I don’t know if this had been discussed but I imagine the gang as the rich kids of the island. Like their families are prominent and important (that’s why in the first movie they’re the candidates for dragon training, they get the fire fighting job, they’re special).
also there’s no way there’s only six teens on Berk. I like to think there’s another group of kids their age that are just your normal, run of the mill teens. In the first movie they were probably already fighting dragons because they had to learn it on the fly and if a nadder gets your chickens then you don’t have any food sorry.
I’ll elaborate if wanted (pls ask me to)
So I’ve been rewatching HTTYD 1, as one does, and I just noticed the symbolism of the “a downed dragon is a dead dragon scene"
Gobber and the recruits are sharing tails by the fire and eating dinner. Gobber then tells the recruits to target dragon’s wings and tail so they can’t fly away and are grounded since a dragon will be vulnerable.
Notice how Gobber and all the recruits except Hiccup are eating chicken, which like dragons have wings and tails.
I believe this is symbolism for the glorification of dragon killing and how all of them except Hiccup are engrossed in this cycle of violence.
Hiccup on the other hand is eating a fish, which is the only food we see Toothless eat in the movie. Symbolizing how Hiccup aligns himself with dragons, or at least Toothless, more than viking culture.
The gang having a peaceful morning until they hear Hiccup saying something along the lines of ‘come on bud, let’s go test this out!’ And they have all never moved faster in their lives
Bit of a dark topic regarding how to train your dragon, but do you think people would hunt and kill dragons to eat them?
In 'The Last Auction', Ryker makes an offhand comment about cutting up Grump and eating him with yak butter or whatever, and it made me think. People love to find the most exotic animal and eat them, so I figured it'd only make sense for that to apply to the dragons.
this is actually a really interesting topic to me!! i think it would probably be common practice in a lot of different cultures, especially among the arctic circle!
Eret's appearance is based on Inuit and Saami cultures, and it's common within both cultures to eat meat and use fur/bones/antlers/teeth from the things they hunted, and they both would hunt predatory animals. it's also implied that Eret comes from a line of hunters.
there's also the fact that Eret's furs resemble Woolly Howl fur
notice the similar shading, the garlic tufts, and the similar coloration!
that leads me to believe that not only did Eret's tribe potentially hunt them, hence his pretty immediate recognition of a related species (Night Furies), but also they would have eaten them!
it would make sense. Eret is (heavily implied, although never explicitly stated outside from stated inspirations in the art book) from the arctic circle, they need to take what they can in order to survive. it leads to some pretty interesting discussions of the ethics of dragon hunting in the film universe!
the films imply dragons to be animals. intelligent animals, sure, but animals nonetheless. no smarter than a dog or pig, about the same intelligence as a human toddler. and the sheep are also implied to be about that intelligent, if not just the slightest bit less. really, what is the difference between a viking's mutton meal and a person eating a dragon, other than an arbitrary label of cuteness?
Wild conspiracy theory: Throk has been working for the Grimborns this whole time.
I sat bolt upright a few nights ago and wrote this. Stay with me, because I think I’m onto something here!
Defenders of the Wing
The Grimborns are able to sneak onto the island and steal the Eruptodon with no one seeing them carrying a huge-ass dragon to their ship. There's no way that they did that without some kind of inside help. Throk is following Mala around, but he is captain of the guard (or at least second-in-command to Mala). He would have been capable of incapacitating the guards, or ensuring those loyal to him were 'on guard' at the right time. "There should be guards here," says Mala when they discover the Great Protector is missing – we never find out where they went. Likely they just abandoned their post or went with the Grimborns, on Throk's command.
The face of a guilty man
Midnight Scrum
Throk is easily able to reach Hiccup once he's been taken by bounty hunters. The way he approaches Hiccup, menacingly and brandishing a knife, are NOT the actions of an ally! If Throk is working for the Grimborns, he's there to bring Hiccup straight to Viggo himself (perhaps Viggo didn't trust that any two-bit bounty hunter would be able to complete the job). The only reason this was foiled was because Krogan wasn't aware of Throk's loyalties, and stole Hiccup for himself.
Sure, Throk is totally on Hiccup's side here
Shell Shocked
Throk was assigned to guard Viggo on Defenders of the Wing Island.
When Viggo was taken off by Throk, his hands were manacled. But by the time of Ryker's attack, his hands have been freed. Why would Throk have freed his hands unless he was helping him?
Throk is told to keep Viggo locked down while the riders battle Ryker. But by the time they get back, Throk admits that he has slipped away. The only two explanations are that Throk is completely incompetent… or he deliberately released Viggo.
Ruffnut
All of his interactions where he's 'falling in love' with Ruffnut come across as insincere. Assuming Throk is still working for Viggo post-volcano, perhaps he has been told to get close to one of the dragon riders, in an effort to a) get more information about them, and/or b) separate someone who can be used as a hostage.
A man who is trying a bit too hard
In conclusion
I've always found Throk to be a bit boring, but he immediately becomes much more interesting if he's been a double agent this whole time! Perhaps he's the Defenders of the Wing equivalent of Johann – playing a long game to ingratiate himself into a community, waiting for the perfect moment to betray them for his own gain.
This is just a silly little idea! I doubt the writers intended any of his actions this way. But it's fun to think about!
With the producers having completely different understandings of Hiccup and Toothless’ dynamic on top of Toothless as a character, the messaging deviation makes complete sense.
#wodensfang and hiccup the first <3#this comparison really gives the movie duo that much more beauty#The Wodensfang’s entire perspective on humans was changed due to the kindness of one human child#Not only was Hiccup the First defying the humans by befriending the Wodensfang but the Wodensfang was actively defying the dragons#by choosing to befriend Hiccup in turn.#The movie’s story following so close to that of the Wodensfang’s and his Hiccup just gives movie Toothless that much more depth!#The fandom focuses a lot on how Hiccup managed to befriend such a wild and magnificent animal#but Toothless was just as willing to befriend this unpredictable misunderstood creature#just as intrigued by Hiccup as Hiccup was of him#just as curious to learn#just as willing to reach out#and that’s what makes it beautiful#it’s a story about two soldiers on opposing sides of a war that reject the cycle of violence to instead chose companionship#just like it was in the books#sorry now I’m just rambling i just love this so much 😭#httyd#httyd books (via @wickedcriminal)
Lovely little sciency details from Httyd is how there's a variety of dragon species according to climate and habitat.
There's a bunch of dragons in the Book of Dragons but many of them are uncommon on Berk and some even reside far off. I recall Hiccup reading about thunderdrums being reclusive and residing in tidepools.
Whispering deaths are more common near Outcast Island and mostly Islands which are barren and much too rocky. And in rtte, the further they go from Berk, the more variety the gang encounters, all according to their habitats. They see some dragons for the very first time even though they've read about them in the book of dragons.
The whole zoological geography of it is wonderful. Deep sea dwellers, shallow water dwellers, cave dwellers, pack dragons, nesting dragons, territorial ones etc. They all exist but reside in places spread out and away. Places which are ideal for them. Amazing world building I tell you.
Every species lives in its ideal climate and habitat and they're not all found in one place, rarely ever. Berk's local dragons are usually the species the gang has and I noticed how these particular species were a lot more common in Dragon's Nest as depicted in first movie but not so much in Bewilderbeast's sanctuary, that has a completely different variety of dragon species.
A species not common to Berkian air and waters being seen there was peculiar or came as a surprise in many cases. And I loved the moments where the gang went: "this dragon which resides in a different habitat? What's it doing so far out here? Something must be up."
Love how most of these dragons had their own separate habitats and islands that weren't Berk or islands close to it (a radius of which mainly included the common species spread out from epicenter of Dragon Island [previously Red Death's nest]). It's even possible to map the different kinds of dragons according to their respective territories over the archipelago and beyond.
Love that the httyd universe is more inclined towards science than fantasy when it comes to dragons.
I agree so much! It's so cool how the ecology of the archipelago has all this detail and worldbuilding.
Reblogging with screenshots of OP's tags bc they raise some really good points about THW!
What about all the dragons that need specific habitats? What about Death Songs, which hypnotise and eat other dragons? What about Gronckles, which need certain rock types, while iirc the hidden world didn't really have much of those rocks, just coral structures and sparkly walls that I doubt Gronckles could eat from? What about the Eruptodon (which I know is a bit of an evolutionary mess: it only reproduces once in it's lifetime iirc, has a very specific diet, and eggs need very specific conditions to even hatch) which an entire island civilisation depends on? What about the Bewilderbeast under Beserker Island? It was never confirmed what happened with that one - or the egg either, which (despite the last RTTE episode showing Valka taking the egg) could not have been either of the Bewilderbeasts shown in the second film, since it would only be a year old, if that. What about the Razorwhips, as OP pointed out in the tags, and what about the whole tribe centred around them? Not to mention how many other tribes by now have dragons of their own. What about Submarippers and Shellfires? Skrills and Singetails? THW makes it look like a dragon utopia where all species live in harmony under Toothless's rule. But from everything we know about dragons from the previous movies and the shows, that logistically isn't possible.
I've got a couple of theories about other tribes' dragons - namely that Alphas are regional, as seen with the Beserker Island Bewilderbeast only summoning dragons in the area, and so when Toothless commands all the other dragons to leave (for New Berk, then for the Hidden World) he only took with him those previously living on Berk. But all that aside, it still doesn't work.
The world building for the franchise being that dragons are part of the ecosystem and are adapted to specific environments is far more interesting, and logical, than they can disappear off the face of the earth and survive in some cavern in the middle of the sea.
The beating heart of the How To Train Your Dragon franchise is 1) the theme of overcoming generational division and learning to coexist and 2) the worldbuilding.
So when the riders sent all the dragons away, is the implication that the Defenders of the Wing all died? And based on their relationship with the Berserkers, what are the implications for Heather and Dagur? And if the Wingmaidens didn’t die out after a generation because they were trapped on their island with no men, is the implication that their society collapsed without the razorwhips? 
Unfortunately the producer and writers didn’t bother treating the shows like canon so here we are.
It’s also weird treating the dragons like they are expendable to the environment, as if they aren’t tied to the ecosystems they inhabit. The ecosystems would be completely out of balance without dragons, they’ve inhabited the earth for a long time.
There’s a ton of other issues logistically on all the dragons living in the Hidden World but that can be its own post.
I know it’s never explained in the show, but how the hunters captured some dragons is unfathomable to me:
Seashockers
Catastrophic Quakens
Eruptadon
Submaripper
Shellfire
I recall in one episode it shows that one method to subduing a dragon is luring them into a trap with food then gassing them with dragon root.
I am not confident that would work with a Quaken given how incredibly powerful they are. But the gas method would not work on a tidal class dragon.
I am trying to fathom how dragon hunters found deep sea dragons. Let alone dragged and chained the submaripper, and got the shellfire under control enough to guide it and attach a base of operations to it.
For your larger dragons I imagine the biggest issue was finding them, deep sea dwellers are notoriously quick in the show and we hear from several people that the shellfire was impossible for the dragons to chase.
However once they did, the submaripper has been shown to be sensitive to vibrations from daggers, likely hinting at a type of echo location to track their prey. So the key would be driving it up towards the surface at high tide to an area that takes longer for lowtide to come in. This happens a lot with beached whales were something brings them to the surface towards beaches and they don’t recognise their own size so beach themselves. Essentially what I’m saying the hunters likely did was make a pool with an open end, disrupt the environment to flush the submaripper towards it, then as the sea level fell it was unable to emerge.
I’d assume a similar method was used for the shellfire since they appear to be controlled through Ryker’s hammer thing.
For the eruptidon, it seems to be quite used to human company so the most likely thing is they got close enough to shoot it through the dragon not being startled by their presence. As shown by the arrows left there. Then rolled it away on a large wagon. Probably would have taken a lot longer than the show implies since it’s heavily implied it happened at the top of the island but Tv logic.
Seashockers are quite rare according to Fishlegs so its very possible they aren’t as hunted but just as a thought experiment, I’d say you’d probably do a similar method to what he did. Allow them to surface in a lagoon, block off the exit, and lure them to the surface with fish. It’d be difficult and you’d likely need the net to be a more conducive material like copper so their shocks are contained. As we can see from fishlegs that the shocks aren’t powerful enough to kill so can likely be withstood though likely with some side affects
Catastrophic quakens are ones I’m actually a bit stumped by myself, above I mostly talked about real world fishing methods or the desensitisation of a specific species but the Quakens are naturally hostile. Surprising fast. And intelligent. I really think the only way you do “get” a qaken is if you raise it from an egg which is likely what happened to the two they use to harvest marble. I think the hunters would struggle to go after an adult to the point of the risk being too high.
Trapping the submaripper and shellfire in a pool makes sense. Likely in a contraption like where they were building the ship for Project Shellfire.
Given the fact the submaripper surfaced because of the small vibration of the dagger hitting the water, I theorize that they hunt animals/dragons that come to the ocean’s surface. Given their size and that they're predators, they are probably behave like orcas who eat just about anything. But instead of surfacing, they near the surface and create a whirlpool to draw their pray into its mouth. One possbility is that the hunter's disrupted the surface enough to lure the submaripper, likely using boats or chained tidal class dragons, to the pool.
As for the sea shockers, a possibility is that the hunters don’t come across them often but try to capture them given they are hard to come by. The method likely being reinforced nets and use a seashocker as bait to lure in other pod members.
As for the quakens, you're definitely right on the money with the hunters raising the quakens since hatchlings given their aggression. It also makes sense given in the episode "Between a Rock and a Hard Place” the quakens initially didn’t want to be free, meaning they’ve been in captivity for a long time.
Ryker had a son, but he died, and it was part of what disqualified him from being considered "chief material" in their tribe's eyes
Warning for non-descriptive child death.
Essentially, Ryker was not really interested in any of the women from his tribe so his grandfather sent him away on a vouage of sorts to "secure more land" (really, it was because he already favoured Viggo, but Viggo was a few years younger, and he wanted Ryker out of the way while he came of age so Viggo had a better chance of securing more poltical power) However ryker did actually end up meeting a woman he liked. The two of them returned to the hunters to get married. His wife soon giving birth to his son
Ryker was really insistent on her and their son joining him on hunts, to instil the dragon hunting mentality early. Due to that insistence, they were often put in dangerous situations, and one time, rather publicly, Ryker's son was killed by a Monstrous Nightmare, with Viggo also getting injured in that attack and earning a neck scar in the process. Ryker was shoned as a reckless fool, whereas Viggo was praised and hailed as a hero willing to put his life on the line to save his nephew, though unsuccessful.
After that, Ryker's marriage soon dissolved in her eventually leaving, but even to his last days, Ryker can't help but ponder how "perfect" that whole incident was for his brother. His brother, a man who avoided most hunts, just happened to be there in the line of fire, his son happened to be killed outright, yet Viggo, surely the more immediate threat, escaped with only a scar, his grandfather was ready to make Ryker the public fool to his tribe.
Something about the whole situation has always given Ryker some pause, perhaps that was why, when his grandfather called out to him for assistance all those years later, frail and staring down the eye of a nadder with exposed spikes, Ryker did not aim for the belly...
I know it’s never explained in the show, but how the hunters captured some dragons is unfathomable to me:
Seashockers
Catastrophic Quakens
Eruptadon
Submaripper
Shellfire
I recall in one episode it shows that one method to subduing a dragon is luring them into a trap with food then gassing them with dragon root.
I am not confident that would work with a Quaken given how incredibly powerful they are. But the gas method would not work on a tidal class dragon.
I am trying to fathom how dragon hunters found deep sea dragons. Let alone dragged and chained the submaripper, and got the shellfire under control enough to guide it and attach a base of operations to it.
toothless is not the all-powerful dragon that he's implied to be in the movies. he has weaknesses, including that of eels, grimora, blue oleander, and death song amber. he's not the fastest, either, as demonstrated by a skrill that rides lightning to instantly zap into the clouds. snow wraiths are able to fly at crazy speeds even during blizzards.
now i'd like to clarify i am not hating on night furies. they're great, their design is slick & unique (to the series at least), and they have some things that make them stand out. But they are not at the top of the hierarchy like they're made out to be by the sheer amount of plot armor toothless is given.
I really liked how the shows established that night furies are powerful dragons yet still has shortcomings, like any other dragon. It kept the story grounded and provided stakes.
Shattermaster didn’t die on the attack on the edge but he was injured and can no longer fly. Dagur let’s him stay at the amoury to help out with metal work and assist in basic dragon training, the Beserkers don’t typically train dragons so its more there to desensitise their warriors.
Dagur visits often and the two often try to find ways to recreate their old moves from the ground.
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