Okay, okay, random question while it's in my head and I'm formulating something. I know you like evil lesbians but just as an analysis thing: how do you feel about post-canon Liliana x Egbert and also the (Portal Combat episode) Otherberts in general?
Oh you have no idea the rant you've just unlocked - I'd apologise but I'm far too excited about this :DD
I think that they would make an absolutely fantastic pairing, either romantically or otherwise. Not just chemistry wise , but I think that it could be a surprisingly healthy and helpful relationship for the both of them!!
But to put it the long way:
1a. I like my narrative parallels - Atonement
Egbert’s motivation for adventuring is that he is looking for atonement, and by the end of the campaign he has achieved that. Liliana, well, lets just say that she has done a lot of things that she needs to make up for
At least in my interpretation of her, I feel like a post-cannon Liliana has realised that what she spent her life doing was wrong because it got a lot of folks hurt. Egbert’s guilt comes from the fact that he hurt people trying to do the wrong thing, whilst hers would be more that she hurt people because she didn’t care what happened to them if they were in her way
They both do achieve that atonement in the campaign. Egbert is allowed to re-join the order because of his hand in restoring gold dragons, and Liliana is very explicitly forgiven by the entirety of Geth thanks to They in Prism Escape
I feel like whatever kind of relationship they would end up building would be built on that mutual need to be forgiven by others, and to forgive themselves
1b. Other interesting similarities and opposites:
Not that it means a lot in a DnD world, but they have both had people who want to kill them specifically! Lils in general thanks to the various evils she liked to do (see the guards in Frenemy at the Gate), and prior to LoD it seems like Egbert had a kill on sight policy when in the citadel’s grounds. So… fun bonding experience for all?
Egbert uses self-depricating humour as a coping mechanism a lot, which isn’t really surprising given the jokes other people make about him. The example that comes to mind is about the clones, telling Liliana “well maybe if you’d gotten to know me a bit better first you’d have realised what a bad idea that was” in using him as the blueprint. She on the other hand bigs herself up (which I think is putting up a front, but that’s maybe more of a headcannon) to cope, re. I refuse to believe “I’ve never had to work for anything in my life” is true coming from the woman who spent 2 centuries translating a book. I think Egbert would struggle deciphering her humour at first (the “haha, yeah, very drol” from when he tried to eat one of every canape, I forget which episode, speaks to me in a very neurotypical way, I promise) but he would get there, maybe end up having an easier time understanding it in the end from specifically studying it
They both are/have experienced loneliness. Egbert says that he was a lonely child who spent a lot of time exploring under Mistmire, he had his entire support network dismantled when he was thrown out of the order, and you know, the guild’s treatment of him at times can’t have helped that. Headcannons again here a bit, but Liliana never mentioned anybody else. She’s collaborated with various people, but between evil bases it doesn’t seem to be the same folks. When she moves into Necropolis as far as we know she moves in solo (barring the Otherberts, but I’ll get to them in a mo) and, well, hundreds of years is a long time to be alone
2. Why they would be good for each other:
Egbert is the kindest person in the guild, no question about it. Corazon’s attitude a lot of the time, plus what he doomed his old crew to only to procrastinate saving them, Dob’s refusal to think through the consequences of his actions and what I’m calling his only child syndrome (Yes, he has Suzette. But she raised him more than grew up besides him so it still counts), Merilwen’s “no second chances” see the moonbeaming the surrendering Otherberts, and Prudence is Prudence. The worst thing Egbert ever did was done out of compassion, to help the last golden dragon despite all the indoctrination the order had put him through.
(We’re going to ignore the whole “repeatedly bashing an old man in the back with a mace until he turned into a seal” because he at least didn’t leave him to fend for himself, and he did end up preferring life as a seal)
Something tells me that Liliana would need somebody like that, somebody who would check in and make sure she was alright, not because she’s helping them save the world, but because she is frightened and he is not
I just know that they would help each other to heal, make them both a lot better
Egbert would show her that it is possible to redeem yourself even after doing terrible things, and Lils would teach him how to stand up for himself when he needs to
3a. The relationship starting:
I think it would take a fair amount of work to get a proper friendship going between them, despite how well it would work out in the end
Out of the whole guild, Egbert definitely dealt with the most at Liliana’s hands. He was the only one of them with permanent (or at least very long-term) consequences as a result of Spell Check since he lost his kidney. Then he was kidnapped by her, which is traumatic in and of itself, not to mention that he was found in the tower suspended in a tank with a bunch of wires attached, clearly being experimented on. And, you know, the minor fact of being made on numerous occasions to murder large groups of people that look exactly like him? And that could be considered his children? Poor guy needs a hug...
But Egbert doesn’t hold grudges. From being kicked out of his order, he knows what it is like to have your past actions held against you, so he always seems to forgive instantly. I’d argue that this is frequently to his own detriment, never questioning how his friends mock him, and never getting apologies. I might be forgetting something here, but the only time I can think of with anybody apologising for poking fun would be Merilwen when she was recruiting Rowan, but he heard neither the insult or the apology, so that doesn’t really count. That’s a whole tangent that’s not relevant, but what I’m getting at is that if he was capable of holding any sort of bitterness, he would have left the guild a long time ago
Liliana on the other hand? She’s been spending a hell of a lot of time and resources trying to murder five specific idiots for years because they flooded her laboratory with magic sandwiches. Which I think qualifies as grudge holding
All of which is to say, I don’t think Egbert would hold the past against her (unlike everybody else), and maybe given time, she could learn a thing or two about forgiving others from him
Despite this, it would probably still take some time for them to connect, but that’s not from Egbert holding any reservations, more like Liliana and her lovely self esteem problems. Once they saw that Corazon was okay, in an everybody-lives AU, I think he’d be first to her side, first to try and reconcile, first to achieve that, the first to understand her motivations and the one stopping the rest of them from murdering her
“The worst thing I ever did was for a good reason, every other thing we’ve done that ended with my friends and I being run out of a town had good intentions behind it, so tell me why you did that so we can help you”. Not in so many words, but that kind of thing?
I think that they would have a really fun dynamic as friends (or otherwise) post cannon. It's very much a sunshine and moonlight type vibe, with Egbert being Egbert and Liliana a ball of angst given mortal form, but I think he would bring her out of her shell and she'd teach him to take less shit
I've now got the mental image that I'm very tempted to write of the guild and Lils post quest cleaning up the mansion, she works herself into somewhat of a mental breakdown when Egbert finds her. She's all "I'm a terrible person I don't deserve any of this kindness" and he's like "Yes you do. You made mistakes but you're a person" then "What do you mean, I tried to have you murdered??? I stole your kidney???" "Yeah, you gave it back!" "Only because the world was about to end!" "Okay, everyone needs pushing a different amount to get there" "Wha- I literally made you murder clones of yourself? Many times?" "Yeah, who hasn't wanted to punch themselves in the face at times!" "...." "Back to washing up? I'll steam up the whole room if I try, so you wash and I'll dry?" "... okay"
Do I think the guild are a bit dickish about him making friends with her immediately again? Of course they are! Of course they don't trust his judgement! But they get proven wrong and that's all that matters (And maybe threatened a little bit into being nicer - she chucked them out of a balloon once, I think she can still intimidate the guild a lot <3)
Also, Egbert's the only one who can take Liliana's teasing/jabs at the start and I think that's wonderful. She probably takes a long while before being comfortable being sappy or sincere with anybody, so having one of the guild who doesn't get tetchy when she jabs at them means a lot to her and goes a long way in opening her up
And Liliana is a scholar - I think she would actually be interested in La Vache Mauve once she realises that she is real and not a figment of Egbert's loneliness and that would mean the damn world to him
Liliana created the otherberts, so she actually understands what Egbert is like as a dragonborn (to an extent at least) - aka she would finally be someone who wouldn't carry on with the invasive dragonborn anatomy questions
They're both the only ones who seem to see the otherberts as people? Liliana made them, and even if she does treat them a bit eh by sending them to wars constantly and the like, that's her general personality.Egbert is obviously compassionate for them. The others? Again, Merilwen and the moonbeam of the retreating ones, Dob and Bonsely (I'm still mad about the disrespect there tbh) etc
It’s a really silly thing to latch onto, but in Season Finale, the Otherbert reading the shipping log to Lils as she trances for her first night in Necropolis on Sea is really important to me <3
In terms of Portal Combat specifically? I keep forgetting they were in that fight, I'm not going to lie (the ending distracted me, okay? Haha)
But they were really helpful (or at least attempted to be for the ones that kept missing) which I do love because the whole campaign they were somewhat incompetent in the "well maybe if you'd got to know me a bit better first" only for them then to be really important in crowd control in the final encounter so that the action economy doesn't hinder the group is brilliant
But they disappear (As does every other NPC) once Liliana stands up to kill Merilwen. And I know that this was to not crowd the scene - the moment was one for the characters to shine and a good one at that, I wouldn’t have it any other way, but it does make me wonder what they all were doing when that happened
Personal headcannon? I think the Dob shouted everybody away to safety once he realised what Liliana was doing (going for the kill). Why Dob specifically? ... Suzette angst, that’s actually the only reason, I needed her to be elsewhere during that scene for AWMST. But to try and retroactively justify it, Corazon realised but was busy jumping in front of Merilwen and the others were probably distracted
But the Otherberts? I like to imagine that since Liliana is changed by her adventure, she tells them her plan and tells them to flee and start a new life by themselves, without her name to drag them down, because yay for redemption!
(Either that or you know... they are paladins... if Merilwen hadn't had reincarnation prepared and Egbert also forgot he was a paladin.... they would have had revivify.... But that depends on how you want to interpret her final stand)
So yeah, in summary, Liliana are very "opposite sides of the exact same coin" for me, and I think a friendship between them would do them both the world of healing <3
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