Being eternally sad about Jon Snow’s ending is just another facet of my personality now, I guess 🤷♀️
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@thenutofroyalty
Being eternally sad about Jon Snow’s ending is just another facet of my personality now, I guess 🤷♀️
why does bad canon have to happen to good characters?
Great, I can’t even listen to the Stark theme without getting super depressed. I thought I’d managed to accept the GoT finale and season 7 and 8 in general but it literally hurts so much because I’ll never hear that theme again, with those same characters I love, with the faces of the actors I know and have the story do justice to that. I am so salty.
(1/2) I read your post describing Pol!Jon (in conversation with Tyrion) and true Jon (by himself and with Arya) in response to a question. I really enjoyed it. I would commend D&D for pulling that off. The interesting thing, though, is that the rest of the episode following Dany's death was bizarre, comical, and farcical. Do you have an explanation for that? Logic was completely suspended in both the grand and small council and Sam, Bran, Sansa, Jon, and Arya behaved totally OOC? Thanks!
(2/2) 1. Sam never saying goodbye to Jon before he leaves for Castle Black 2. Jon never saying “there is nothing to forgive.” 3. Nobody bringing up Jon’s heritage ever again after Dany’s death. 4. Bronn as the master of Coin. 5. Brienne leaving Sansa and staying back in King’s Landing 6. Bran as the king after refusing to be the lord of Winterfell. 7. Nobody else asking for independence after Sansa states that the north will stay independent. Why? None of this makes sense. Thanks!
Thanks, anon!
Honestly? It feels pointless to make sense of anything. If Arya had been in character, she would’ve busted Jon out of prison weeks before the DP meeting and things would’ve ended differently. But D&D had an ending to hit and so they hit it, characterization and logic be damned.
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How Jon feels about Ned not being his father, how the Starks feel about Jon not being their brother, how he reconciles both sides of his family (if he even did?), how he feels about Lyanna, how he feels about going back to the Watch, ect. ect….the fact that we don’t know anything about this main character except that he’s a mouthpiece for a typical Dany follower, illustrates that the entire season centered around Dany and her descent. Everything was about Dany, her POV, her pain, her fears, her losses, her strivings, her decisions. So for people to complain that Dany going dark needed even more development and more screen time, I have to raise an objection because GRRM never optioned the rights to “Breaking Dany.”
Jon Snow Seasons 1-7: WE HAVE TO SAVE HUMANITY FROM CERTAIN ANNIHILATION FROM THE ARMY OF THE DEAD!!! COME ON PEOPLE!! TOP PRIORITY!!
Jon Snow Season 8: I mean, what’s a little genocide on a Friday afternoon? She’s our Queen, she made a choice. It wasn’t a great choice, but hey sometimes people make mistakes.
Can y’all believe we only got a SINGLE scene this season where it was just Jon and Sansa? A single scene, where the topic was Dny. A single scene between Jon and Sansa. TWO scenes just being Jon, Sansa, Arya, and Bran. ONE of which was just about Dny and then a parentage reveal that was cut off, so that we didn’t see their reactions to this very important news [at least “”very important“” at the time, obviously not news that mattered at all for the story]. And the OTHER being them saying goodbye. THat’s iT!!! ONE scene of Jon and Sansa after 6 and beginning-7 scenes galore. And TWO scenes of “”””the pack””””” talking about some chick they don’t even know [including Jon] and saying hasta la vista, baby.
I cannot believe.
I was a travesty and I’m mad as hell the GOT became the Dany Show.
I’m fully supportive of brown women divorcing their lazy, misogynistic, racist, and abusive brown husbands.
Jon Snow looked so good in season 6. That i-just-came-back-from-the-dead-and-may-or-may-not-fancy-my-sister-who-will-turn-out-to-be-my-cousin look really worked for him.
this is the funniest twitter thread i’ve ever seen in my goddamn life
“Wait but don’t ask another guy I’ll do it” is making me laugh
Kelsey L. Hayes's answer to What is GRRM’s point with Dany’s character arc? Is he stressing that those who seek power cannot also be good? W
I really wish Emilia had read this answer.
——————-
It’s an indictment and a challenge for the audience. So, us. It isn’t about her, it’s about us and how we perceive her.
It challenges people to consider how they think about and perceive violence and warfare. This is encompassed in Tyrion’s line to Jon: Wherever Dany goes, evil men die. And because we consider violence against “bad” people to be inherently justified — justifiable — most of us don’t put up a fuss if Dany crucifies slavers or feeds nobles to her dragons or burns Dothraki khals alive.
The problem comes when the perspective shifts — our perspective — but Dany’s doesn’t. That’s essentially what happened when she burned King’s Landing. People cried foul because it was something they saw as a departure from her characterization, because she’d never hurt “innocent” people before. It’d be more accurate though to say that she hadn’t hurt people the audience considered “innocent” before.
Dany didn’t consider the King’s Landing citizens to be innocent. They weren’t proactive enough in welcoming her, they didn’t do enough to boot Cersei out and they weren’t grateful enough when Dany showed up to “liberate” them. Her perspective hadn’t changed; she was doing what she’d always done, it’s just that this time the audience didn’t — couldn’t — agree with her or justify what she’d done.
In the end that’s what Dany was chasing: That mojo that came with liberation and all it entailed. That sense of justified, self-righteous, vengeful violence against a foe she believed deserved punishment. For a very long time, her foes were our foes. She beat up on comic book villains and many people (though not all) cheered, until our context changed but hers didn’t. Suddenly the people she was immolating didn’t look too villainous to us.
But they still did to her.
So that’s one part of it. It forces the audience to reckon with our own bloodlust and how we evaluate justifiable violence and atrocities. Because what Dany did to “bad” people was still atrocious — people just didn’t care because her victims weren’t sufficiently sympathetic, and her overall goal — protecting people from other, worse people — looked “noble.”
The other part of it — and the one with real-world parallels in recent history — is that, to be blunt, people were deluded into rooting for a stone-cold tyrant and didn’t realize it until it was too late and the jig was up. And I think some of the aggressive backlash against the final season is to do with this; people would rather complain about the story than take a good, long, hard look in the mirror and realize that they were tricked into rooting for Stalin with tits.
Would you want to own up to the fact that you were duped that way? Probably not. Most people aren’t capable of that level of self-evaluation and introspection. Rather than look at the story and be horrified at what it means — because if people can be had by Dany, they can be had by tyrants like her in the real world, and they have been — people instead clap their hands over their eyes and ears and blame the narrative for being “wrong,” because it’s easier than admitting the truth.
The combination of a compelling life story, a pretty face and violence we can agree with — against other people, people not like us, people we find morally wrong — can lead to horror. You know, “first they came for the Jews, then they came for the unionists, then they came for me,” in so many words (I know that isn’t exact). The violence is always ratcheted up, and up, until one day it isn’t violence you agree with anymore. But by then it doesn’t matter, because the tyrant is too powerful, too convinced of their own righteousness (because you’ve told them for so long that they’re right) and too far gone to go back.
I’m not exaggerating when I say that I think the great divide over Dany — specifically, who saw her coming, and who didn’t — will be the biggest line of demarcation in the fandom going forward. You were either had by her, or you weren’t, and the joke is that for a very long time, people who were had by her treated those who saw her for what she was as morally inferior — misogynistic, sexist, overly severe, even pro-slavery. In hindsight though, whose “moral compass” was broken, and whose wasn’t? I think of the many, many people who sneeringly told me how terrible I was for calling Dany out for what she was years ago, and I wonder how many of them are shocked at what happened to her. Probably most!
Tyrants rarely look like tyrants immediately — they might make promises, they might have good intentions, they might hurt all the “right” people, they might seem sympathetic, they might seem to want to do good (for the “right” people, the same way they want to punish the “right” people). But the mask will always drop. The trick is seeing them for what they are before the mask drops, because by then it’s too late.
What GRRM did with Daenerys Targaryen is fucking brilliant, but only if people realize and accept what he did and more importantly what it means. Too many of them will keep their heads in the sand, unfortunately, but it’s their loss — I just hope none of them end up in a position to boost the next Daenerys Targaryen in the real world, because they will.
And no doubt they’ll be equally shocked when that tyrant eventually shows their true face, because they learned nothing from Daenerys’ story. There’s always another Daenerys though; we’re just lucky this one was fictional.
pls, just tell me that jon loves sansa and sansa loves jon. and i´ll be okay.
jon loves sansa, sansa loves jon, and d&d are cowards
That's really all there is to it.
No one was more disappointed with the ending of Game of Thrones than the cast of Game of Thrones
jon snow once knew mance’s execution by fire was wrong but now he is justifying the destruction of a city after it surrendered and he was willing to do nothing to stop dany until tyrion talked to him. what kind of fall from grace
#his storyline merging with dany’s was honestly the worst thing to ever happen to his character #he had to completely disappear in order to make that relationship and that storyline work
#honestly this#jonerys was the WORST thing to happen to jon#it ate him him completely#and it wasn’t even that good of a fucked up!ship either cause kit and emilia had negative zero chemistry#there was a lot of TERRIBLE connotations to that dynamic till the very end#and we never really got the chance to understand WHY jon loved dany#this kinda blind ride or die loyalty is something that can only be sold and BOUGHT if the two actors have GREAT chem and GREAT writing#these two had neither#the show never bothered to sell the jonerys romance as anything other than a hook-up gone wrong#that’s why so many jon fans were hoping for PJ theory cause it woulda given jon a lot of his characterization back#it was never about ships#it was about avoiding this shit#cause i know the people who claim to be good with this……………aren’t………not really…….#jon’s overall legacy in-universe and out-universe suffered greatly due to this underheated ~romance~#the only thing giving me solace is the fact that kit is calling dany an outright tyrant and dictator#which means deep down he haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaated every moment of that bullshit they had him saying (via @beavesaintmarie )
I’ll never be embarrassed for shipping Jonsa, or believing that it could’ve been canon. I’m still hopeful that there will be some Jonsa in the books (even if it’s just some confused faux incest feelings that never lead to anything).
What had me convinced was the foreshadowing from the books and how satisfying a Jonsa pairing would’ve been narratively. Since scenes from the show can be interpreted in different ways, I never thought that they could be evidence enough to sway me. But stuff from the books? George’s OG outline? How well it seemed to fit in and tie things up? Yeah, I was confident.
Being wrong isn’t the worst thing. I’ll always ship Jonsa no matter what George does or doesn’t do with them. I’ll always believe that they were the superior ship.