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@ladybracknellssherry
I'm MJ and I am very tired.
I don't really believe in mbti because I'm an ENTP.
Part-time Crowley/Gabriel conspiracy theorist. Full-time GO3 hater.
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it surprises me when people call the ending “not homophobic” simply because it leaves two men in a romantic relationship. the problem is not that anthony and asa fell in love with each other. the problem is that aziraphale and crowley, characters with one of the most unusual and deeply developed queer stories in modern fantasy, were sacrificed for it
a romance between two men does not automatically make a story good representation. especially when those characters are reduced to a set of generic traits: they are kind, they love each other, and that is basically it. we have already seen countless stories like that, and this is not just about gay relationships. people loved aziraphale and crowley not because they were a couple. they loved them as individuals: complex, contradictory characters with their own dynamic, history, and personalities that developed over many years. that is why it feels so strange to watch them be replaced with a flatter version of the same idea
to me, bad representation is not the absence of a kiss. it is when unique queer characters are erased in favor of a safer and more conventional romantic story. that is a disservice to the fandom
All of the queer people got a bad ending. It feels intentional as fuck. Everyone of them. Their lives destroyed, or meaninglessly killed off screen before ultimately being erased.
This isn't good representation, it's just being like heres some crumbs, and if you dont like it youre evil and harming fandom.
Agreed. Sure maybe they couldn't get the actors/actresses back for the Finale but they didn't have to invent a bad ending for them???
Imagine if Max (Mutt's spouse) only said that Mutt is elsewhere in the country or not around that particular day, no one would have questioned it. But they just had to say he died in what appeared to be an act of self-unaliving???? It was so unnecessary.
Maggie and Nina lost their shops and had to move away.
AziCrow end up becoming stardust.
And everyone in the world got evaporated. Worst ending for all the humans, especially queer people.
And for anybody with even a lick of hope remaining, PRIDE merch from the GO shop was delivered with a "letter from Aziraphale" that says HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT PRIDE IS ABOUT
And as an aroace person, I do not believe that two people not kissing is ace representation. Representation is not the absence of something, but the declaration of another. Without an acknowledgement within the story of any kind towards the reasoning behind it, the absence of a kiss is simply that. The shining plethora of diverse queer characters were eradicated. In interviews, those involved in Good Omens stated a kiss between Aziraphale and Crowley was deemed unnecessary. And no, a finger to mouth boop that you would give to a statue or a dog or a corpse does not count as a romantically declarative kiss. It's insulting to claim that it is. By the end of the show, radical queerness was not celebrated, not declared, but packaged into something palatable to the queer-ambivalent and casually queer-phobic masses.
The queerness of Good Omens 3 was not silent as a queer positive statement. The queerness was just silenced.
So I guess there's some long-ass post circulating, where somebody says they like the Good Omens ending where the protagonists (and everybody else in the universe) are disintegrated into dust, but they need everybody who's sad about that to shut up and not say anything, because sad people are ruining their enjoyment of everyone getting disintegrated. Ohhhhh..........kay?
Turns out the horsemen of the Apocalypse now prefer to go by Shareholder Profit, Private Equity, Corporate Personhood, and Workforce Optimization.
Shareholder Profit: War (the casus belli for attacks on workers' rights)
Private Equity: Pestilence (they are parasites that voraciously strip the value out of a healthy business until it withers and dies)
Workforce Optimization: Famine (cutting hours and employees until the business is starved of staff, barely functioning)
Corporate Personhood: Death (a hollow, shambling mockery of a human with rights and needs)
Yeah I can work with that.
Ooooh, Private Equity fits even better with the original Horseman: Conquest. Because it's something taking over, y'know?
You see... One of the main reasons why destroying the Good Omens Universe and replacing it with the "Real Universe" was so mindnumbingly stupid is that the story was created as a satire and allegory, and all of the "villains" were analogies/parallels/stand-ins for archetypes and forces and figures that already exist in the real world.
I've seen a lot of people say that Crowley's MBTI is ENTP, but honestly, I see him as more of an ENFP. ENFP's differ from ENTP's mainly because they rely on their personal sense of what's wrong or right, and they make their own decisions based on what they feel and how it would affect others. I know Crowley doesn't seem like he'd care about people's feelings, but whenever I think back to any scene where he vouches for children ("you can't kill kids" at Noah's Ark or hiding Job's children as Bildad the Shuhite), he seems to be prioritizing what his own opinion or feelings are rather than what seems "efficient" or "good", I suppose, in the situation. also, we all know he's (deep down) very full of emotion and absolutely would act on his emotions (running away with Aziraphale!!) rather than what's "right" (letting him go despite his feelings).
anyone else feel this way?
Oh this is fun and funny because I'm a Crowley and I'm an ENTP. And I'm an extremely emotional person. But I'm not good at just sitting with my feelings. I always have to try to logic where my emotions are coming from and turn them into a problem to be solved. We have to investigate and ask and infuriate and debate and scheme. Nothing makes us angrier than something that makes no sense. I identify so much with Crowley, I really see him as very AuDHD coded as well. ENTP hits a lot of those same notes. Yes, there is confirmation bias here, I am aware. I still think it though. But of course, personality isn't static. And people also have a tendency to answer personality assessment questions with how they'd like to be, versus how they actually are. We're different in different situations and with different people. Perhaps he's an xNxP. A little ENTP, a little ENFP, maybe sometimes INTP, but never INFP 😆
What i think fully and genuinely is that allll of what was cut to condense the finale down to 97 min was filler.
This is what I actually think.
Because look at Season 2! something like 80% of that was pure filler. gaiman's wrist starting cramping coming up with filler so he even farmed it out to other writers! (nowadays it would be chatgpt).
There probably was a meandering, ultimately pointless 1941 part 3 featuring Aziraphale shooting some zombies and then being made to do the sadistic I am Wrong dance. There probably was some cowboy nonsense where Aziraphale is stupid and falls off a horse and Crowley sneers at him.
I don't give a shit. It's going to be filler. Because if there was anything in those scripts that wasn't filler, they would have filmed it. There was filler in the finished movie, even.
There is NOTHING that could have been written that explains why it's good to coerce a crying person who wants to live to kill themselves. Shakespeare couldn't have done it.
None of the actually big issues with this season have to do with things being cut. Because the big issues are that the show forgot what genre it was and that it was deliberately written to go against the expectations of the only people who wanted to see it.
Imagine sitting through six hours of cringy, flat, cowboy shenanigans only to have to watch that murder-suicide anyway.
Season 1: “You don’t have to obey the roles assigned to you.”
Season 2: “Love and free will can exist despite oppressive institutions.”
Season 3: “Actually, those institutions are so inescapable that reality itself has to be replaced. Also suicide is good.”
Why not call out the antis who are calling people who simply like the finale evil, worse than people who hate trans people, worse than people who are homophobic? Or the ones who come into any post saying anything vaguely positive about the finale and yell about suicide and genocide and how if you like anything about it you're delusional and promoting suicidal intent? People who go into the comments of other people's season 3 art and yell at them for trigging them and calling their art impostors are just being nice I suppose. I've never seen so much hate from a fandom before. If anyone is trying to drive people out of the fandom and discourage people from participating it's the antis. They're the one's driving people away from what used to be a welcoming fandom.
I have not yet seen these people, I just called out what I saw.
If there are antis who do that, then yes, that is wrong. But right now, the most *I see* is "please people, tag your shit," which really isn't too much to ask. Again, not saying assholes don't exist on both sides, but this is the part of the discourse that reached me.
What I do know is that this fandom does have a lot of people who struggle with suicide and self-harm. Them asking to be treated kindly and please tag your art so that they can stay away from triggers is natural and understandable. Them asking in an agitated way when they already *are triggered* is natural as well. I'm not saying they're asking in a good way, I'm not saying they're asking in a kind way, and I'm not saying they're not, since, again, I haven't seen it.
All I ask is that we accept that differing interpretations do and can exist and stop beating each other up over it. I hated the finale, but I can see where you come from if you liked it. If you liked it, please try to understand the reasoning behind seeing a harmful message and being triggered by it.
And if you feel either way and aren't part of the discourse, please call out those who are being unkind on either side of it when you see them, and do it directly. They need to be told, *but kindly please*, that this kind of behaviour has no place here, and that any discussion can be had calmly and reasonably.
My suggestion to the pros: just use "#pro go3" like we use "#anti go3", and have been doing for your benefit (after we were told people who liked the finale were triggered by us hating on it) since shortly after it aired, and tag asanthony as well as ineffable husbands.
Be kind to each other. On both sides.
aziraphale and crowley didn’t need to become human because they were already human in all the ways that mattered
aziraphale and crowley didn’t need to get married because they were already married in all the ways that mattered
you’re going to love again, find a job again, create art again, do what you love again, feel powerful again. you’re going to be back on track. i don’t know when, but you are going to feel like yourself again, eventually. this isn’t the end. hang in there.
Crowley was so needlessly mean to Aziraphale that he made him cry, but look at the pretty rainbow in the background.
What the fuck.
if you think about it making your readers picture stuff in their heads is lk noncon and problematic
okay but this is Vladimir Nabokov's whole schtick, he'll say some shit about the reflections or the bedsheets and you'll go "Oh you greasy fucker you just made me imagine what must be going on to cause that to happen" and he'll rub his hands and go "He he he he, bring meee more butterflieeeeees"
you CANNOT convince me that Anthony “And. I. Did. Not. Care. For. It.” J Crowley wouldn’t have defended Aziraphale when God said that he was lazy, gluttonous and prideful…
Crowley absolutely would NOT have just stood there letting god eviscerate his angel. Just. No.
The worst thing about the finale is that for the majority of it, you couldn't even feel the love between Aziraphale and Crowley. Or at least, not like it was in season 1 and season 2 (Not faulting the acting btw, it's much more about how it was written).
I fell in love with GO because of the soft love radiating from Aziraphale, his stubborn joy and Crowley's helpless adoration of him (almost despite himself).
They went through so much and their love never wavered.
I refuse to believe what GO3 tried to tell us. That Crowley fell out of love with Aziraphale (and found the world unredeemable).
And that Aziraphale's hope was stupid and he should be shamed into admitting that he was wrong.
Actually, that is exactly how fandom works.
This fandom has gotten so pedantic and inconsiderate and antagonistic and just downright cruel that the definitions of "death" and "suicide" are being debated and flouted and disregarded for... what? Stats? To be "right" instead of being considerate and empathic and decent? This is what happened on screen at the end of Good Omens 3: Aziraphale and Crowley requested that God annihilate them and create a new universe without them in it. Because apparently they were part of the problem. Then, 13.9 billion years later, Asa and Anthony, who looked like Aziraphale and Crowley and shared a handful of their traits but ostensibly none of their memories, met one another. Followed by a scene in which characters that looked like other angels and demons and humans from "the original" "fake" universe also appeared, with no indication they had any memories from or anything in common with their counterparts in the other universe. The final scene at a cottage in the South Downs twenty years later shows, what the content of the preceding 10 minutes indicates, Asa and Anthony stargazing and drinking cocoa. Anthony acknowledging the song of a nightingale nearby and Asa responding that "you wouldn't know a nightingale if it perched on your nose" seems to conflict with Crowley in S2 stating "no nightingales," as that implies he would know what they sound like. Asa asks if Anththony ever wonders if there's more out there - pointing to the sky - and Anthony's response is, in paraphrase, that it doesn't really matter to him, because he has Asa. This absence of Crowley's innate curiosity and questioning and answer seeking personality traits seem to indicate as well that Anthony and Asa have not gained Aziraphale and Crowley's memories/personalities. If you want to get into semantics, I suppose instead of suicide we can use the term "elective euthanasia." But at the end of the day, they still died. That is considered major character death. Even if it's "temporary," even if it's "a ruse," a request for death and the dissolution of a physical body would feel fairly cut and dry in any other situation. A ghost or a reincarnation or a lost soul adrift in the void with no memory of who and where it came from are all interpretations of what remains of someone after death.
Is this irony? Sorry, I'm not terribly media literate. You can have the headcanon that Asa and Anthony are Aziraphale and Crowley. You can make the art and write the fics. Your fanworks deserve to exist just as much as those who do not share your interpretation of the ending. But, and especially for those of you who claim GO3 is #ForTerry, I do have to wonder why you continue to insist and force upon others that it is canon, and one that Pterry would want. We can't know. Terry Pratchett is no longer alive to tell us how he feels about the ending of GO3. And we have comments from various sources close to him with conflicting information about how Terry would have felt about it. But to me, the ending does not seem aligned with Pterry's own words. "Dementia in its varied forms is not like cancer. Dad saw the cancer in his pancreas as an invader. But Alzheimer’s is me, unwinding, losing trust in myself, a butt of my own jokes and on bad days capable of playing hunt the slipper by myself and losing. You can’t battle it, you can’t be a plucky “survivor”. It steals you from yourself." - Sir Terry Pratchett
“I hate things that try to take away what you are. […] When you take away memories, you take away the person, everything they are.” - Sir Terry Pratchett, Wintersmith.
Please tag your fanworks appropriately, and thank you to those who do.
I just hope that in my life I can be imbued with the same sense of timing about extracting myself from situations as Douglas Mackinnon did with getting the fuck out of Good Omens
