What if they don’t like The Truth?

Vietnamese 🇻🇳| a 22yo INFP | Rambling a lot about Byler |

[viviennehoang]

Wise words

[rebelwise-enthusiast]

guys this is BAD. a 5.8 rating is AWFUL. i understand that we want the scenes we feel obligated to, but NO ONE, in the GA OR on the production team is going to understand this is WHY its bombing. it was shitty, it was a MEDIOCRE episode. there may have been things cut out that makes the pacing bad. That makes it deserve a 6.5ish. but in the end, a GAY CHARACTER CAME OUT ON THE BIGGEST SHOW ON TELEVISION RIGHT NOW. that’s what people are gonna remember. it was to too many people, but It Happened.

but people are going to say 5.8 and say oh, they made the character gay and it ruined the show. the coming out took too much time. all a rating this bad is going to do in hollywood is SCARE people away from making shows with Better rep.

if yall want to rating bomb, thats fine, but yall need to pick a DIFFERENT FUCKING EPISODE.

[fwnbyers]

do they think the duffers goal in life is to psychologically torture their queer audience??? like what type of villain shit is this.

“its honestly masterful storytelling” give me a break

[monsterkill--er]

The "Coming Out" Scene I Would Have Accepted:

Versus What The Duffers Gave Us:

[sorcererss]

i can't fault Mike cause if you were him would you think Will has feelings for you?

He never initiates physical touch, sure, he's nice and reassuring but he's mostly quiet and you always have take the initiative. he got mad at the fact you stopped playing DnD but he never made an effort to hang out beyond that? and then he didn't call you when he went away and you tried calling him. and then he's doing this painting for this girl he likes. and then he was sulking all the day the first time you guys got to hang out after forever. sure, your girlfriend was there but you missed him so much and he didn't even talk to you. and then he gets mad at you for not calling except you did and you know for a fact he didn't. and there's this painting for a girl he likes. he likes a girl, you're certain. but again, you have to apologize for blowing up on him, like you always do, and you try to be extra nice and show him how much you care, but he's always so quiet and reserved and you can't really read him sometimes. yet you know him so well. and then he gives you this painting and, oh never mind it's from your girlfriend. he tells you how much you mean to her and maybe, wait, could this be how he feels? no way, he tells you to tell her how much you love her and to stay together. and then he seems upset but you did what he told you to do. and then you're living together and its nice to be together again and things feels right and normal. things feel like they used to. but then he starts hanging out with this older girl and she's really cool. and everyone likes her and why wouldn't he like her? will he make a painting for her too? they're giggling and laughing together and now his mom likes her. will he make a painting for her, too? you wonder.

[verstopia]

Castle Byers has a password. Will has to let people in.

The demogorgon/Vecna also violated that. It didn't only enter without permission but also destroyed Castle Byers, which was a safe space from his childhood, in the process of doing so.

It genuinely baffles me that people can see all that on screen and still deny the SA implications of Will's experiences in the Upside Down. No one is "reading too much into it" for pointing them out. They're seeing exactly what the show wants you to see. It was never subtle. You could see the SA implications with the vine and the town speculating that Will was raped by some older guy and left for dead (and they weren't totally wrong) in S1, but they made it even more clear now.

You shouldn't need to see a child raped on screen to understand what they're trying to depict. The fact that Stranger Things did show a child being raped and there's still people who deny it is genuinely scary.

Sexual assault is about the victims. It's not less valid for not being a source of sexual pleasure for the offender. It's insulting to insinuate otherwise. Will is a fictional character who won't see you invalidating his experiences. But the real victims can see it and be affected by it. Have some sense.

The "No trespassing" signs in the Byers' house in S1 are there for a reason. "All friends welcomed" in Castle Byers is there for a reason. The password is there for a reason.

You are supposed to see how important privacy and consent are, and you are supposed to see how Will is constantly denied both of those things. This was always the intention of the show. If you don't see it, you can keep your opinion, but don't go around invalidating others and calling people "weirdos" for talking about it, because you are factually wrong.

[bylerworld]

byler endgame secured in the bag bro it's going to be so insane im shaking

[the-yappstronaut]

"we need more complex characters!!"

but the second a character shows signs of mental illness that aren't romanticized by the media they're suddenly 'poorly written' with 'bad development'

[lordystrange]

”Bylers have no media literacy-”

Some of us are just psychics then! 💁🏼

[queerxqueen]

for the record i do empathize with byler doubt but i have very little patience for it. i cannot stress enough how different this situation is from klance/destiel/johnlock/every other queerbait example people like to compare byler to.

i get the doubt. i get that folks have been queerbaited before. and i get that right now especially, it feels hard to believe a major franchise would break up a main couple to make a lead queer. and there are a sea of people who feel very comfortable calling us delusional all the time which doesn't help.

but like. will is not only canonically gay, he is canonically in love with mike. the show has built up will's love for mike for so many seasons that rejection makes no narrative sense. and the show has intentionally kept mike's internal arc hidden from the audience for several seasons, which is the only thing preventing byler from being shut down, if mike were going to reject will. we're talking about a show that has had the canonically queer main character be empowered by his own queerness and his love for his best friend to save the day. a show about underdogs and outcasts. they have dealt with will's queerness and his character so gently and kindly that i truly cannot comprehend them not giving that same kindness and love to mike's internalized homophobia and to byler as a canon relationship.

it's like... at what point are we going to trust our instincts and the evidence and the contents of the show? i'm not even saying to trust the duffers and ST writers as storytellers, but to trust ourselves and our own understanding of story. we have analyzed this shit to death. and not just tearing apart little details that could feasibly not mean anything, but from a big picture narrative perspective of the kind of story they have been trying to tell for 5 seasons and almost 10 years. the themes of the story, the trajectory of the character arcs that have been set up, the relationships they've developed. it all points to byler, indisputably, and to me, without any doubts.

so while i feel for those who have doubts and fears and anxiety about it because of the prevalence of homophobia and heteronormativity, i really don't have much patience or much else to say or add beyond the many many points of analysis that i and so many other fans have provided to show that byler is happening.

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

Seriously. Thank you for this.

I get doubt. I've previously wrote about my own struggles with it in this post.

I grew up in the times before gay representation on TV was anything but a punchline (at best!) or a one-off dramatic arc. I talked about the impact of our heteronormative culture, and how it reflects in our popular media, on how people digest Stranger Things here.

I also threw an absolute fit in the immediate moments after Stranger Things 4 Volume 2, to the point that I was quoted in an online article on the potential queerbaiting. Fortunately, I calmed down and was able to look at things more rationally in the following days and weeks.

However, I wrote these posts several years ago. And while I can understand how someone would have agreed with my own doubts back then, we're in a different ballgame here. I have never felt more confident in Byler endgame than I do now. We're in the endgame now. Volume 1 was the final opportunity for them to swerve away from it, but, instead, they've gone all in.

So, while I can understand doubt, it can't come because we're afraid to hope. Please, stop looking for reasons to doubt. Because that is honestly what is happening right now. Yeah, the disappointment can hurt more if you hope, but so too can the elation and, at least in my case, vindication feel better.

I once stopped short of hope because of my past experiences. But it is clear to me that this situation is different. I'm allowing myself to hope. If Will can do it, so can I.

[horrorwhore444]

season 2 michael wheeler is so back

[sagesstrid]

Ok, this is crazy

[howtobecomeadragon]

if mlvn was endgame, mike would've been a liiiittle bit faster on his bike, met nancy and el at his house at the end of the crawl, and gone into the upside down with el to help find holly and protect el and have several teamwork scenes with her throughout 5x02 - 5x04. we would've seen how they work as a couple after all this time.

he didn't though. he stayed in the rightside up and spent time with his friends and family and to give will motivational pep talks and flirt and to hold hands with will over the dickpipe and to push will to access his powers.

that's it. writing choices were made to prioritize what was important. 🤷‍♂️

[bitofanupsidedowner]

just saying but you would have to fail tremendously as a writer to make a bunch of previously dedicated fans jump ship on the "endgame pairing" during the very last season in favour of the gay one you had no intention of making canon. that would surpass failure into intentional sabotage.

it's very well established that milkvans and homophobes were willing to ignore a lot (some still are) to make their ship work so the fact that even they're not completely sold on milkvan endgame anymore would be an otherworldly screw up and a level of incompetence the ST writers haven't shown before.

like obviously a huge portion of your audience believing that half (or the entirety) of your big straight ship are gay/lesbian and never wanted to be anything other than friends is a pretty big fuck up just to start with, but for you to actively convert nonbelievers right before finishing the series? it's hard to mess up that badly without malicious intent tbh.

[loversbones]

i don't think i will ever experience a euphoria so sudden and profound as the one that hit me when i was watching episode 4 and mike and will started flirting on my screen and then it cut to robin watching them as the words being said were "as far as crazy theories go, i've had crazier" followed by a beautiful shot of byler standing together. in that moment i heard angels sing and i saw a beautiful vision of our utopian future

[stranger-chichka]

OHHHHHHHHHH

@bylernerd on TikTok

[aurorabyler]

IM FUCKING ILL

[andrewthegaynerd]

Wait! If the season ends on Nov 6 and Mike and Will finally get together, it's gonna change the significance of that day for Will.

It's no longer gonna be the day he disappeared and had his life ruined, it's gonna be the day he finally got Mike!!!

Edit: Holy shit, I just realized it's LITERALLY gonna be the Anniversary Effect.