The One Where He Ships Sam And Dean

Ackleholic. Wincest shipper (Bottom Sam) J2 shipper (Not a Tinhat; Bottom Jared) Future Soldier Boy enthusiast. Gay. Autistic. Fanfiction Writer (Aspiring Novelist) Future Walker Fan. Scorpio. Ship and Let Ship. q

[alignallofthelights]

Social Media Trending Analysis: Walker vs. DeanCasWedding

Social Media Metrics for Duke 1x05

Now that it’s the next day after the premiere of Duke, the fifth episode of the first season of Walker, I wanted to share the insights I found. Last night #Walker trended to #3 at United States Twitter Trending Top 30. During the course of the evening the show accumulated an excess of 12.3K, some additional hash-tags that trended during the course of the live tweeting included: #SendLoveToTexas and #Micki. 

It’s come to my attention that during the live tweeting a Destiel fan posted some information concerning the social media analysis which directly compared the #DeanCasWedding to #Walker. I will share the tweet for ease of reference. 

As you can see there are a number of issues with this data/cross analysis. I’ll begin to go through them point by point and then do a cross comparison of the two campaigns side by side. 

First and foremost you will see from the tweet in question that the poster did a 7-Day analysis between #Walker and #DeanCasWedding. This means that during the time #Walker was trending they completed a report that ran from 2/12-2/18. For those who are unaware #DeanCasWedding trended on 2/14, and Walker airs regularly on Thursdays. The past two Thursdays were 2/11 and 2/18. The poster is comparing a 7 Day analysis of a hash-tag to one that surges on Thursday during a live-tweet. The author is comparing apples to oranges. 

Secondly, Nielsen and Networks, don’t care about 7 Day reports and trends unless they are news programs or soap operas who have content being shared with public audiences every day or every week. There is no reason for them to monitor chatter in this way. Additionally Nielsen does not care about anything outside of the 7 hour airing window of the show in question. For example if you want your tweets to count towards the network/show and Nielsen’s top tweeted shows and your show of preference airs at 8 PM, only tweets from 5 PM - 12 AM will count towards the shows social media presence. Networks and content providers don’t care about anything outside of those hours. Which again shows how meaningless a 7-Day report is for social media concerning television series, and why I won’t track hash-tags outside of the day/time it trends. 

Now that those quick details have been addressed, I’m going to do a side-by-side analysis of the two hash-tags when they trended on the dates in question #DeanCasWedding on 2/14 and #Walker during the live tweet of 2/18. For those who are interested in seeing my original report on the DeanCasWedding trend data it’s here for reference. 

#DeanCasWedding

As shared before this is the most important data from the #DeanCasWedding. It trended on Twitter’s United States Trending Top 30 at #4 on 2/14, and generated a collective 46.3K tweets before it stopped trending at around 10-11PM EST. As mentioned before this campaign had a very high retweet threshold 67%, and a very high portion of the contributors had accounts that have been active for less than 1 year (26%), this is a high indication of sock puppet accounts/fake accounts. The average Destiel fan account tweeted 5-8 times on average to make the hash tag trend over the course of the 10-11 hours, with some of the top contributors tweeting an excess of 400 times. All this is provided in the report shared earlier.  

What does that mean? I want to zero in on the contributors column and the reach, because this is the heart of it all. Although they had 5.3k people contribute to their campaign the conversation was very insular, that means that the people tweeting likely had the same audience, same followership, and in general the same handles talking back and forth in a very small pool of people trading comments between one another. I will do a comparison to #Walker’s premiere later on because it’s the only other campaign I have record of that had a similar tweet threshold and trended for around the same time (During it’s premiere #Walker and #Jared Padalecki trended for 15 hours, peaked at #4 on Twitter’s Top 30, and generated 59.6K tweets). 

The bottom line here is that even though #DeanCasWedding was able to trend the substance is not meaningful due to the factors of reach, retweeting non-original content and sock accounts polluting the tag with what networks really value which is eye-balls reaching the tag and new people either learning or engaging with show/content. 

#Walker (1x05, “Duke”)

Looking at the data side by side, you will begin to notice a few differences. Some are intuitive. #DeanCasWedding had more tweets 43.6k to Walker’s Duke 12.3k, and as such they had more tweets and contributors. This makes sense, the hash tag trended longer, and Duke is in episode 5. However look at the reach between each of these campaigns. 

Duke’s Walker was able to reach 6.5 Million people, compared to DeanCasWedding’s 3 Million. Again this 12.3K+ tweet hash tag that trended for a handful of hours when the episode aired, was able to out reach a hashtag that trended for 10-11 hours on a Sunday with less competition, and on a day where people have more disposable time. This was also in light of Texas going through a major power outage, and understandable concern in addition to more topics taking light away from Walker (understandably and rightly so I may add). 

What this shows is that the individuals who are contributing to the Walker hash tag are diversified, meaning they have different account followings, different accounts who are live tweeting, and that the reach of these individuals is beyond that of Supernatural, and that they are engaging with more people overall. Even though Walker had ~30K less tweets than #DeanCasWedding the economical value of this hash tag is greater because of the reach, and the fact that the contributors are truly diverse from each other (i.e. they are all not retweeting and retargeting towards the same audiences, and double dipping and speaking with the same accounts). 

This can be seen in the number of original tweets created during each campaign. Walker’s Duke had 6.2K original tweets for a 12.3K hash tag, while DeanCasWedding had 13.7K original tweets for a 46.3K hash tag. 

Here is another interesting factor, the age of the twitter accounts who participated in this hash tag are lower than the DeanCasWedding one, showing the likelihood for less fake accounts. Walker has 18% of these newer accounts, while DeanCasWedding has 26%. Again why does a Destiel have so many users with less than 1 year accounts when the ship has existed for 13 years?  

Conclusion

What’s my point with this? Just because something has a high tweet count doesn’t mean it’s actually valuable as a social media campaign. It’s more important to go deeper into the data and understand who is interacting and how they are interacting. The number of tweets is just a small portion of a larger picture. 

I’m going to make my last point here because I know the Extreme Destiel fans are children and they will likely only look at the contributors column and boast how they have more people tweet over their campaign (ignoring the fact that it  took them weeks for several of the content creators to prepare for the date in question, and that they jumped on the fandom wagon from Samantha and Chad with the Roadhouse AU twitter roleplay), and so I want to dispel the notion here by sharing the Walker Premiere data. 

Walker Premiere

As mentioned above the Walker premiere trended for 15 hours on January 21st, peaked at #4 on the Twitter Trending Top 30, and generated 59.6K tweets. As you can see here the total contributors for the premiere far out scale and outweigh any numbers of the Destiel fan made wedding, and ultimately this is the reason why I don’t think any of their smear campaigns, jealousy and angry tweeting matter. The economic value of Walker is more than 7 times greater than the value of Destiel. 

When you compare similar scaling trends it’s clear #Walker is way bigger than Destiel is. 9.2K contributors, 5k individuals creating original content during the premiere, a retweet rate of 3-4, and wait for the K.O.

Look at that reach. 102 Million for Walker vs. 3 Million for Destiel. To further add salt to the wound: 

Minimal to no bot accounts. 

#micdrop

[destiel-sucks-i-know-that-now]

And the Destiel hellers have been planning for weeks to hashtag the fuck out of the lol Dean Cas fake wedding that included content creators and campaigns. The Walker fandom wasn’t planning any hashtag campaigns and just were live tweeting the day of, that’s much more organic, diverse, and as you said, more far reaching and influential.

[alignallofthelights]

Dean Cas Wedding Tweet Report

Now that the dust has settled, I wanted to do a quick after action report on the #DeanCasWedding trend. For those who aren’t aware. #Dean Cas Wedding trended on Twitter, based on some recurring Supernatural castmates sending a tweet about Dean and Cas getting married at the roadhouse. 

Destiel fans ran with this theory and created a fictional wedding between Dean and Castiel on Valentines Day. The hash tag trended for 8 hours, and peaked at #4 on Twitter’s United States trending top 30. In the end it generated 46.3k tweets. 

I am doing a deeper social media analysis of the hash tag findings to better understand Destiel fan activity, during this campaign please. Further details are shared here as follows: 

Overall Campaign Metrics

As posted before the majority of this campaign was based on retweets - 67% of this campaign was based off of retweets from 13.7k original tweets. 33% of the campaign came from original content. For scale that means of the 46.3k tweets that were generated during the Dean Cas Wedding trend ~30k came from retweets. 

This means that the Destiel fan base has a predilection to retweet and spamming continuously to get their hash tags to trend.

Size of Destiel’s Fanbase/Stanbase

So this is the interesting story. Of the individual who participated in the campaign there were 2.6k active contributors, 5.3k total contributors, this means we can deduce that 2.7k or so were just retweet contributors. The 2.7k numbers are “passive” contributors in that they did not create any new content with their tweets. While the 2.6k active participants are the tweeters who created original content that fueled the hashtag. This means that 5.3k people in total fueled enough content to create a 43.6k hashtag campaign. 

Supernatural’s Viewership Cross Reference

For context the average Supernatural episode in the last season attracted 1.1 million viewers. Quick facts to put this in perspective: 

For every 208,000 general fan of Supernatural you will find 1 Destiel, Misha Minon, or Destiel Extreme shipper stan

Destiel as a fanbase is less than 1% of the Supernatural audience/fan base (precisely less than .5% of the general audience)

The average Destiel fan tweets 5-8 times to get something to trend

When an extreme Destiel fan screams that “they made Supernatural what it is”, “that they are the majority of the audience”, and that everyone wanted “Dean and Castiel together”, show them these numbers. All in all, the reach of this fanbase is quite small. Their hash tag campaign had an overall reach of 3 million people. 

Cross comparison: Destiel’s hash-tag vs. Walker’s Live Tweeting

For scale Walker reached 12 million people when they trended for “Don’t Fence Me In” with a fraction of the tweets they had (46.3k vs. 11.7k). 

#DeanCasWedding (2/14)

#Walker (Don’t Fence Me In, Live Tweet 2/11)

What Corporations Value

This is why Supernatural and CW executives do not take Destiel and their hash tag campaigns seriously. 67% of this campaign is basically just re-tweets, which is what devalues this campaign in terms of meaningful social media engagement that corporations and stations look for. The value of the campaign is not there despite the high tweet count (Trended at #4, and generated 46.3k tweets but with no substance). The problem for Destiel fans is that their conversation is all insular, which is why the reach is so small. You have a max of 5k people talking about a ship, and a less than 3k actually pushing it. It is basically just these small .5% of audience members talking to each other and passing the ball between themselves back and forth.  

Destiel’s existing echo chamber

If you are interested in knowing who those individuals are look no further. I broke down the Top 10 Most active members during the campaign and top 10 for original tweets and retweets. You may see some familiar faces: 

Lastly, we will delve into the age of the twitter accounts who were active during the campaign. 

As seen here a sizable portion of this tweet campaign comes from twitter accounts that are less than 1 year old. This is an obvious indicator for multiple accounts and fake accounts. It shows that the two biggest splits here are twitter accounts that are less than 1 year old, and others that are 6 years or older. Combine this finding with the retweet threshold (67%) it’s highly likely that there  is some double dipping going on here. Remember the average Destiel account retweets things 5-8 times. As we can take a look from the most popular tweeters during the campaign some of them tweeted an excess of 400 times just from one handle. The top 10 tweeters during the campaign generated 3k tweets just amongst themselves.  

As such it’s likely that the 5.3k number shared here is inflated, with much of this engagement coming from fake accounts, double accounts which aren’t a genuine reflection of actual population size. I hypothesize that about a third of this fanbase is a result of multiple accounts. Especially since many Destiel fans say that they’ve been watching since season 4. How is it that a third of the audience just came aware of Destiel in the past year, when Castiel has been on the show since Season 4? 

Summary

The Destiel fans need things to cling onto. Often when they try to trend spontaneously as in response to Misha’s instagram video on the 13th the trend only got 8k tweets before it collapsed. They need to latch onto a social justice themes to trend (Eileen), they need to latch onto Jensen and Dean’s fanbase along with LGBTQIA+ representation that exists in other fanbases to partner in order to trend (Shameless Gallavocih, MCU’s Stucky and Teen Wolf’s Sterek). But even for all of their efforts it doesn’t really mean anything in the end, when you look at the numbers and review the context.

In conclusion, I know this is a long post but I wanted to double down on a few things. The Destiel, Misha Minon, Extreme Destiel fans are not the majority. They don’t have a lot of power amongst their group. The economic value of this hash tag campaign doesn’t compare to the likes of live tweeting events generated from the CW during their live tweet shows: Batwoman, Legacies or Riverdale. Definitely not Walker. Even when they try to trend with all their might they can’t equal or make a significant dent in social media engagement that means anything to the network. This is why the CW has ignored them. As such I hope that this tumblr post can help people understand how small the fanbase is, and how their bullying and smear campaigns are insignificant and don’t amount to anything. I hope this number can give people perspective and context to what this crazy stan base has led to with all their tantrums, doxing, anti-voting sprees and generally toxic behavior. Ultimately I hope this post shows that they are insignificant. Let’s let them be so. 

[nancylou444]

[jaredtheknightranger-deactivate]

It still doesn’t make it canon. 😂😂😂😂

[alignallofthelights]

I’ll be honest, I have been waiting for this for sometime to really begin to crunch the numbers and understand how big the Destiel fans/Heller fan base truly is. So I am glad that they did this campaign. I can finally use data to capture the magnitude of this twitter Stan base. 

This is trending at #10 on United States Trends. So far with 11.4k tweets. This is more than Misha got yesterday for his instagram video which helped him trend for a couple of hours with 8k tweets. 

From the report I ran these are the top influencers in the hashtag: 

Sub-hash tags: 

You want to know what’s most fascinating though: 

When people tell you Destiel is the “majority of the audience”, show them these numbers. Only 800 people are producing original content, the rest of the contributors are just retweeting it. That’s a 50/50 split between content creation, and just retweeting. That’s useless in terms of overall engagement. You want people to interact and create during a trend campaign, not just retweet content from someone else. The average Destiel account is producing 4-6 tweets in order to get their hash tag to trend. All in all, the reach of this fanbase is quite small: 

They are basically just retweeting and spamming ad infinitum. Another interesting thing. The age of the accounts are super young (meaning mostly bot or fake accounts). Showing that they create new accounts just to bot farm, retweet, and hash-tag as much as possible. 

Lastly, the hash tag value of this campaign is nothing. Do not believe Destiel fans when they tell you their campaigns matter, they don’t. 

[touchstarvedsam]

Thinking about little Sammy making a Valentine's Day card for Dean in kindergarten because the teacher told the class to make one for their parents or someone very important to them to bring home and make them happy. So Sam makes the sweetest little card for Dean and brings it home, all dimples and bright eyes, and gives it to Dean with excitement. Dean, who made a card for their dad the hero, didn't expect to get a card from his little brother and he maybe cries a little about it, gratefully taking the card from Sammy and cherishing it.

Every year they keep up that tradition, Dean makes a card for their dad -- making Sammy sign it too because he knows Sammy's card is all for Dean -- and Sammy makes better and better cards each year.

The cards for John stop when Dean gets to middle school, but the cards for Dean just keep coming every year.

Sammy got picked on and called a girl for drawing a Valentine's card in 7th grade, so he got scared thinking Dean felt the same, that Dean hated it and thought it was girly, and threw that one in the garbage and never made one again. Sam doesn't care about anyone's opinion but Dean's.

So when he comes home for the first time without a Valentine's Day card for Dean, Dean doesn't say anything but he's bummed. He's a sophomore in high school; he shouldn't be upset that his little brother didn't give him a Valentine when he's got hot cheerleaders giving him Valentine's, right? Right.

They get through it. They move on and throughout the years they forget all about Sam's little cards and how much Dean loved them, and they're normal.

Then decades later, Sam's going through Dean's bedroom in the bunker looking for things he wants to take with him and keep. He's got a duffel with a few of Dean's things, Dean's dead guy robe resting on top, but he wants to see if there's anything else before he says goodbye to the bunker forever. He roots around Dean's desk, opening drawers, laughing about dumb little things Dean's kept over the years, when he finds a little worn box in the bottom drawer. He pulls it out and opens it with trepidation.

Inside is 7 years worth of the Valentine's Sammy made for Dean each year, and Sam blinds himself with his tears. That box comes with him when he says his final goodbyes.

[ddeclub]

Destiel Doesn’t Exist

Destiel just doesn’t exist.. so, I’m starting an organisation that quite literally solely consists of myself. It’s not to spread hate or anything in that direction, just to discuss the complete and absolute absurdity that is the existence of Hellers.

[nothingidputbeforeyou]

Since apparently some people are giffing only one sentence of this from fuzzy, hard-to-see video clips, several anons requested that I do the whole thing. So here it is. Start to finish with nothing omitted. Draw your own conclusions. 

Also? I had to include Jared in that one gif because his face was literally this emoji 😬😬😬 when he saw how mad Jensen was. 

Here’s the video from thiniassk in it’s entirety so you can see for yourselves.

JIBCon 10 for multiple requests

[arwenadreamer]

Wharning: What I have to say is going to be anti Destiheller and also rather anti Misha. (Not anti Destiel shipper, just anti people who want Destiel canon at any cost.) I was seeing all these gifs and snippets from the panel floating around. Some pro Destiel, some anti. So I wanted to see for myself. Often gifs and short videos carry only a tiny bit of the truth and can even warp it into something else. So I went ahead and watched the whole Jensen/Misha panel that soon became the Jensen/Misha/Jared panel. And oh boy, was it painful to watch.

Keep reading

[hello-nicolexoxo-love]

Bless you for this. Because its spot on .

Also , normal destiew shippers and normal fans of Misha , us antis have no problem with you guys . Its the extremists who ruin everything.

[kassyjay]

You know I bet my watch on it that if those extreme destiel shippers didn’t behave the way they do, Jensen would be fine with the questions. Doesn’t mean he’ll ship destiel, but he wouldn’t be all pissed and annoyed by it.

Sure some of destiel shippers say “oh but he gets like that every time destiel gets mentioned”. Can’t blame him for that. You know why? Because Jensen has stated his opinion on destiel before in a convention in a very nice, polite, and humble way. He said that he didn’t see destiel in a romantic way, but more a a friend/family sort of way. He brought the point that dean called cass that he’s like a brother to him. And he still got called a homophobe! And then there is so much more than these fans had done that make me facepalm or roll my eyes.

All I’m saying, is that the people to blame for Jensen being that way with destiel, is those extreme fans that behave like assholes. those that are saying stuff like Jensen has to put up with it because he’s an actor and he’s getting paid money, or that he needs to act professional about destiel or whatever. No! Jensen doesn’t need to just because he’s an actor and getting paid money. That’s just absurd. Yes Jensen is an actor, but he’s still a human that has feelings, topics that he doesn’t feel comfortable taking about, and gets annoyed. Jensen has been professional about destiel, he’s just fed up.

Now I’m not going to blame the person that wore that shirt, if that’s what they wanted to wear, then 🤷‍♀️. But I am blaming misha for this. In my opinion, I don’t think Jensen hates misha, and I honestly think they are work friends. But I do believe that jensen gets annoyed with him especially regarding destiel. I honestly agree that misha needs to cool it with destiel, especially if it’s not going to happen. At least Jensen is not getting anyone’s hopes up. But misha pointing out that shirt, when he knows how Jensen feels about destiel, was just a bad move. Way to start yet another drama misha.

[touchstarvedsam]

Did....did that heller that reblogged your post...did they just explicitly put down aro people??? And they claim to be pro lgbt? This proves how it’s not about rep or lgbt rights, it’s about their ‘give me what I want, you better make only me happy, don’t care about anyone else lgbt or otherwise’ mentality. Finally some insight into their delusional craziness.

What’s kind of sad is I’m not even sure they’re a heller. I think they just really think that Dean’s bi and they blatantly choose to ignore canon. After watching the show for 13 years, for some reason. How you can watch it for that long and still miss the point so hard, I will never know. It seems like a personal goal for them: how much can I get wrong about the show? The answer is all of it.

But my thing is, I’m aro and their reblog invalidated the fuck out of me. But while I’m aro, I am also ace and bisexual. So them assuming my sexuality is toxic as fuck. And beyond that, they complain about misogyny and then go and refer to Sam’s wife as a walking uterus. Yeah, you’re really fighting against misogyny there, you insipid juicebox. Please continue to watch the show through metas and gifs on tumblr. It doesn’t make you look dumb at all.

Like, whatever, you can headcanon a character whatever way you want. Write them however the fuck you want in fanfiction. But for the love of god, respect the actual fucking canon. Pay attention when Dean blatantly says “I don’t swing that way,” because it doesn’t mean, “I’m a raging homosexual you’re just not my type,” it fucking means he is straight. He has said three times he is not into men, but y’all choose to ignore it to force your toxic stereotypical headcanons onto him. Every single reason these psychos give as “proof” that Dean is a bisexual man is toxic. They only fetishize him. They don’t give a fuck that he’s straight in canon, they want to see Jensen make out with and get fucked by a man on screen. It’s disgusting fetishization. Yes, I did mean to say Jensen, because it is about Jensen to them.

And speaking of Jensen, he literally said that he and M*sha don’t play their characters that way meaning 1. together, and 2. gay. Jensen confirms straight Dean, Kripke referred to them as straight guys, because it’s how they were written, some other people on the crew have literally debunked the “bisexual plaid” theory by saying colors of clothing do not dictate a character’s sexuality, as well as the lighting used for some scenes. None of it was a nod to Dean being bi, it was just wardrobe and lighting that fit the scene. These people are literally crazy if they think that a character’s sexuality is based on the colors he wears.

And besides that... the way they portray Dean in fics? They feminize the everliving fuck out of him, to the point that the character they’re writing isn’t even Dean. Like, in any way, shape, or form. They literally warp Dean’s personality until he’s unrecognizable because deep down they see that their takes are wrong so they force the “housewife” role onto him in fics. Because Dean loves to cook in the bunker. That right there is misogynistic. They consider Dean the “wife” because he does “womanly” things like enjoying cooking. And they complain that Supernatural had a misogynistic ending while calling Sam’s wife a walking uterus in the same breath? Fuck right the fuck off with your toxic bullshit. We see you, we know your games, and we know that it’s about your fetish not representation.

If it was actually about representation, they wouldn’t be fucking sleeping on Walker. Walker’s younger brother Liam is canonically gay, strong, smart, confident, and dominant. They literally gave this character no toxic stereotypes. But fuck that show, right? Because Dean wasn’t made bi or in love with CastieI. I am just so sick of the harmful stereotypes, the “fake woke” mentality, the slacktivism, and the hate for Jared when Jared was never the problem. I want these stupid fucking kids to get off my lawn and go back to watching fucking Paw Patrol.

[e-asytiga]

it's 2021 and dumb ass stiel shippers still think that liking Dirty Dancing means you must be queer bc it's popular among the LGBT+ community.

NEWS FLASH, there are many straight men that secretly like chick flicks. this doesn't mean they want to suck dick. it's more telling to me, as a gay man, of Dean's heterosexuality bc of the fact that he doesn't want to admit that he likes them. which he eventually does, bc at a certain point, after all of the shit that they have gone through in their lives, liking chick flicks wouldn't scratch the surface.

that brings me to my next point. insisting that he's closeted and pinned down by internalised homophobia or whatever bc of the speculative crap that John put him through as a kid, is telling me, a gay man, that liking men as another man is more shameful than the plethora of things that the Winchester's did in their lives. like Dean deciding not to let Sam close the gates of Hell bc it would have meant that Sam would die, and then violating Sam's autonomy to allow an angel to possess his vessel without his knowledge simply bc he could not live with the idea of Sam dying. they left innocent people to die. they dug up graves. they tortured people. they got people killed on their crusade. Dean even went to Hell for 40 years. are you really suggesting that being attracted to the same sex is a worse fate than those things?

Dean has shown canonically that he has zero issues with queer people. Charlie became a sister to him and he loved her dearly. there was also the gay hunter duo Jesse and Caesar, who he showed no discomfort around after he found out that they were a couple, and didn't hesitate to let them help him up after they saved him in the woods. closeted people tend to distance themselves from anyone that might be able to clock them. dean didn't care. he treated them just like anyone else. there was also the gay couple that dressed up as him and Sam at the convention. the akward part was realising they were gay and roleplaying them, but he had no issue with them being together.

by insisting that you have to be queer to like certain things or act a certain way, you're adding to the problem instead of helping to educate that the things you like/dislike are not predetermined by who you like to sleep with.

Dean not only tells us he's straight 4 or 5 times bc you didn't get the memo again and again and again, to the point where they purposefully showed you his dating profile so they could reiterate, once again, that his only interest is women--he shows us, too. he is only shown to be sexually attracted to women. not men. he is only shown to flirt with women. not men. even that part where he's directing Charlie on how to flirt to that guy, HE'S not directly flirting with him. and it's easy to figure out how to keep a guy Interested when you are a guy. and the crap with the cop is part of his whole cock-of-the-walk attitude. if you think that Dr. Sexy was a prospect for him, you have to think about WHO that guy resembles and then ask yourself if you REALLY want his type to be his little brother. he admires the guy bc he wears cowboy boots and sleeps with hot women, as a Dr. that's pretty cool to a guy like Dean. he's also a secret fan of the show.

it's the same situation with the Wrestler. Dean likes wrestling. millions of straight men like wrestling. it's not that deep. he drank with him and others, fell asleep and beer-farted himself awake. if you think that's what dating is like, try leaving the house when covid is over.

if you think he's bi bc he crosses one foot over the other, consider that Jensen has bow legs and he might be trying to keep them out of frame for his own personal reasons. and also, that's a generalisation. if you think he's bi bc he wears his shirts open, queer people statistically are more likely to button theirs up. again, that's a generalisation. the point is to not do that. people are people. if they feel comfortable sitting/standing a certain type of way, it's because they are mimicking someone else or they just want to. it doesn't tell you anything about who they take to bed with them. my brother sits like an owl sometimes with his knees up to his chest and we've had the conversation about sexuality where he thought he might be bi bc he admired the dudes at the gym. I asked him if he wanted to date any of them, kiss any of them, touch any of them in a certain way and he said no to each one. he just envied what they had. there's nothing wrong with a guy noticing another man is handsome. it doesn't make them bi or gay or whatever. I can see how stunning women like Beyonce, Rita Ora, Rihanna, Cheryl Cole, are, and I have no interest in sleeping with any of them. but I would be flustered like Dean was in Changing Channels if I was face to face with them bc that's called being star struck.

anyway, what films you like has nothing to do witb sexuality.

Dean Winchester is Straight. stop trying to cram him into a box to suit your ideals for him and start loving him for who he is. he's good with who he is. why aren't you?

[thetruthaboutsubtext]

I’m not being funny but the actual incest shippers are seeing way less incest in the ending than other people who are into shipping Dean and Cas or from other fandoms. Supernatural has effectively criticised and then accidentally PROVED that there is some level of toxic masculinity and expectation attached to straight men in society that shouldn’t be there any more.

If the only possible way you can interpret Sam and Dean’s love is ‘incest’ then it says more about you than about the show. Even Wincest shippers know that, why is this fandom like this though honestly? This is the craziest situation I’ve ever seen. Like the only shippers who are totally chill and fun and understood the plot are the incest shippers? Seriously? Wild! Lol

[amoreanonyname]

I was starting to write a thing here, but it started turning into a really long thing, and I realized much of that thing wasn’t actually all that connected to the main point of this post. Take two.

But what bothers me about some of the particularly virulent antis is, to start with, the effort to distil complex relationships down to sex. Which, actually, is a common tactic used by homophobic people, and is honestly sad and a little worrying. People pick up those arguments from somewhere. But when I see someone trying to take messy, complex, loving, committed relationships of any kind and boil them down to bad-touching and bodily fluids… there’s a stunning lack of nuance there, and almost a deliberate attempt to avoid even trying to see the layers.

The problem is, with a show like Supernatural, a major aspect of all the relationships is their complexity, their lack of conventionality, their overlapping roles and boundaries. I honestly don’t understand the desire to “boil them down” - any of them.

Sam and Dean obviously have a layered, messy, complicated relationship. Admittedly I’m a wincest shipper, but I’ve never quite understood the people who try to present their relationship as a normal brotherly or familial relationship. Their relationship is the driving force of the show. It’s not supposed to be normal. It’s supposed to be a blend of parent and child, brothers, friends (because they often had none), brothers-in-arms, and, yes, spouses, with added layers of “soulmates” and “lived 80% of their lives in close quarters with zero privacy and almost complete isolation from the wider world.” Their relationship is supposed to be excessive and unhealthy, their boundaries are porous, there are inappropriate overtones, there’s jealousy and possessiveness and need and fear and a religious level of devotion and a commitment between them that, as of the finale, exceeds most marriages.

At the same time, obviously they’ve never had sex and never wanted to. Probably find the idea pretty gross.

Dean and Cas are also supposed to be layered and complicated. They are friends and allies and family from extremely different backgrounds with extremely different ways of seeing the world. Their relationship touches on questions of faith and loyalty and acceptance and forgiveness and intention and sacrifice. Their relationship makes us ask, what makes a family. Their relationship is about big questions.

At the same time, they’ve never had sex. Dean has never wanted to.

I don’t understand the drive to take these rich, layered, complicated, messy relationships and try to pack them into neat little boxes of any kind. And I really don’t understand why those boxes are based on the idea of who might touch whom’s bathing-suit places. Why the need to categorize? And why categorize based on sex? To me, the whole point of the show is the messiness.

[saltandthemoon]

Jesus Christ, THANK YOU. It is so satisfying to see other fans share in and express my feelings on the relationships in Supernatural, especially Sam and Dean’s. From day one, Sam and Dean as primary life partners and soul mates have been it for me, but I’ve never really seen them as a sexual couple. And that’s a big reason they’ve meant so much to me all these years and why their relationship is so exciting and compelling and joy-giving. They are the only pair I’ve seen or heard about in media since fucking late 2006/early 2007 that legitimately fall in this category of “nonsexual life partners/soul mates who share a cosmically powerful love.” And I’d bet money they remain the only ones for decades to come. American culture/society just doesn’t acknowledge such a relationship, and while they are rare, they do exist. I’ve always known that and always wanted to find one of my own. And yeah, most people don’t get it. Most people can only comprehend human relationships if they fall neatly into “romantic/sexual/primary relationship that follows the heteronormative blueprint of dating to marriage to kids” or “nonromantic/nonsexual friendship that is a emotionally shallow and nonphysical and really not all that important compared to the sexual marriage” category. And because that’s all they understand, they do their damndest to force every relationship they encounter into one of those categories even when the relationship in question clearly does NOT fall into either one. As for why so many of these people adhere so aggressively and blindly to these categories: I believe it’s because of the relationship hierarchy they believe in that puts romantic/sexual relationships far and beyond above nonsexual/nonromantic relationships and the narrative they’ve bought into and recreate about how that One Ultimate Romantic/Sexual Relationship is the be-all, end-all bond between two human beings and therefore SHOULD come before the nonromantic/nonsexual no matter what. Ambiguous relationships defy categorization and thus they defy that predictable, familiar hierarchy. The Dean/Cas fans have been perfectly demonstrating for years this inability to accept or understand that the traditional relationship hierarchy does not exist for all human beings: they see Dean and Cas as a romantic couple and imagine that to mean that Cas is the most important person in Dean’s life because how could it be otherwise if Cas is Dean’s sexual and romantic partner? But 15 years of Dean Winchester’s behavior made it crystal clear that as much as he loves sex (with women), sex has never been more important than Sam. Not even close. No woman he’s ever dated was more important than Sam. Dean’s first choice lifestyle was always having Sam as his primary (nonsexual) partner and keeping his sex life (and Sam’s) on the side. Even if Dean and Cas were romantically in love and having sex, Sam would still be Dean’s number one. That’s just the bottom line. And most people out there don’t get that and can’t get it because that isn’t how they’re wired. So of course to them, they have an easier time seeing sex and incest as an explanation for Sam and Dean’s dynamic and relationship and primacy in each other’s lives. To these people, it’s literally impossible for a nonsexual relationship to be one’s primary partnership or one’s most emotionally compelling relationship. It just Does Not Compute.

As for Sam, I think he was always more inclined or capable of having a conventional romantic relationship than Dean was, but by the time Season 15 rolls around (and arguably way before that), Sam is likewise committed to his and Dean’s relationship as his primary partnership, even if that wasn’t originally what he envisioned for himself when he was a college kid or whatever. While I wasn’t a fan of Sam and Eileen’s romance in S15, I will say that I appreciated one moment in particular: at the beginning of “Last Call,” Sam and Eileen are making hangover breakfast in the kitchen together when Dean passes through on his way out of the Bunker, and Dean is noticeably though politely standoffish, sensing that Sam and Eileen have some romantic tension between them even though it hasn’t been acted on yet. He decides to go on that hunt alone, doesn’t even think to ask Sam to go with, and turns Sam down when his brother says he and Eileen will accompany him. Dean walks out of the kitchen, and Sam follows him alone to question where he’s going and what’s up with him, basically. Dean doesn’t even tell him the truth about going on a hunt, he says “I just need to take a drive and clear my head” and Sam’s response is “Alone?” Dude, you’re talking to one of the deadliest warriors on earth who is also a 40-something year old man. There is no reason to be anxious about him going for a long drive alone. And really, I don’t think Sam was legitimately concerned about Dean in that sense; what he picked up on and was pushing back against is that distance Dean was trying to create between them in reaction to perceiving Sam and Eileen moving toward couple territory. “Alone?” could easily be interpreted as “Without me?” coming from Sam in that scene. And it isn’t “You need to take a drive without me?” but rather “Are you going to start living your life without me, because maybe one day down the line I’ll date somebody again?” Dean ends that interaction with teasing Sam about sex, which clearly is NOT the thing that matters to either one of them and never really has. Dean was always encouraging of Sam’s sex life with women. Sex, in Dean’s mind, might as well be the equivalent of a game night with friends. It’s fun, it’s recreational, it’s got little to no emotional weight. Who Sam fucks–and who Dean fucks, for that matter–is not important to Dean. What’s important is that emotional centrality of their relationship. And clearly, Sam feels exactly the same way by S15 because he cannot allow Dean to leave their home if the motive is to begin a pattern of emotional and physical distance that could threaten their partnership and commitment as the most important one in their lives. Dean does not avoid Sam and Eileen because the two might have sex but because if they become romantically involved, it might demote Dean and his relationship with Sam in Sam’s life. After all, for most other people, that’s exactly what would happen. Dean isn’t going to complain about it or ask Sam point blank to keep him his primary partner despite forming a romantic relationship with a woman, but he’s also not going to accept that sort of thing peacefully and happily, so creating some distance between himself and that potential scenario is Dean’s way of protecting himself and making it easier to stomach the possibility. And what’s so funny and great is that Sam is INSTANTLY like “You don’t get to pull this shit with me unchallenged.” He doesn’t just wave Dean off and go “Cool, have fun, I’ll just be here with my crush.” He tries to stop Dean from leaving without him, and when Dean goes anyway, Sam tells him “Call me if you need anything.” That whole scene is one of the many reasons why it is 100% believable and in line with canon that if Sam really did live to old age after Dean’s death, he was never completely happy or over his grief despite having a kid and a girlfriend/wife for at least a period of time. That normal het lifestyle for Sam, without Dean there, is like the inverse of the ordinary person having friends and family but no lover/spouse. The ordinary person is never going to be happy and satisfied if permanently single, despite good friendships and family relationships; Sam and Dean were never going to be happy without each other as a partner, even if they had a good romantic relationship with somebody else. Anyway, that long-winded tangent to say: they are each other’s most important person, primary partner, soulmate, etc. Despite the fact they don’t have a sexual relationship and do have sex with other people. It’s not conventional or common, but it’s possible. And it works for them.

[thetruthaboutsubtext]

Interesting addition I like it!

[samisadeangirl]

Reblogging for the excellent additions.

[velociraptorsss]

“As for why so many of these people adhere so aggressively and blindly to these categories: I believe it’s because of the relationship hierarchy they believe in that puts romantic/sexual relationships far and beyond above nonsexual/nonromantic relationships and the narrative they’ve bought into and recreate about how that One Ultimate Romantic/Sexual Relationship is the be-all, end-all bond between two human beings and therefore SHOULD come before the nonromantic/nonsexual no matter what.”

To me, this is one of the most telling things about hellers - they have for YEARS insisted that Dean only experienced “growth” was a character if he ended up in a relationship with Castiel and anything less than a full on romance at the end of Dean’s storyline somehow invalidated FIFTEEN YEARS of growth. We literally saw Dean grapple with concepts like “why am I acutally hunting, for me or for my dad?” and “I hate myself and try to hide it” and we saw him come to the realization that he hunts because he wants to help people and he’s good at it and heard him say that he was happy with who he was and proud of what he had accomplished. But because that didn’t go hand in hand with romance (and really specifically a gay romance with Castiel, that’s the only acceptable thing to them), in their eyes, Dean didn’t have any growth at all and even IF he did, it wasn’t worth much because in their tiny minds, “happily ever after” can ONLY be achieved if you end up in a romantic relationship with someone. Hell, they even made sure to mention that Dean and Castiel could settle down with their child. They literally think that the most cliche bullshit - a romantic relationship where two people settle down and have kids - is the ONLY way for Dean as a character to have experienced growth.

So they literally ignored 15 years of canon - hilarious because up until the finale they actually WERE talking about “omg Dean has grown so much!”, they just assumed that the path would end with him and Castiel making out - and are pretending it never happened so they can throw their tantrums about Dean “not getting a happy ending”. Dean being in heaven with his brother (and being able to visit with other loved ones) is not a “real” happy ending for him…because he has no romance. That’s literally it. It’s honestly pathetic that they’re so incapable of finding value in stories that don’t treat romantic love as the be-all, end-all of a person’s life. 

But then again, I expect nothing less of the fanbase who has consistently downplayed Sam’s importance in Dean’s life because they could never accept that a person could place more value onto his familial love than he ever would on any possible romantic love; they literally can’t conceive of any way someone could love their parent/sibling/child more than their romantic partner and that colored their ability to actually watch this show and acknowledge what it was about and it’s part of why they aren’t capable of understanding “how the finale ended up like that” - if you ignore the very clear signals that the show has been telling you for years, of course you can’t understand why it ended in a way that coincided with those signals. But that’s 100% a problem with how they view platonic relationships and ultimately the show itself, not a problem with the writers or the rest of us who got it.

[thetruthaboutsubtext]

This post keeps getting better because people who are smarter than me keep adding to it. I love when that happens!

[arwenadreamer]

Excellent posts. I agree on everything, especially what @saltandthemoon said! There’s just one sentence in there that I have to contradict, because it basically highlights the core problem here.

“The ordinary person is never going to be happy and satisfied if permanently single, despite good friendships and family relationships.”

As an ordinary aro-person I can assure you that I am happy and satisfied with being permanently single, having good friendships and family relationships.

That’s exactly the thing I’ve been struggling with all my life. Am I normal? Is it normal to be happy this way? Other people sure gossip that there’s something wrong with me, I’m not an “ordinary” person.

Through SPN and fandom I’ve learned what an aro is. I’ve realised just why I love Sam and Dean’s relationship so much. It’s a relationship that’s strong, stronger than everything, without being romantic. And I’m not saying despite not being romantic. There’s no despite here. Not wanting or needing a romantic and/or sexual relationship is just as normal and ordinary for many people, as needing one is for others. But I guess it’s still a long way ahead to even talk about that in our society, let alone normalise it.

[aborddelimpala]

Jared Padalecki on the Defining Deaths of ‘Supernatural’ and ‘Walker’

Two very important deaths book-ended Sam Winchester’s journey on the CW’s “Supernatural,” and now one equally emotional loss will set up actor Jared Padalecki’s new on…

Excerpt 

“It was a success story — it was Dean’s success story,” Padalecki reflects on the “Supernatural” series finale. “This guy gave his life for years and years and years and ultimately gave his life to have his No. 1 on the planet live as normal a life as possible.”

Shot amid the COVID-19 pandemic, the “Supernatural” season finale was not a parade of beloved guest stars getting one last good-bye, but instead focused on the Winchester brothers who started it all (with one very special appearance by Jim Beaver). Padalecki confirms for Variety that there was no version he had read that revealed who Sam’s wife was in those flashes through his later years. In the episode, she is seen out of focus, from a long distance.

“I think it was very, very purposely ambiguous and strangely I agreed with that,” he says. “I feel like a lot of what Sam did after Dean died was almost in honor of what Dean would have wanted, and Dean would not have wanted his little brother to marry Eileen, Ruby, someone in the life.”

[bobbysdj]

I think he’s full of bullshit.

[destiel-sucks-i-know-that-now]

Lol according to @bobbysdj blog they wanted a Destiel ending. Sucks for you the finale focused on Sam and Dean and it was almost perfect.

[crimeishard]

Hot take that isn’t a hot take

Like I don’t wanna start drama but at the same time I just want to know what goes through the heads of people in the fandom that actively hate Cas. I just want to know.  Cas might just have one of the most interesting and expanded upon character developments in the show and because of that we see his mistakes. And I understand that some of those mistakes seem irredeemable but compared to the other characters in the show are they really that bad? There have to be people out there that just have no opinion on Cas or fall on a spectrum. Even if you do have a negative opinion of Cas but can explain it nicely I would love to hear it. No crazy Wincest shippers please I don’t have the mental strength to keep reminding you that Sam and Dean are brothers. 

[destiel-sucks-i-know-that-now]

1. Lied about about Lilith being the final seal and lets Sam out of the panic room to ensure that Sam would break it and release Lucifer.  And then he blamed Sam and Dean for ‘destroying the world” and NEVER owning his part.

2. Beat up and kicked Dean nearly to death in the alley when Dean was at his lowest.

3. Lied to Jimmy Novak that he’d take care of Jimmy’s family to get him to say yes to possession the first time, then blackmailing him by threatening to use his daughter as his vessel to get him to say yes again.  Then he abandoned the Novak family for years and when he finally visits Claire, he leaves the underage girl by the side of the road. 

4. Told Dean not to rescue Sam from Hell and then further discouraged him by faking Crowley’s death.  

5.Lied to Sam and Dean and working with Crowley behind theirs backs.  

6. Killed his lieutenant Rachel and his friend Balthazar for doubting him.

7. Released the Leviathans which ultimately lead to Bobby getting killed

8. Broke Sam’s mind just to distract Dean.  Then had a temper tantrum and refused to heal Sam and left him to suffer with the resulting trauma that eventually landed him in a mental institution.  Hey, remember when Cas patted himself on the back for stopping the Apocalypse when it was the Winchester brothers who did most of the work and suffered 180 years of Hell torture for it.  Cas referred to himself as the Winchester guardians even though he told Dean to leave Sam in hell for ETERNAL TORTURE.   And then those warning he gave to Dean about Sam going crazy/dying topside (which again, according to Cas is worse than ETERNAL TORTURE IN HELL) he callously attacked Sam and destroyed the only protection between him and Hell.

9.  Abandoned Dean in Purgatory, even though Dean as the only human there was likely just as much of a “beacon” to the monster souls.

10. Freed Lucifer because he wants to be a hero and not just a helper.

And, Castiel had character development?  Lol, it’s called plot device.

[destiel-sucks-i-know-that-now]

@koriand39r, Cas refused to heal Sam at the start of season 7, remember?  Sam spent all of season 7 hallucinating Lucifer, remember?  Episode 17 it got bad enough that he landed in a mental institution and was only day away from death.  Dean dragged Cas to the hospital without telling him why, and once Cas found out why he tried to run away.  Cas doesn’t get credit for “take on Sam’s crazy” when he’s the reason for Sam’s crazy in the first place.

On the show angels canonically fly faster than monsters, they’re teleporting for Jack sake.  Dean was moving closer to Cas in purgatory and Cas could have teleported to Dean to say “I’m a giant beacon to monsters and I’m trying to protect you” and teleport out.  See, took less than 5 seconds but go on.

Oh so now you’re blaming Cas’s habit of lying by imitating the Winchesters.  Need I to remind you that Cas lied to the Winchesters FIRST.  After he found out about Lilith he lied to Sam and Dean about Lilith being the last seal.  His next lie was about Sam’s soul.  Between Cas’s first and second lie, the Winchesters didn’t lie to Cas.

Sure Sam and Dean have messed up sometimes (they’re human and flawed and bound to) but they have grown and learned from those mistakes whereas Cas never appers to.  So if we’re keeping a tally:

Sam has made a grand total of 2 royal fuck ups (3 if you include trusting Ruby) in the entirety of the show:

1. Unintentionally releasing Lucifer (because everyone, including Cas, lied to him to ensure that he would by making him think that what he was doing would stop Lucifer from being released)

2. Releasing Amara (to save Dean)

Dean has made up to 3 royal fuck ups depending on what you do and do not count:

1. Letting Gadreel possess Sam (to save Sam’s life)

2. If you count him taking on the mark of Cain (since that was the only way to kill Abbadon)

3. If you count the demon!Dean stuff which started out to kill Abbadon (see point 2)

[deanisdarkness]

Isn’t it interesting how the guy who tells the truth, who refuses to give fans false hope, who openly and honestly interacts with the fandom gets all the hate thrown at him?

And actors who do the actual queer-baiting, actors who use popular gay ships to promote themselves get all the love and benefits and positive popularity? 

World is truly upside down.

Listen, I don’t know where you have been, but Jensen has always been consistent on this topic —he never made false promises, he never told you that your ship will be canon, he never attributed romance to the bond between Dean and Cas. He has called them brothers, kindred spirits. He has called Cas family. 

This isn’t the first time you have asked this question. About the “oh-so-special” bond between Dean and Cas. You have been loud, you have been persistent and you have been rude. Jensen has answered you every single time –and unlike Misha, unlike other actors who do the fan-servicing for kicks and clicks–Jensen has always been honest with you. He has never lied to you, never told you to hope for things that aren’t gonna happen. Do you know how admirable that is?

If you are not ready to accept Jensen’s answer then stop asking him these loaded questions. It’s as simple as that. But you don’t do that, do you? You ask the same damn question again and again and aren’t happy until you hear that “yes” from Jensen, until you get Jensen to declare your ship canon. And when Jensen fails to tow the line, you call him names. Ugly names. Hateful names. 

Do you even see what you are doing here? This man has portrayed Dean for last twelve years, this man knows Dean inside and out, this man defined and made Dean Winchester a legend—this man is Dean. The writers may have outlined the character, but Jensen, Jensen becomes Dean, Jensen is Dean. Do you really think that Jensen is not qualified to talk about Dean? Do you think that his thoughts do not matter? Do you think that Jensen is lying and overcompensating? If yes, then I have to pity you. 

Nobody is stopping you from shipping destiel. Nobody is “taking away” your freedom to ship these characters together, nobody has prohibited you from having your theories and head-canons and interpretations.  You can do all that in your fan-space –just like every other fan. It might come to you as a surprise, but shipping is not a new, destiel fandom invented phenomena. There have been ships (yeah, even gay ones, crazy, right?) as long as there have been shows and fans. You and your ship is not some kind of unique, special snowflake, its just another ship in a vast sea of fandom waters. 

Which leads to my next point –Live and let live. You see undying love between Dean and Cas? fine. You see romantic potential between Dean and Cas? fine. But I don’t. Jensen doesn’t. You are allowed to have your version of the story, let me have mine. Let Jensen have his version. Stop pushing your interpretations on other people. On writers, on actors, on your fellow fans. On Jensen. Your ship does not have to be canon for you to enjoy it. Understand that. 

Finally, this show is what it is. This is not a romantic comedy or crime thriller –it has a distinct theme—family. The show is about family, about the platonic bonds between hunters, between men –bonds that are forged in the fire of supernatural horror against the background of violence. The show didn’t promise you canon destiel or bi!dean. So stop demanding it, stop acting like entitled kids –it’s getting embarrassing now. 

[deangirlonfire]

I need to rant about this, because as usual, that side of the fandom has the need to shove their fave and their ship EVERYFUCKINGWHERE.

THE NERVE to compare Jensen with MC. Neither MC, nor his character were screwed over, nor they “deserved better”. Just because you lot think of him as a “3rd lead”, it does NOT make him so. If you honestly thought the character was gonna make it to the end (and gotten your p*rnhub fantasy fullfilled) you were fooling yourselves (and you been fooling yourselves ALL THESE YEARS, and MC was fooling you too). 

This post, right here, PRETENDS to be about Jensen. It’s not, it’s about the other dude and that gd ship, ‘cause I HAVE memory, and I remember all you lot HARASSING Jensen and throwing the H word at him for not shipping it (if you honestly think NOT shipping a slash ship is “h*omoph*bia”, you need to fucking talk to actual victims of said crime and get some perspective). 

Suddenly you all care for Jensen or Dean? SURE JAN. I see through you, you don’t give a fuck about him, or you wouldn’t have harassed and bullied and even CROSSED SOME FUCKING DISGUSTING LINES in the name of your masturbatory fantasy.

So how about you stop bunching them up together? Your fave char got WAY more than he deserved. Count your blessings and leave Jensent the fuck alone.

We Jensen/Dean fans DO NOT NEED YOU, do NOT CLING OF OUR COATTAILS TO BITCH ABOUT YOUR FAVE AND YOUR SHIP

[electric-sympathy]

I love this post. I could have it printed into a blanket and sleep with it. Famesucking snakes like this make me too angry to sit down and formulate a post, but here it is, sitting right in front of me.

[hippychick006]

I have had an entire night’s sleep and I still have more to say on this apparently. 

On the ever increasing list of fallout from this not thought out “revelation” is that yet again Jensen has been the target of homophobic accusations but this time also from outside the fandom because of that farce of a scene pushed by Misha Collins. Jensen whose only crimes have been;

- to say he is playing a straight character

- to say that is not the story they are telling on this show (his show by the way!)

-  to be very careful not to give anything other than “enjoy it in fandom” validation to extreme shippers who have sexually harassed him for years to try to force him to change his opinion on their non existent ship and make it canon

Meanwhile, queerbaiting Collins (whose fans these are) is getting off completely scot free, and is out there

- queerbaiting his fans for years about the ship as it gives him increased status and extended job opportunity

- saying he played castiel as gay despite there being not a single second of evidence in the entirety of supernatural’s run

- owning a company making a profit from selling Destiel merchandise, including a t-shirt that was on sale within hours of the episode airing (and I’m aware that the particular t-shirt says 100% of profits, but profits are after all other costs including whatever arbitrary cut the company decide to take)

- apparently making statements that he personally doesn’t think the bury your gay trope is as important as  making an ambiguous statement in a 2 minute death bed confession.

- he has never once said anything about his toxic fans attacking Jensen and has actively encouraged them in their attacks on the other actors in the show (see my post on Sam Smith for example of where he manipulates the narrative)

Just…  points aggressively, the one that is doing nothing to further lgbtq+ and is only using it for their own agenda and perpetuating harmful representation is right fucking there, overacting his ass off and trying to shaft Jensen behind the scenes with “we didn’t know if Jensen would agree”.  Of course he shouldn’t have agreed to this joke of “representation”!  He actually actively works with the lgbtq+ community and knows what a crock of shit this entire distatsteful mess is.      

[nancylou444]

MC is a attention seeking user. 

[destiew-must-go]

It’s getting worse, because now, since his Soldier Boy is NOT the one who in the comics “has sex with HL” (correct translation: gets r*ped), hellers/hellers adjacents (aka people not in the fandom who were spoonfed all the “spn queerbaited! JA ho*mophobe because he won’t change Dean), are spouting around “he so hom*phbe he put it in his contract to not have gay sex” “EK changed the character just for him” (despite the character being thought out well before he got thr role).

So they are now throwing a tantum because there’s no gay r*pe scene (who cares if it’s gross and an awful way to give “representation”, right? As long as they get the 2 hot dudes going at it… )

Meanwhile, dmitri is out there throwing him under the destiew bus, not even telling a peep to his cult cunts, while at the same time spewing “JA and I are such good friends!”

With friends like that. I rather befriend a boa constrictor, it would be far more loyal and respectful.

[hippychick006]

They have a fetish where they want to force this m/m fantasy on Jensen. It’s very disturbing, I hope The Boys fandom shut that nonsense down quick. And they can do so easily by saying unsurprisingly we don’t consider rape to be legitimate lgbtq+ representation. Thanks, next…

[deanisdarkness]

I used to be bothered by this fandoms' obsession with sub/bottom Dean/Jensen. Now I just laugh at them because it's crystal clear that it's just people projecting their own fantasies on Dean/Jensen and hardly has any basis in reality. The Jensen they see and write in their fanfics and headcanons and meta doesn't exist, and that seem to bother them a lot.

It's kinda sad to think that Jensen had to fight against such stereotypes all his life, only to see his so called fans reduce him to same stereotypes. These fans have a problem with his masculinity, and think he's pretending, think he needs to change just to fit their limited perspective. They are so married to this "pretty, delicate boy" idea they have in their heads that they can't see that Jensen isn't that, that he's a leader, a doer, an alpha in every sense of the word. They'd rather believe in their delusions and call Jensen's entire persona fake than accept the reality, because deep down they can't let go of their stereotypes despite however progressive they claim to be.

[spnasylum]

You’re Shamefully Transparent

Listen up destiel shippers, there are people in the world with real problems. So if you wanna be trying to emotionally blackmail people, harass people, manipulate people into thinking you’re going to harm yourself if you don’t get what you want… good… fucking do it then! I’m so done with you disgusting brats that appropriate every social issue you can latch onto in the name of trying to play some sort of victim because your fanfic ship isn’t canon. Make a mockery of LGBTQ+, mental health? Lying about how apparently your therapist told you how dangerous it is that Supernatural ended the way it did. By the way you’re just showing how overly privileged you are if you do indeed have access to a therapist and choose to waste their time and resources on complaining about TV shows. 

Again, people have real fucking problems. You being fooled by some stupid actor out to make a name for himself (Misha) who teased you and made promises to you that were obviously never going to be fulfilled in order to make money off you is NOT a real problem. The fact you wanna blame any and everyone but him just shows how dumb and brainwashed you are. You wanna tweet the most abhorrently inappropriate and abusive shit to people over your dumb ship day in day out? Spend all day ruining the fandom experience for people who love the show, worked on the show, whatever by invading every space on the internet with your whining and harassment. I’m glad if you’re miserable at this point misery is the only thing you ever truly “deserved”… again PEOPLE HAVE REAL PROBLEMS AND YOURS AIN’T IT you despicable, entitled, trash! 

[electric-sympathy]

On the dishonest use of “but my interpretation” as a get out of jail free card and the normalization of outlandish shipper behavior…

Jensen has said “No” straight up to a “”””bi interpretation”””” multiple times, so don’t use that deflection bullshit with me. He has crossed out a fan’s “Dean winchester is bi” essay that she coerced him to sign, and told a fan to stop when she tried to force him to answer a question with the framing that Dean was already bi. He has said point blank that d*stiel is not real several times. Shut the fuck up, all of you, shippers or not and take your lumps like everyone else. 

You’re clearly working on some homophobic, misandrist stereotypes to “read this into” a man that has ALWAYS been played AND written as straight. If you see “the q*eer struggle” in Dean’s character arc it’s because you don’t understand what the gay struggle is, or are so hopelessly delusional that you can’t help your constant projection and need to stop trying to turn your mental health issues into meta to force on others. People are people, they have the power to define themselves. And fictional people are CRAFTED. Deliberately, by people, to represent specific things. If you read either of them wrong it’s because you’re WRONG. ACCEPT IT. You can’t reinterpret the sky as fucking turquoise because it’s “close enough” and you can’t reinterpret a deliberate creation as something else. It literally just does not matter what your justification is.

There are REAL lesbian or pan characters on this show that were thrown out like yesterday’s garbage, and TV shows with REAL LGBT characters and creators going for the last 15 years, even on the same network, but you just couldn’t make yourselves care about those. I wonder why?

I mean, we all know what original dipshit ship opened the door to making degeneracy acceptable in this fandom, established all the pedo dens and made this all possible, but might we wake up and meditate for a moment on how fucking insane the public, actor-facing behavior here is?

Like let me ask you pissants something: If I saw a gay man on TV and I tried to say “Oh I interpret him as bi” would that be okay? Like would you all pretend that just because I faux-softened it with the word “interpretation” it would be fine? All social justice and rep and blah blah blah aside– would that be okay with you? If I spent my time scrutinizing every eye movement like some kind of freak so that I could come up with fake reasons his dalliances with men “don’t seem properly gay” and every slightest interaction with a woman looked totally super straighty to me, If I went to a bunch of normies that don’t watch his show and told them he was totes bi, and when that didn’t work I went to a charity where my contribution had to be accepted no matter what or disadvantaged people would miss out on help and told everyone he was totally bi, and I went up to the actor and said YOU’RE BI, and/or YOU’RE PLAYING A BI MAN WITHOUT KNOWING IT BUT I KNOW THE TRUTH, supposed he was cheating with women on the side, and when people yelled at me I said, “But there’s soooo much biphobia in the world you guys!!!” (which there is, which I would be trivializing) and spread rumors about this gay actor being a biphobe, would that be okay with you?

I mean, let’s break this down even further. Let’s say I was watching Better Call Saul. Say I spent all my fucking time saying, “You guys, Jimmy is SCHIZOPHRENIC! That’s why he can make up such crazy stories so easily, he hallucinates them!!! It’s even why he believes Chuck about his allergy! Bob Odenkirk gave me a really wishy washy answer that didn’t feel like a no to me about it when I met him because he was so confused why I would think this, so I can say it’s true as much as I want! MY interpretation is that Jimmy McGill is a schizophrenic ICON and I LOVE HIM.” 

Imagine that I raised such a stink and it got so big that Odenkirk was forced to say, in public, at a con, with cameras on him, “No, Jimmy is not Schizophrenic.” But then I decide his words don’t matter to me anymore even though I used him to justify myself for years. Then it reaches the show, where Jimmy is diagnosed as mentally healthy. And still I ignore it and plug my ears. And then I ran around throwing a fucking fit saying that I’m mentally ill too so you have to accept this bullshit because I need this for my health… And then when THAT didn’t work, I turned my back and told everyone that BETTER CALL SAUL IS ALBEIST, and I screamed it so loud and so long it hit the news media…

I would be the fucking laughing stock, piece of shit, most obnoxious cunt in the fandom. No one would entertain me for a second. It would be obvious to everyone that I think this because I’m an ableist that’s weirdly obsessed with Schizophrenia because I don’t understand it at all. And if people in the BCS fandom made jokes about Schizophrenia to each other, it would be my fault. 

But because you people either pretend to be social justice warriors to hide fetishism or are deeply delusional social justice warriors that prioritize selfcenteredness above all else, it’s seen as fine. The act of turning a sexual orientation into a bizarre laughingstock in the eyes of the entire rest of the website like we’ve seen in the past few months is just fine. It’s totally cool. As is the obscene levels of entitlement, the twisted scorn and thievery upon artists that your fandom wouldn’t even exist without, and everything else. Supernatural is a well-known cesspit because of YOU.