I just realized something. Zuko and Katara's relationship is Katara's only developed teenage friendship(barring Sokka). Just think about it;
Katara had no female teenage friends. She was on good terms with Yue but no friendship was developed, she never had a single spoken interaction with Suki or the Kyoshi warriors, Mai, Ty Lee and Azula were on the opposite side of the war and she never met Jin or Song.
For male teenagers; she was friends with Haru but it was only one episode and when they reunited the crew gave him a horrendous goatee and only one interaction with Katara. She had a crush on Jet, he betrayed her, then when he changed, they quickly killed him off.
Zuko was basically Katara's only close and deep teenage friend. Then after the show was over, Bryke tried to keep Zuko away from her as much as possible (The Comics and LOK). It's kinda like being in an abusive relationship where you get isolated from your friends, except Aang isn't the one doing it, Bryke are.
One of the reasons I prefer Zutara, is because I feel Katara gets to act more like a teenager around Zuko than around Aang. Just imagine how it would have played out if Katara went to that party in The Beach episode trying to make friends with other teens, but with Aang as her date.
Something tells me that if Katara was shown bonding and actually enjoying herself with more kids her and Sokka's ages (especially seeing that high-school-aged kids are the only kids she doesn't mother, except Sokka) more frequently, her choice to end up with Aang in the finale would've looked even more contrived and unrealistic than it already did.
You know how they say it’s actually dangerous for the victim to go to therapy with their abuser because the abuser will just use that to twist things and turn things around on them and manipulate and hurt them even further and in new ways?
That’s the best way I can think to explain why Zuko can’t be an Iroh to Azula and try to redeem her. All the things Iroh did during the show to continually be reaching out to Zuko and trying help him see the light and act as a support system for Zuko would NOT work on someone like Azula. She would only use those efforts to further hurt and manipulate him. It puts Zuko in a dangerous situation, a kind of situation that Iroh was NOT in when he was helping Zuko.
Yep. But honestly, I think it would be dangerous for Iroh and Ursa, too, given that most discussions I've seen center around how they need to "realize" how they hurt Azula. Mostly by not wanting to be killed by her.
These takes are literally insane. While I agree that yes, it is unfair to expect Zuko to act as Azula’s ‘Iroh’, you guys gotta calm down. She is a child. Ursa and Iroh are grown adults who should have been responsible for her and they both let her down.
Furthermore, there’s on a mission/around Ozai Azula and there’s beach episode Azula. If you take away the toxic competitive environment Ozai created, you see the other Azula peak through. The one who follows her brother back to their old home to check on him. The one who tries to help him understand what he’s going through. The one who is obviously still not over what her mother thinks of her. That Azula can and should be redeemed. And while I think Zuko should help, I definitely don’t imagine him doing it alone.
Nope, but you are doing literally what OP said by calling us "insane," and then twisting situations where Azula acts cruel and violent and manipulative into it being other people's fault.
How did Iroh let Azula down? By getting her a gift she didn't like? By not letting her kill Zuko? By not letting her kill him?
How did Ursa let her down? By not letting her hurt Zuko? By telling her not to wish death on people?
Also, Azula in the Beach is not free from the toxic competitive environment. She is still acting toxic and competitive there. And it doesn't really make sense to think that this environment is free from Ozai's influence, since Ozai is the one who sent him there. This is shown in the conversation they have in the beginning of the episode where Zuko is anxious about being sent away, but Azula is confident because she is assured that she is still in her father's good graces. It's literally a microcosm of how Ozai has treated them the whole time, and it influences everything that happens in the episode.
Azula followed her brother back to their old home and then told him to come down to the beach with her because the beach house was "depressing." Because the beach house represents a place where she doesn't have control. And then back down on the beach, she's back to calling Zuko pathetic. To say that she's trying to understand what he's going through is not only wrong, it's grossly insensitive, and further proves OP's point. That manipulative people will continue to manipulate, but pretend that that isn't what they're doing.
Of course she's not over what her mother thinks of her! Her mother was the one person in her life who told her that abusing people wasn't okay. Azula cannot STAND that, because abusers can't stand being confronted with their abuse.
And since all you've done is insist that Azula's bad actions were not bad and try to make them other people's fault, I have to ask what you think Azula should be redeemed for? According to you, she just wanted to help her brother with what he was going through and was abandoned by everyone around her for no reason.
How can Azula get redemption if we can't even admit what she did wrong.
Again, this is why OP is right, because it is very very hard for an abuser to admit that what they did was even wrong. That's why Azula can't get redemption, and you're proving that point. Get out of here with that nonsense and take your insults and your fake concern for children and your abuse apologism somewhere else.
Showing how non-toxically competitive you are by getting into a volleyball match with the local teens during which you destroy their equipment and villain monologue about how you destroyed them for all time when you win.
If you take away Ozai's toxic competitive environment she'll just make her own. Whether it be sports or trauma.
Or dating. Or being the most popular girl at the party. Is there anything in the Beach episode that Azula doesn't try to make into a toxic competition?
the thing is, that i keep thinking about more and more, ursa actually does try to help azula. her trying to teach azula moral guidance by not allowing her to wish death on a family member and not allowing her to continue mocking zuko with the threat that their father will kill him, for instance, IS her trying to help azula, because those are things are a reasonable parent should try to do. one of the last things we see ursa do in the show is try to be a good parent to both zuko and azula. people just often don’t clock it that way because ursa isn’t coddling or letting her get away with everything. (and it’s notable that when azula actually imagines her mother, she literally imagines ursa telling her she loves her and breaks the mirror because she can’t accept that it was true because she sees love and being loved as weakness.)
but the dynamic of their home is set up in such a way that trying to help azula doesn’t work because ozai has influenced her to such a degree that she does not feel beholden to ursa’s parental authority.
and the thing is, when people talk about parental favoritism (which is a big part of what people imply or outright say when they’re talking about ursa not helping her), what they’re describing…. is not favoritism. and don’t get me wrong, parental favoritism does exist! but sometimes (not just within this fandom, but certainly within it), if you suggest it’s at all possible that different children need different things from/approaches to parenting based on how they respond to it and their personalities, people treat that like apologism for favoritism but… that’s just a material reality, and also not what favoritism is.
both azula and zuko need moral and emotional guidance as kids, but zuko is more receptive to it, so naturally the way ursa tries to teach him is going to be different than how she tries to teach azula.
and then she’s not around to help or teach either of them anything because the situation forces her hand and she has to leave so that zuko doesn’t die. so, she did try to help azula before, and she’s not in a position to help her after. no, it is not a particularly fair situation to either of her children - or to her, but the onus of that unfairness will always be on ozai, and to suggest otherwise willl never not be victimblaming.
They don't actually want Ursa to help Azula, they want Ursa to praise Azula and only ever make her feel good. Which, again, is why nobody who says this really wants redemption for Azula. They don't want her to have to be responsible for the bad things she does, and that's really why they hate Ursa, because Ursa did hold her accountable.
Same with Iroh. The only thing they can point to as evidence that Iroh was somehow prejudiced against Azula is that he got her a gift she didn't like, and they make that into an unimaginable crime because how dare Azula not get the best gift ever?
All of this revolves around how they think Azula needs to have the best things always. The only reason they want redemption for her is because Zuko got it and that makes them feel bad because why can't Azula have what Zuko has? But make no mistake, they have no real concept of what redemption actually is.
But yes, they also don't understand that parenting looks different depending on the child. If one child is terrifying the other child, you don't go in gently and be like "baby, why don't you pretty please stop telling your brother he is going to die?" Ursa did what she should have done, which was immediately separate them and try to emphasize to Azula that that behavior is not acceptable. Azula also tries to conceal the behavior from her mother, and it's not the first time we've seen her do so, which also informs Ursa's response. To call this favoritism is gross because they are literally saying that it was wrong for Ursa to protect Zuko. It's also not like Ursa just throws Azula in her room and then goes to comfort Zuko, she takes Azula to her room and talks to her about what she did.
But again, it's not really about redemption or help. It's about wanting Azula to only ever have the best and by that logic, she should be allowed to hurt Zuko because her dad taught her that that was the way to show that she was the best.
And another group cover, nice! The motif is nice too, with them all sitting around the couch like this and just relaxing together. Looks great! I love how Musa is sort-of hugging Tecna from behind (putting her hands on her shoulders), I might as well have designed that lol!
Like the previous one, I have a bunch of stuff to say for this episode! We continue the trend of removing Damien from any plot importance (as he should be). Like I suggested in my rewrite for this episode the Trix just go straight to attacking the de-powered Winx without wasting any time with "drawing Bloom's flame out" or whatever. Since the Winx didn't get any kind of punishment in the last comic episode (unlike in the series equivalent) this comic fixed this by just having Musa say that they had their powers removed by Faragonda for being "undisciplined". Very random and arbitrary but eh, what can you do when you only have 6 pages.
Sadly, of all the scenes they could've kept from the series, they included the one where Bloom, yet again, has to demonstrate that she's oh so much better than all of the other Winx even in a world that is completely new to her by feeding that random magical animal. Didn't like that scene in the series, still don't like it here either. Apart from this, the battle flows a lot better than in the series. The Winx immediately go to defending themselves with any and all items and methods they have at their disposal, even without magic, and are shown to be more effective at it, too. No one needs to run, hide or distract; Musa hits the icicles back at Icy and Stormy and Stella's mirror is also effective. It's interesting that they switched the roles around here, in the series Aisha used the sticks to defend against Icy and Musa was the one hit by Darcy's mind attack, here it's the other way around. I don't mind but I'm also biased for Musa. Look at her being badass! (Though I consider it a net-positive for the comic since we have two Winx apart from Bloom doing useful stuff while Aisha was the only other one in the series who did anything worthwhile in this situation.)
Before the Trix can do anything more, the specialists arrive, alerted by Robin like in the series. Or rather, their ship arrives because we don't actually see any of them during this rescue and the Trix just scamper immediately. I mean, fair enough, it's not like they have space for anything more but I do wonder when any of the specialists (minus Sky) is going to get anything that you could consider screentime in these. (Maybe Riven in E8 if they don't butcher that completely? Here's hoping!) The end is very similar to the series again with Faragonda, of course, taking pains to praise Bloom specifically because it's not like anyone can do anything without her in this story, right? Though I do find it hilarious that apparently the specialists are just there in Faragonda's office while the Winx get their dressing down lol. We are not going to mention Brandon's face. Because apart from that one I'm really happy with the artstyle again and I couldn't help cropping some of my favourite panels - again!
I love the way Stormy's powers are drawn in this panel ngl. And look at Musa go! That's more like it!
I think this one's about on par with the equivalent episode in the series, some parts better, some parts worse, which is pretty cool since this is one of the better episodes of the reboot, too!
Following from this, bravery and the care for others is also mainly what Roxanne talks about when it comes to Metro Man. Sure, his powers are amazing, but for her the truly impressive thing about him is how he always steps in when someone is in danger and always helps the people of the city when they need it. That's what Megamind took over at the end of the movie and why Roxanne appreciates him as "her" hero by the end.
With that in mind, I wonder what Roxanne thinks of Metro Man going forward. She was very angry with him for his betrayal of the city's trust which is more than fair. I wonder if she comes to forgive him after some time or if she permanently lost some respect for him due to him taking "the coward's way" out. He never stepped in to help no matter how bad things got with Titan. A certain selfishness is undoubtedly fine and necessary but does it go that far? And why did he need to fake his death in the first place? He could've just refused to play the hero anymore but that would've cost him his reputation which he apparently didn't want to lose. I can honestly see Roxanne being frustrated with Metro Man for a long time and not forgiving him so easily. That kind of betrayal runs deep as it fundamentally goes against him being the kind of person Roxanne thought he was and everything she used to admire about him.
Bit of a ramble, but I don't really engage with the Discworld fandom (at least with most of what I've seen of it on Tumblr and Co.) despite Discworld being my absolute favourite book series because I disagree with so much of the main fandom discourse I see about it and the interpretations of most of the characters that are popular and the way they are talked about.
So much of fandom discussion is just all about shipping which in this specific instance I just have barely any interest in, especially if it goes along with always describing and interpreting the characters' interactions and relationships in sexual terms which are always interpreted and described in ways that are just so utterly unfitting and wrong to me (most notably with Moist, Adora, Vetinari, Vimes, Sybil etc.). And even without sexual stuff, it's so often flattened and exaggerated for all the same type of jokes that neither feel true nor appeal to me either.
Obligatory "they're fictional characters and you can do whatever you want with them, you're not evil for disagreeing with me about them", but it just leads to me not having fun going through most of other people's takes. It's the way in which Vetinari and Vimes are always so above everything when I don't like them nearly to that degree (they're good characters, don't get me wrong, just nowhere near my favourite, and I have some issues with them and the later Watch books, too). How "soft power-y" Sybil's and Vimes' marriage is framed with him as the obvious henpecked husband who does everything she says so obviously she has the "real" power although by now all the rank, money, name and decision-power lies with him so it feels very much like the pop feminism style screaming "girl boss!" but not actually changing anything substantially (and I get where this comes from because Snuff frames them exactly like this). The way in which Moist's and Adora's relationship is glorified (and I say this as someone who absolutely adores their relationship) but only ever in kinky terms, insisting that they must've lots of role-playing and extremely kinky sex, and with an extreme power dynamic where Adora is the "girl boss" and Moist the "pathetic loser" who only wants her to do some kind of violence to him. (And in this case this even completely ignores parts of their canon characterization where it was (humourously) established that they (1) have no idea about or experience with any kind of sex toys and (2) absolutely no interest in them either. But that goes against the kink fantasy their dynamic apparently appeals to so it gets widely ignored.)*
It's similar to how I don't really engage with the wider ATLA fandom, only the Zutara part, because they have so viscerally different views from me on so much of the canon material. I don't know if this is just the stuff I happen to see with Discworld, but Idk, I just have no interest in how I see most of these characters being talked about.
*And like, I get the appeal of "pathetic loser man who worships the ground his wife walks on and "lets" her use him as her personal doormat". It's so much better than the reverse, no question. But considering that I also tend to like the male characters a lot in any pairing I ship I don't enjoy imagining them in such a horrible position and I can't imagine the female character in question who I also like a lot enjoying that either.
GUYS PLEASE. The only reason Katara was distrustful of Zuko when he joined the gaang was because her previous trust in him was broken. Stop writing their first meetings in aus as hostile!! Katara would be one of the first people in the group to trust and be kind to him!! You know, like she was in Ba Sing Se after only speaking with him for a few minutes???
I see so many instances of this in fic where it sticks out like a sore thumb and tells you a lot about how the author feels about Katara. The fics where it's particularly offensive are the ones where Zuko is subjected to some kind of sexual violence before joining the gaang. Like, Katara would be MOST LIKELY to pick up on and empathize with Zuko over this, not just because she's an empathetic and compassionate person but because she's a feminist and is keenly aware of social justice issues. And who do you think is most often given the task of taking care of Zuko in these fics where Katara is made out to be an angry, irrational bitch? I'll give you three guesses, and a few clues. It starts with an S and ends in an Okka. The guy who thinks answering to "twinkletoes" is unmanly.
I know the ones shown on the left (except for Bloom, hers is on the right) are all from S3, they're in the S3 Enciclomagia. I think the others are from S4, definitely post-S3, which is really quite striking in how much the style of the characters (especially the way their hair is drawn!) differs. The design choices are much less individual and less, Idk, playful? More like models showing off designs rather than something individual characters would dress in for a fun day at the beach. The designs are pretty, ngl, but I prefer the S3 versions in every single case, even when I'm not a fan of the style itself, for their sheer personality! Bloom's and Aisha's S3 versions aren't to my taste but I love how excessively cute Bloom's is, it fits her so well, and Aisha's casual, slightly sporty wear is a good fit as well. I probably like Stella's and Flora's S4 versions the most out of all of them, but I still vastly prefer their S3 outfits. Stella's is just incredible and looks absolutely stunning on her! And I love the ribbons/frills and butterflies on Flora's. I also really like Musa's striking hairdo in her S3 version and how interesting the colour palette of her bikini is. Same goes for the colours and square shapes that pattern Tecna's S3 version.
Some of them might be a little overdressed with the amount of accessoires they have for appearing in an episode like this, but for a range of artworks it looks good. The S4 versions I could imagine better for this, but for me to truly like them they'd have to get rid of the heels and fix everybody's hair. Then they'd be fine as well, beachwear is supposed to be pretty simple after all.
My completely objective rating of every OPLA pairing that I've seen people ship:
Zoro & Luffy: I can see it. There's Zoro's vow to Luffy and his support when Luffy doubts himself in S1 and Luffy's surprising emotional awareness when he notices Zoro is down during their party in S2. Zoro definitely cares a great deal about Luffy and Luffy was absolutely devastated by Zoro being on death's door in S1. It has too much of a "babysitter" dynamic to really consider it romantic to me though, as Zoro's care for Luffy frequently expresses itself in keeping an eye on him like a child (which Luffy definitely acts like occasionally).
Nami & Luffy: Similar to the above. I can definitely see it due to the very emotional connection they have with Luffy helping Nami and freeing her from Arlong's clutches. Nami also admires Luffy a great deal with the way she tries to describe him to Vivi but can't really find words for it. Similar to the above though, I can't consider it as a serious pairing since Nami frequently steps into the role of "handler" to Luffy which is an awful romantic dynamic, especially when the "handler" is female and the character too childish/incompetent to handle himself is male.
Zoro & Sanji: This one I really can't see. Their dynamic is relatively shallow and consists exclusively of throwing insults at and trying to one-up each other. Apart from jokes and implications about how they're totally into each other because Sanji made a dick joke or Zoro makes fun of Sanji's constant skirt chasing I also haven't seen any convincing arguments for why they actually even like each other in any significant way. It feels very much like the old "he's only bullying you because he likes you" rhetoric.
Nami & Sanji: I can see it but only in so far that Sanji constantly flirts with Nami and that Nami, while not reciprocating and reacting mostly exasperated, doesn't completely shut it down. The problem is that Sanji flirts with every single attractive woman he sees (including ones currently trying to murder him) so Nami really isn't special to him in that regard. She does like his genuinely supportive side but there's a lot more than that necessary to convince me that this is supposed to be an especially significant or deep relationship to either of them.
Sanji & Usopp: I've seen much less of this one than I honestly expected considering Usopp's very fruity compliments of Sanji and how well they work together when they get up to their dumb & dumber shenanigans. Usopp is very reassured by Sanji and trusts him a lot even when he leads him into trouble which is pretty cute. I guess Usopp isn't the type of sexyman that leads themselves well to shipping? I've seen practically nothing of Usopp & Nami or Usopp & Luffy either even though they both have some genuinely supportive and wholesome interactions.
Nami & Vivi: I can see it. They build a very sincere and emotional friendship with Nami helping Vivi integrate into the Straw Hats and Vivi reminding her a lot of how Nami herself needed help and was worth helping despite being mistrustful of her initially. Though this is also largely due to the fact that Vivi is the only other major female character for Nami to interact with so far, so there isn't much to compare it to or ship as alternative. Vivi & Luffy also build a very sincere and emotional friendship but Luffy does that with pretty much his whole crew.
Zoro & Robin: ??? This has to be an anime/manga thing because these two haven't had a single interaction so far. They weren't even highlighted towards each other in the one scene they're even in the same general area, rather to the contrary if anything (Vivi, Luffy, Sanji, Nami and Usopp all have a more significant reaction to Robin than Zoro does). Either that or it's solely because they're both hot. This one just confuses me tbh. (You can't tell me that if Tashigi looked more like Robin, that wouldn't be shipped instead.)
Koby & Helmeppo: Kinda understandable that I've seen rather little of this as the marines are way less popular as characters than the Straw Hats are but yeah, I can see it. They have great character and relationship development together and form a really wholesome and kinda adorable friendship. I think this one would be more popular if they were the main characters or if they were more the sexyman-type of attractive (especially Koby). Maybe this one'll become more popular when they get further in their training and become more badass.
And finally:
Zoro & Nami: 10/10, no notes, the unquestionably best and superior one, the OTP. The way they go from reluctant allies (and their joint exasperation at Luffy) to building such a natural and genuine connection to the point that they're more concerned about each other than they're shown to be about anyone else is delicious and an absolute joy to watch, especially coming from two people who are so guarded, used to being on their own and wary of getting close to other people. Add to that the wonderful teasing banter they can't help but engage in, the way they're always at each other's side, the way they get each other like no one else does and it's just absolutely perfect!
In short
OTP: Zoro & Nami
Ship sort of passively: Sanji & Usopp, Koby & Helmeppo
Can see it but don't ship it for one reason or another: Zoro & Luffy, Nami & Luffy, Nami & Sanji, Nami & Vivi
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