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@ohgodnopleasenonono
Do not use my posts to be transmisogynistic. Trans women are my sisters and we as trans men need to be in community with them. Transmisogyny and transandrophobia both exist and we do not need to tear each other down in the name of either
"Trans men AREN'T oppressed! They're *men*, they are embraced by society because masculinity is rewarded!"
đElliot Page Editionđ
CW TRANSPHOBIA:
Brought to you by the Facebook comments on ANY article regarding Elliot Page.
The fact that Elliot Page is an example of someone who would stand to gain the most if that ideology was correct. He's a white, able bodied, rich, conveniently attractive, famous man. Yet even he is only a laughing stock to these people.
There are many, many people whose only understanding of manhood is through defining it by its association with power.
Whether that be through a feminist lens regarding manhood or masculinity only through the analysis of cis patriarchal hierarchy, and/or an uncritical repetition of gendered norms produced by such a system.
So what ends up happening when a transgender man explains he is disempowered, and disempowered specifically in relationship to being a man and how the ideas (just like this) attached to it effect him, the only conclusion they can come to is that he must be implying he isn't a man, that he is misgendering himself or undermining his identity, or that he is weak and failing to live up to it- or that he is lying.
The complicated marginalization of trans manhood as manhood is so radically contradictory to the patriarchal values of power which men are expected to fulfill, and so contradictory to the intensely cis-normative approach to feminism and gendered oppression, that his experiences end up in a placeless void of compounded invalidation. Although coming from the very same place.
Enough that to even have acknowledgment for his experience of gendered oppression, his identity as a man must be severed from the very context of its existence. Just transgender, just a generic, unspecific transphobia. Denying the specific modality which produced the reality of his transgender existence. Cutting his social experience into pieces, either cutting out the manhood, or cutting out the weakness.
This continues on his invisibility, furthering the doubt of the validity of his own reality. Feeding into the inevitability that his struggle will go unnoticed and uncared for, and will not receive the attention needed to help him, or to change these things.
Ironically and integrally, all of this enabling his marginalization specifically because- well because he is a man.
Because of the expectations of what it means to be a man, and how we cannot imagine his experience of a specifically marginalized manhood.
trans girls are allowed to be annoying and stereotypical and socially inept and hyperactive and hypersexual and various types of animalgirl and there's nothing you can do about it. in fact if you're mean to that skirt go spinny reddit trans girl i'm stealing your entire house
I think I've made this post before but I truly believe that a lot of trans discourse would disappear if we acknowledged that transmisogyny and transandrophobia go hand in hand and aren't necessarily strict opposites.
And I firmly believe that both can affect all trans people due to the combination of transphobia, malgendering and misgendering that we experience.
Plus allowing both terms to be used freely regardless of which way your transitioning allows more freedom for the nuances of intersex, transneutral and nonbinary individuals without pushing them into a binary or forcing them to disclose the details of their agab/transition.
"I'd like to start a small project raising awareness of sexual assault, coercion, harassment, and other similar behaviors toward trans men and others TME (transmisogyny exempt) by people TMA (transmisogyny affected)."
Yeah so this is lolcowing and fucked up and if you do this stay away from me like this is just weird and of course their taking sourceless ass ask about trans woman at their word and shaming people for kinks
Fuck this and fuck you for running this kinda blog, and anyone who follows me and also this blog can unfollow me because if I see SHIT from a blog with that bullshit as its pinned you WILL be blocked
âtransmasc voices projectâ sounded like it could have been a great place for transmascs to just like. talk about their issues but THIS is what their purpose is?? Jesus, that fucking sucks. What possible intention could the original blog have except to demonise trans women.
Theyâre either a raging TERF or⌠actually, yeah thatâs it. Even if theyâre actually trans, thatâs still 100% disgusting TERF behaviour.
She literally left up a bunch of comments from an actual TERF being blatantly and violently transmisogynistic towards a trans woman, while deleting/hiding comments on the same post from users criticizing him.
So yeah- literal TERF is just actually what she is.
As I thought
Stay safe everyone ⥠Block and don't engage for you and the communities safety. Terfs have no place in the talk about trans rights
Who is this about?
@/ transmascvoicesproject
She basically started a blog to gather reports allegedly from transmascs and trans men who had been hurt in a sexual way by transfems and trans women. In reality she's just a TERF gathering dirt on transfeminine folks and trans women while pretending she has the support of transmasculine and trans male survivors.
In reality she wants all trans people dead or worse.
Let's cast trans women as especially dangerous and insidious sexual predators is literally TERF 101
Oh and also the assumption that trans male and transmasculine experiences are monolithic and limited to normative manhood and a desire to pass or already being cis passing is ultimately just an expression of an extremely reductionist perspective.
Transmasculinity and trans manhood is as diverse as transfemininity and trans womanhood.
You simply choose to reduce it to because it fits your already existing mentality that casts masculinity and manhood as the inherent oppressor.
Also if you think that way I'm pretty sure I can expect you to ALSO be reductive and exclusionist to any transfem person who doesn't fit your normative ideas... soooo.
I don't care for it: I stand with trans men and transmasculine people in all their vibrant diversity. I stand with the transmasc dykes, the trans male femboys, the transmasc-transfems, the transmasc girlfailures, the trans male bears and transmasc fags, I love my trans male brothers and my transmasc siblings.
Crazy how "I don't like the way I'm treated as a trans male" and "I'm not attacking trans femmes" can coexist
CRAZY right
btw i have seen some people using ''birthday girl'' to refer to transphobic trans women and i Do Not Like That. don't do that shit.
primarily because i think its fucking weird to have catty little insults for trans people we disagree with, even and perhaps especially when we disagree with them over actually harmful things they've done or rhetoric they contribute to. its unhelpful and adds fuel to the fire of emotion-first "my pain justifies being an asshole, if you want me to be kinder you just don't get my suffering" trans infighting, and no matter how good it feels i do not think it is right! it hurts all of us whether directly or indirectly because it contributes to a toxic culture, and it is genuinely poison to organizing socially and politically against patriarchy.
but also, on a practical level (which as a pragmatist i do not think is actually separate from the ethical level), its a bad fucking look! it is weird and shitty that people are so invested in coming up with catty little insults, or just adopting pre-existing slurs, to describe trans people they think are being transmisogynistic instead of just saying they are being transmisogynistic, and i think it is illustrative of the trends prevalent in the "transandrophobia isn't real" sphere that this is a thing people engage in and defend so much. if you agree with that point, you should understand that turning around and calling trans women "birthday girls" weakens that criticism! it makes it look hypocritical and easily written off!
when done right, taking the moral high ground should strengthen your arguments by making it so that people cannot argue you are being cruel or vindictive or bigoted when you make your point. it may be less satisfying but it is all around better for all of us. if you genuinely want there to be less cruelty from trans people towards trans people, you have to take some responsibility for the role you play in that. we all do! if The Discourse is really pissing you off, find ways to process that anger and frustration and pain that don't contribute to the very thing causing them in the first place.
#get peer reviewed#also for fuck's sake do NOT pull out any variation of feminazi.#i've seen it once or twice and if you pull that shit you are being a bigot#incredibly counterproductive and DEEPLY embarassing.#no I don't care what they said to you don't fucking do it.
get peer reviewed x2
never let your opponent dictate what the moral high road is, but that doesn't mean you stop giving a fuck about morality. taking a firm ethical stance on how you engage with other people, especially other oppressed people, will ALWAYS do a million times more for actual liberation than the cathartic mud-slinging ever will. you are hurting everyone when you pull this kind of bullshit.
I don't think cis men commit 90% of violent crimes because they are naturally more violent than cis women. I think cis men commit 90% of violent crimes because they are afforded more opportunity and leeway by society to do so.
I think there's an incredible correlation between insulating cis boys from the consequences of their actions and the prevalence of violent crime.
I think we teach cis boys from a young age that violence will be tolerated from them as long as they perform masculinity to society's standards.
That second part is the salient factor here. Because we also teach them that violence will not be tolerated from them if they defy society's standards of masculinity, even if it's self defense. If they're picked on for defying those standards, it's the violence against them that's validated.
I think cis boys who are performing masculinity to society's standards get in no real trouble for snapping their classmates' bra straps or pulling their hair or whatever else gets written off as "he likes you" & it sets them up for a life of violence.
It doesn't guarantee it. But it raises the probability that they will continue to express their desires via violence when they're adults.
if you remove the "trans" from "trans man" just to prove that trans men benefit from the patriarchy, you are being anti-intersectional. plain and simple.
you are not interested in learning about the lived experiences of actual trans men who are oppressed and struggling. you just want to talk over us and pretend that we dont exist. you dont care that we are being actively erased, even in death, and will not work with us to bring about change. because what? a trans man was rude to you once? or you hate yourself for being a trans man?
fucking grow up and grow out of your "ew men have cooties" bullshit.
ah yes because "a group of cis men who blame feminism for being single" = "trans men and transmascs talking about their struggle in a transphobic society that wants to detransition or even kill them" yep. sounds like the same thing.
the comments on this post are good too
Is that trans man talking over women on a âwomanâs issueâ or is it just something that objectively affects him. Is that a womanâs issue or is it just something that affects people who society sees as women (not the same thing). Is that trans man âweaponizing his AGABâ or have you just forgotten that roughly 50% of humans are born with characteristics that make them a target of societal misogyny regardless of their gender identity. Is that trans man âinvading womenâs spacesâ or have you arbitrarily excluded him from a space that should include him in the first place. Did that trans man actually do anything harmful or are you just annoyed and offended that he would say anything at all.
sick of people both-sidesing in this tag. the two sides are "wants a word to describe their experience" and "doesn't want those people to have a word to describe their experience" anything else ("transmisogyny vs transandrophobia" "transfems vs transmascs" "transmisogynistic people vs transandrophobic people" etc) is a wilful misinterpretation of events. "both sides are extreme-" no they are not. begone centrist.
ppl heard "trans men are men" and took it as "trans masculinity is the exact same as cis masculinity" instead of "trans masculinity is just as valid as cis masculinity" and that set the trans community back like 50 years
"Are men oppressed for being men?"
The answer is, of course, yes. This has been the settled feminist position since at least the 90s, something I was aware of as part of the minimum acceptable bar for feminism as a 13 year old.
It's not even a complicated idea - the patriarchy demands certain things from men as part of the structure that sustains itself. Men have social expectations of manliness and violating those norms can result in severe social consequences. This is part of the definition of toxic masculinity.
(It's also one of the reasons trans women are hated in the particular way we are - much of society sees us as an extreme case of "failed men".)
There is a reason we say feminism is for everyone, including men. Because men are oppressed as well by the patriarchy and would
The only reason we even slightly entertain this question on this website is because it's become a transphobic dog whistle to justify transphobia against trans men and trans mascs, in particular in the form of denying the existence of transphobia specific to trans men and trans mascs, aka transandrophobia. "I'm not transphobic, I just don't think men are oppressed." is incredibly transparent, but still has been repeated often enough with minimal push back that others are just accepting it as true.
Which of course ironically proves that transandrophobia is real. What else can we call it except targeted, and therefore specific, when people gleefully abandon well established feminist principles in order to further an agenda of discrimination against a specific minority?
do you think people are self-aware that the overblown fear and demonisation of men as an entire class of people is the reason that TERFs are thriving
additionally i don't think a lot of people realise they're radfems cos radfem and TERF have been conflated (and 'radfem' has also been poisoned as a term when it means any type of radical feminism, including anarchafeminism, but i digress), but if you 'hate' men or think men are inherently evil or inherently predisposed to being harmful from birth with zero social conditioning... you are a radfem. if you fear men to such an extreme extent that you think you need to be specially protected from them and have safe spaces where they cannot enter at any cost or that their very presence is a threat, you are a radfem.
you don't need to hate trans women or to be cis or to be a woman if you believe men are evil you and eradicating that evil is the solution for feminism then you are a radfem. TERFism thrives cos of casual radfeminism, the casual hatred of men and masculinity gave the TERF movement more power and allowed it to be so prominent. it's always been here, but it's been worse since the (largely liberal) adoption of 'men bad' in feminist spaces. casual radfeminism allows TERFs to get their claws into non-exclusionary radfems far easier and allowing it to get unchecked allows TERFism into your spaces in general far easier
and i think the proportion of trans women who also repeat men bad rhetoric need to remember that no amount of transitioning will make you exempt from that men bad rhetoric to the right group. you continuing to perpetuate it is continuing to perpetuate your own oppression. and trans men who do the same thing are, in fact, doing the same thing.
