I learned about the FFVII waifu wars after playing the remake. I played the OG many moons ago, replayed it a few years ago, but really got interested in the character dynamics after playing FFVIIR.
I foolishly looked up “Is the remake pushing Cloud and Tifa more?” I found the shipping wars... That I never knew existed.
You see, I played the OG and it was pretty clear to me that the story went a certain way. In fact, I didn’t even associate FFVII to romance.
FFVII was a story about a villain who was pissed off that a grunt killed him, so he finds a way to come back from the dead through clones that his father made to fuck with said grunt and get revenge on all the humans that wronged his Mother.
(This is my explanation in as few words as possible, because we all know explaining FFVII would take multiple posts).
So why did I look up my question about Cloud and Tifa? Well, I was shocked at how they presented them. I didn’t remember this from the OG. Like I said, I didn’t associate FFVII to romance like I did with VIII, IX, and X. Those were clear. FFVII didn’t have this as a main theme. FFVIIR created extreme sexual tension between Cloud and Tifa.
I remember when you finally found out Cloud wasn’t a SOLDIER, that he actually DID kill Sephiroth 5 years ago, and that he did come to save Tifa - he fulfilled his promise. The part when the main theme plays and he takes his helmet off... chills. Even now, I love that part. Still, I associated this with us finally getting answers to some of the weird shit that happens earlier in the game. And I was way too young and dense to understand the Under the Highwind scene.
Needless to say, I wanted to see if others had the same impression. It seems they did, and those posts were then overpowered by the other side. “Yeah, I used to ship Cloti, but the remake made me see that it’s clearly Aerith.” What? What did I miss?
So I questioned my sanity a bit. I played every quest - I did both Tifa and Aerith’s discovery quests. Until the point we get back to Tifa in Wall Market, I still was kind of iffy on how they were presenting Aerith and Cloud. They removed a lot of stuff from the OG that was a bit more direct from Cloud’s end. They also removed a lot of the jealousy scenes between Tifa and Aerith. Seems they gave all the jealousy to Cloud in other scenes.
Cloud clearly is soft with Tifa. He remembers The Promise, he calls her beautiful, you have no choice but to give her the flower. No matter what choices you make with Aerith. He still gives her the flower. He gets jealous whenever he even thinks a guy is talking about her in a romantic/sexual way.
Then I see things like “Cloud was so emotionless and mean until Chapter 8″. HOW? And this goes beyond Tifa. Cloud had a ton of character growth during the first 3 chapters, and it continued on until Chapter 8. This was not something where he suddenly turned nice to Aerith. He had a ton of people help him out before.
Take Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie. Cloud was a dick to them. I mean, he really was. I was sad for Wedge, cuz I think he’s so nice, and Cloud was just mean to him. By the end of Chapter 4, he’s much nicer to them. He’s left out of their celebration, and I think maybe this was a reference to him as a child. He thought he was better than the other kids (except Tifa). He treated everybody like shit (except Tifa) in the first three chapters and Barret told him to gtfo.
Jessie made sure to let him know she wanted him there. Now, I’m not a fan of how thirsty Jessie is. I mean they REALLY slam it on you how bad she wants to get with Cloud. Cloud then says what I was thinking “Are you seriously that desperate?!” Yes, she is, and it’s obnoxious, but I think it’s a hilarious addition to the story. However, I think it was a light bulb moment that he would be included if he was a bit nicer to people.
Cloud and Barret start getting along more as time goes on as well. This is all before Chapter 8. So I actually have commented on these posts... “Did you play the first 7 chapters? Did you play the rest of the game?” There’s so many points during FFVIIR where Cloud clearly has character development outside of what Tifa and Aerith do.
They ignore this. That’s my issue. The ignore everything else in the story. They ignore reality, so that makes people like me question themselves.
It reminds me of a personal situation with my job. We had a really bad leader. Like, cruel, mean. And he got away with it for a long time. You can say, “just leave”, but I think anybody with a family knows that’s not as easy as it sounds. Not when you rely on your job for not only income, but benefits, retirement, and stability. Not when changing buildings causes months of legit mental breakdowns (imagine changing companies completely?). So, it wasn’t really an option.
The worst part during all of that was knowing and seeing the reality of what was going on and having people flat out try to tell me that what I was seeing wasn’t true. I had conversations with other co-workers who started to question their sanity. Is it us? Are we the problem? Are we wrong? What are we missing? And that’s tough, especially when it goes on for so long.
In the real life example, there was a resolution earlier this year, where finally the guy was fired. And a lot of people were fighting him. More than you’d think. But they were scared, so they had to be careful. This is real life, not a game, so the stakes were much higher. The truth all comes out after this type of thing, and it was actually worse than we thought. There was a lot we missed, and a lot we just weren’t aware of. We weren’t crazy - there was just a group of his followers trying to brainwash us in to thinking he was great.
The shipping wars give me the same feelings I had during that. I question my sanity and don’t get what I’m missing. This is beyond how you interpret the LTD. This is legit ignoring parts of the story as it’s presented. SE put these Cloti moments throughout the Remake to make a point. They have Aerith say things to make a point. They even have Aerith stop making moves on Cloud after Tifa comes back and she sees the obvious “thing” between them.
There are tons of analysis on multiple scenes and how Cloud reacts. Facial expressions tell a lot, so does voice acting. There are reasons they put these scenes in. There are reasons they are part of the main story and not part of side quests. There are reasons that the devs responded the way they did in interviews.
The Ultimania clearly talks about Cloud’s feelings. The OG talks about them.
So why do I still feel upset when I see these? Well, for one, the posters that say “I was a Cloti until..” in most cases are probably shipping the other side, but this is a great way to make people question themselves. It may make new fans not enjoy the story as much.
Then you have Twitter. And it’s a shame, because there’s some great fanart on Twitter. But, you can’t search for “tifa” without seeing some really bad posts. And it’s the same accounts over and over. There isn’t a large amount.
The entire goal of these posters is to fight people who don’t agree with them. They also start posting similar complaints about a week after the Cloti side makes them.
The most recent being that Cloti fans are going after Nojima and it’s not going to change anything. What? I saw a similar post about the C////erith side about a week or two ago. Why are Cloti’s going after Nojima? So I went through some of his posts. I found one where he posted about FF7R. The only Cloti posts I saw were thanking him. The C///erith ones were over the top trying to say how it was all C///erith and there was no Cloti in the remake. One even said that “millions of fans want Aerith to survive.” No, I’d say the majority of fans want the original plot points to stay.
Nojima himself liked a fanart of himself... where they called him the Cloti king.
So where are the Cloti’s going after Nojima? I only saw praise...
The next new one is that C///eriths aren’t racist and Cloti’s are. I’ve seen this argument in reverse as well. It seems they scope out some things and repost them in the opposite argument.
I just don’t understand the extreme nature. You can ship who you want, but you can’t erase parts of the story to make it work. Why even bother playing the game? The romance aspect is SO SMALL in the OG.
In the remake its a bit heavier, but it’s different times. Sex sells. Let’s add some spice to the game, and they did. I felt no sexual tension between Cloud and Aerith. Jessie tried HARD. The only mutual tension felt was between Cloud and Tifa. That deep, dear lord please do something to release this tension, feeling. Cloud and Aerith had cute little moments similar to a Disney movie or a kids movie. Tifa and Cloud had the moments you see in more mature things.
Some of these moments are optional - the resolution scene you can technically avoid every time you play if you choose to. The Clotiscrew tunnel roll is a bit harder unless you KNOW you can avoid it and/or are terrible at the game. You literally have to try hard to mess up to not get that scene.
The Clotiscrew tunnel scene is also hilarious to watch people react to. Cuz you do feel like you need to take a quick walk to cool off from that heat. Even my husband who doesn’t give a shit was like “wow, yeah, okay, that’s... intense.”
It didn’t have to be, it could have been a roll and release, but he holds her and says “You okay?” in that soft af voice THAT HE ONLY USES ON HER. Her response is equally sexy. Then they get up and stare. Once again, not necessary.
All the “unnecessary” touching that goes on is fun to point out. People are still finding moments, I think. During battles, in the background during other scenes. They’re making this a point. They make it a point to show shots of those two during other scenes in the game. They aren’t being subtle anymore.
So I don’t understand how you can erase all of that.
The other side has a small group that is completely shitting on Tifa to do it. I don’t see that as much on the Cloti side towards Aerith. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, I bet it does, but it’s not as easy to find. Almost EVERY shipping fight has something about Tifa’s boobs, Tifa not telling Cloud about his past, something. They make stuff up in some cases.
All of this is a way to recruit people to their side. To “convert” them. I feel bad for the streamers who like Tifa and you see a group come in to try and “correct” that thought. Why do they care so much?
Maximillian Dood doesn’t seem affected by those opinions - he’s a great supporter of Tifa as a character. He was very happy with the way they handled the remake, and that says a lot. He also has some great reactions to parts of the game. He also is a more experienced streamer, it seems.
My thoughts are... the Remake has blown expectations on how it was supposed to go. Probably a lot of fans assumed they’d make a point to build up Aerith as the love interest... but they didn’t. Tifa is in almost every chapter (2 is the exception). She is referenced multiple times in Wall Market - especially if you actually listen to the lyrics for Midgar Blues. Why place that song in during that part?
So we go to the attack mode of survival here. They’re going to change as many opinions as possible. They’re going to make people question themselves. Make people feel bad.
The reality is, there’s a clear cut story - they’re making it that way. There’s multiple hints that there isn’t going to be a love triangle. There’s multiple hints that Zack is going to be a thing in the Remake. They’ve definitely put it on more heavy that Aerith still loves Zack.
I can only hope that things are made clear. That this can stop. I still say people should ship who they want. Hell, I ship Vincent and Lucrecia (this was my only romantic love in the OG back then...). However, canon is that Hojo and Lucrecia married and had a child. I wanted Vincent to secretly be the father so bad, but he’s not. That doesn’t ruin the game for me, at all.
It would ruin the game for me, in a sense, if they completely pull a 180 in Part 2 and try to “remove” all of the stuff from Part 1 from a character dynamics perspective. It would feel wrong for Aerith to tell Cloud not to fall in love with her, tell him that everything isn’t real if he does, and also have her back off completely after Tifa is back, and then all of a sudden throw herself at him. It would erase all the friendship scenes between Tifa and Aerith.
And how could you just “turn off” Cloud’s attentive nature to Tifa? It wouldn’t make sense. It would ruin it for me because that is legit trying to erase parts of the story.
I don’t think that will happen. But I still get anxious when I see shit on the internet.
I guess after the “stabbing”, Tifa and Barret got kicked out of the sim with no idea Sephiroth stuck them with his sword. Ykno, since they never even bring it up besides saying they feel sick.
The big question is: did this foreshadow what would happen if the group never left Midgar? Or is it showing what’ll happen if they come back during meteor fall? Is it Sephiroth’s attempt to follow through with his chapter 2 “request” for Cloud to run? It’s not OG canon, since Tifa never dies, so is this now our new canon? Is it hinting some of the main party will die?
I mean, it’s Sephiroth messing with everything, so why would he tip his hand and essentially warn Cloud that he’s gonna kill the people close to him? He didn’t tell anyone before he killed Aerith. He’s not Don Corneo, revealing his grand plans because he thinks he’s already won.
This is weird, right? It can’t just be to up the Sephiroth threat level and further freak Cloud out or provide ship content or for Square to play their balancing act—we got Aerith foreshadowed death and now we’ve got Tifa too. That’s way too shallow.
Cloud’s face here though totally kills me. I caught it first time I played and it hit me hard in the feels. I had to replay to see if I’d imagined that level of intensity on his face (for him), but nope, I was right.
