sometimes a family is you, 45,820 fandoms, and 4,000,000 registered users
🥳 Congratulations AO3! 🎉
todays bird

❣ Chile in a Photography ❣

#extradirty
Aqua Utopia|海の底で記憶を紡ぐ
$LAYYYTER
EXPECTATIONS

Kaledo Art
"I'm Dorothy Gale from Kansas"
KIROKAZE

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art blog(derogatory)

Product Placement
trying on a metaphor
macklin celebrini has autism

pixel skylines
Three Goblin Art
hello vonnie
Stranger Things

if i look back, i am lost
Jules of Nature
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@fannishstudying
sometimes a family is you, 45,820 fandoms, and 4,000,000 registered users
🥳 Congratulations AO3! 🎉
Hot take: maybe if we stopped shaming people for reading fic on FFN and Wattpad, they'd continue reading on sites that they're comfortable with and know the culture of and can find the fics they want to read.
Scorching take: I love AO3, but the interface is not as easy as you think it is for a newcomer who is very used to the sites they're already using.
In summary: let people read the fic they want to read on the sites where they want to read it, and if they decide for themselves that AO3 seems like a site they want to learn how to use, point them to resources that will help them learn how to use it.
For example: if you're new to AO3, you might find it really useful to tap on the word About in the red bar at the top of the page and then choose FAQ from the dropdown. And if you're new to posting on AO3, tap on any blue question mark bubbles you see and they'll tell you what a thing means and what you should do with it.
MDZS/CQL fandom can pride themselves knowing that a single wangxian fic became so well-known and equally despised that ao3 had to change their rules. absolutely Incredible. Powerful. Iconic even.
An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works
In the coming days, we’ll be rolling out a code change that limits the total number of fandom, character, relationship, and additional tags that can be added to a work. This limit of 75 tags will apply to both new and existing works, but no tags will be automatically removed from existing works.
Afrikaans • العربية • Bahasa Indonesia • Български • বাংলা • català • Cymraeg • dansk • Deutsch • Ελληνικά • English • español • français • 한국어 • हिंदी • hrvatski • italiano • עברית • lietuvių kalba • magyar • Malay • मराठी • Nederlands • 日本語 • norsk • polski • português brasileiro • português europeu • Română • Русский • slovenčina • slovenščina • српски • suomi • svenska • ไทย • Tiếng Việt • Türkçe • Українська • 中文
People have forgotten that fandom content is not free. We don’t pay with money but with engagement. If you see art, or fanfict, or gifsets, etc. that you like, and want to keep seeing more in the future, you have to do more than leave a passive like. Reblog, leave a comment too even. People who feel their work isn’t appreciated they will stop sharing it. If you don’t want fandom to die, comment on what you consume and engage with the other fans. That’s fandom’s currency, don’t forget it.
Plagiarism Alert: Author Romilly King Plagiarized Destiel Fanfic
eHey ya'll - reposting this on Tumblr, on behalf of a the OP on Twitter, who gave me permission. The original thread is here: https://twitter.com/KokomRoily/status/1422965705167806471
(if you have trouble reading the side-by-sides check Twitter)
FROM TWITTER (I am NOT the "I" in these! But I know who is, they're a friend, and this evidence looks pretty iron-clad to me)
>I'm what you'd call a voracious reader. I read all the time, everywhere. I read non-fiction, fiction, & fanfiction. I don't discriminate great stories. What I do despise is plagiarism. Color me surprised when I bought "Paid to Kneel" by Romilly King. It seemed so familiar.
>By chapter 2, I realised I could mouth along with the lines, because this is almost verbatim "You can hurt me, it's okay, baby" by Blue_Jack.
>All of these screenshots are of "Paid to Kneel" (with yellow highlights of plagiarised text) next to "If you hurt me, that's okay, baby" by Blue_Jack on Ao3.
(unforth's note: ...I've hit Tumblr's image limit, but you get the idea. There are even more images on Twitter, but even just these ten prove the point. Here's the rest of OP's commentary from the thread)
>I contacted Blue Jack to see if they're Romilly. They're not. They filed a plagiarisation claim with Amazon, who pulled the book. The audio book still remains, for the moment.
>Romilly has published a book approximately once a month during 2020 and into 2021. It's entirely possible she's been writing ahead of time and is only publishing now. It's also entirely possible she's plagiarised more fic.
>The plagiarisation isn't even remotely subtle.
>This was a work put out into the world to be enjoyed for free. Blue_Jack spent *hours and hours* writing and editing this *for free*, for people to enjoy *for free*, and someone tried profiting from it. That's not okay.
>If this fanfiction has been plagiarised so thoroughly, how can I trust other books by Romilly aren't also plagiarised fic? If this fanfiction has been plagiarised so thoroughly, how can I trust other books by Romilly aren't also plagiarised fic?
>I suggest you go read the fanfic, if you like kinky Destiel. It's *most* excellent. https://archiveofourown.org/works/5200685
And a little more from me -
Romilly King has almost 23 books out since early last year up on Amazon. They've got thousands of reviews on Goodreads. Given how often they publish, and how flagrantly they plagiarized this one, whatcha want to bet they've stolen wholesale from many different authors in different fandoms? This is major, guys, and totally unacceptable.
Spread this like wild-fire, and let's bring this plagiarist down in flames!
I can also confirm the thoroughness that the OP did with their research. Upon investigation, some of the themes of their books could be matched to themes from the MCU, Untamed, and Star Trek fandoms. As there are so many fics among these fandoms, it’s near impossible to scour them all. But if this could also get into those lanes, it could help bring down the plagiarist.
I'm requesting everyone to please crosspost their fics to AO3 ASAP.
If the Tumblr Post+ thing goes live, and people put their fanfiction behind a paywall, we're all screwed. Tumblr will either shut down or will delete all fanfiction posted here. Because massive lawsuits will happen, the likes of which Tumblr cannot fight.
Fanfiction or gifs of movies/shows cannot be used to gain any profit. It's illegal as per Intellectual Property Rights; the rights to use anything derived from these media entities belong to the production company only.
There's no way to make profit off these things, but some people will try. And it'll spell disaster. Because it only needs a few idiots to ruin everyone's enjoyment.
So please, keep your lifeboats ready and move your fanworks to AO3, which is free and is a safe haven for fanfiction and even fanart and other media.
There was a post I saw the other day. I can’t remember who’s blog I saw it on so I have no way of finding it. Basically the OP was complaining about ao3 not having a good blocking function, and someone else in the comments was laughing at the irony of being on tumblr and complaining about ao3’s filtration system.
Yes, tumblr’s filtration system is pretty shitty when it comes to curating *types of content* — AO3′s content filtering is obviously vastly superior.
But I’m pretty sure the OP was talking about blocking *people,* not content.
Tumblr is *excellent* when it comes to blocking people.
When I block someone on tumblr, they cease to exist for me. If I accidentally click on a mystery hyperlink to the blog of someone I blocked, I get a big warning asking if I’m sure I want to go there. If I click on a blog of someone who’s blocked me, the blog appears empty.
.
I’ve posted at length about this before, but as a POC in fandom, my biggest concern isn’t avoiding any particular genre or kink or pairing. My biggest concern is avoiding stories written by racist authors, who in most cases do not have any self-awareness of their racism, and therefore do not tag any of the racist tropes their stories are riddled with.
Author’s who, for example, write MCU fic in which Tony Stark becomes Wakanda’s white savior, or write “Alternate Universe - Human” fic where all the white characters are interns at a law firm, and all the POC characters are janitorial staff.
God, I’ll never forget this AU fic I read in Stargate: Atlantis fandom where the author made the white protagonists dog walkers and made the non-white protagonists … you guessed it … the dogs that they were walking.
That’s the kind of bullshit I want to avoid, and most effective way of filtering fic like that it is filtering the specific usernames of the authors who write it.
There are ways to do that. In fact my blog has an #AO3 hacks tag which lists 3 options.
Unfortunately implementing these require a considerably higher degree of tech savvy than the average AO3 user is comfortable with. Especially if you want to implement the same filtering across multiple browsers on multiple devices.
.
And while I don’t post a whole lot of fic to AO3 and this has never been an issue for me personally, I know that authors don’t have a lot of options when it comes dealing with harassment via fic comments. I think you can turn off commenting on a story, or moderate commenting, but as far as I know, there’s no way to ban specific people from leaving comments.
Each story published to AO3 is equipped with its own comment forum. AO3′s the only site I can think of that has comment forums yet doesn’t allow the moderator of the forum to ban specific users from commenting in it.
.
I know much of what I’m saying here is stuff I’ve said before.
Anyway.
I guess my point is that, AO3 is not a social media platform, but it is a media platform. And I think people assume, incorrectly, that because it has less “social” function than a social media platform, that there’s not enough user interaction to justify a block function.
But it’s actually a pretty major concern, especially if you’re a Person of Color in fandom.
They are, apparently, planning to put blocking in place soon, even if it only took them… a decade.
There’s an interesting discussion going on in the notes between @ryuutchi and @elinimate:
elinimate: it didn’t take them a decade. This is not an issue that’s been brought up as a major priority until pretty recently. Plus programming a block isn’t as easy as it sounds. A pure block means a blocked author doesn’t show up in any fandom or tag you browse fics for as long as you’re logged in. And everything else needs to keep working as designed.
ryuutchi: Blocking has been requested pretty much since the site’s inception. Maybe it’s closer to eight years, but I’ve been seeing “why can’t we block people” for nearly the whole of AO3’s existence
Before I say anything, a disclaimer: I volunteer with the OTW as a tag wrangler, but I am not speaking on the behalf of or for the organisation, ao3, its coders, or the tag wranglng committee.
That said:
Implementing a blocking feature takes a lot more work than even elinimate said; a user who blocks me would expect the following:
On their end:
not see my works
not see my comments on others’ works or on news posts
not be assigned to me during challenge matchups and not getting me assigned to them
not see my bookmarks
not seeing any of my prompts
not seeing any of my collection
not see any of the kudos I’ve left on any work
On my end:
not allow me to comment on any of their works
possibly not allow me to see any of their works
not be assigned to them during challenge matchups and not getting them assigned to me
not allowing me to see their bookmarks
not seeing any of their prompts
not allowing me to post a fill any of their prompts
possibly not seeing any of their collections
not let me see their kudos on any work
not allow me to kudos their work
If that doesn’t sound horrifically complicated enough, there’s also the issue of anonymous works, private works, orphaned works, and pseuds. Are blocks pseud-dependent? User dependent? Are works orphaned by a person who blocked me still invisible to me? Full orphaning (= no name attached)? Orphaning with their username attached? Would we be able to see and interact with each other’s anonymous works? If no, then doesn’t it break anonymity, in a way? If yes, that could be harassment.
Add to that my concern as a tag wrangler: would I be able to see their tags in my bins so I can wrangle them? If a tag doesn’t make sense out of context, how can I check what it means by clicking on their work?
This isn’t an idle worry, by the way – I’m assuming that if I was blocked, it was likely because we were sharing a fandom space, possibly one of the fandoms I wrangle.
And that’s just me as a tag wrangler! What about a Support volunteer? A policy and Abuse volunteer? If the chairs of those committees are blocked by the user having trouble, and there’s a problem that requires their involvement – what happens then?
Basically, adding a block like what tumblr has requires touching the code of the entire infrastructure of ao3, on each and every level of the site. It takes a lot of planning and a lot of arguing and then a lot of coding. And after that? A fuckton of testing, because dependencies are a thing, and if you change one thing in how the works module works, you might end up breaking the tag wrangling module in fun and unexpected ways.
Nobody’s ever said that ao3 couldn’t use a blocking feature – on the contrary. Everybody in the otw I’ve talked to about it would love having it. The problem is that it’s a lot of work, done by volunteers in addition to their own full time jobs, schools, and families, and the plain fact is that keeping the site functioning as it does now is taking most of the volunteers’ focus. First, ao3 needs to work; then, it needs to do that core work well. Only after that can it work better.
To add to the list (using programming names):
Are blocks retroactive? If Betty has been commenting on Alice’s works for the last ten years and gets blocked in 2022, what happens to the previous comments and kudos? Is the content hidden or destroyed?
Conversely, what happens when Alice unblocks Betty? If the content was destroyed, it’s gone. If it’s only hidden, can we guarantee it won’t leak?
Alice and Betty co-created a work in 2015. Alice blocks and mutes Betty in 2022.
Who’s listed on the work?
Where does the work appear?
Which creator can comment on the work?
Ibid Series
Ibid anything else that can have multiple creators.
Orphan works are truly a sticky spot, because we don’t keep any info on them. Even when you “leave your pseud on it,” that’s not your pseud - it’s a pseud of the same string of characters made on the orphan account. It’s in no way connected to the original account.
How do we respect orphaning anonymity and blocking? (Probably can’t.)
Alice blocks Betty’s works. Betty, for malice or incidence (name change due to co-worker nosiness, frex), transfers all her works to a new NotBetty account.
Is it possible to connect the accounts for the block but not out Betty’s new name? (Probably not - it’d have a different email, and IPs are not distinctive or identifying, and we don’t currently keep a creator chain on the works.)
Challenges. If I drank, this would kill my liver.
For a soupçon of the simple questions: Alice is the owner of a challenge, Betty’s a mod, Betty has Cindy blocked,
can Cindy sign up for a gift exchange?
Prompt meme?
Generic collection?
If yes, does that break through Betty’s block? (Hope not.)
If no, it becomes obvious one of the mods has Cindy blocked. (And lo, the darkening of the sky on the horizon is the incoming wankstorm.)
Does it matter if the blocker is an owner or mod?
Alice and Betty as mods are fine with Cindy, but Delilah as another participant is not, and has Cindy blocked:
Can Cindy sign up if Delilah’s already signed up?
Can Delilah sign up if Cindy already has?
Does Cindy get booted if Delilah signs up?
Does Delilah get a warning that Cindy’s signed up?
Does that warning trigger even when participants are still anon?
(For once in the lifetime of challenges, matching is easy: it won’t.)
Does it function differently in a small five-person exchange than it does in a large exchange like Yuletide or Kaleidoscope? (Side note: someone needs to resurrect Kaleidoscope once we have block-the-racist-assholes in place.)
How does blocking work in a completed exchange?
In an already-matched-but-not-fulfilled exchange?
Can a mod add a work of a person they blocked but not muted?
Can a mod add a bookmark of a person they blocked but not muted?
Alice blocks Betty. Alice creates a tag set.
Can Betty run a challenge using that tag set?
Can Cindy add Betty as a mod to a challenge using that tag set?
If you can decipher the direct link, can you download works as the
blockee?
Blocker?
Fuck caching. Just. If you know, you know. Fuck caching.
How against the ToS is evading a block? What about sharing that someone is blocked/muted?
How “silent” is the block?
Does it clearly let the person blocked know that someone applied the duck tape when they try to interact? (Wank.)
Does it throw an “error”? (More work for Support.)
Obligatory “when we get around to coding the (opt-in or I’m gone) PM system everyone seems to want for some wild reason” entry. Straightforward, but still.
Be advised that that is not comprehensive. That’s just off the top of my head.
I will note: Support has a staff account, and longer-term volunteers have dedicated admin accounts that will very likely be unblockable (read: I will fight people over this). None of the Support or PAC people do work on their fannish account, and many of them actually do their volunteer work under a different name than their fannish works.
It’s not that we don’t want blocking and muting. By all the gods, we do - most of us have a little of people who won’t be missed. But an actual working block/mute may possibly the most complicated thing we’ve coded on the Archive, and I troubleshoot challenge matching at least monthly.
Things I personally would find interesting:
Being able to have the block and mute list be exportable and importable.
Then you could have curated lists and we could all live in our bubles.
Even if you take nothing else from this post, please, for the love of all the fanworks on ao3, take this: implementing user blocking is hard.
If you want to hide certain users’ works from showing up in both tags and their own user profile, it’s easier to make a skin and add this bit of code there:
.blurb.user-user_ID_number_here { display: none !important; }
You can find the user ID number in a user’s profile. This will hide works completely.
If you want to know that you’re blocking something and why, you can do it like this:
.blurb.user-user_ID_number_here :not(.summary) { display: none !important; } .blurb.user-user_ID_number_here .summary::after { content: "whatever reason you want to give"; }
So, if you’ve watched my general meltdown about criticism in fanfiction, I am concerned it may have given you the impression I don’t like constructive criticism or that I somehow can’t handle/take being told I’m wrong. However, that’s not true. I actually LOVE constructive criticism. I have absolutely no intention of “going pro” with my writing, but I LOVE to improve my craft just because it’s something I love to do and I want to be good at it. Ask literally anyone who has ever beta read for me about how I take criticism, they’ll say “very well.”
So if I like to receive criticism, if I absolutely have a thick enough skin to receive it and have a drive to improve, WHY am I throwing punches about unsoliticted criticism in fanfiction?
Because it’s unsolicited.
Because there is a time and a place for it, and after a story is finished isn’t either. Criticism can ONLY be constructive if it’s given during the construction of the piece. After the piece is finished, criticism is no longer constructive; it’s just criticism.
Because I’m not presenting it for critique by random stranger #11429 on the internet, I’m presenting it for enjoyment- both yours and mine. If I was posting it for critique, I would have said so. Many people DO say so, and I hope they get all of it they could possibly want. But I’m not, and most other people aren’t, either. Just because my story is presented in a public forum doesn’t mean I’m asking for it.
Because when I post a story, I’m not in the mindset to receive criticism. When I bring in others to edit my work, I am mentally prepared to be told “ x, y, and z things are wrong and need fixing.” It’s the difference between being ready to take a punch and being cold-cocked without warning. It’s not that I can’t take a punch, it’s that I don’t WANT to unless I’m ready for it.
Because you didn’t give me a choice. I gave you a choice- read this or don’t read this. You chose to read it. You didn’t give me a choice about whether or not to receive your criticism, you just went ahead and punched me.
Because I’ve already done all the editing I’m going to do. By the time a story is posted, it’s already been through alpha reading with me, it’s already been through beta/editing with my beta readers. I’ve put in a lot of work already, and instead of telling me “thanks/good job/I liked this” you’re choosing to say “why didn’t you do more/better” as if the rest doesn’t matter. But it matters to me.
Because I’m doing this for fun, and when people read the thousands of words I’ve put together for them and then focus on the mistakes, it makes writing not fun anymore. If you work really hard to bake someone an awesome cake, hoping they will like it, and they eat it and say “I would have preferred chocolate” or “this 1 flower was messed up” instead of thanking you, it would really suck. Same deal. I work to write stories I enjoy and that I think others will enjoy, but it’s a real killjoy when someone swoops in just to talk about what went wrong.
Because it’s unsolicited. If I’m out in public and some person I don’t know tells me “you’d be prettier if you let your hair down,” that’s unsolicited criticism, too. It’s different if I say to a friend, hey, how could I improve my appearance and they say “you should let your hair down.” Same words, but context matters. Who is delivering the criticism matters.
And those are just the reasons I personally don’t want criticism on my fanfiction, even though I’m fully capable of handling it. For others, all of the above may apply and more.
In addition to this, I’d like to make a few more points about the arguments I have seen.:
Gatekeeping hurts everyone. Almost every single argument I’ve seen in favor of unsolicitied criticism has boiled down to gatekeeping. What is gatekeeping? The action of controlling (and restricting) access to something. In this case, fandom and fanfiction.
When you say any iteration of “Back in MY day, people got and gave criticism freely, new people should have to accept crit too” what you’re doing is gatekeeping. You’re saying “you shouldn’t be able to participate in fandom unless you go through the same experiences I went through.” That’s not correct. Fandom is for anyone that can adhere to the current etiquette of fandom.
What you are doing when you say “If you only want positive feedback, only share with people you trust” is gatekeeping. You’re saying “you shouldn’t participate in fandom unless you’re willing to be hurt.” That’s bad. No one should have to be hurt to be in fandom.
What you are doing when you say “If you don’t want crit, don’t post your story” is gatekeeping, and in a REALLY harmful way. Without fans creating work (fanfiction or art or meta), there is no fandom. You’re not only saying “you can’t be in fandom if you don’t want to be hurt” you’re actively calling for fandom to be cut down. That’s a bad thing. Fandom needs creator content in order to exist and grow.
What you are doing when you say “it’s unfair to accept positive feedback if you won’t accept negative feedback” is gatekeeping. You are telling people they can’t be in your community if they set boundaries. You are telling people that they can’t be in fandom if they only want to have a good time, they have to be willing to be hurt, too. That’s wrong. Fandom isn’t about hurting each other.
When you tell writers that they are consenting to criticism by posting in public, you are gatekeeping AND violating their consent. You are saying that their work isn’t allowed to exist in fandom’s shared space unless the writer forfeits consent. That’s not true. Fanfiction writers can and should set boundaries for their interactions with people in fandom specifically because we don’t have a publishing company standing between us and you.
Which brings me to another point- when you say that people should accept criticism because that’s how they improve, what you are doing is gatekeeping. You are saying that anyone that does not want to improve doesn’t belong in fandom. That’s not true. Some people just want to have fun, and they are every bit as welcome in my communities as anyone else.
Any iteration of “the world is a harsh place” is, you guessed it, gatekeeping. It’s saying that people don’t belong in fandom if they can’t tolerate being treated just as poorly here as in the physcial world. That’s bullshit. Fandom is supposed to be safe. Fandom is supposed to be a caring community that takes care of its own. Fandom isn’t the physical world, it’s space made by fans for fans where we can be ourselves and be gentle with one another. If it’s not, if you really do think fandom is as hard as the real world, then you should be looking for ways to makes your edges soft. You can’t change the world, but you can make sure you, personally, are not making the situation worse.
Some people will say things like “if it can be corrected in a matter of seconds, it’s okay” (for example, typos) and liken that to a stranger pointing out you’ve got spinach in your teeth. It’s not the same. A stranger pointing out you’ve got spinach in your teeth does so in the most discreet way possible- by pointing without speaking or by speaking in a low voice so that only the stranger and you are made aware of your issue. Leaving a comment which points out even small things like typos is done in a public, open space where everyone can see, AND it leaves behind a mark; even if a writer fixes the issue, the comment is still there declaring that there was one. If you want to use the spinach analogy again- a stranger has just declared to everyone in the room that you’ve got spinach in your teeth, and pinned a note to your apparel which notifies anyone in the future that you DID have spinach in your teeth even if it’s gone now.
Some people will say things like “Well I want criticism!” and go on to imply that anyone that doesn’t is some variation of weak/thin-skinned. This is an argument I don’t understand at all. Of course some people can’t handle it; those are the people we need to protect, not the people we need to attack. Everyone is different. We all have different backgrounds. We are all here for different reasons. If you want criticism, you can give active consent! You can say you welcome it, that you want it. You wanting criticism does not in ANY way mean we should strip consent away from other people. It means you know you can take a punch; it doesn’t mean we get to punch anyone we feel like at any time.
I think, at the end of the day, that the real world is a harsh and unforgiving enough place that we don’t need to bring that into our home. Fandom is a place of love. It is a place of safety. It is a place of giving, of fun, of freedom. We don’t have to have sharp edges and tongues here.
We can afford to be nice to one another in fandom.
After all, fanfiction is free.
These are very good points.
So how do you difference between criticisms and reviews? Part of any work of art, at least for the audience, is leaving information to other readers/public so they can decide if they want to engage on it. Part of my perusal of fanfics (and books on general) is reading the reviews to see if the work is something I want or not. Since normally this part is the comment section, what can a reader do to give their opinion of a work that is not for the author, but for other readers or for themselves?
AO3, at least, differentiates between bookmarks and comments, and additionally it allows you to mark bookmarks as just bookmarks, private bookmarks, and recommendations.
Comments are an author’s territory, you don’t go pissing in there. Period. You visit nicely or you get out.
Bookmarks/Recs? That’s your “reviews” section. Bookmarks are for the reader to tell themselves (or others) what’s going on. That’s a reader’s space. Can authors see it? Sure, but they have to go looking for it the same way they’d have to go looking on Goodreads or whatever other sites have reviews meant for readers. If an author goes into the bookmarks section of their fics, its on them if they get upset at what they find. That’s why there’s no space for the author to respond to bookmarks- it’s literally not for them. That’s why there’s a space for you, the reader, to add in commentary with each bookmark. other sites don’t have this feature so Idk what to tell you about them, except:::
Fic recs! I haven’t seen this around as much anymore, but you are 100% capable of posting on your own spaces about fiction too, there’s no reason you HAVE to come into our space to have a say. Write a tumblr post about a fic to tell others about it. Tweet about it. Whatever floats your boat, you have your own spaces in which you can talk about fiction without damaging the fanfic writers out here to have a good time and help others have a good time, too.
The caveat to the last bit is PLEASE do not post fanfiction on goodreads or other Published Fiction sites and review it like it’s a published original, they come from two entirely different worlds and it’s really shitty when people do this to fanfiction authors. They are both stories, yes, but they are completely different beasts and should be respected as such.
writing fanfics is wild because you could have 12000 people read it and get like, seven comments
And that’s why you stop posting fanfic
I’m being really serious about this guys. If you post a fic and get 112 hits, 100 kudos and 50 comments? You will write so many more stories and post them all. But 11200 hits, 120 kudos and 12 comments? You may write another story, but you’ll have no REASON to POST it.
Also I cannot emphasize enough how much story-hosting websites (ie AO3) ARE NOT SOCIAL MEDIA. It literally DOES NOT MATTER HOW LONG AGO SOMETHING WAS PUBLISHED; IF YOU CONSUMED IT YOU ARE STILL OBLIGATED TO THANK THE PERSON WHO PROVIDED IT FOR YOU, even if just by leaving kudos.
im gonna go a step further and say no kudos isn’t enough!!!! and writers should not have to fucking BEG to hear from their readers!!!! like it’s bullshit,,,, y'all need get into the habit of leaving comments like emojis and keyboardsmashing if it’s difficult and take it from someone who had to practice but with practice it gets much easier to leave comments on everything you read (that you finish)
As a writer, i can only say this is so true! Comments are what keep me going. Getting these AO3 e-mails with “username left a comment on title of fic” has me literally jumping and squealing. It means so, so much!
As a reader, i always try to leave kudos and comments… because i know how much it means…
While I totally believe in the Analytic Thesis on Fanfics (the idea that fanfics are analytic texts written in narrative form, justified by virtue of being someone's interpretation of canon), I don't buy into the formulation of this thesis that specifically excludes AUs.
OP has raised the point that AUs where you transplant the characters into different worlds lose their analytic edge and become more like "dress-up".
While certain fics do happen to be like this, I don't think this is generalizable. In fact, I argue that certain character studies work even better in AUs because you get to push them into character-revealing situations that canon didn't provide or couldn't provide.
Obviously you can't fully and exactly explore the world-building or dissect the story beats of canon when doing AUs, but if you preserve the character traits from canon, you can totally still write effective character studies in AUs.
Anyways, tangentially related to this is my essay on AU enjoyment. People who enjoy the "dress-up" kind of fics mentioned above are typically character non-essentialists, while those who don't find that much enjoyment of AUs are typically character essentialists. More details in the linked essay.
There seems to be a trend on Tumblr where people call Classical works such as: Dante’s Inferno, Milton’s Paradise Lost, and other as Fanfiction because they use characteristics that are used in fanfics today. And the issue is that you are taking something that exists today and putting it into context thousands of years ago. Dante’s «La Divina Commedia» was completed in 1320. Do you think he just “Self-inserted to get with the main character”…? Do you think he thought about fanfiction? I have to take a quote from @janiedean ‘s post about Dante over here ( x ) “It’s fanfics that exist because of those tropes and use them because they were successful in published literature.”
This is not a put-down of Fanfiction. We love fanfics. Holy shit fanfiction is what got me into writing. There are so many beautifully crafted fanfics. But, you need to stop calling Milton, Dante, Dumas etc a fanfic writers because they are not. If you don’t want to read the entire long post here is the paragraph where I copied the line from:
“But please, do tell that thinking about it should make me feel better about writing fanfic when it’s not Dante writing fanfic tropes, it’s fanfics that exist because of those tropes and use them because they were successful in published literature. Actually, don’t put Dante and fanfic in the same sentence again ever because it just shows you haven’t read the book and if you did then you skipped all the notes and the introduction. Don’t be like the guy who took that stuff above, made a video game where Dante is a muscular hunk who kills his way through Hell to save Beatrice from it saying that it seemed like a good idea and when asked if he’d have done the same with, say, Macbeth, answered that ‘it could work but Shakespeare is sacred so I wouldn’t touch him ever’. Newsflash: Dante is the same as Shakespeare to us except more important because Shakespeare didn’t write the first major opus of English Literature, and Dante did, so…. just please don’t. Thanks. Bye. “
See, here’s my issue with posts such as these:
terms such as ‘fanfiction; have certain (albeit negative) connotations today that did not exist in the past, and while Dante and Shakespeare were not thinking about that, because, honestly, HOW COULD THEY?, that doesn’t negate the fact that a solid argument is that they did write what could be considered to be fanfiction.
The thing with linguistics and general terms is that they exist long before we put actual names to them. Fanfiction as a concept is nothing more than fiction that is based off of other works: using characters or plots from other places that came before it. And in this context, the shoe fits.
Here’s my issue: we have placed classical literature and canon upon an unreachable pedestal, and while I admit that classical works can be great, awe-inspiring, wonderful, that does not mean that other things cannot be. To say that “it’s not Dante writing fanfic tropes, it’s fanfics that exist because of those tropes and use them” is, frankly, ridiculous. It’s a chicken and an egg scenario. If he is implementing those tropes, creating them, then he is taking part in them and is, by DEFINITION, a part of it. The idea that somehow we are…sullying? classical works by comparing them to fanfiction is asinine. Was Dante brilliant? Undoubtedly. Writing an entire text in nothing but cantos is ridiculously impressive. He was a gifted writer. But fanfiction is not a bad thing to be compared to. It is posts such as these that imply that, yeah, fanfiction is OKAY, but it isn’t REAL writing like the GREATS, that gives it a poor name.
Fanfiction is wonderful. It starts people’s writing careers. It inspires imagination. And, the best of it: it is the most pure way of showing that literature, as a conversation existing between author and reader via written work, is a permeable dialogue that can, in fact, go both ways. And that is GORGEOUS. Everything is influenced by something else: Fanfiction is just the most blatant about it.
Taking something that exists today and using it to explain things that occurred several thousand years in the past is what humanity DOES. Fanfiction is no new concept that came about when the internet was born. In the same way people looked at the sky and didn’t have names or explanations for what was happening up there: we fill in the gaps. WE, now, explain these things using terminology that relates to us today.
Because if we put literature in a great glass case and claim it is untouchable by modern hands, we’re doing it an insult. Did people from the 1800′s have feminist analysis? Of course they did: in a way. They didn’t CALL it that but there is no doubt that people DID feminist analysis, at least once.
Feminism existed long before a word came to it. Astronomy existed long before a word was attached to it. Saying that we cannot compare Milton, who wrote a retelling of the bible, a, regardless of theological significance, text that existed before it, or saying that we cannot compare the fact that Shakespeare wrote of Desdemona despite borrowing her entire character from a different writer to fanfiction holds little to no weight. It is, at best, implying that Fanfiction is something that is an insult to be compared, and, at worst, claiming that classical works should never be compared to modern and thus reaks of the hoity toity pretension of dusty academia and gatekeeping.
So, frankly, to the person in the quoted segment: Fanfiction is something that is beautiful for a multitude of reasons. The biggest reason it has such a bad name is because there are no gatekeepers. And that is both wonderful and awful, but that’s a conversation for a different day.
Literature evolves. It always will. And all literature is subject to scrutiny and comparison. Even your ‘sacred’ Dante.
Because, guess what? Fanfiction is not an insult no matter how much people want to use it as such. And, by virtue of definition, if Dante and Shakespeare and Milton and what and who have you used tropes that paved the way for what Fanfiction is today: that means they took part in it, regardless of whether we had a name to analyze or compare it to such, yet.
I was always under the assumption that the main purpose for comparing classical literature to modern fanfiction was not to downplay the worth of classics but actually protect the value of the fanfiction. Modern scholars are not dismissing or downplaying the achievements of Dante or James Joyce because they did not create entirely new worlds and characters, and so too should scholars and laypeople not dismiss contemporary fanfiction as lacking value for that same reason. I can understand seeing Internet Speak about it as flippant and hyperbolic, and so some of that meaning can be lost, but overall I thought the message was clear that it was meant to validate the struggles of modern fanfic authors, not invalidate renowned authors. People who have been ridiculed for working within the confines of a previously established canon can use it to feel that their passion is not inherently without worth.
I am sorry, but here we’re talking about Tumblr and Tumblr is full of people who actively belittle such works as La Divina Commedia in order to raise the value of fanfic and the moment you feel the need to do that, you already lost your argument. Nobody here is demeaning fanfiction, but it is a matter of fact, and anybody with basic logic and knowledge about what they are talking about would know, that they are not the same thing.
The concept of originality and its praise has not always been a thing until recent times. In the past your works were valued if they took pre-existing tropes and characters/people from the culture you were immersed in and gave them an inventive/new/stunning spin to them or outright modified them to a point of being considered better. Which is a thing that can also happen in fanfiction, but those people don’t talk about that.
What Tumblr people are saying is, “look! The classics used pre-existing elements in their works, so they are the same as fanfiction. Let’s ignore the whole package that comes with these works because fanfiction lacks those and we can’t be intellectually honest if we go on with this argument. But whatever! Who cares? Like, Beatrice was just a manic pixie, right? Also, let’s call Dante a self insert, when self inserts are something that our community itself generally dislikes and we are missing the point of his work anyway!”
Do you know what La Divina Commedia has that fanfiction doesn’t. A context in which it gave one country it’s language and it shaped that country’s culture. Oh, also the fact that Dante invented a new rime and that he used that rime consistently throughout all his verses, which were all made out of 11 sillables each. Political, philosophical, literary and religious commentary is also there, as well as different styles of writing based on the theme he dealt with and an amount of knowledge so huge that you’d ask yourself how so much of it even had any room to fit in his head. Like, I’d like to see today one fanfic author write such a work and spend 20 years of their life creating and perfecting it.
Like, the point is that there is no comparison. Yes, people who belittle fanfic because it uses pre-existing characters and tropes are idiots who basically ignore that classic literature did that as well, but saying that La Divina Commedia (or Paradise Lost or whatever) IS fanfic because of that is frankly very ignorant and I have not seen one post on Tumblr making this comparison without demeaning the DC in the process (or other works that dictated the history of literature that came after) in order to give fanfic more value. That makes no sense. That’s anachronistic. That shows a lot of ignorance.
And like, everybody is free to dislike it all they want, hell knows that I do to an extent, but let’s be intellectually honest about it, at least. Having learned SOME things about it (as in, I learned a lot and then removed it after finishing HS), I can easily say that fanfic and that work are not the same thing, for so many reasons. I can understand the kind of value that it has, which fanfic doesn’t, and the context that surrounds it and its history.
In turn, fanfic has values which classic works don’t have and is special in its own way because of that. One of those values is the lack of gatekeeping, anybody having the possibility of trying it and writing it in whatever language they feel like and in whatever regionalism/slang of that language and share it with a fandom and the freedom to express yourself however you want and to explore what the hell you want, even the darkest of themes (if we ignore fandom police trying to stop people from doing that, at least, but they are irrelevant, truly).
The moment people learn to praise fanfiction BECAUSE OF ITS OWN MERITS without dragging other works down in the proccess, without trying to make other works and in turn fanfic as well something that they are not, is the moment fanfiction truly wins.
Lemme put on my professor hat here
MOST CLASSICS ARE 100% FANFIC
Hamlet was a satire on an older play about Hamlet that was so bad history swallowed it up and literature thanked it,
The Merchant of Venice was heavily inspired by Marlow’s the Jew of Malta which was based on tropes that were popular at the time, the damsel who needs to be protected from her wicked father, who in the Jew of Malta was actually a very wicked character, and made worse by virtue of being Jewish so the anti semitic audience [although they wouldn’t have known that term] knew exactly who the villain was
Do you know how many people have rewritten the story of Faust that there are at least 4 seminal versions of it and people talk about it with pre and post redemption arcs
Tennyson’s “Idylls of the King” was based on Malory, and Malory’s was based on Chrettienne de Troyes and he was based on Geoffrey of Monmouth who based his stories on popular folklore and ballads
Even putting aside the idea that Milton’s Paradise Lost was written by his daughters [young women being the most common fanficcers] he based his story on the existing narrative of Lucifer’s fall, and everyone forgets the rather less successful sequel.
Dante’s story was a self insert where he went through the medieval image of Hell heavily relying on Virgil’s narrative to the point where he put Virgil in it!
If those came out now we’d call them derivative or fanfic
I can do that for just about every classic going, because you know what the big difference is between non-fanfic and fanfic now
non-fanfic gets paid
but that is the point: the concept of fanfiction has always existed, true, but the phenomenon of fanfiction is linked deeply with the coming of mass culture, internet culture, and the concept of copyright.
Before XX century, the was no copyright: an author was good not because of how original it’s idea was, but how they were able to used that thrope somebody else used at some point.
Let’s talk about Dante, to stay on the matter: the thrope of the descent to hell and the conversation between the hero and the dead souls existed since the Sumerians, the first time it appeared is in the Epopee of Gilgamesh, and appears again in Homer’s Odyssey. The same thrope is used in different ways though: Gilgamesh descends to hell seeking a way to become immortal, because death terrifies him; Odysseus descends in hell to know how and when he will be able to go home. aother example: in Virgil’s Aenid, Aeneas descends to hell because he wants to see his father and to understands what it’s the purpouse of his journey.
Same thrope, different uses. Now let’s look at Dante: his descent to hell is only the start of a long journey, in which he has to travel through Hell, Purgatory and Paradise to amend his soul and give a good example to humanity in the troublesome time of the Europe of the XIV century.
He descends in Hell, shows to the reader the consequences of a life full of sins and depravities, seeks political and theological redemption in Purgatory, and he’s finally allowed to contemplated the light of God in Paradise and reach full happiness. All the while creating a language that is still used today, a way to write poetry that only he could use since it was so difficult, and creating a work, La Divina Commedia, that is practically an encyclopedia of Medieval knowledge why people like to ignore these i don’t know, not talikg about you specifically btw but there was along battle between Italians and the rest of tumlr about the cultural value of the Divine Comedy, that is way is a touchy subject.
Four different approches to the same thrope, all of them could be described as fanfiction of the Epopee of Gilgamesh, but here’s the trick: they are not, because they were not written after the creation of copyright and of the internet.
Fanfiction is deeply linked to the conteporary times, because with the coming of the phenomenon of mass culture and internet culture, everyone was potencially able to do anything: TODAY, everyone can write and draw, and receive a confrontation indipendently how good they are; IN THE OLD TIMES, not everyone could write or draw, because education was accessible only to the richest and the clergy.
When the concept of copyright was created - XVII century - so was the concept of creating a specific type of media that was really close to be a violation of the new regulations regarding narrative. But these stories were not fanfictions, not yet: we have to wait the coming of internet, the consequently dissapearences of the monetary costs and difficulties to learn to write and draw, to have fanfictions and fan-art as we know them today.
Fanfictions are a direct product of mass culture and internet; without mass culture and the internet, there aren’t fanfictions.
That is why everything that was created before the XX century can’t be classified as fanfiction, it’s not a matter of being paid or not.
No, it’s not
the difference is that people are now educated to the point where they can create this work and have it in a medium that promotes shle because aring
until very recently in history the concept of writing for pleasure was unthinkable due to lack of materials and skill, but people still told those stories, they passed them on through oral histories
for the first time the traditional stories that were passed, Robin Hood, King Arthur, King Horn, Bevis of Hampton, the local stories etc, including the local ghost and monster stories, have been replaced by stories that were written not recited because people can read and write, but those stories existed for hundreds of years, in varying forms because they WERE told
I gave the example of how King Arthur’s story evolved in print, but those are not the only versions of the story, the brother’s Grimm collected folktales and sanitised them so those stories, which before had been mostly localised, became part of the collective
what fanfiction does is replace the local stories, the “collective” into stories that we are presented by media that did not exist previously
but people were recreating those stories, Chrettiene de Troyes added a gary stu to make the story appeal more to the French and he became part of our collective knowledge of King Arthur, but we might not know his variation of the story, but we do know about First Knight, or King Arthur, etc. We know the story, so how is retelling it, not fanfiction, because fanfiction is transformative - de Troyes added lancelot and a love triangle and changed the villain - is that not transformative
Dante’s version of Hell was a transforming of popular medieval catechism, not the bible, and why did he do it, to get revenge on people that he didn’t like by giving them horrible fates in Hell.
the difference is that people are WRITING these stories down, they have always told them, and the small percentage of people in history who could write did this - why because it was easier to sell a book of stories about King Arthur than someone no one had heard of.
You say it exists only as mass culture but that shows a massive misunderstanding of what fanfiction is, fanfiction is a way of taking an existing work and making it your own, you do not need to be part of the huge mass of fandom to do this, the page of prose written by a six year old about Bob the Builder has no less worth than that 2m epic about Smash Bros.
Dante sat down to write himself going on an amazing journey through a world other people had created getting to meet his favourite authors and pillory people he despised - that’s self insert fanfiction 101
Milton took the story of someone he wanted to understand from an existing work and told it from their point of view.
Fandom doesn’t have to be about shipping, but de Troyes added a gary stu and gave him the fascination of all the ladies in the story and created the love triangle in fiction as we know it
Marlowe wrote out Dr Faustus, who inspired Gonoud’s opera which later inspired Goethe, each of them transforming the story for the audience and that’s only three variants of that form.
what I’m taking form this is you have no understanding of what transformative fanfiction is, and you’re determined to undermine what is done, whilst not understanding that these books were simply fanfiction that existed because those people could write, I’m pretty sure the other storytellers, the bards and the balladeers would have written them down if they could, but they transformed those existing stories.
And fanfic was around LONG before the Internet. Hell, it was around long before anybody even remotely conceived of DARPA.
Just ask the Sherlock Holmes fandom; they’ve been at it for more than a century.
@postmodernmulticoloredcloak
*Dante gasps, a little tear scrolls down his face* I’m so happy you appreciated my afterlife!historical figures AU so much
*nudges his friends* Guido, Lapo, they liked it a lot, look, they’re even writing meta about my interpretations of the characters and the themes I’ve explored
*smirks* stick it Boniface VIII you dickhead
I made memes, feel free to reblog.....
on a totally unrelated discourse note: i've been coming across more of these on ao3 at a worrying rate. ppl are posting works with nothing but a request to help the poster find a specific fic. disclaimer: even tho i was a tag wrangler for a while, that doesn't mean i speak for all tag wranglers. That said, those 'fics' drive me up the wall. i'll sometimes politely comment to kindly remind the poster that ao3 is an archive for transformative works and if they would like to engage with the fandom, they have plenty of other avenues-like tumblr-to make the same request. posting this sort request as a fic, unnecessarily adds to tag wranglers workloads who are already struggling to keep up with the sheer volume of work being posted. i'm not smart enough to explain why this is problematic beyond saying it's work and time and volunteers have enough on their plate. so even if it is only one fic with a few tags, more and more ppl doing it: they build up. basically, i think it's inconsiderate behaviour-to other readers searching the tags and to the wranglers who have to sort them. if you're looking for a fic and want to ask people: please do not post a work on ao3 tagging all your relevant ships, characters etc, to try and find it. please try to search through the extensive, functional and innovative tagging system and search function. there's tutorials on how to do it. try googling. try researching. and if you absolutely cannot find it: please go on fandom socials like tumblr etc to ask the community. ao3 is not built for this kind of interaction yet. i might be wrong and i trust you to correct me if i am.
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RAGESCREAM
Yeah, I see more of them these days too... though they do get reported pretty fast. I don't think the rate is so high that it really endangers most people's AO3 browsing experience, and ficsearches often use already-wrangled tags, but I do want to finish my personal 2021 AO3 Guide with some power user stuff but also more pointed tips for n00bs from Wattpad.
Some people when confronted are like "Oh shit. I knew it wasn't preferred, but I didn't know it was directly against the rules" and I think they're operating in the paradigm of sites with shitty search still. Like... on Wattpad, there's no index of everything, so you're not as in people's faces with your off topic spam crap. It's also more common to post "discussion books" and to take shit down quickly after it has served its purpose.
I guess what I'm saying is that I would not assume malice. Some people may just need some pointers and context. And while official FAQs and the ToS exist, I don't think that's the format most people absorb the info from best--not to mention the fact that official rules do ban fic searches as works (in that they are not fanworks), but official policy is "tag how you want" without many tips for what your options are.
As for why fic searches are rude to post, AO3 is not a big corporate site with a bajillion paid staff. It has a narrow and specific mission and is paid for by your fellow fandom members out of their own pockets. Posting cruft that is not the target content of fanworks potentially drains resources from your fellow fans due to limited staff time for tag wrangling, for looking at abuse reports on rule-breaking works, etc. It's also rude because AO3's 'show everything in this tag by date' format means your non-fanwork is shoved under everyone's eyeballs constantly. You're being way more intrusive than on sites where things are harder to find and already more ephemeral.
Like, is the gist "Real life pedophilia/incest/rape is bad, and stories saying these things are good are bad, but including these topics in a story isn't inherently bad, so the people being like 'hey, maybe Ao3 shouldn't have so much kiddie porn there's an entire category called "Underage"' are just overreacting and making things worse?" Because it feels like you're saying, "your negative reaction to this stuff is valid, but also you're annoying and prudish and bad and really you aren't valid."
So here’s the thing: it really does not sound like you're asking this question because you want my answer, it sounds like you want to be angry with me and have a fight. And fair enough! I'm not terribly interested in a fight, but apparently this is my day to dive into this topic as thoughtfully and honestly as I can be. Maybe I'll say something you haven't already heard from other people before. Maybe not! Only you, anonymous asker, know that.
To begin with, you got part of the gist right. Real life rape (including child abuse/child sexual abuse as well as incest) is bad. Stories about rape, about underage sex, and about incest, are stories.
They're stories. They're pixels on a screen. They're not real. Whether they claim that rape is good, or bad, or sexy, or melodramatic, or life-destroying, or a normal Tuesday afternoon. They're stories.
And having a negative reaction to them is valid. Stories can stir up powerful emotions in people. It is absolutely, 100%, fair and valid and even normal for there to be certain tropes, plot elements, events, and kinds of content that make you upset and that you never want to see in a story you read, ever. You don't have to want to read about sex. You don't have to want to read any of it. That doesn't make you bad.
There are tropes, plot elements, events, and kinds of content that upset me. There are stories I won't read. The same is true of literally everyone else I know. Even though I know the stories aren't real. Even though I know the things happening in them are happening to fictional characters, who do not exist, who I cannot protect and who also cannot be harmed because they're not real. Even then, I can be made sad and scared and upset and hurt by reading those stories. And that is okay and that is valid and I am not bad or wrong for being upset about the story I've read, and neither are you.
But that doesn't mean the story doesn't have value to somebody else. That doesn't mean the story isn't important to somebody else.
What I see most often coming from antis, possibly even including yourself, is an overwhelming desire to protect. They want to keep themselves and others--possibly people they know, possibly hypothetical people they may never meet--safe from being hurt by these stories. And that desire to protect, also, is normal. It's even admirable! The problem, though, the thing that does more harm than good, is when that desire to protect drives people to lash out against things that matter to other people.
There is a difference between actual rape and stories about rape. There is a difference between a story that could theoretically hurt somebody, someday (which is all stories, always), and a story that hurts you personally. And there is a difference between a story that hurts you personally, and a story that is inherently poisonous to everyone who touches it.
We know--absolutely, scientifically, incontrovertibly--that stories about rape do not make people rapists. Yes, even the stories where the rape is there to be sexy. Even stories where the person being raped is a child. Even then. Fiction is not the same thing as normalization; again, there are far smarter people who have written far more extensively on that topic than I, and next time I come across something that goes more into detail on this point I promise I will reblog it. If this really is the thing you're afraid of, I may not be the right person to convince you that this is an unfounded fear, but I know someone out there can elaborate on it.
(Unfounded, which is not the same thing as invalid. My mother's claustrophobia is unfounded; it flares up in many situations where there's no physical threat whatsoever, where she has plenty of space to move and air to breathe. It's still real. It still chokes her. It's still valid, she is not bad or broken to feel that way, and she still can't drive through certain tunnels. The fear is real. But the thing she's afraid of can't physically hurt her, and that is worth knowing in terms of how she deals with it.)
We know, absolutely, scientifically, and incontrovertibly, that stories about rape and many, many, many other things can hurt and even traumatize their readers. Even though the situation you're reacting to is not real and you receive no physical injury, you can still be hurt by it. The key word there, though, is readers. The fact that the horror genre is out there terrifying people who enjoy being terrified for fun does not damage me unless I do something stupid and try listening to the Magnus Archives again and end up tense and miserable and paranoid for the rest of the week. The fact that guacamole is apparently delicious to everybody else in the world does not hurt me unless I do something stupid and order the wrong thing at a restaurant, and end up itchy and miserable with a little trouble breathing for the rest of the night.
The fact that there are, yes, tens of thousands of fics on AO3 in which characters under the age of 18 have sex? It can't hurt you. Those fics do not hurt you by existing. They can only hurt you if you read them. They can only hurt anyone who reads them. That's why there is an 'Underage' tag--and it's worth noting, 'Underage' is a warning, not a category. Nobody wants you to get hurt reading the wrong fic, any more than the sushi chef wants my throat to swell up because I ordered something with avocado. Literally nobody wants that.
The flip side, of course, is that you hating each and every one of those fics individually and as a group doesn't actually hurt me, or anyone else who writes, reads, or enjoys them. By itself. You can hate anything you like, and fic writers can write anything they like, and it all comes out in the end, more or less. Except.
Except that reading fic is always, entirely, 100% opt-in, and online harassment isn't even opt-out. Some antis have a nasty habit of going after writers whose content they don't like; climbing into inboxes and comments sections, calling those writers nasty names, throwing around cruelties and aggression and insults. I know that's not the same thing as simply disliking a genre, or even passively disagreeing with its existence (although disliking a genre and disagreeing with its right to exist are also very different things). I know not all antis do that. I don't know you, anon, but based on the speed and aggressiveness of this response to my last post, I can't help but wonder if you would do that.
And that does hurt people. Just like it might hurt you if someone threw a bunch of content that makes you uncomfortable into your inbox. Including the harasser, actually--because getting into fights with strangers on the internet about things that make you angry, sad, defensive, and upset isn't good for anybody. Including both you and me.
Anyway, after yet another lengthy ramble, let's get the tl;dr response to your ask here: nobody is ever bad or wrong for disliking certain content in their stories, no matter what that content is. You and your emotions are valid. The "overreacting and making things worse" part isn't about what you feel, but what you do with it. Constantly engaging with places where the thing that upsets you will probably show up, even to argue and try to fight it, will make things worse in the sense that now you're spending way more time thinking about this thing that makes you upset and angry, thereby leaving you more upset and angry. Getting together with a bunch of your upset, angry friends to make your feelings everybody else's problem? Makes fandom a more toxic place for everyone else involved.
Don't read stuff that's going to hurt you. Don't make other people read stuff that's going to hurt them. That's the whole thing, really.
Things that are a fanfic writer’s responsibility:
The category for relationships (Gen, F/F, M/F, M/M, a combination, something else)
The right category for ratings (is it for General Audiences, Teenagers, Mature, Explicit, R-Rated, Nc-17?)
The relevant warnings (violence, rape, underage sex, anything else you deem relevant)
The relevant tags on it (what relationships are covered in the fic? What characters? Is it light and fluffy fic? Funny? Sad? Dark? Does it have sex, and if so, what kind? Is there violence? Tags are used by readers to find fic and to avoid fic)
A summary that informs the reader of what kind of fic they’re gonna read.
Author’s notes for everything else. You can use the summary or author notes to explain certain tags, or add caveats, or thank your beta’s.
Things that are not a fanfic writer’s responsibility:
Kids stumbling across your fic and reading your fic and assuming that whatever is written about in the fic is 100% cool and normal.
The mental health of people who don’t like the subject matter of your fic.
I got 99 problems and being responsible for your competent use of the internet ain’t one.
Or, if you feel that’s more suited for the experience: user CHOSE NOT TO USE ARCHIVE WARNINGS. In which case, even more strongly than normal, READER BEWARE.
i agree with most of this but “creator chose not to use content warnings” is a bullshit tag that shouldn’t exist. it isn’t an actual warning, it doesn’t mean anything except maybe “this author wants to be ~edgy~,” and there’s no good reason for its presence on ao3.
seriously, i cannot think of a single situation in which “creator chose not to use archive warnings” is appropriate to use except maybe, maybe if your piece has content that could be a common trigger but isn’t available as an archive warning (e.g. incest), but even then it still feels like a cop-out and you absolutely have to make sure that content is still tagged for in your main tags
CNTUAW is perfectly fine, since it says: “I’m opting out of the warning system and you’ll have to decide for yourself if you’re willing to read my fic and whatever might be in there”. That is a valid choice for an author, and it’s just as valid for a reader to say: “What? Nope, not gonna read this.” Nobody forces anybody to read a fic that has a CNTUAW tag. The only reason I can think of why people think this warning is invalid is because they assume that they somehow are entitled to every story they see, that somehow the authors owe them their fics. Which is ridiculous nonsense. People like the above are why I by now refuse to use Archive Warnings and exclusively tagg ALL my fics “Author chose not to use Archive Warnings”. It’s so that people who feel entitled to my fic will not want to read it :) (I still get enough engagement on my fics. Boo fucking hoo ;)
Idk how to answer someone’s question when they block me but… well.
They don’t seem to understand that “I’m opting out of the warning system” is a PART OF THE WARNING SYSTEM on Ao3 and even the DEFAULT Archive Warning according to their TOS FAQ.
To suggest I don’t post to Ao3 because I like using their default warning is…more than a little bizarre xD Again, it all boils down to “ONLY THE WAY I DO FANDOM IS RIGHT!” - while Ao3 instead explicitly offers authors several different ways of doing fandom/posting their fics, which aren’t inferior to each other. JUST DIFFERENT.
But then, far too many people don’t understand that “different” doesn’t mean “bad”, and even when the site specifically tells its users “We offer you different ways of doing this”, apparently some people think that those who actually take advantage of that offer should…leave? *lol* Also, I threw a fit after people told me how authors were “exclusionary” and “dicks” etc. etc. for using CNTUAW as if they were owed to be able to read every fucking fic. Which they are not. (Yet another fact this person doesn’t get.)
In short:
Every time I see wank about the “Choose Not to Warn” option on AO3 I remember how controversial the idea of MANDATORY WARNINGS was when the archive was created. This was 2008-9! No one in the wider world had heard of trigger warnings! They WEREN’T A THING!!! No where! Fandom was the place where the concept of trigger warnings caught on and a big part of that was because of AO3′s inclusion of tags and warnings.
So there was so much debate over WHAT kind of content requires MANDATORY warnings? And why? This wasn’t how fic worked before AO3. Yeah, many authors would warn for things like non-con or graphic violence but it was still very voluntary and up to each individual.
Many authors at the time HATED the idea of including warnings or being forced to warn because they felt that putting a warning for things or a tag at all would ruin the suspense and surprise reveal of their plot. And this wasn’t a fringe concern!
That’s why there’s an opt-out option! Because a community is about compromise and balancing the needs of authors and readers and people with very different feelings about how fiction should work. So having mandatory requirements to warn for certain things AND an option that lets people opt-out of this requirement while still warning readers that these are DANGEROUS AND UNCHARTED WATERS is a fucking compromise.
I know a lot of younger people seem to have never heard of compromise because they’ve been raised by the extremes of online discourse and Fox News but when you’re literally building community infrastructure it’s the name of the game.
It kills me that kids somehow think AO3 was made without considering these issues, that previous fandom generations haven’t already hashed out these fights. That the extreme growth and popularity of AO3 isn’t inherent proof that the system that was put in place after MUCH discussion and consideration WORKS.