she is Goddess of the home and thus an excellent place to start in my opinion.

🔹Zeus and Hera the King and Queen of The Theoi

🔹A Theos related to your work/studies. Examples:

Apollo or Asklepios for the health care field

Hermes for communication or information technology fields

Gaia for environmental fields

Themis, Dike, Zeus for legal fields

Athena, Metis, or Sophia for general studies

Hephestios for engineering fields

Rhea, Artemis, Apollo, Hera, or Zeus for parenthood

Nyx if you work the “graveyard shift”

🔹A Theos related to something you want to improve in your life. Examples:

Aphrodite or the Khairtes for self-love or if you struggle with body image issues

Hermes or Iris for communication abilities or interpersonal conflict

Hygeia for struggles with hygiene or disorganization

The Nymphai for building environmental sustainable life habits

Sophrosyne or Dionysos for substance abuse (You cannot convince me that his realm of drinking excludes moderation or elimination if it is a problem for a worshipper)

Demeter, Hestia, Hephaistos, Pan, Artemis for any problems surrounding food

Hypnos for sleep hygiene or sleep disorders

Soteria for easing fears

Hermaphroditos, Aphrodite, Dionysos, for LGBTQ identity and issues

🔹A Theos related to things you want to do. Examples:

Athena for weaving or other handcrafts

The Mousai for learning an instrument

Themis or Dike for activism work

Nike for sports

Apollo for divination

Poseidon for ocean or water activities

Hermes for writing

There are many more bullets that could be added and Theoi that could be added to each of the existing bullet points. Especially when epithets come into play.

🌺Modern Worship Ideas

You don't have to do any of these, they are simply ideas I conjured up in my mind that I thought I'd share.

🔹Which ever of the Theoi you chose simply give them a libation once a day with a short prayer. You can pick a time or better yet an activity to make it consistent. For example, do it directly after you finish getting dressed. Do it right before you eat breakfast or dinner. Do it before you get ready for bed. Etc, that way it stays consistent and you always have a reminder.

🔹Surrounding the passage of the day/time. The prayers can be very short letting you do them by simply pausing for a minute or two. You can offer a simple libation in the morning and/or night with the prayer.

Prayer to Hemera or Helios in the morning

Prayer Example: “Beautiful Hemera, I thank you for this day, I seek your favor and honor you with my actions. Good morning.”

Prayer to Nyx or Selene at night

Prayer to Helios at noon if you don’t pray to him in the morning.

Prayer Example: “Shining Helios, as you reach your peak this day, I remember you, I thank you for your life giving light.”

Incorporation of 12-Horai such as Mesembria at noon, Dysis at sundown, not sure if Auge would be dawn and Anatole sunrise—but you get the idea.

Prayer to one of the 4-Horai each day of the season we are in— Kheimon for Winter, Phthinophôron for Autumn, Eiar for Spring, and Theros for Summer

🔹Surrounding daily activities.

Prayer to Hemera or Auge upon waking

Prayer to Hygeia before showering or brushing teeth

Prayer Example: “Gentle laughing Hygeia, I enter this shower so I may cleanse myself. I remember your beauty and wish to honor you with my actions, so you may look favorably upon me”

Prayer to Apollo or other health Theoi when you take your medication (if you have it)

Prayer to Hestia at mealtime or before cooking

Prayer Example: “Hestia, first and last among the Olympians, home maker, I cook this food through your strength and thank you for this flame. May my body be replenished”

Prayer to Hermes, Hekate, or Apollo Argyieus, or Soteria when leaving house

Prayer to a Theos related to work/education as you arrive at work or school.

Prayer to a Theos related to a hobby or leisure activity when you start it

Prayer to Hypnos when you go to bed

You can make any combination that would follow the path of your daily activities; it could be any number too this is just an example. And perhaps one libation in the morning or night

🔹Focus on the “Household Gods” which I linked info above to Labrys' Book. Also here (by @/wayfind-er)

Hestia

Zeus Ktesios

Zeus Herkeios

Apollo Argyieus

Hermes

Hekate

Agathos Daimon

[agapidraws]

🏛️The Twelve Olympians🏛️

9. Ares / Άρης

[templehyacinthus]

BIG Ares Enyalios vibes 😍

[cursecuelebre]

What is Supersitio in Greco-Roman Polytheism?

This concept is shared in both Ancient Greek and Roman cultures and religion. It was orthopaxic/Cultus Deorum of Mos Mairum “Way of The Ancestors” both shared common values, traditions, and religious beliefs. Supersitio is one of these concepts.

Supersitio is the opposite, the counter of the “correct way” of approaching the gods. Superstitious beliefs of having fear of the gods such as thinking their vengeful, cruel, petty, angry and jealous followed to excessively pray and offer them was considered especially to the Greeks as Hubris or prideful thinking one can sway the gods with bribes for their appeasement. To one approach the gods correctly one must not think the gods are going to harm them in anyway to have a trust and bond between the god and worshipper.

What is Supersitio?

It comes the Latin word meaning “standing over” and to translate the Ancient Greek word deisidaimonia or “fear of the gods or spirits.” That this fear is impious before the gods.

Here’s a few examples how this would’ve looked like.

1. Irrational fear of the Gods, believing the gods are easily angered, petty, jealous, and cruel then trying to win their favor with what’s more than necessary is considered to be hubris and thinking the gods can be win over by bribes.

2. Excessive Dependence on the Deities - essentially you place your autonomy and power in the hands of the gods not fulfilling or acting on your commitments and obligations leaving it to the divine or you can’t make any decisions, actions, or any other decree without involving the gods and relying solely on them. There is a balance between the person’s own ability and self control and the faith of the gods.

3. Sorcery or goetia (opposite of therugy) both cultures the practice of necromancy, curses, and spells that involve forcing someone was regarded as superstitious. As well as fortune telling but divination and fortune telling were two separate things to them. Plato mentions that one would practice necromancy would exploit the dead for their own personal means risking the danger of themselves and the communities this also follows to the last one.

4. Believing you can command the Gods and spirits, according to Plato no one has the power or authority to bind a god or spirit by usage of spells and rituals.

But here’s the thing about sorcery….

It’s a tricky thing because the people who condemn it usually are rich and powerful men, Plato was a Ancient Greek philosopher meaning he was very wealthy and educated. The Roman elite was frighten of fortune tellers and sorcerers because they can sway the plebeians (peasants, lower class) in fear and rebellion. The most common people performing sorcery was women and it was a common thing to do among the common folk to go to sorcerers and fortune tellers or practice themselves. But also defixiones or curse tablets, evil eye amulets, and poppets are superstitions as well. It was common thing to bury curse tablets beneath the temples of Demeter and Kore (Persephone)

My personal opinions and beliefs

Except for sorcery cause how it was common among the common folk to practice it was very widespread and I do it myself. The previous mentions is something I adhere to and agree with. If you want to pray and approach the gods you can’t think they will do you any harm in anyway possible or not able to make decisions or do any actions unless divine presence is involved and rely on it solely is unhealthy cause it removes independence and autonomy of the person. Now if someone is trying to command the gods through the act of sorcery that’s a whole different story but as someone who practices witchcraft with deities like Hekate I don’t believe I’m commanding or binding them to the spell and I know others who don’t believe it as well.

Supersitio is the counter to Cultus Deorum and the religion of the ancient Greeks it’s not dogmatic as in heaven vs hell or sins rather it’s inappropriate impious behavior people act before the gods and out of the values that is centered around such Piety, Faith, Discipline, etc.

[divineaphrodisianmagic]

Dear HelPol crowd~

Can we please stop using AI images.

There is plenty of art of the gods, plenty of statues, plenty of fan art, PLENTY OF CONTENT.

STOP GENERATING AI CONTENT. IT IS GROSS. THE GODS WOULD NOT APPROVE.

Thanks.

[homewardskies]

Dear Pagan Crowd as a whole tbh

I just block any blogs I catch using AI.

[skaldish]

To get out of the habit of thinking of the Norse or Irish gods as being "gods of" stuff, try to think about what their occupations are instead.

Are they a chief or a king of something? Are they a protector of humanity? Are they skilled at magic and therefore could be considered a wizard, mage, or magician? Are they a warrior? Are they an entertainer? Are they a teacher?

And if you want to play this on advanced mode: Don't try to define the gods' occupations according to what they do in their myths. Think about what they do in relation to us and our societies right here and now, and in relation to the real world.

[homewardskies]

"An ash I know that stands, Yggdrasil it's called, a tall tree, drenched with shining loam; from there come the dews which fall in the valley, green, it stands always over Urd's well."

-Seeress's Prophecy, the Poetic Edda (Trans. Carolyne Larrington, 1996)

[vesse-moricaleo-lusifero]

How to Recognise When Someone Isn't Actually that Reliable of a Practitioner... A Casual Hot Take

This started off with me initially annoyed by other Luciferian practitioners and how poorly they are constructed and how poorly they are circulated as revolutionary occultists. But it is a deeper issue. So here we go!

A lot of people post their UPGs not understanding that their UPGs only work for them.

No matter how "thought out" the author may (mistakenly) believe their personal dogma is, it only works because they have made up their rules as they go along while experiencing (UPG) that no one else can experience.

Things can be peer reviewed. But their self-made-praxis is not going to be as reliable as they believe it is.

The meanings are rarely transferrable to others.

A lot of people mistake internally coherent for universally valid.

And not every UPG you see someone has is actually substance that's useful.

UPG is still UPG — "Unverified Personal Gnosis" — it is, by definition, personal. It can be psychologically meaningful, spiritually transformative, emotionally stabilizing, creatively fertile, whatever.

But the moment someone starts treating it as externally binding truth for everyone else, things get muddy fast.

What ends up happening is:

They experience something.

Then they assign meaning to it.

Then they reinforce that meaning through repetition, symbolism, selective attention, emotional investment, ritual structure, community validation, and memory.

... Eventually the system feels self-evident to them because the entire architecture of interpretation has grown around the original experience like roots around a stone even if the structure isn't stable in practise outside of that facet.

Now, that doesn’t necessarily make it false. Human beings work like that in all meaning-making systems . This happens with religion, psychology, art, nationalism, even personal identity.

But it does mean the system is often non-transferable.

Someone else cannot replicate the exact symbolic ecosystem because they do not share:

the same subconscious associations

the same emotional conditioning

the same life history

the same ritual habits

the same cognitive tendencies

the same interpretive lens.

... ... ... ... ... ...

So when people (many of which I see in Online Witchcraft Communities) present UPG as though it has objective authority outside themselves, you get this strange issue where the "evidence" for the claim is inseparable from the private framework that produced it in the first place.

It becomes circular very quickly. Especially when people rely on popularity and clout for circulation. They turn into "artistic influencers".

"I know this deity behaves this way because of my experiences."

"How do you interpret the experiences?"

"Through the theology I built from my experiences."

That’s not peer review. That’s autobiographical metaphysics and it's a slippery slope into spreading misinformation, bad metaphysics and spiritual belief systems, incorrect structures. It is the blind leading the blind and there are very prominent figures, especially here on Tumblr, that are not as experienced as they are just "popular" because of clout.

And honestly? I think internet spirituality sometimes struggles with epistemic humility. There’s a tendency to skip from:

"This was profoundly meaningful to me."

Right into:

"This reveals the hidden truth of reality"

Which are vastly different claims to make.

Many of the new beliefs that people may be "pioneering" aren't new. But they also lack fundamental basics.

These popular "occult" folks are not good teachers — not just because they are actually inexperienced and therefore the blind-leading-the-blind, but they aren't coming from a place that is rooted in structures that are reliable and sustainable.

this is where the issue stops being merely "cringe" or intellectually sloppy and starts becoming genuinely risky.

A sustainable spiritual structure is not just:

"Does this feel profound?"

It’s also:

Does it produce stability?

Does it encourage discernment?

Does it survive scrutiny?

Does it account for human suggestibility?

Does it have mechanisms for correction?

Does it prevent charismatic self-delusion?

Does it distinguish symbolism from literalism?

Does it help people remain functional and grounded?

Does it scale safely beyond one personality?

... ... ... ... ...

A lot of internet-occult spaces fail catastrophically at those questions.

Because many popular occult influencers (I do not doubt some of you have names that come to mind) are effectively self-taught content creators first and spiritual practitioners second.

Their incentive structure is visibility, novelty, emotional intensity, and personal branding — not rigor and sustainability, authenticity or sincerity.

And there are very particular names that come to mind that fail these basic checks that happen to be insanely popular and sought after for very wrong reasons. They are looked at as "experienced and great" when they are barely brushing against anything sustainable.

And spiritual rigor is usually… kind of boring from the outside. It's not going to get you as much attention, money, clients, commissions, or popularity.

Real disciplined traditions often emphasize:

- repetition

- patience

- study

- ethical conduct

- humility

- community accountability

- symbolic literacy

- gradual development

- skepticism toward one’s own perceptions.

... ... ... ...

Meanwhile online occult culture rewards:

- immediacy

- certainty

- uniqueness

- secret knowledge

- aesthetic mystique

- escalating claims

- identity construction

That environment naturally selects for people who sound spiritually advanced rather than people who are actually reliable guides.

And you can often tell when a framework lacks roots because everything depends on the personality of the teacher. It heavily relies on the juiciness of the "spirituality" someone has claimed to have developed or the fandom attitudes between the practitioner and their deity(ies) in question.

There’s no durable scaffolding underneath it. No lineage of interpretation. No tested methodology. No long-term community structure. No mechanisms for disagreement except social fallout. No distinction between intuition and authority.

One thing older traditions understood very well — even the strange, esoteric, mystical ones — is that altered states are not automatically wisdom.

This is a severely lacking understanding amongst substance users in the occult.

Visions are not self-interpreting. Emotional intensity is not proof. Synchronicity is not necessarily cosmic endorsement. Charisma is not spiritual maturity. And symbolic experiences can absolutely become distorted through ego, trauma, projection, isolation, or obsession.

Historically, many traditions built entire systems around containing that danger.

Because humans are extraordinarily good at convincing ourselves that meaning equals truth. And this is something that is severely lacking in some content creators I see and even follow.

A grounded teacher — or grounded system — knows how to slow things down. Recontextualize. Encourage reality-testing. Maintain proportionality.

And you absolutely can create your own systems that are grounded! You don't have to be a "sensational content creator." Smut shouldn't be what makes you "experienced". Attention ≠ Skilled and Knowledgeable.

Ironically, truly mature and experienced spiritual traditions and practitiors often become less sensational over time, not more. They tend to develop caution. Nuance. Restraint. A recognition that the human mind is both wondrous and deeply fallible.

Which is much less marketable...

[homewardskies]

#truth nuke

As a Pagan (not an occultist or witchcraft practitioner, so slightly different discussion but with tons of overlap) whose notable experiences with spirituality have been very rare and very shallow, it was very difficult for me to realize that just because someone else had some big revelation that changes their whole praxis, it does not have to mean anything for my experiences (or lack thereof).

I've talked about it pretty frequently imo. But you don't need to be able to talk to or hear the Gods (I don't, not in any literal sense), you don't need to have visions or dreams, you don't need to be a Priestess reincarnated, here to tell the masses about the Gods.

What is much more important is your relationship with your practice being your own, being grounded, being informed, and being studied.

I don't typically like saying "touch grass" to people, but you have to think about why you're even doing this stuff. Is it for external validation? Are you trying to seem more knowledgeable and experienced than you are? Do you just want authority over something important to you? Those aren't sustainable for things that are supposed to be internally authentic.

ALSO

It has taught me the importance of labeling your UPG as such. We have SO much misinformation and misconceptions just floating around for anyone to pick up on. If you feel a certain way about doing certain things, that's fine, but don't present it as the undeniable truth.

(That's just my two-cents rant underneath a very well thought-out post. OP is right on the money and that's exactly why I've been taking a step back from online spaces and my own practice.)

[homewardskies]

I'm not pagan myself, but I've seen some people claiming that the Norse gods wouldn't care if someone who died in battle was a good person or not, can you tell me anything to disprove that?

Hey! Sorry this took me so long, life has been busy.

Short answer, I can't tell you anything for certain because we can not know anything for sure about the afterlife, if there even is one.

It's my personal belief that, based on the spiritual concept of the multi-part soul, we are not a whole, cohesive being in death as we are in life.

So yes, someone who is "bad" could theoretically go to the same afterlife as me.

In battle is a little trickier because I can assume you're thinking about those who die in battle and are selected by Odin. Honor could be a part of that, so those who were not honorable (by whatever standards unknown to us) might not go to that particular Hall.

But keep in mind there are multiple afterlives one could go to. Those "dishonored" souls might not be fit for Odin's fight, but do they still go somewhere? Perhaps Helheim? Are they devoured by Nidhogg, as mythology suggests?

But then the next part to think about is what we think "bad" means in this context. A murderer? A billionaire who abuses wealth? There's a lot of varieties of evil, and even evil people don't necessarily deserve an eternity of suffering, as is commonly posed to Christians and the like.

I believe that the breakdown of the soul in death is functionally cleansing, and since I don't believe anyone is born evil, I don't think the baser soul is subject to punishments for the living. Maybe there is some sort of means of purging the problematic parts of the soul (such as via Nidhogg), or maybe there's some kind of reincarnation rule like in other religions. But we really just can't know until we die.

Many pagan religions aren't afterlife-centric religions, and their focus is largely animistic and reciprocal. So maybe there's some degree of "punishment" in a cycle of bad luck for the soul in its other forms. But it doesn't really function like other major religions in the sense of Salvation vs. Condemnation, so it's a lot of areas of grey.

[homewardskies]

"A shriek rang in my ears just then--womanish, it seemed. Did it come from girls--did it come from Nymphai who live on high mountain-tops or in river-springs or in grassy meadows?"

-Homer, Odyssey 6. 121 ff (trans. Shewring) (Greek epic C8th B.C.)

[adeltte]

Modern helpols:

"no, you can't call a statue/painting of Aphrodite attractive/hot. They're real gods you have to respect"

Ancient helpols:

"Let's make an epithet of how nice Aphrodite's butt looks to show our devotion"

[jacquelinebartholomew]

The reason why modern hellenic polytheists do this, I believe, is that so many of them find it hard to shake Christianity's influence. The Christian conception of God is distant, un-sexual, divorced from all human characteristics, since with human characteristics comes flaws.

However, the gods of the Greek Pantheon are not like this. They are close-by, they have human characteristics, flaws and all, they are sexual beings.

When people first start off in this religion, they assume that the Christian conception of God is the only "right" way in which one can conceive of a god – sure, they don't believe in the Christian god, but they assume that His characteristics are going to be found in all other gods.

We must bear in mind that part of what sets different religions apart is entirely different ideas of who or what a god can be. And when you change religions, it is going to have to be accompanied with a shifting of your perspective in some way.

[jacquelinebartholomew]

(and for anyone wondering, the epithet that OP is referring to is Aphrodite Kallipygos, and there are multiple statues that depict her)

[mint-in-the-moonlight]

I would like to push back on this a little bit because, yes, there is an issue with latent Christianity and limited research in Helpol (and Rompol) spaces, but also not every difference in opinion is due to a "Christian" mindset or a lack of education.

Obviously, even in ancient times, there were different opinions, so I'm not saying one approach is better than another, but it is a fact that Neoplatonism emerged within the context of Hellenic and later Roman polytheism. Neoplatonism is a philosophy that views the Gods as more distant, un-sexual and the like. And it is Neoplatonism that influenced Christianity, not the other way around.

I'm not saying that everyone has to agree with Neoplatonism, far from it, I have my own issues with it. What I'm trying to demonstrate is that different theologies and philosophies existed even in ancient times. So I think it would be incorrect to say that there is no space for diverging views on the Gods within Hellenic and Roman Polytheism.

I think that's actually the thing that separates us from Christianity the most - we don't have an orthodoxy, we can believe different things and still worship the same Gods together.

[mischievous-heretic]

Interesting conversation! Wanted to add that people's ideas about the correct degree to which we should anthropomorphize deities appears to factor in as well.

As already mentioned, Neoplatonism presents the gods as less human, more nebulous spiritual energies. It de-emphasizes deities' human-like qualities and encourages less anthropomorphism.

Whereas imagining what Aphrodite's butt looks like... requires us to anthropomorphize her a lot more than if we saw her through a Neoplatonic lens.

Obviously both of those views existed in ancient times, which provides historical precedence for both approaches today.

It's reasonable to anthropomorphize the gods very little and see them as mostly energies, possessing very few to no human traits, as Neoplatonists did.

It's also fine to anthropomorphize deities to the degree where we see them as very human-like, as some other ancient people did.

And, I think, it's okay to have a more nuanced view somewhere between those ends of the anthropomorphism spectrum.

[twunkish-cleric]

Hellenic Pagans when they're trying to do actual research on their deities but they just keep getting stuff for Lore Olympus, Hades game, Epic the Musical, etc:

Theistic Satanists, Luciferians and other people who work with demons when they're trying to do actual research on their guides but keep getting stuff for Helluva Boss:

Norse Pagans and Heathens when they have to sift through 5 different layers of Nazi bullshit just to find a single credible source that isn't bigoted:

Celtic Pagans who are trying to research their deities but keep just finding repackaged Wiccan traditions that aren't historical at fucking all:

Kemetic Pagans trying to find actual quality historically accurate information about Ancient Egyptian Religion but just keep running into stuff that Victorian "scholars" just made the fuck up:

Roman Pagans watching people treat their religion like it's basically just Hellenic Polytheism but slightly to the left when it's so much more complex than that:

Slavic Pagans trying to find a single fucking credible source on their religion and find another person who also practices it:

I'm sure there's way more things like this but I can't think of them rn. We should all kiss about this btw

[laurusamystic]

In ancient Greek religion, an empty throne often signified the possible presence of a god, even in the absence of an image or statue. These thrones were placed during rituals and festivals, such as Theophania at Delphi, as a sign that a deity might arrive.

At times, they were reserved for gods beyond the local pantheon. In intercultural sanctuaries like Delos or Piraeus, divine visitors from other cultures were honoured with these sacred seats. Foreign deities, such as Isis (Auset), were welcomed through processions and offerings. Their presence was acknowledged by the throne left waiting.

This practice was deeply tied to the Greek value of xenia, or sacred hospitality. Welcoming the unknown god mirrored the ethical imperative to welcome the stranger. The Greeks didn't always know who would come, but they made room nonetheless. The empty throne stood as a symbol of respect, openness, and readiness.

For modern Hellenic Polytheists, this symbolism carries real ethical weight. Xenia is not optional; it’s a central religious duty. Refugees, migrants, strangers, and newcomers deserve the same care once offered to unknown gods.

As a divine law protected by Zeus Xenios, xenia calls us to wait with hope, to receive with kindness, and to respond with generosity. The empty throne is a reminder that hospitality is a virtue, custom, and sacred practice in the religion of Hellenic Polytheism.

Hail the deathless gods; Hail Zeus Xenios

My 2min 20s video on this topic Instagram, TikTok, YouTube

[homewardskies]

"You should check out Patrochillesvibes, an awesome blog that calls out racism in the classics fandom! The recently made eye-opening posts on Kyleesarthell and Sarafangirlart!"

Just wanna warn you and the anon who said that (^) that this blog has been going around wrongly accusing every other classics fanart blogger on this app of racism and white supremacism of some kind, despite her research being extremely poor and inaccurate.

I cannot speak for every victim of this quote unquote awesome blog, but definitely check out the blogs who were accused of some hate crimes before taking any action against them, because some of them accusations make absolutely zero sense.

For example, for sarafangirlart, check out this post + the comments: https://www.tumblr.com/sarafangirlart/797187582413963264/heads-up-that-youve-been-put-on-this-hate-blogs?source=share

I appreciate the heads up. I did briefly look over their blog after the initial ask, but it was very much a fandom space, so I didn't really stick around or pay close attention to their posts afterwards.

The post you're referencing is a little strange as well. I'm not saying we shouldn't be critical of potential white supremacy, but that definitely seems like a stretch.

All in all, not the kind of drama or community I want to be wrapped up in.