FloweryFlees Blog

I got my blog back through the site 🥹

[ashesofdawn]

I think responding to the issue of how badly Kaeya gets treated/shafted in content with “Give him more Khaenri’ah-related plotlines!” or “make him royalty!” misses the overarching issue at hand: how Kaeya himself isn’t valued or treated as worthy of respect by other characters or the narrative, and regardless of how involved he is in the story or whether the content is in Mondstadt or Khaenri’ah. And how much more insidious that is because of his marginalized identity both in and out of the game.

I point out how disrespected Kaeya tends to be when it comes to Mondstadt-related content a lot, and how fucked up it is that entire cast gets treated like the nicest found family (TM) at his expense over the past five years. But thing is, Hoyoverse and the fanbase have not been that different when it came to content about his Khaenri’ahn roots either. I talk a lot about how Kaeya’s feelings or how he might be affected by anything are almost never considered when it comes to anything in Mondstadt, but it’s not like that’s done for his nation of birth whenever they remember to give him content for it.

A glaring example would be in the Caribert Quest, where Kaeya tells the Traveler and Paimon about his Khaenri’ahn heritage. Which as we know by that point, is a key part of his vulnerabilities and got him attacked the last time he tried that with someone, so it’s a pretty big deal. The Traveler remains focused on their precious answers (“Khaenri’ah…”/“Speaking of Khaneri’ah…how much do you know about it?”) even though their close friend just confided in them about being a refugee/survivor of an ongoing genocide of his people (and they know this since this takes place after Requiem Echoing in the Depths), and he doesn’t even get a “you alright?” or anything else that would consider his feelings on the matter because that’s not important to those precious answers and lore. Then when Dainsleif shows up and reveals that an Alberich founded the Abyss Order, they’re so quick to become suspicious of Kaeya being involved and still have no regard for his well-being after a lot of heavy, personal things about him were dropped, some without his consent??? I don’t blame him for leaving as quickly as he could. I’ve talked about how dehumanized Khaenri’ah and its people get by all the lore and theory chasing, and this was another way it happened. And this came right after they spent the intro calling him crafty, suspecting him of playing a prank, and scolding him for being irresponsible towards Jean completely unwarranted…really not helping their case.

Then later on, the Traveler sees a memory that reveals that Chlothar founded the Abyss Order after being desperate enough to find anything, anyone who would be able to save his only family, and essentially had his vulnerabilities taken advantage of by…someone who we later learn is Dainsleif’s brother. Which makes how quick Dain was to reveal that Kaeya’s ancestor founded the Abyss Order look hypocritical, and the game does nothing to acknowledge that discrepancy…when I say Kaeya gets absolutely no respect from the white Khaenri’ahn characters and that the colorism towards him doesn’t vanish in Khaenri’ah content, this is what I’m talking about. This would actually be something important for the Traveler to tell Kaeya, they’ve been friends for years after all…but they don’t do that. Nor do they tell him about another descendant, Caribert, being a hopeful soul who just wanted others to be happy just like Kaeya does. And what makes it so much worse is that Kaeya spent so much of his life believing that he wasn’t a good person, and the world constantly sent messages to him about how he’d never escape his family’s shady past…only for said family to not have totally evil motives or even absolute autonomy in the matter for the most part. Telling him would’ve lifted a huge weight off his shoulders, and provided a chance for the Traveler to show how much of a good friend they can be towards him and reciprocate his kindness…nope. Acting “holier than thou” towards Kaeya is the thing we should be focusing on in Traveler-Kaeya interactions, amirite. How he feels about something so heavy can’t possibly be taking a toll on him as long as the Traveler and audience can get their precious lore and answers. /s Doesn’t help that they still have moments of suspicion or scolding Kaeya for his morals after this, which…your friend is literally dealing with the aftermath of a 500-year-long traumatic event with barely any support, you’re in no place to judge him, no amount of that would’ve been appropriate until maybe after you acknowledge and even apologize for your preconceived notions of him first. He deserves that at the very least.

What about in other content? The other Khaenri’ah-adjacent character in his vicinity, Albedo…their earliest and most well known “interaction” if you can call it that is him drawing everyone else nicely, then drawing Kaeya with only a circle and an eyepatch. Yet another character showing Kaeya that everyone thinks he’s “off” or “different” and will treat him as such…yippee. Even if that wasn’t the original intent, when it’s stacked up with all the ways other Mondstadters have treated Kaeya differently from the rest of the crew it looks so much worse than if it had just been Albedo doing it. And the fandom thinks Kaeya deserved it for being a “liar”. And after that? Albedo continues being snarky towards him with the only times he’s positive being…when it’s about something Kaeya can do for him or others. God damn it. And once again, Kaeya is the one who has the standout behavior in this dynamic - while everyone else describes Albedo as an untouchable genius, Kaeya highlights his charm and ability to get along with others in his quote about him. This extends to how considerate he is about getting him a gift as well: rather than something sciency or stereotypical for a researcher, Kaeya remembers how much Klee means to Albedo and gets them a gift with a matching set. Kaeya is consistently humanizing towards Albedo (which also means a lot when you recall how Albedo desires to fit in with and understand humanity), but we do not get to see Albedo reciprocate that with Kaeya.

On top of that, we never get to see how Kaeya feels about Irmin when we find out more about the guy. Irmin being the regent responsible for a lot of Kaeya’s current pain and trauma - not only for his role in starting the Cataclysm, but also as someone whose family had to pick up the pieces after Irmin’s rule collapsed. Not to mention it was that Cataclysm that made Kaeya unable to grow up in his homeland no matter how much he wanted to. Same with Rhinedottir, one of the frontrunners of the Cataclysm who’s getting much more focus with the Hexenzirkel and Sinners gaining more plot visibility. Or the other Sinners, one of which again, was responsible for his emotionally vulnerable ancestor’s creation of the Abyss Order. Or Capitano, who was not only with an organization that Kaeya’s directly clashed with in the past, but also performed a lot of heroic deeds without thanks and recognition and has the same style of bladework that he does??? C’mon.

Though it’s also worth noting that if Kaeya meets other Khaenri’ahn characters, I’d like to see their dynamics develop and be fleshed out rather than “we’re from the same country, we instantly get along!” I really hate that one cliche, mainly because I’ve faced it in the form of a microaggression in the west (“You have to know *insert Chinese or East Asian person* right?? No? I think you’ll like each other right away!”) and it essentially treats people from one nation/continent like a monolith or like they all must think the same, which…ugh. Look, two people being from the same birth nation might not have to deal with certain cultural barriers while interacting with each other, but it does not mean the interaction will go smoothly or they’ll instantly vibe. People who come from the same countries/cultural backgrounds still have to get to know each other, build trust, and solve conflicts, and yes, that includes all the effort that goes into that stuff. No amount of fewer cultural barriers makes a relationship suddenly not need any of that. And the Khaenri’ahns we’ve seen all have distinct personalities and backgrounds, particularly Kaeya and Arlecchino - they all would still have to put in the work in their one-on-one interactions. But tbh, that’s much more interesting that expecting them to instantly get along anyway.

And the thing is…of all people who could be involved in the Khaenri’ah plotline, Kaeya’s feelings and perspective should be among the most important and prioritized. He isn’t just someone with a vague connection to Khaenri’ah who wasn’t affected by any of its affairs at all - he’s a direct descendant of one of the surviving families of the Cataclysm. A family with one of the most well-known names (Alberich) both in the past and the present for Khaenri’ah. His existence also implies that the curse isn’t permanent/has a clause, and whether he already knows or will find out later on…that’s some shit that he would have some massive feelings over. He got hyped up as “our last hope” for Archons’ sake. We can tell all this has taken a toll on him from how it manifests in his secretive, sometimes even off-putting behavior since his very childhood…but let’s just blame it on him being an anti-hero or suspicious based on a bunch of people pleasers’ standards rather than do the uncomfortable work of acknowledging how fucked up it is that one person had to deal with all that with little to no support, and that anyone in his shoes would’ve probably had a much worse reaction multiple times over than what we’ve seen out of him. Giving Kaeya more Khaenri’ah, or even any other nation’s content, would only work out if he’s being valued for more than what he can do, and his feelings are treated with just as much importance as anyone else’s.

[ashesofdawn]

Does genshin fandom treat female characters differently from male? For example, it seems on Tumblr, male characters are loved more and asked for more.

Yeah there’s a difference alright. Though there’s a lot more to it than just “male vs female characters” and that often gets buried in the sexism/misogyny discussions, and often brings to light a lot of biases that I’m not sure if people are even aware they have. Also, while it’s been stated and noticed that male and female characters get treated differently in the fandom…it’s often left at just that, and the “how did we get here” or “what causes this” barely gets touched no matter how much the problem itself is stated. I actually went into a bit of a thought spiral about this which made this response longer than I’d expected, so here goes.

For example, I’ve seen female characters be more likely to be called “bland” or written off as one-note regardless of their circumstances or anything they have in canon. Which is funny because there’s plenty of (especially white) male characters who have been hyped up but really do not live up to the amount/kind of hype they’ve received (like Albedo and Varka for instance), and they’re automatically treated like Teyvat’s most interesting characters anyway. There’s also this pattern that a lot of people have noticed at this point, where Hoyoverse keeps taking the same path with their female characters no matter how much of a rich history/lore they have going on - make sure she turns out to be nice, reliable, and most of all, appealing to the otakus in the audience (TM). And more often than not, the “nice and reliable” part completely overshadows everything else about them in the game, which is something that tends not to happen to male characters even if they do turn out to have kindness as a strong trait (i.e. Flins). While I get people lowering their expectations of how female characters will be handled because of this pattern, it’s not an excuse to decry every woman Hoyo writes as “bland” and never give them a chance. Like, all that stuff hidden in their lore or genuinely unique depths to their personality? If you like certain female characters, try looking for and highlighting all the things you like about them. And actually look for traits that don’t go back to “nice and reliable to the player character” or the stuff prioritized for the otaku audience (I.e. the Mond ladies’ tired pattern of people pleasing and the lack of acknowledgment for how dangerous it would be in their line of work). Because if most of what the fandom’s vocal about is how “nice and reliable” a lot of the popular female characters are, whether you like it or not, it’s going be viewed as that thing everyone wants and the problem just lingers instead of being resolved.

For example, Xinyan can tell a lot about someone’s personality/feelings by how they react to her music, and even in spite of all the difficulties she’s faced directly because of her love and dedication to rock-and-roll, she always comes back to it because it’s her chosen passion, and what makes her happy. Even if she isn’t necessarily a big player in the big lore plot (TM) of Teyvat, for me at least, her presence is just as important because sometimes I don’t need a theory sink, I just want to watch this sweet girl grow her supportive friend circle and succeed in her rock-and-roll dreams someday. It’s actually a nice break from all the high stakes and occasionally demoralizing plotlines. Arguably stuff like this is needed because without breather moments that show how full of life Teyvat is, a constantly dark conspiracy plot can actually burn players out and make them less invested.

Another thing that I feel like goes hand-in-hand with the pattern of how Genshin’s ladies often turn out is how the fandom tends to react to explicitly heroic, but “difficult” female characters. I’ve been over this when it comes to characters like Ningguang, Sayu, and Furina, who aren’t the stereotypical nice, bubbly, and instantly full of praise for the Traveler. I’ve gone into detail about it in the thing I linked, but I’m just saying…if over the years of Genshin’s runtime, there’s a consistent pattern of knee-jerk reactions to heroic female characters who don’t just hang on the Traveler’s attention all the time or have an attitude that requires approaching them with actual care and critical thought…is it any surprise that even the anti-heroic or antagonistic female characters who become playable eventually get the “pleasant for the Traveler to be around” treatment? Especially just to avoid how bad the backlash was towards so many of these girls when they were first introduced, especially Furina?

There’s also a pattern I’ve noticed of white/pale female characters getting uplifted or avoiding criticisms by the game/fandom at the expense of characters of color, and yep, that includes the male characters too. It’s most noticeable in Kaeya due to the environment he’s in (like who he’s surrounded by) and because of how he’s one of the earliest released characters, our introduction to him being all the way back in the 2018 manga. How does it manifest?

It’s in how in fan content, Kaeya often has to be “set straight” by a “moral, nice, responsible” white woman - I’ve seen this play out in stuff where he’s with Lumine, Jean, Lisa, Amber, Rosaria, Barbara, Adelinde, etc. and especially if it’s to push him to reconcile with Diluc or to force him to embrace their help and love (TM). They can even say some really degrading shit to him (calling him an idiot) or act like his boundaries don’t even exist (i.e. Jean or Barbara forcing him to be monitored by someone he doesn’t trust for “his own safety” particularly right after a traumatic event, why is that such a common element in these stories), and more often than not it’ll still end up with him apologizing to them for “making them sad”. Even if the other character does apologize to him, he’s still made to go “no, I was worse, I made you upset”. It doesn’t matter if it was for “his own good”, they still crossed someone’s boundaries and that kind of stuff should never be treated lightly. And yes, that includes if they’ve been nice about it. Their actions are still more often than not glossed over quickly after that, while Kaeya is still the one who has to actively work on his shortcomings - in other words, he’s once again the one dealing with most, if not all the brunt of the consequences in a bad situation.

It’s how he often gets flak from the fandom for “wronging” some “uwu innocent” white female character even when he doesn’t live up to how “bad/anti-heroic” he was presented as, or was properly called out and got consequences while the other characters didn’t even when they showed the same capacity for being flawed/fucking up. I’ve had this discussion about how he gets wrongfully seen as making things harder for Jean before, and how despite being one of the few visibly shown doing a lot to help her, he still gets flak by the Traveler and fandom for “slacking” and “being Klee’s accomplice” while the others are never called out for their complicity in Jean’s situation (Amber, Rosaria, Lisa calling Jean an “inspiration” actually exacerbates her self-worth problems for instance). But where it often comes up too was in the manga incident with Collei. Almost everyone sides with Amber because “he treated her like a rookie!” and gave him shit for fighting Collei even though he was literally doing his job, to the point where I’ve seen people making derogatory jokes about how “it was the only time he ever did his job, he slacks off until it’s time to mess with people lol”. Let’s say that he really did fuck up as badly as the fandom made him out to in that situation…and even then, it falls apart instantly because not only is does he get called out in-manga for his attitude, multiple times in fact, and his behavior is not glossed over one bit (to the point where Amber can still say shit behind Kaeya’s back in the game’s debut, and Diluc can casually make comments about how untrustworthy Kaeya is), but there’s never any callouts of Amber having some really messed up behavior in that same webcomic, by the fandom or the other characters. There’s no mention of how the whole “rookie” thing was something SHE assumed after being disrespected by a snobby noble, then after Kaeya nicely told her he didn’t need help at the moment. There’s no mention of how her attitude towards him started before she met Collei, got to persist without being called out, and how her inability to take “no” for an answer for the sake of proving her worth would give Kaeya (who, by the way, doesn’t know her well at this point) even less of a reason to place his trust in her. And her moments with Collei are often muddled with how often she ignores her boundaries and touches her/gets all up in her space without permission - which is not only a really common and distressing form of ableism but is even worse when you remember how triggered Collei is by touching, and yet it’s overwhelmingly treated as some sweet or helpful way to Collei’s cold heart brought on by that special someone (TM). Amber never has to learn anything from any of this, the entire arc is about uplifting her and presenting her as right all along (TM) while Kaeya and Collei both end up having to learn from her, and both feel some kind of remorse or unease over what happened on their end. But Amber’s still praised as being so wholesome (TM) by the fandom, while Kaeya’s still the one who got shit on for years (to the point where I saw so many fancomics around the time of Collei’s debut depicting her as being terrified of him and him getting a rise out of it) because the fandom never lived down that moment where he “irredeemably wronged” two innocent (TM) light-skinned girls.

It’s in how when Kaeya’s consistently been shown to do things for these characters that a genuinely kind and supportive friend would, it’s still not enough for some people to regard him more positively or less suspiciously. And not only do these characters tend not to return that energy unintentionally or not, but the fandom will take maybe one moment of small praise these characters have towards Kaeya and instantly give them the benefit of the doubt that “he’s sooooo loved!” Look, if Kaeya can show up for these characters while not sticking to the bare minimum, and do it for almost everyone he knows to the point of being the guy all of Mond goes to for conflict resolution, just maybe the bar should be higher for what he gets from his relationships with them too. (Here’s a post that sums up why it’s messed up to constantly show a poc uplifting other, especially white characters without having it returned with the same energy, it’s a good read)

Kaeya’s the most prominent example where this happens since he gets a lot of content, and because he’s explicitly a poc in a heavily white setting. This happens in other settings too, such as how Ifa’s often overlooked in favor of Chasca by both the game and the fandom, despite both of them being Flower-Feather Clan members who had an important role in Natlan’s war arc. But I haven’t seen much on the same level as Kaeya’s treatment with them. Even then, that’s because the fandom is a lot more critical of Chasca than they are with the female characters from Mondstadt, and more likely to write her off as “bland” compared to them even though a lot of them have barely developed past the same old overachieving, legacy and following some moral path, while Chasca did have arcs where her character moves forward, and even manages to empathize with and befriend Benny and Ineffa post-development. Cyno also gets a lot of content where other (often light-skinned) characters treat him like he’s cringe for his jokes and TCG hobby (which also happens to Kaeya), including some of the Sumeru cast like Collei and Nilou. But again, it’s not on the same level as Kaeya’s because more often than not these characters are shafted rather than uplifted - Collei often gets reduced to a ward for Amber or Tighnari, and Nilou, like Chasca, is also often written off as bland and a generic nice girl when she fits neatly into Sumeru’s themes of wisdom and is actually capable of acknowledging her own shortcomings and working past them.

And not to mention how everyone who said “Mondstadt feels like home!” suddenly said it was cringe when the Natlanese ladies did their damndest to make the Traveler feel welcome just like in Mondstadt…almost like there’s a shift in perception of whose attention is considered valuable based on what irl cultures they’re from, huh? And the women in the “less desirable” one are cringey for doing the same thing a cast of mostly white women did at the beginning of the game. I still think there’s a lot of rightful criticisms for how instantly Natlan took to the Traveler, but then why didn’t the same criticisms get directed at Mondstadt even when it resulted in the Traveler participating in the same culture that has everyone sweep problems under the rug to keep some narrow-minded version of peace and never having to answer for it?? It’s true that while female characters in general tend to be shafted by the fandom, people-pleasing, “moral” white female characters tend to be treated like they’re above criticism or seen as more “human” at every racialized character’s expense, and at the expense of “difficult” women and girls.

So yeah, while female characters are more likely to be written off as bland in general, especially compared to male characters…it’s very risky to treat all of Genshin’s women/girls and their fandom reception as a monolith in this issue. It’s affected by whether they get presented as “difficult”, whether they meet otakus’ standards for ideal women, and whether they’re white/pale. And it wasn’t helped by how a pattern in what Hoyoverse prioritizes in their female characters’ stories in general caused a lot of fans to assume a female character will be “bland” upon release without even attempting to read their lore (which at the end of the day is on the writing, which needs to do better). And it’s important to remember that the favoritism everyone’s familiar with mostly applies to the white/pale male characters at women’s/darker-skinned characters’ expense, so don’t just go “the fandom treats the male and female characters differently” and never think about it further.

[floweryflees]

This is interesting, the 'nice' and 'reliable' (traveller praising and following) aspect of female characters is what is prioritized by the game it seems, then their lore/backstory/personality is secondary, then fandom follows the trend of such treatment to female characters in turn (even when they are well-written first).

The most discomforting aspect about this is how boundary-breaking these types of characters are allowed to be (Lumine being part of the 'good girls' genuinely surprises me since she seems to be portrayed as the colder/emotionless twin by the fandom as a whole...). They are perceived by most narratives they are in as "nice", "pure", and going out of their way to help Kaeya, often portrayed as a problematic knight.

When the game introduces unconventional female characters (Skirk, Furina, Ningguang, etc...), the fandom's backlash makes the game sort of backtrack, in a way—making it put the interesting aspects of those female characters back into a "nice, reliable" box.

It's kind of like a snake eating its own tail. The more 'nice', 'fair', and hardworking female characters are wanted, praised, and put on a pedestal—the more they will be focused on by the game with those aspects on the forefront. The more "difficult" and "mean" female characters get disproportionate backlash, the more they will be toned down to fit the "nice, reliable girl box".

For racialized female characters, their niceness and self-lessness is automatically focused on (Dehya). There is also a slightly high level of sexualization compared to their paler female counterparts both in presentation, even attacks (Xilonen), and strangely—the backlash (often quite disproportionate) is often on them compared to their designer/creator (especially this part). They are often not very focused on in terms of lore or character, but at least there is often enough to infer.

If this has been the pattern for the past 4-6 years for many female characters, I wonder if there will ever be a true "anti-heroine" character of sorts (one with sharp edges), as they seem to lose interesting aspects of them in order for them to be made playable and marketable compared to their male counterpart...maybe the Tsaritsa or Rhinedottir could take a different turn this time.

For racialized male characters, there is always this aspect of mockery and ridicule accompanying them, especially when it comes to their hobbies, what they like, and their habits. It's often overblown and overrated, making it just meanspirited jokes against them in the narratives they are in. They are also often seen as suspicious and harboring some secret evil plot or more likely to be a traitor to the traveller with little to no proof.

You also mentioned an interesting aspect of this discourse, that pale male characters are still treated as interesting and worth looking into even they do not deliver in terms of character, backstory, and lore (, also I didn't think you thought of Albedo and Varka—fandom favourites, as such since I rarely see you mention them) . In a way, the fandom seems to perceive it as Hoyo having failed them, and something that needs fixing—while, for female (especially racialized) characters the fault is often put on the character itself (most especially the design) and just left at that.

Maybe the reason for why it is this way for female characters in Genshin impact is due to the backlash which might otherwise occur if "unconventional" female characters were developed without toning down. This makes me wonder what the reception of a female character similar to Kaeya could be like.

Sorry if this is just me repeating myself. Just found this extremely thought-provoking.

[ashesofdawn]

Eve feel bad for subject two/Susbedo?

(This might come off as disjointed cause I was a bit tired when I wrote this so apologies in advance)

Yeah, somewhat. I don’t condone his actions in the game proper, but I do think there was a lot that was glossed over by both the narrative and the fandom to focus on his envy for Albedo and reducing the conflict to just that. There was much, much more than the envy going on there, especially for someone like me who’s familiar with this kind of dynamic that Rhinedottir has with Albedo and Subject 2. Or Susbedo…did he even have a name?

The part that usually gets understood and addressed is how Susbedo felt resentment for being abandoned by Rhinedottir, and envy for how Albedo was able to integrate into Mondstadt when he was deemed a failure and believed he could never fit in even if he tried. Thus, he was driven to try and replace Albedo by taking up his appearance and killing him. But you know what doesn’t seem to be addressed? Albedo’s apathy towards how a lot of Rhine’s other creations, and by extension Susbedo, were treated by her. As her “perfect creation”, Albedo tends to see Rhine as someone who made some mistakes but ultimately tried, and tbh, that wouldn’t be much of an issue if he was her only creation or the others were similarly treated or given plans for their future, but as we know that’s not the case. It’s that thing where Genshin tries to write in middle-school level conflicts, then sticks them into situations with severely traumatizing/potentially world-ending stakes and expects the audience to just roll with it, and that’s what happened with Susbedo, who absolutely did not get even the barest minimum support that Rhine at least tried to prepare for Albedo. And that includes how Albedo treated him as well, which wasn’t much different from how Rhine did. Now, he wasn’t the one who abandoned S2 and left him to be swallowed by Dragonspine Durin, that part is true. But he absolutely did pick up on Rhine’s attitude towards him as one of her “failures” intentionally or not, and doesn’t deviate from it or even question it. He even calls him “Master’s Failed experiment in the dragon’s belly” at one point, same dehumanizing language that she used and very little thought for whether Subject 2 would hear him or feel anything about it. Susbedo not only had to watch someone from similar circumstances as him fit into human society with few issues, but watched him do it while being as dismissive of him as this “failed experiment” as Gold previously was. What really doesn’t help is how Albedo tends to elevate Rhine and see her behavior in a positive light, which can blindside him to consequences of her behavior towards those who weren’t as supported as he was. And once Susbedo finally shows himself, he’s treated like a problem to be dealt with rather than someone who can feel things by not only someone who was supposed to be his brother (and therefore someone who could’ve understood him or even could’ve been his ally), but by this random Traveler that Albedo met recently who instantly believed what he had to say and also saw Susbedo as a problem. Susbedo had no one and nothing to turn to, and that can really mess with the way you view the world. While it doesn’t absolve, you know, literally trying to kill someone and take over their life, there’s also that angle of never being sided with and having the golden child (hehe golden) of the family also participate in the very mentality that got him abandoned on a snowy mountain in the first place to really consider here.

Therein lies the second problem: that pattern of Mondstadt/Hexerei characters (barring a few exceptions like Kaeya) upholding some harmful societal/familial beliefs or rules, and never having to be challenged on them or face any real lasting consequences because Mond is so moral and good and praises the Traveler so much (TM). I’ve talked a lot about how badly this problem manifests in Varka, Jean, Diluc, Amber, Rosaria, etc…well what do you know, Albedo and Rhine have that issue as well, and though it was there since early in the game it really showed from Paralogism onwards.

We already learned previously how Rhine treated a lot of her creations (aka many of them were considered failures and abandoned), the havoc unleashed on all corners of Teyvat because of her various experiments and the multiple generations of trauma that resulted from that, and how isolated Albedo was under her tutelage. And yet…despite being considered one of the Sinners of Khaenri’ah, it feels like the worst of the consequences are bore by everyone but her (especially innocents caught in the crossfire), and therein lies the problem. She’s still a valued member of the Hexenzirkel and treated like an old friend who just “played around”, though considering the other members’ stances on things I guess it’s not too out of place. Even then, in Paralogism she’s still painted as “made some oopsies” or “she wasn’t that bad”, and while she does lament Dragonspine Durin’s fate…she still does it while holding onto the mentality that it was because he was flawed and thus a failure from the moment she created him. And wouldn’t you know it, that mentality was also the one that got Susbedo abandoned and swallowed up by Durin in the first place, she hasn’t really moved past it and no one who could has really pushed back against it, and even Albedo can see that. And she gets to ascend by eating the shade of life…yippee. Right alongside that is Albedo not only insisting that she wasn’t that bad, but also upholding a lot of her mentality whether it was intentional or not. Albedo…you know, the guy who Rhine didn’t abandon and paid the most attention to because he was deemed her perfect creation, and even then had the support of her best friends afterwards as well as the ability to fit the standards of a city that places a lot of emphasis on legacy and appearances. The guy who really should not be speaking on her behavior as a whole when he’s way more privileged than a lot of those involved in her shit, and the way she treated him was the exception, not the rule. It would be one thing if this narrow worldview was explored and treated like a genuine flaw (which would open up potential for incredible character development), but when he says that we’re just kinda expected to take his word for it, because Albedo is so smart, nice to the Traveler and befitting of Mondstadt (TM) so he MUST be a reliable narrator. /s He’s never challenged on that worldview by the Traveler or anyone else, nor does he get challenged on the way he talks about Susbedo, which isn’t that different from the way Rhine talks about most of her experiments and is meant to be agreed with because of how much the game treats Susbedo like a problem to be dealt with first and foremost. And with the way the other characters practically venerate Albedo and how he never has to really face consequences in-game for even the things that could be his flaws…yeah. With Rhinedottir, you could make the argument that she’s not meant to be seen as a morally sound character in the first place…but when it’s Albedo, someone presented as a much more nice, wise and worldly character who’s even a member of the playable cast, that’s where you need to address that flaw otherwise it’ll make him come across as less sympathetic than intended.

I get that when you’re looking in from an outside perspective, it’s easy to reduce the entirety of the conflict in there to “oh he was jealous”. But through the eyes of someone who’s been in such situations…there was likely also a shit ton of resentment for Albedo not only reinforcing a lot of Rhine’s attitudes and negative beliefs that got attributed to him, but the kind of positions Albedo and Rhine were in making it practically impossible for S2 to be believed or taken seriously if he ever tried saying how he really felt. Like, that’s the kind of shit certain teachers use to pit students against each other in school all the time, and oftentimes it’s the people pleasing kids who meet standards getting roped into helping enforce a lot of those toxic habits and shaming those who don’t meet said standards whether they realize it or not. Being way too familiar with that kind of crap, I had a hard time seeing this whole plot line as just “Susbedo was jealous that he didn’t get attention.”

At the same time, that’s not to say Susbedo’s pov was entirely sound or that he was never blindsided. Like I’ve discussed before, a lot of the times when Mondstadt shows love and admiration for someone, it tends to be for something very surface-level and puts the person on a superhuman pedestal, which might not be the kind of admiration S2 ends up reveling in when you really think about it (though to be fair the narrative is also pretty iffy about addressing that). Also, who says he has to be loved by Mondstadt specifically? It’s not the only place in Teyvat (though it says a lot about the kind of favoritism Mond gets by the game and fandom when it’s treated like failure to not be loved by the nation that’s ironically kinda judgmental, like in Eula’s story too). And he didn’t seem to think about how Albedo was still under some kind of pressure to achieve with how Rhine’s attention was on him, and other potential downsides if he’d managed to catch her eye with some kind of talent or something. I feel like that could’ve been expanded on a bit more if they didn’t treat Susbedo like just a problem for the good and moral (TM) playable cast to solve from the word go, it would even supplement his extreme actions, and emphasize how much he messed up in doing what he did while also being a good opening to address what kind of longstanding patterns in the family dynamic/society drove him to have that worldview in the first place. But that would require Albedo, Rhine (and the rest of the Hexenzirkel), and to an extent, the Traveler and the nice suburban town to be able to bear actual lasting consequences for their actions and we can’t have that here. /s

I might write a more detailed and less disjointed analysis on this later on just because of how tired I was when I finished this one, but TLDR: Was the jealousy a major factor in the way he acted? Yeah. Was there a lot of other shit going on that was just as important as that and shouldn’t have been as overlooked as it was? Also yeah.

[floweryflees]

This is greatly put. The effect of being perceived and treated as failed, broken, not even "in need of fixing" (though that's not even much better) are often treated like a nothing burger obstacle with no overarching consequences on the victim's (Like Dorian/Susbedo) psyche.

Behavior which might be attributed to the treatment and perception of that "troublemaker" or "troublesome" character is often used as proof by the fandom or game that [insert extremely traumatized character] is morally/inherently evil or "too far gone to be salvaged/saved.

Reasonable or justifiable reactions regarding the terrible or downright terrifying situations they are in are often seen in such a shallow, narrow-minded (to the "troublesome" character's lore, which might explain why they act the way they do), and often biased or one-sided—like they are only hearing out or considering one side of the story, in this case, the "good" character's side of the story (I often see this with Kaeya or Diluc situation/lore, often going as far as painting Kaeya as the one in the wrong/or in need of apologising/or begging for forgiveness).

To the game and fandom, a "good" character (conforming to Mondstat's ideals of extreme, egotistical, self-serving, and self-centered heroism) needs to quickly get over whatever issues they are dealing with (also confide, praise, and trust in the traveller, especially this—as soon as possible). They should also fit into the moral compass of the game, which in Mondstat, is often gaining a vision and becoming a knight to protect the nation.

[floweryflees]

Oh, I also want to add:

It might explain why so many supposedly "good" characters, by the games and fandom standards, with disturbing/questionable actions/morales/objectives are often rarely addressed/called out in the game so long as they are "morale" and "good" citizens. Most especially in Mondstat.

An example which fits this is Albedo's trial. There is never much shock, question, or implication about Albedo's character or views of what he deems, judges, or considers as deserving of life when he killed (hunting him down at that) Susbedo. Even when he went as far as saying that the person he had killed was not human, which is...with the way he puts it, as though it is reason enough—explicitly implying he did not consider Susbedo as "[deserving of consideration, with feelings, circumstances]", but definitely "[a regrettable, if not slightly fascinating failure—something to be dealt with]".

It is out of character for what Albedo is supposed to be hailed as by the game's narrative. Someone who creates and values creation. Like, they had left the story in which he and Susbedo had appeared with an ambiguous end, with it him even expressing empathy for Susbedo's situation. Going as far as saying that he would have done the same thing, even implying that he too might one day lose control.

...Not only that, but going as far as discarding him the same way Rhinedottir did after she considered him failed, which is especially contrary...considering he is supposed to be a "good" alchemist who supposedly values life. In the end, it really reads as him discarding a failed prototype.

The game and fandom treat it as though that was reason enough to just do so. The trial is also often never treated so seriously, at least never in regard to the life which had been taken by someone who supposedly values life.

[ashesofdawn]

This actually made me think about another character dynamic where this exact thing happened with the fandom’s treatment of the characters, except it wasn’t even in Mondstadt this time.

I’m talking about with Alhaitham and Kaveh.

Prior to Kaveh getting more development post-Parade of Providence, when it came to the dynamic and conflict between these two, people were quick to side with Kaveh and paint Alhaitham as “uncaring, cruel, and mean” because he not only refused to bend over backwards to appease Kaveh, but was also accused of “stressing him out” by making him angry all the time. And over time, a lot of the conflict was reduced to “Alhaitham is uncaring and lack empathy and that’s why he can’t understand Kaveh’s altruism, because being outwardly emotional MUST equate to emotional intelligence”, coupled by how Nahida’s voice lines about the two of them doubt how wise Alhaitham really is while praising Kaveh as having the most capacity for wisdom she’s ever seen. But even before the events of Parade of Providence…there’s a lot in the two’s portrayals that made it fall apart.

Alhaitham, the one stereotyped as “uncaring, mean, unempathetic” has been shown to the complete opposite since he debuted, long before Kaveh ever appeared. If I gave all the examples I’d make this excerpt too long, and I know that because I’ve discussed almost all of Alhaitham’s moments of emotional intelligence and compassion in a long post before. He also does all of these things without seeking praise or taking credit. While we know part of it is because he doesn’t want to draw attention to himself and make people seek him out, it makes him look genuinely humble and his kindness coming with very few, if any strings attached. Particularly towards vulnerable people in that society such as Shani, Ilyas, Isak, etc, where it really matters (also do you notice how the people he’s rude to are mostly classist Akademiya snobs or those who exploit the vulnerable? Think about that for a good minute before calling him “mean” again).

While we now know more about Kaveh and he’s been allowed to grow and develop positively since Parade of Providence…prior to that his portrayal really left a lot to be desired. He was meant to be one of the nicest people in Sumeru, and…he’s a people pleaser who overworks himself because of course Genshin would make another “good and moral” character like that. It wasn’t just those traits that bothered me though, his actions and attitude were genuinely off-putting and did little to convince me that he was the amazing, nice, and wise person Nahida and the fandom kept insisting he was. In the finale of the Archon Quest, his pushiness and insistence that Alhaitham was up to something rubbed me the wrong way, especially after Alhaitham casually dropped the truth of what had been happening with him and the Akademiya in the past week and he refused to believe him. As a result, Alhaitham’s pettiness towards him came off to me as him biting back at someone who wouldn’t stop pushing boundaries and wouldn’t even listen when he told the truth. This didn’t get better after Alhaitham’s Story Quest, where Kaveh acts essentially the same way and drops the line “At least I’d be a fungus with empathy!” as if it’s some kind of gotcha, and as if Alhaitham lacks empathy and he’s superior for having it. Assuming that lacking empathy inherently makes someone worse is not only extremely dehumanizing to think of someone, but using it to make yourself look better in comparison…right after Alhaitham was just shown helping someone escape a cult by empathizing with him? (I know Kaveh didn’t know that, but narrative-wise it did not help his case). I’ll admit that this was the reason he was one of my least favorite characters until after 3.6, and why I was miffed that this was the character the fandom was hyping up as Sumeru’s “nicest and wisest” after complaining about how “mean” the Sumeru cast (who are almost all just adults with normal boundaries mind you) had been.

Despite what was shown to us consistently pointing to Alhaitham as an emotionally intelligent and kind character, the depths were constantly ignored because he doesn’t fit the box of goodness a lot of the fandom shoves characters into. He doesn’t tolerate disrespect from anyone, not even the ones he cherishes most (including the Traveler). He’s not afraid to make people uncomfortable and that’s bad (TM), even though a lot of situations in Sumeru and Teyvat as a whole require you to sit with that discomfort to understand the whole picture. He doesn’t give two shits about the sanctity of society or whether he’ll look bad if he says something that disturbs the peace. He’s shown to be wrong and be able to fuck up, but like Kaeya he’s held accountable by other characters to the point it can get excessive at times. All of those things that would get him labeled as “difficult” and “mean”, especially compared to the people pleasing overworker who always gets heavily praised when it comes to the fandom. While they mitigated it from 3.6 onward by giving Kaveh moments where he was explicitly in the wrong and had to reflect and work on it, while making him and the other characters more inclusive and supportive of Alhaitham despite his bluntness, it started off as a familiar cycle that I was afraid would go in the same direction as these dynamics do in Mondstadt.

[floweryflees]

This actually seems to be is a recurring cycle in the game and fandom. Especially when it comes to characters who are "unconventional" do not bend over backwards for the traveller/the people around then or give them preferential treatment. Like, the game/fandom dislikes people who do not "hide their vices/aren't nice to an unhealthy point (people-pleasers).

This is also something I have also noticed in fan content. "Good" characters forcing their "help, care, and love" on Kaeya while being needlessly degrading to him specifically, calling him an idiot, suspicious, or in need of being knocked down a peg/forced into revealing himself for his arrogance/keeping to himself/boundaries???? Which is like... really?

Even when they do acknowledge the things Kaeya is put through just for existing and doing what he always does (wanting a peaceful, normal life—caring for others, watching out for them, always giving his best when it comes to Mondstat and its people) , they always frame it as his fault for not being nice, trusting, or morale enough is just— no wonder he does not trust much. Also, the amount of time his boundaries do not even seem to register to those who are supposedly his friends, most especially compared to Diluc (not that it does not happen to him of course, but is it ever as much as Kaeya, to the point that it makes up a good chunk of his content?)

Being perceived and treated the way Kaeya is, admired, sometimes feared, but also treated with great caution, disregard, and mockery often laced with surface-level compliments about how what you can do for people/useful you are is already damaging enough if that's all he ever gets. Like, there is always this "he is a [morally shady person, but at least he has a good work ethic is of use to others]" left unsaid but explicitly implied in the words and actions by "good characters". Not many ever put his good qualities/actions on the spot/thank him—are understanding of him, or ever give him any second chances when he messes up. Just always and mostly about what he can do for them or how troublesome or suspicious he is (often in a tone of mockery/"jest")

The boundaries of these type of characters, who like to keep to themselves, are honest, and have clear intentions, and do not bow to people around them or traveller—are often violated, ignored, mocked (???), and also used as proof of how "[morally questionable, suspicious, and lacking they are in their humanity]". And this mostly happens when they rightfully refuse to keep the peace, do go against the mold to protect what they cherish (Furina's archon, social mask, I think? Even if it puts her in a terrible spot in which she experiences people's anger, frustrations, and ire with her first place, first hand—especially traveller's), or refuse to pull the rug under a serious problem. Yet, "good" characters complicit in the vulnerable situation/position in which these types of "bad" characters assists them in are often never called out for their quiet complicity (going so far as participating in it in some cases). Also, quiet complicity often even being an option in-game (Traveller not ever really taking a stance against the racist/classist akademiya professor who was spouting those words towards their friend).

No matter how many times it has been shown in-game that the so-called "unemotional, unempathetic, or mean" character to be quite tactful, caring in their own way, and often cares for those who are in a vulnerable position (like you mentioned for Kaeya in your post, I think about his "That Guy" quest or commission?). In the end, they will be viewed negatively by the fandom and game. The game/fandom will allow for a lot of questionable action/characteristic by "good" characters expect "criticising and calling out" being mean, never be that assert your boundaries in Genshin world if you want don't want even more problems traveller trying to ""heal/fix"" you with their ""love and kindness"", some type of mocking/denigrating nickname, or more trauma (Furina's and Skirk's case)".

When they are female characters, the pattern of treatment shifts. They are called some other much more denigrating term for not being "nice", "welcoming", or "smiley" all the time if they are—always expected to be warm, pliant, and docile after the traveller has "cracked their shell". (Sayu, Skirk, Furina). Or they are often known as "ice queens" or "unladylike" in-game (Ningguang). Which makes way for dehumanizing admiration or correcting for them by traveller (the correction) or some NPCs/good characters (the admiration).

This was a very good point, apologies if what I said sounds just like repeating myself.

[ashesofdawn]

Eve feel bad for subject two/Susbedo?

(This might come off as disjointed cause I was a bit tired when I wrote this so apologies in advance)

Yeah, somewhat. I don’t condone his actions in the game proper, but I do think there was a lot that was glossed over by both the narrative and the fandom to focus on his envy for Albedo and reducing the conflict to just that. There was much, much more than the envy going on there, especially for someone like me who’s familiar with this kind of dynamic that Rhinedottir has with Albedo and Subject 2. Or Susbedo…did he even have a name?

The part that usually gets understood and addressed is how Susbedo felt resentment for being abandoned by Rhinedottir, and envy for how Albedo was able to integrate into Mondstadt when he was deemed a failure and believed he could never fit in even if he tried. Thus, he was driven to try and replace Albedo by taking up his appearance and killing him. But you know what doesn’t seem to be addressed? Albedo’s apathy towards how a lot of Rhine’s other creations, and by extension Susbedo, were treated by her. As her “perfect creation”, Albedo tends to see Rhine as someone who made some mistakes but ultimately tried, and tbh, that wouldn’t be much of an issue if he was her only creation or the others were similarly treated or given plans for their future, but as we know that’s not the case. It’s that thing where Genshin tries to write in middle-school level conflicts, then sticks them into situations with severely traumatizing/potentially world-ending stakes and expects the audience to just roll with it, and that’s what happened with Susbedo, who absolutely did not get even the barest minimum support that Rhine at least tried to prepare for Albedo. And that includes how Albedo treated him as well, which wasn’t much different from how Rhine did. Now, he wasn’t the one who abandoned S2 and left him to be swallowed by Dragonspine Durin, that part is true. But he absolutely did pick up on Rhine’s attitude towards him as one of her “failures” intentionally or not, and doesn’t deviate from it or even question it. He even calls him “Master’s Failed experiment in the dragon’s belly” at one point, same dehumanizing language that she used and very little thought for whether Subject 2 would hear him or feel anything about it. Susbedo not only had to watch someone from similar circumstances as him fit into human society with few issues, but watched him do it while being as dismissive of him as this “failed experiment” as Gold previously was. What really doesn’t help is how Albedo tends to elevate Rhine and see her behavior in a positive light, which can blindside him to consequences of her behavior towards those who weren’t as supported as he was. And once Susbedo finally shows himself, he’s treated like a problem to be dealt with rather than someone who can feel things by not only someone who was supposed to be his brother (and therefore someone who could’ve understood him or even could’ve been his ally), but by this random Traveler that Albedo met recently who instantly believed what he had to say and also saw Susbedo as a problem. Susbedo had no one and nothing to turn to, and that can really mess with the way you view the world. While it doesn’t absolve, you know, literally trying to kill someone and take over their life, there’s also that angle of never being sided with and having the golden child (hehe golden) of the family also participate in the very mentality that got him abandoned on a snowy mountain in the first place to really consider here.

Therein lies the second problem: that pattern of Mondstadt/Hexerei characters (barring a few exceptions like Kaeya) upholding some harmful societal/familial beliefs or rules, and never having to be challenged on them or face any real lasting consequences because Mond is so moral and good and praises the Traveler so much (TM). I’ve talked a lot about how badly this problem manifests in Varka, Jean, Diluc, Amber, Rosaria, etc…well what do you know, Albedo and Rhine have that issue as well, and though it was there since early in the game it really showed from Paralogism onwards.

We already learned previously how Rhine treated a lot of her creations (aka many of them were considered failures and abandoned), the havoc unleashed on all corners of Teyvat because of her various experiments and the multiple generations of trauma that resulted from that, and how isolated Albedo was under her tutelage. And yet…despite being considered one of the Sinners of Khaenri’ah, it feels like the worst of the consequences are bore by everyone but her (especially innocents caught in the crossfire), and therein lies the problem. She’s still a valued member of the Hexenzirkel and treated like an old friend who just “played around”, though considering the other members’ stances on things I guess it’s not too out of place. Even then, in Paralogism she’s still painted as “made some oopsies” or “she wasn’t that bad”, and while she does lament Dragonspine Durin’s fate…she still does it while holding onto the mentality that it was because he was flawed and thus a failure from the moment she created him. And wouldn’t you know it, that mentality was also the one that got Susbedo abandoned and swallowed up by Durin in the first place, she hasn’t really moved past it and no one who could has really pushed back against it, and even Albedo can see that. And she gets to ascend by eating the shade of life…yippee. Right alongside that is Albedo not only insisting that she wasn’t that bad, but also upholding a lot of her mentality whether it was intentional or not. Albedo…you know, the guy who Rhine didn’t abandon and paid the most attention to because he was deemed her perfect creation, and even then had the support of her best friends afterwards as well as the ability to fit the standards of a city that places a lot of emphasis on legacy and appearances. The guy who really should not be speaking on her behavior as a whole when he’s way more privileged than a lot of those involved in her shit, and the way she treated him was the exception, not the rule. It would be one thing if this narrow worldview was explored and treated like a genuine flaw (which would open up potential for incredible character development), but when he says that we’re just kinda expected to take his word for it, because Albedo is so smart, nice to the Traveler and befitting of Mondstadt (TM) so he MUST be a reliable narrator. /s He’s never challenged on that worldview by the Traveler or anyone else, nor does he get challenged on the way he talks about Susbedo, which isn’t that different from the way Rhine talks about most of her experiments and is meant to be agreed with because of how much the game treats Susbedo like a problem to be dealt with first and foremost. And with the way the other characters practically venerate Albedo and how he never has to really face consequences in-game for even the things that could be his flaws…yeah. With Rhinedottir, you could make the argument that she’s not meant to be seen as a morally sound character in the first place…but when it’s Albedo, someone presented as a much more nice, wise and worldly character who’s even a member of the playable cast, that’s where you need to address that flaw otherwise it’ll make him come across as less sympathetic than intended.

I get that when you’re looking in from an outside perspective, it’s easy to reduce the entirety of the conflict in there to “oh he was jealous”. But through the eyes of someone who’s been in such situations…there was likely also a shit ton of resentment for Albedo not only reinforcing a lot of Rhine’s attitudes and negative beliefs that got attributed to him, but the kind of positions Albedo and Rhine were in making it practically impossible for S2 to be believed or taken seriously if he ever tried saying how he really felt. Like, that’s the kind of shit certain teachers use to pit students against each other in school all the time, and oftentimes it’s the people pleasing kids who meet standards getting roped into helping enforce a lot of those toxic habits and shaming those who don’t meet said standards whether they realize it or not. Being way too familiar with that kind of crap, I had a hard time seeing this whole plot line as just “Susbedo was jealous that he didn’t get attention.”

At the same time, that’s not to say Susbedo’s pov was entirely sound or that he was never blindsided. Like I’ve discussed before, a lot of the times when Mondstadt shows love and admiration for someone, it tends to be for something very surface-level and puts the person on a superhuman pedestal, which might not be the kind of admiration S2 ends up reveling in when you really think about it (though to be fair the narrative is also pretty iffy about addressing that). Also, who says he has to be loved by Mondstadt specifically? It’s not the only place in Teyvat (though it says a lot about the kind of favoritism Mond gets by the game and fandom when it’s treated like failure to not be loved by the nation that’s ironically kinda judgmental, like in Eula’s story too). And he didn’t seem to think about how Albedo was still under some kind of pressure to achieve with how Rhine’s attention was on him, and other potential downsides if he’d managed to catch her eye with some kind of talent or something. I feel like that could’ve been expanded on a bit more if they didn’t treat Susbedo like just a problem for the good and moral (TM) playable cast to solve from the word go, it would even supplement his extreme actions, and emphasize how much he messed up in doing what he did while also being a good opening to address what kind of longstanding patterns in the family dynamic/society drove him to have that worldview in the first place. But that would require Albedo, Rhine (and the rest of the Hexenzirkel), and to an extent, the Traveler and the nice suburban town to be able to bear actual lasting consequences for their actions and we can’t have that here. /s

I might write a more detailed and less disjointed analysis on this later on just because of how tired I was when I finished this one, but TLDR: Was the jealousy a major factor in the way he acted? Yeah. Was there a lot of other shit going on that was just as important as that and shouldn’t have been as overlooked as it was? Also yeah.

[floweryflees]

This is greatly put. The effect of being perceived and treated as failed, broken, not even "in need of fixing" (though that's not even much better) are often treated like a nothing burger obstacle with no overarching consequences on the victim's (Like Dorian/Susbedo) psyche.

Behavior which might be attributed to the treatment and perception of that "troublemaker" or "troublesome" character is often used as proof by the fandom or game that [insert extremely traumatized character] is morally/inherently evil or "too far gone to be salvaged/saved.

Reasonable or justifiable reactions regarding the terrible or downright terrifying situations they are in are often seen in such a shallow, narrow-minded (to the "troublesome" character's lore, which might explain why they act the way they do), and often biased or one-sided—like they are only hearing out or considering one side of the story, in this case, the "good" character's side of the story (I often see this with Kaeya or Diluc situation/lore, often going as far as painting Kaeya as the one in the wrong/or in need of apologising/or begging for forgiveness).

To the game and fandom, a "good" character (conforming to Mondstat's ideals of extreme, egotistical, self-serving, and self-centered heroism) needs to quickly get over whatever issues they are dealing with (also confide, praise, and trust in the traveller, especially this—as soon as possible). They should also fit into the moral compass of the game, which in Mondstat, is often gaining a vision and becoming a knight to protect the nation.

[floweryflees]

Oh, I also want to add:

It might explain why so many supposedly "good" characters, by the games and fandom standards, with disturbing/questionable actions/morales/objectives are often rarely addressed/called out in the game so long as they are "morale" and "good" citizens. Most especially in Mondstat.

An example which fits this is Albedo's trial. There is never much shock, question, or implication about Albedo's character or views of what he deems, judges, or considers as deserving of life when he killed (hunting him down at that) Susbedo. Even when he went as far as saying that the person he had killed was not human, which is...with the way he puts it, as though it is reason enough—explicitly implying he did not consider Susbedo as "[deserving of consideration, with feelings, circumstances]", but definitely "[a regrettable, if not slightly fascinating failure—something to be dealt with]".

It is out of character for what Albedo is supposed to be hailed as by the game's narrative. Someone who creates and values creation. Like, they had left the story in which he and Susbedo had appeared with an ambiguous end, with it him even expressing empathy for Susbedo's situation. Going as far as saying that he would have done the same thing, even implying that he too might one day lose control.

...Not only that, but going as far as discarding him the same way Rhinedottir did after she considered him failed, which is especially contrary...considering he is supposed to be a "good" alchemist who supposedly values life. In the end, it really reads as him discarding a failed prototype.

The game and fandom treat it as though that was reason enough to just do so. The trial is also often never treated so seriously, at least never in regard to the life which had been taken by someone who supposedly values life.

[ashesofdawn]

Eve feel bad for subject two/Susbedo?

(This might come off as disjointed cause I was a bit tired when I wrote this so apologies in advance)

Yeah, somewhat. I don’t condone his actions in the game proper, but I do think there was a lot that was glossed over by both the narrative and the fandom to focus on his envy for Albedo and reducing the conflict to just that. There was much, much more than the envy going on there, especially for someone like me who’s familiar with this kind of dynamic that Rhinedottir has with Albedo and Subject 2. Or Susbedo…did he even have a name?

The part that usually gets understood and addressed is how Susbedo felt resentment for being abandoned by Rhinedottir, and envy for how Albedo was able to integrate into Mondstadt when he was deemed a failure and believed he could never fit in even if he tried. Thus, he was driven to try and replace Albedo by taking up his appearance and killing him. But you know what doesn’t seem to be addressed? Albedo’s apathy towards how a lot of Rhine’s other creations, and by extension Susbedo, were treated by her. As her “perfect creation”, Albedo tends to see Rhine as someone who made some mistakes but ultimately tried, and tbh, that wouldn’t be much of an issue if he was her only creation or the others were similarly treated or given plans for their future, but as we know that’s not the case. It’s that thing where Genshin tries to write in middle-school level conflicts, then sticks them into situations with severely traumatizing/potentially world-ending stakes and expects the audience to just roll with it, and that’s what happened with Susbedo, who absolutely did not get even the barest minimum support that Rhine at least tried to prepare for Albedo. And that includes how Albedo treated him as well, which wasn’t much different from how Rhine did. Now, he wasn’t the one who abandoned S2 and left him to be swallowed by Dragonspine Durin, that part is true. But he absolutely did pick up on Rhine’s attitude towards him as one of her “failures” intentionally or not, and doesn’t deviate from it or even question it. He even calls him “Master’s Failed experiment in the dragon’s belly” at one point, same dehumanizing language that she used and very little thought for whether Subject 2 would hear him or feel anything about it. Susbedo not only had to watch someone from similar circumstances as him fit into human society with few issues, but watched him do it while being as dismissive of him as this “failed experiment” as Gold previously was. What really doesn’t help is how Albedo tends to elevate Rhine and see her behavior in a positive light, which can blindside him to consequences of her behavior towards those who weren’t as supported as he was. And once Susbedo finally shows himself, he’s treated like a problem to be dealt with rather than someone who can feel things by not only someone who was supposed to be his brother (and therefore someone who could’ve understood him or even could’ve been his ally), but by this random Traveler that Albedo met recently who instantly believed what he had to say and also saw Susbedo as a problem. Susbedo had no one and nothing to turn to, and that can really mess with the way you view the world. While it doesn’t absolve, you know, literally trying to kill someone and take over their life, there’s also that angle of never being sided with and having the golden child (hehe golden) of the family also participate in the very mentality that got him abandoned on a snowy mountain in the first place to really consider here.

Therein lies the second problem: that pattern of Mondstadt/Hexerei characters (barring a few exceptions like Kaeya) upholding some harmful societal/familial beliefs or rules, and never having to be challenged on them or face any real lasting consequences because Mond is so moral and good and praises the Traveler so much (TM). I’ve talked a lot about how badly this problem manifests in Varka, Jean, Diluc, Amber, Rosaria, etc…well what do you know, Albedo and Rhine have that issue as well, and though it was there since early in the game it really showed from Paralogism onwards.

We already learned previously how Rhine treated a lot of her creations (aka many of them were considered failures and abandoned), the havoc unleashed on all corners of Teyvat because of her various experiments and the multiple generations of trauma that resulted from that, and how isolated Albedo was under her tutelage. And yet…despite being considered one of the Sinners of Khaenri’ah, it feels like the worst of the consequences are bore by everyone but her (especially innocents caught in the crossfire), and therein lies the problem. She’s still a valued member of the Hexenzirkel and treated like an old friend who just “played around”, though considering the other members’ stances on things I guess it’s not too out of place. Even then, in Paralogism she’s still painted as “made some oopsies” or “she wasn’t that bad”, and while she does lament Dragonspine Durin’s fate…she still does it while holding onto the mentality that it was because he was flawed and thus a failure from the moment she created him. And wouldn’t you know it, that mentality was also the one that got Susbedo abandoned and swallowed up by Durin in the first place, she hasn’t really moved past it and no one who could has really pushed back against it, and even Albedo can see that. And she gets to ascend by eating the shade of life…yippee. Right alongside that is Albedo not only insisting that she wasn’t that bad, but also upholding a lot of her mentality whether it was intentional or not. Albedo…you know, the guy who Rhine didn’t abandon and paid the most attention to because he was deemed her perfect creation, and even then had the support of her best friends afterwards as well as the ability to fit the standards of a city that places a lot of emphasis on legacy and appearances. The guy who really should not be speaking on her behavior as a whole when he’s way more privileged than a lot of those involved in her shit, and the way she treated him was the exception, not the rule. It would be one thing if this narrow worldview was explored and treated like a genuine flaw (which would open up potential for incredible character development), but when he says that we’re just kinda expected to take his word for it, because Albedo is so smart, nice to the Traveler and befitting of Mondstadt (TM) so he MUST be a reliable narrator. /s He’s never challenged on that worldview by the Traveler or anyone else, nor does he get challenged on the way he talks about Susbedo, which isn’t that different from the way Rhine talks about most of her experiments and is meant to be agreed with because of how much the game treats Susbedo like a problem to be dealt with first and foremost. And with the way the other characters practically venerate Albedo and how he never has to really face consequences in-game for even the things that could be his flaws…yeah. With Rhinedottir, you could make the argument that she’s not meant to be seen as a morally sound character in the first place…but when it’s Albedo, someone presented as a much more nice, wise and worldly character who’s even a member of the playable cast, that’s where you need to address that flaw otherwise it’ll make him come across as less sympathetic than intended.

I get that when you’re looking in from an outside perspective, it’s easy to reduce the entirety of the conflict in there to “oh he was jealous”. But through the eyes of someone who’s been in such situations…there was likely also a shit ton of resentment for Albedo not only reinforcing a lot of Rhine’s attitudes and negative beliefs that got attributed to him, but the kind of positions Albedo and Rhine were in making it practically impossible for S2 to be believed or taken seriously if he ever tried saying how he really felt. Like, that’s the kind of shit certain teachers use to pit students against each other in school all the time, and oftentimes it’s the people pleasing kids who meet standards getting roped into helping enforce a lot of those toxic habits and shaming those who don’t meet said standards whether they realize it or not. Being way too familiar with that kind of crap, I had a hard time seeing this whole plot line as just “Susbedo was jealous that he didn’t get attention.”

At the same time, that’s not to say Susbedo’s pov was entirely sound or that he was never blindsided. Like I’ve discussed before, a lot of the times when Mondstadt shows love and admiration for someone, it tends to be for something very surface-level and puts the person on a superhuman pedestal, which might not be the kind of admiration S2 ends up reveling in when you really think about it (though to be fair the narrative is also pretty iffy about addressing that). Also, who says he has to be loved by Mondstadt specifically? It’s not the only place in Teyvat (though it says a lot about the kind of favoritism Mond gets by the game and fandom when it’s treated like failure to not be loved by the nation that’s ironically kinda judgmental, like in Eula’s story too). And he didn’t seem to think about how Albedo was still under some kind of pressure to achieve with how Rhine’s attention was on him, and other potential downsides if he’d managed to catch her eye with some kind of talent or something. I feel like that could’ve been expanded on a bit more if they didn’t treat Susbedo like just a problem for the good and moral (TM) playable cast to solve from the word go, it would even supplement his extreme actions, and emphasize how much he messed up in doing what he did while also being a good opening to address what kind of longstanding patterns in the family dynamic/society drove him to have that worldview in the first place. But that would require Albedo, Rhine (and the rest of the Hexenzirkel), and to an extent, the Traveler and the nice suburban town to be able to bear actual lasting consequences for their actions and we can’t have that here. /s

I might write a more detailed and less disjointed analysis on this later on just because of how tired I was when I finished this one, but TLDR: Was the jealousy a major factor in the way he acted? Yeah. Was there a lot of other shit going on that was just as important as that and shouldn’t have been as overlooked as it was? Also yeah.

[floweryflees]

This is greatly put. The effect of being perceived and treated as failed, broken, not even "in need of fixing" (though that's not even much better) are often treated like a nothing burger obstacle with no overarching consequences on the victim's (Like Dorian/Susbedo) psyche.

Behavior which might be attributed to the treatment and perception of that "troublemaker" or "troublesome" character is often used as proof by the fandom or game that [insert extremely traumatized character] is morally/inherently evil or "too far gone to be salvaged/saved.

Reasonable or justifiable reactions regarding the terrible or downright terrifying situations they are in are often seen in such a shallow, narrow-minded (to the "troublesome" character's lore, which might explain why they act the way they do), and often biased or one-sided—like they are only hearing out or considering one side of the story, in this case, the "good" character's side of the story (I often see this with Kaeya or Diluc situation/lore, often going as far as painting Kaeya as the one in the wrong/or in need of apologising/or begging for forgiveness).

To the game and fandom, a "good" character (conforming to Mondstat's ideals of extreme, egotistical, self-serving, and self-centered heroism) needs to quickly get over whatever issues they are dealing with (also confide, praise, and trust in the traveller, especially this—as soon as possible). They should also fit into the moral compass of the game, which in Mondstat, is often gaining a vision and becoming a knight to protect the nation.

[fatimagic]

i've been really curious about this due to my own experience in certain fandoms, sooo here goes...

has a fandom ever ruined a ship for you?

yes (i stopped shipping something solely because of the fandom)

yes (nuance)

no (a ship's fandom has nothing to do with me shipping it)

no (nuance)

Voting ended onNov 10, 2025

please reblog and elaborate in the tags!

[beastliness]

hate it when the people who I love are suffering due to circumstances beyond my control 👎 there should be a sea monster that I can slay to fix the problem

[beastliness]

nobody ever gets locked in a tower or chained to a rock at sea anymore - it's always some shit like chronic illness or ptsd related depression

[deepseasmetro]

"its ok if you find people annoying as long as you dont like act on it" yes but more of you should be investigating WHY you find somebody annoying. is that woman too outspoken and "bitchy"? is that black man not "polite enough"? is that disabled person too whiny and victimizing? is that child too clingy and attention seeking? you need to actually ask yourself WHY people make you feel a certain way. you still dont have to be friends with them but i think it has to go further than just staying polite. life gets better when you unpack why certain people bother you, and it can help you develop not just patience but also empathy for people different to you. which sounds like some childrens cartoon bullshit but a lot of you need to hear it anyways, apparently

[homunculus-argument]

Uncomfortable facts of life:

Nobody's going to magically swoop in to rescue you. You can't just sit there and expect someone else to come save you. You have to get your shit together and do it yourself.

About 90% of the time, the "it" you have to do on your own is pushing yourself to walk up to someone else and use your words to say "hey I need help."

[probuccalfat]

be sincere and true to yourself or suffer soul death you don’t have any other choices

[identitty-dickruption]

hey so if you have secret prejudiced thoughts about an oppressed group. and you feel guilty about those thoughts. to be honest it isn’t very swagilicious when you go out of your way to turn a member of that oppressed group into your own personal confessional booth. I don’t need to know that you were secretly ableist about your wheelchair using coworker, actually. I don’t need to know that you used to hate trans people. you don’t need to make that my problem please

[identitty-dickruption]

people in the notes keep saying “don’t do this to an internet stranger” and that’s true. but I need to be clear that I wrote this post after a close(ish) friend confessed her secret ableisms to my face. so also don’t go out into the offline world and do this either

[crimewave420]

what kind of blogs do you follow

I follow a wide range of blogs to make sure my own blog content is as inconsistent and annoying as possible

[curiositysavesthecat]

For those who read fanfics or original works on platforms like AO3, are you more encouraged to leave comments on writers' works when/if they respond to your comments?

Yes, getting responses from writers motivates me to comment more often

Getting replies from writers is nice, BUT it doesn't affect my commenting habits

I don't care either way (I still comment on writers' works)

No, I don't like it when writers reply to my comments

I don't leave comments on writers' works

I don't read fanfics or original works where you can comment on writers' works

Voting ended onAug 31, 2025

*This poll was submitted to us and we simply posted it so people could vote and discuss their opinions on the matter. If you’d like for us to ask the internet a question for you, feel free to drop the poll of your choice in our inbox and we’ll post them anonymously (for more info, please check our pinned post).

[tyrantisterror]

One of the reasons I'll always stand by the 2013 Carrie remake is how it perfectly understands the psychology of a bully in the way few pieces of media do. The bullies in the original Carrie film adaptation, the one everyone praises, are cartoonish caricatures rather than real people, the all the interiority of Snidely Whiplash.

But in the 2013 movie you get to the scene where Chris Hargensen, the leader of the bullies, is brought into the principal's office and told that she'll not only be suspended, but banned from going to prom for how she and her pals bullied Carrie at the beginning of the movie, and the actress who plays her does this phenomenal job of conveying how, in Chris's mind, she's the victim. There's no cartoonish ranting or villainous monologuing, but rather a genuine outrage at a situation that she truly believes is unjust.

The actress and the movie both understand that in Chris's mind, she is entitled to torment Carrie - that her tormenting Carrie isn't just enjoyable, but a right that she has, a just and good thing for her to do because it the world is structured for her to do so, and that denying her that right is an injustice. The warped logic of the bully isn't "Haha I love being mean and evil," but rather, "When I hurt people, they deserve it and I deserve to enjoy doing it, because that is good and just."

And I think that's important because, like, we all have our Chris Hargensen moments. Every one of us has had a time where we felt entitled to be cruel, and recognizing that is important to being a better person. You can't let yourself fall into the trap of believing that your cruelty is always justified, or else Carrie is going to throw your car into a brick wall with you inside it.

[sleepygaymerdisease]

[androdragynous]

genuinely if u have been feeling like garbage u have to put the effort in to do one new thing every day. it doesn't have to be big but you have to do it. like I'm talking open your alarms and set a daily new thing time right now before you finish reading this sentence levels of do it. actually making the concrete choice to change something by doing it levels of doing it.

it doesn't have to be a big thing to be new. combine two ingredients for a snack you've never had before. open itch.io and play the first free game you see, or read the first free book. browse online radio stations. try a free demo on steam. catch up on a webcomic. follow an origami tutorial. take a different route on the way home. talk to someone you've been too shy to. watch a video on how to learn a skill you hadn't really thought about. identify one local bird. read a random page on wikipedia all the way through. listen to a local artist on bandcamp. play some new daily website game. read theory that you've been putting off. try a free art program and see what you can make in 15 minutes. experiment with a yoga pose. put your pillows on the foot of your bed and sleep like that for a night. stand on something you usually sit on.

I get that it's hard to make habits. I am saying this as someone disabled, with ADHD, with autism, with depression, unmedicated, etc etc, and as someone who has been in the recovery of clawing myself out of that hole. being stuck in monotony will kill you. you're not obligated to like the new things, you can not finish what you started, never touch it again. but you have to seek it out, and yes, you do have the power to make that kind of change right now, and every day, even when it's exhausting and feels useless and the world sucks. it is not a choice that will solve everything. but I truly do believe it's worth doing. I love you.

[noor509]

Hello my dear friends💔💔💔

Now now now urgent urgent urgent and very

important appeal

Now we are in the Gaza Strip. We are experiencing

a real famine. The situation is so dangerous and

catastrophic that no aid or anything is entering

from international organizations.

Goods enter through the Jewish crossings only

for merchants with Jewish partners to the Gaza

Strip and are sold at crazy prices. Today, the price

of a kilo of flour reached more than $50 in

America. Things are very dangerous and

catastrophic💔

Now, now, now. People are dying from lack of

food. Yes, they are dying from lack of foodR9

Everyone should participate and donate. It is very,

very necessary. The situation has become very,

very dangerous and unbearable💔

I hope everyone will participate and donate. You can donate even a little money or the price of a cup of coffee. Your donation will save lives. And protect my children from the fierce war

Pay Andrea Soto using PayPal.Me

Go to paypal.me/NoureddineAboalresh and type in the amount. Since it’s PayPal, it's easy and secure. Don’t have a PayPal account? No worries

@quantecosealmondopuoifare

@queerstudiesnatural @paper-mario-wiki

@prokopetz@pocketss@prideknights @apas-95@zvaigzdelasas @xiranjayzhao @charlesoberonn@beetledrink @batricity @beserkerjewel

@noble-kale @nycartscene @mysharona1987@moringmark @wilwheaton @wayneradiotv@elierlick @expressionmemeschallenge

@kiirodora@littlestpersimmon @lmaonade

@lordzannis @livepoultryfreshkilled @gothhabiba

@genderoutlaws @ghostlywriterr @hungwy

@hillhomed @vanessagillings @rickybabyboy

@taffybuns @tododeku @tomatatoro

@tobemadeofglass @9O-ghost@sar-soor

@sarakipin @sayruq @saltycharacters

@kropotkindersurprise @jadenvargen

@theygender @theradicalace @the-eldritch-it

-gay

@9O-ghost@nabulsi @sayruq @sar-soor @feluka

@neptunerings @wellwaterhysteria @buttercuparry

@watermotif @rhubarbspring @butchniqabi @butchfeygele

@butchfeygela @dykesbat @dykesymmetry@dykeslexic

@dykesbat @dykesbian @lesbianmaxevans @frigidwife

@diasdelasombra @cuntylouis @awomanofsorts

@brutaliakhoa @beserkerjewel @neechees @kibumkim

@feminismwecandoit @gazagfmboost@palhelp

@dlxxv-vetted-donations @commissions4aid-international

@palipunk-blog @irhabiya @iraqiprincess @self-hating-zionist

@antizionisttranslations @antizionistprincess @capacity2

@africant

#free palestine #free gaza #famine #gaza

#palestine

[noor509]

Please help me, my children are in dire need of your donation. My children are very young infants who need milk, diapers, food, and drink.

[noor509]

@kropotkindersurprise @jadenvargen

@theygender @theradicalace @the-eldritch-it

-gay

@9O-ghost@nabulsi @sayruq @sar-soor @feluka

@neptunerings @wellwaterhysteria

@buttercuparry

@watermotif @rhubarbspring @butchniqabi

@butchfeygele

@butchfeygela @dykesbat

@dykesymmetry@dykeslexic

@dykesbat @dykesbian @lesbianmaxevans

@frigidwife

@diasdelasombra @cuntylouis @awomanofsorts

@brutaliakhoa @beserkerjewel @neechees

@kibumkim

@feminismwecandoit @gazagfmboost@palhelp

@dlxxv-vetted-donations @commissions4aid

-international

[noor509]

I swear, it has been three days since I received any donation. Please help me.

[noor509]

Hey guys please help us donate please we really need help please 150dollar left to reach our goal today please donate