live wesley reaction

mostly atla (zutara / antikataang / smidge of jetara) ats / btvs general stuff + random other fandom stuff

[no-resolution]

[justshipsandstuff]

Zuko’s lesson: “If you think chasing after the Avatar and friends is hard, try travelling with them”

[frogpropaganda]

Why ship Zutara when Z.ukka is right there? Idk, why eat a delicious cupcake when a stale corn muffin is right there?

[cloakedlizard]

It's right there, duh. Nooo- right there on the slide. No, you have to put it under the microscope. Smh acting like you don't see it

[angelusfangs]

Angel sure does do a lot of heavy breathing for a guy who supposedly has no breath.

[pokidokieships]

An assortment of zutara sketches from my alt twitter account…. I may have no time for full pieces lately but trust I’ll sketch them 24/7 anyways

[blossomsbandit]

zutara has reached 9k fics on ao3! congratulations to all the writers creating amazing works of art in the name of this fandom, you're our backbone.

[cloakedlizard]

This is crazy seeing as how when I first started looking through fics it was in the 6900-7000 range I'm pretty sure- and I am super new. That's like... 2000 in 7.5ish months if I'm remembering correctly, and this fandom has been around for how long? Seeing the huuuge influx after the movie in real time was nuts.

[babababooskha]

I think one of the reasons anti-zutara arguments bother me so much is that zutara isn't real. everyone in their head has a different understanding of what zutara would look like in practice based on their impressions of these characters. like if you're making a post critiquing kata//ang then everyone has a concrete understanding of what we're actually discussing.

so when someone makes an anti-zutara take, it usually looks like either 1) bashing the fans for being annoying (when no fandom is uniquely awful) or 2) fighting an invisible ghost lmao. "zutara is wrong because it romanticises toxic masculinity and katara would never be fire lady". katara and zuko are feeding turtle ducks and he's helping her rebuild the southern water tribe in my imagination so I have no clue what you're talking about, I'm sorry.

[babababooskha]

I don't tend to apply strict colonial theory towards a:tla, because the second you try to, the whole thing crumbles apart. I tried to make a list of questionable stuff this show does in its canon and in its orientalism and the list just keeps going. the show's perspective is that war and genocide is bad and hurts everybody. the deeper you interrogate the political stance of a children's cartoon from 2005, the less it holds up. this is ultimately a fantasy epic story for children, written by two white men who really loved anime and the aesthetics of east and south east asian culture. (the sun warriors are based on mesoamerican and indonesian indigenous groups too). and they just smushed all of that together.

katara helps zuko earn back his throne. she canonically believes he's earned it.

basically, if you think zutara fundamentally romanticises coloniser x colonised, then I don't think I can change your mind but then there are about a billion other things that actually happen in the show that ought to render the whole thing unforgivable to you (and those that do apply these critiques to the show as a whole still have no issue calling themselves a:tla fans and actively making fanworks all these years later right?)

so I find it hard to engage with this critique when it's only ever applied to the Concept of Zutara (something which is fanon, fluid and non-canon i.e. not real) and never the actual show redeeming him anyway. aang is the sole survivor of the air nomad genocide, and he stands up on the steps of the fire nation palace as the unified nations celebrate zuko's coronation.

[ok-boomerang]

100% — the suggestion that zutara is some colonizer x colonized fantasy does not fit with the whole reason zuko is so popular — he redeemed himself! the character as written had the bad moral luck to be born in the royal family of a colonizing state but ultimately rejected it, and to still label post-redemption zuko as an active colonizer seems to suggest that humans are not mutable and will always be defined by their pasts. which is…pretty sad and cynical to me. not to mention the fact that critiquing a romance with him but not a friendship is necessarily ranking romantic relationships above platonic ones…which is also a bummer!

[thezutarchive]

Like I said previously, I stopped taking these arguments seriously and stopped applying real life context to a fictional world when I saw that it resulted in Zutara antis trivializing the genocide in Palestine and the other various war crimes of Israel for a ship between animated teenagers…..

Also, any argument that can be dismantled via the Geneva convention section on child soldiers probably shouldn’t be taken seriously anyways…

No, you pieces of shit, Zuko wasn’t “basically in the IDF” and Katara wouldn’t automatically be a victim of systemic sexual violence or a war prize if he fell in love with her…

 I’ve also seen an increase in arguments that Zuko isn’t a victim of the fire nation, and benefited more from his situation than he was hurt by it, ignoring the fact that Zuko was a victim of SEVERE abuse from his family, and his family IS THE Fire Nation… Zuko sees himself as a victim of war. (The Geneva convention would agree btw.) So they’re victim blaming now too.

I could go on, but I’m making Zuko and Katara make out sloppy style right now…

[cloakedlizard]

Also just... ATLA is a very simple show that exists within very simple bounds. There's a whole "And The Day Is Saved" fairy tale happy ending where the war ends and peace is restored and everything is great and everyone is forgiven and best friends.

Acting like it's an accurate 1:1 model of real-world atrocities is silly. It's sillier to act like because you see it this way, everyone else must as well. The only common denominator between everyone who watched the show is the simple sandbox it created for us, and you can't expect everyone to extrapolate the same assumptions that some of these people do. Because they simply do not exist in the text of the show. The show will never be even .000001% as complex as the real world. It's comparing the tiny sandbox of the canon text, the realities of this world, to a vast desert of assumptions based on how things work in the real world.

This is not the real world; it is a story. Stories are controlled. Characters like Zuko can turn their lives around and be healthy and perfect examples of redemption when in real life most people remain the same for the whole of their lives. People who have hated each other for generations are now all friends making amends and getting along. Also, there's like... magic and shit lol.

If you think it's toxic because in your mind you've added on a bunch of things you assume would affect it that aren't present in the text of the show, that's fine to explain why you personally don't like it. It is not accurate to say it reflects the idea as a whole because it is not evidenced by the text. It is your own personal headcanon. And it is not okay to attack other people for liking it by imposing your own imagination onto others. No one is obligated to expand that sandbox into your desert.

Funny how they also only do this for Zutara and not all the shitty implications that Kataang carries (they are very happy to keep the negatives of Kataang in a sandbox smaller than even the show presented), but that's expected, because none of this is about the interesting moral implications of a more complex hypothetical ATLA world, it's about justifying patting themselves on the back because they aren't shipping the dirty, deviant ship. It's just pretentious and stupidly unserious. There's no reason to be mad at other people for shipping the horrible things they're making up in their heads because most people aren't (and because getting mad about how people are having fun is both incredibly childish and sounds like a miserable existence x.x get a hobby). That is their own fabrication. They're fighting ghosts.

But you know, shoutout to the literal one person out there who is romanticizing Zuko locking Katara up in a tower somewhere, I guess. Or whatever these people convince themselves of to stay mad about hypothetical thought crimes.

[this-is-a-witty-url]

im begging the zutara fandom to ship with no regrets; i see so many posts by zutara shippers being like "i respect the canon but" or "the live action will probably follow the canon and that's okay but" and its like fuck the canon. lol zutara is better than the canon. ship that shit proudly. this fandom didn't last two decades because us og shippers cared about what bryke thought lol

[cloakedlizard]

Yeah sad so many people feel the need to justify LIKING SOMETHING (or disliking something) to bullies. Understand who you’re justifying stuff to. These people are getting mad you have a different opinion. They’re getting mad at just the thought other people might be having fun if it’s not about them and their ship and their preferences in their specific way (actual toddler behavior). They are thought policing. They are deeply unhappy individuals lol. This is who you’re justifying things to, and it will never be enough because they are LOOKING to be inflammatory.

If someone hates your favorite bunch of pixels in their own space, the only normal human reaction should be: "None of my business." You know what's not a normal human response? Scouring their page to ragebait yourself (to then justify attacking them). That's what these people do just to feel something. Their scrutiny is deeply unserious, and you don't need to say, "I promise I don't hate your pookie!" to get them to leave you alone because their demands are ridiculous; they have no right to your mind for crying out loud. Like whatever you want. Hate whatever you want. It's your page. They can block you or close the tab if they don't like it. This is Internet 101.

[ecoterrorist-katara]

Honestly 80% of the reason I ship Zutara is because I believe both Katara and Zuko deserve simps, and they both are simps. Simp x simp supremacy

[five-flavor-soup]

PLEASE SO TRUE. they are courting birds.

[cloakedlizard]

It's why Zuko joining the group and being Katara's friend and having her back was such a payoff. She constantly does everything for everyone else and finally gets someone who puts that same effort in for her.

They are the Lovergirl x Loverboy dynamic of all time

[firelord-boomerang]

okay everyone, most ridiculous way to reveal that jet isn't dead. i'll start:

he shows up as an ambassador of Omashu because King Bumi saw him one time not even doing anything and thought "that kid's got moxy"

[cloakedlizard]

Zuko goes to confront his father on the Day of Black Sun and Ozai is weirdly unresponsive for a while and then it's revealed it was a cardboard cutout all along, which falls to the floor to reveal Jet, arms crossed and vindicated: "So the truth comes out, Lee."

[evidently-endless]

being offered ai at every turn

[xxmilkandsugarxx]

Katara is right where she wants to be....

they have all dated each other with varying degrees of success, so they decided it was easier to just all be together at the same time.

I imagine in this AU they met in high school and have been a constant in each others life throughout college, and now live with each other navigating the highs and lows of young adult hood!

fun fact, in highschool they made a club called DMC ( Dead Moms Club) which some found funny ( Sokka) and others morbid ( Aang) :))

[titaniarts]

my dear zutara…

[the-badger-mole]

have you seen the new Obsession movie? does it give you any thoughts about aang or k/t//ng?

It's the fact that in both couples, the male lead imposes on the girl's autonomy instead of actually having an honest conversation with her about his feelings (Bear with his wish and Aang with thinking that forcing a kiss on Katara solidified his claim on her). Obviously, Obsession isn't operating under the delusion that Bear is the hero in the story, so it's a lot more honest about what a nightmare that experience was for Nikki, but seeing how Katara was written post ATLA and what her dynamic with Aang was like, it would be incredibly easy to make that relationship into a similar horror story.

[cloakedlizard]

THE WAY I STOPPED MYSELF a while back from making a post saying "Hardcore Kataang defenders should watch Obsession. No reason."

[itsblobross]

Zutara as cats 🌊 🔥

For the fabulous @crazy-ache 🩷 your birthday was too far away so I hope you don’t mind getting a Father’s Day present 😋 you are a talent and a gem and I wish for the encouragement and support you show to others to come back to you x1000 🩷 I hope you like Zu-cat and Cat-ara!!

[lennenart]

Yeah, decided to watercolor this one and I have no regrets~

[captainzutara]

is the boiling rock "problematic" too by the antis' definition? If it's "problematic" to make an AU of Katara wearing FN military attire to infiltrate from within, then what the fuck did they think about Sokka in Fire Nation soldier and warden clothing doing the same thing???

[cloakedlizard]

They didn't even hesitate to start dragging people the second they found something they wanted to be mad about to the point that they didn't even do the research to find out what the AU was about; most of them didn't know and still don't know they're meant to be undercover in the AU before they started raging into the void. Although, I'll still say it doesn't matter what it was about. Harassing and attacking people for making harmless fan art is still an activity reserved for bad, miserable people.

Also, it's far more problematic to act like someone of xyz identity group is too fragile to be permitted in morally complex situations and stories. Idk what Katara they're talking about that would "never wear those colors" when she wore those colors to be undercover in the Fire Nation easily. Also, Katara, if presented with a way to end the war, would take it immediately and not weigh the lives she could save against her distaste in something as stupid as an outfit. Like seriously this is so ridiculous lmao

And the clothing thing reminds me of a comment I saw from someone that stuck with me. "Canon outfits? Buddy, they're people. They wear clothes."

Like I understand that ATLA, because animation is a heavily visual storytelling medium, relies a lot on colors to easily communicate information and character associations and the like. But no one is becoming severed from their culture by wearing a different outfit. That genuinely feels like "race traitor" talk. Like, do you think in this world everyone wears one color their whole life? Do you think Zuko burned the whole rest of her wardrobe? Katara is not being oppressed because she's depicted wearing red in fan art lmao.

And if people are disproportionately dressing her up as Fire Lady in fanon as is often claimed, it's because Zuko is the only character with a defined ending in ATLA and it's framed as one that doesn't have a ton of alternatives or ways for him to get out of it without screwing up the peace of the world. He doesn't have any known relatives capable of ruling except for afk Iroh. While the potential activities of the rest of the group are left open-ended.

Anyway, caring what other people do in their FICTIONAL STORIES is the biggest nonissue I've ever seen people get this riled up about in my life. Next to like, me having opinions about characters on my "My Opinions About Characters" blog on Tumblr. Kindergarten is calling.