ngl if you're gonna villainize the canon love interest to prop up your ship, I don't think you have anything valuable to say I fear.
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ngl if you're gonna villainize the canon love interest to prop up your ship, I don't think you have anything valuable to say I fear.
Actually I WILL talk about Mai's seeming 'radicalisation'. With the upcoming comic, I can see why a lot of people are confused/caught offguard by Mai suddenly having a vested interest in reforming the Fire Nation's school curriculum.
However, I don't think it's as much of a heelturn as one would believe at first glance.
Mai is a difficult character to pinpoint on some levels, particularly due to her upbringing which stripped her of a lot of her self expression. I think most of the fandom underestimates the trauma and effect of Mai's upbringing. I elaborate on it here.
However, the long and short of it is that Mai was not encouraged to question, criticise or, god forbid, rebel against her enviornment. To the point where her parents scared her with stories of spirits that would kidnap her if she misbehaved.
Ukano's involvement in politics and relatively high status should also be taken into account. Mai would have grown up being strongly encouraged to conform to her father's beliefs and go along with his politics.
Mai : My mother said I had to keep out of trouble. We had my dad's political career to think about.
We've seen the propaganda and indoctrination of the Fire Nation school system, how it uses misinformation in its curriculum and how it punishes deviance.
Most fire nation children won't have the tools to find the cruelty and danger in the philosophy of the Fire Nation. Zuko had to get banished from the country to even start his deconstruction. And he had Iroh at his side to guide him.
It's not shocking that Mai would not be able to see the flaws of the Fire Nation. Despite this, she still shows no attachment to the Nation's cause, either. In fact, she actively refused to take part in the war effort when she thought she could get away with it.
I don't think Mai had much sympathy to the other nations, nor will I claim she secretly harboured anti imperialistic sentiment. I simply want to state the fact that Mai was, from a young age, forced to do things she didn't want to do and conditioned by multiple parties, to accept this. Mai has been trained to be passive, with only the method of passive aggressiveness and gloominess to defend herself.
I think after the fall of Ozai's rule and the slow restructuring of the Nation, Mai got more freedom in her life. Ukano's political role diminished, so Mai was allowed to think for herself. She gets to discover the world more and develop her own thoughts and ideals, rather than the ones she'd been forced to conform to.
This line in the upcoming comic seems to confirm my thoughts:
Mai's upbringing is the underground and darkness. She was never given an alternative or agency in her life. And thanks to Zuko, she was able to see and experience a different world than the one she was brought up with. She is able to help to try and achieve it.
Initially, Mai is angry at Zuko's joining of team Avatar. She feels betrayed and upset that he did not talk to her in person, even if it was to protect her. And yet, she saves him. While I believe that most of her motivation was genuinely out of love for Zuko. But she also, ekther inadvertently or deliberately made the choice between Azula and Zuko. Between the two potential duture leaders of the Nation.
And she chose Zuko. Who is not only the boy she loves, but also the boy who can heal her nation.
There is an argument to be made about how Mai represents the Fire Nation itself and its relationship to Zuko, but that is a topic for another day.
The theme of Mai caring for the future of the Fire Nation can be seen expanding in the comics. As 99% of the fandom will tell you, the comics have their flaws, but I do enjoy their handling of Mai for the most part.
I think it's interesting that we are shown that Mai not only wants Zuko to be Fire Lord, but for him to be a good Fire Lord.
We see her dissapointed in Zuko secretly meeting with Ozai. At first glance, what she says to Zuko is that she is dissapointed in him keeping secrets from her, which is understandable, since the last time he kept a secret from her led to him joining the opposite side of a war.
However, with her next appearance, we see that Mai may have had another concern relating to Zuko's communing with Ozai. When Ty Lee informs her of Zuko also enlisting Azula's help, Mai exclaims 'so he really is turning into his father', which seems to denote that Mai has a distaste for Ozai and his rule, whether that be from the begining, or recently acquired.
Mai also criticises Zuko's callous and controlling restrictions over the frightened townspeople. This serves to further cement the idea of Mai becoming disillusioned with the similarly inclined authority figures of her past. Authority figures who were a symptom of the Fire Nation's utilitarian and imperialistic system. We see this disdain manifesting in its full force in the teasers for the upcoming comic.
I think people tend to not realise how restricted in her self expression and thoughts Mai was, despite all the puzzle pieces being laid out for us in the show.
Mai has gone through a very quick and yet realistic episode of character growth in my opinion. Not unlike a lot of people raised in heavily Conservative and restrictive households who peel off later in life, she's settling into her own mindset and motivations.
Ans I don't think it's an unrealistic idea for Mai to want to help change the education system. The Fire Academy for girls is where she met Azula, and as an all girl school alumni, I can tell you first hand how toxic and confining these enviornments can be.
While Mai may not be seen as a particularly empathetic or kind person (though I think this interpretation is flawed), she can sympathise with the young girls who will be placed in the shoes of her younger self.
She can want to not see these kids go through what she, Ty Lee AND Azula did.
[The panels of Mai glancing between the stifling interior of the school and the open window and choosing to go outside and lead the Nation's youth outside... ugh]
Not only is this a rather logical progression for Mai's character, in my opinion, but it also feels like a very big 'healing your inner child' moment for Mai. Since she was not really seemingly allowed to be a child, as most children in the Fire Nation appeared to have such restrictions placed on them.
I don't think it's much of a stretch of the imagination that Mai would want to have at least a small part in dismantling the system that harmed her and so many other children of the nation.
She is a young woman now, she has grown from the oversheltered, apathetic teen she was in the show. She has been able to make her own informed opinions about the state of the nation, has been able to hone her trauma into determination. And it seems we're going to see the fruits of this development in "Ashes of the Academy".
I have very high hopes for the upcoming comic, since what we've seen of it appears to make a compelling story, one I relate to deeply, as well as a good study of Mai, a character I find often misinterpreted by the fandom.
Lets be frank, this is the main reason why a certain part of the fandom dislikes Mai:
Mai rejecting zuko's pathetic self pitying goes against the sentimnet of the whole show so far. Truly a thought provoking view on zuko. No wonder she gets so much hate.
It genuinely boggles my mind how much the ferally diehard Zuko & Azula apologists will grasp at the most headcanon-leaning straws to justify every single bad action they did in the ATLA series or comics in the name of "nature vs nurture" but show no hesitation whatsoever in giving the most tone-deaf flack to Mai for both actions that don't deserve flack at all AND things that are rightfully acknowledged as bad things/mistakes by even her most adoring fans (Myself included) bc we, as Mai adorers who have the media literacy to look a little deeper than the surface to wholly understand morally complex characterization, can accept the fact that a character is allowed to make bad choices & be imperfect while not justifying their actions by blaming it all on their abuse/trauma or even simply bc we love the character... and the Mai rage-haters just chalk everything up to "Mai is toxic!1!"???
I'm convinced that Zvtarians are watching a different show. Either that or they're making shit up because tell me why I saw a post saying that in the fortuneteller episode after Aunt Wu said that Katara would marry a powerful bender it cut to Zuko. Now, I distinctly remember during that scene Aang was spying on their conversation. But maybe they meant the following scene. So I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt and rewatched that episode. And let me tell you, not only did the following scene not cut to Zuko but he wasn't even in that episode!
Once again: half these people haven't watched the actual show in years and the other half never watched it at all. Their idea of what happens in canon comes from tweets, edits, out of context gifs/pictures, fandom wiki nonsense and fanfic.
It's why you have them claiming Zuko only allowed Katara to touch his scar and got uncomfortable when Mai tried, when the reality was he wasn't THAT bothered by touch in the first place and clearly liked having Mai practically kiss and nuzzle his scar.
That is also everyone, but especially Zuko, Katara, Aang and Mai are WILDLY out of character in every zutara fic. They don't know the characters at all and have zero interest in ever knowing them, they just need faces and a setting to attached their OCs to.
Mai truly is for us emotionally repressed girlies like
Her whole character arc is like she’s emotionally repressed and was never allowed to express herself so she puts up all these walls and acts like she doesn’t care about anything and is so closed off.
And then her whole arc culminates with her loudly and proudly declaring the love she feels so deeply for Zuko. she expresses just how deep these emotions go, she is willing to die for him. Because she cares so much. Her emotions, her care, her love are so strong that they overpower her fear. Not just her fear of Azula but her fear of expressing herself, of stepping out of line, of standing for what she believes in. Which at this moment is Zuko- she doesn’t even fully understand what he’s doing, but she knows she trusts him more than anyone else. More than the fire nation propaganda and brainwashing, more than Azula, more than her parents. She knows Zuko has a good heart, she loves him for it, and she trusts it.
And that trust and love empowers her to finally express just how deeply she feels.
I don’t know if I’m articulating this very well but as someone who has always struggled to express myself Mai is just so fucking good and powerful to me.
You Know, I Think I Can Understand Why Michi Didn't Care About Mai
P.S: This post is meant to explain bad parenting, not excuse it. And this analysis will be focused on the show, not the comics.
Inspired by @zuko-always-lies and a Twitter thread I made earlier in the month(https://tinyurl.com/5epfmkvp)
The relationship between Mai, Michi(her mother), and Ukano(Mai's father) is not one that is given vast amounts of exploration. In fact, it's only explored in two episodes. But it still provides fascinating insight into the FN upperclass, and how imperialism can warp human relationships, even for the victors.
This is the first piece of dialogue we get when we first meet Mai and Michi:
It may not seem like much, but there's a lot to unpack here:
The conversation starts with Mai voicing her intense displeasure with the move to Omashu. Michi responds by bringing up Ukano's new appointment and their families' rise in status, and she states that Mai should be happy and enjoy the perks of their new position. Mai then responds by saying she has nothing to do and nothing ever happens, which Michi responds to by scowling.
Now, Mai isn't someone who's shy about expressing discontent (we see that throughout the show). But Michi's response (or lack thereof) to her discontent is very telling about their relationship. Firstly, Mai felt comfortable enough with her mother to openly express her dislike of their current situation, which indicates that Michi is probably the more active and approachable parent (Mai was angry about the way Ukano handled the pentapox situation, but all she did was offer him fireflakes).
Secondly, she didn't expect anything more than for her complaints to be dismissed and ignored. When she voices how bleak Omashu is, she doesn't expect a response, nor does she react to Michi's disdainful frown.
On Michi's end, while she's definitely not passionate about her daughters' continued misery, and would like to see her happy, she also doesn't really care. She never once asks about possible solutions to her daughter's boredom or isolation, nor does she ask Mai about what exactly is missing from her current life in Omashu that's causing her misery. She has no response to Mai's second comment, and is content to just side-eye her and move on.
I think we can all agree that this isn't stellar parenting, but if we go back and look at things from Michi's perspective, it makes sense:
I think there's enough in the text to conclude that Michi had fertility issues (Having 2 children 13 years apart doesn't seem like something someone in Michi's position would have done by choice. )
(Plus, if you believe Mai is Izumi's mother, this may be why Izumi is an only child).
So imagine this: you've spent a significant amount of time trying unsuccessfully to produce a male heir because men are the only ones that get high-ranking positions in your nation(remember guys, Azula was the only female in the war meeting and she was the Crown Princess who was specifically invited by the Firelord). While you're going through that, you and your husband have been working to advance his political career in order to protect and elevate your family. Then, finally, after 13 long years, you have a son, and soon after that, your husband is elevated to the position of governor of an entire colony. You've hit the jackpot, and all your efforts and ambitions have finally paid off. Under those circumstances, how perceptive would you be to the needs of the least necessary member of your family?
That scowl is foul, but I understand
In an imperial system, someone's intrinsic value is based on how much of an asset they are to the system. Mai is neither her family's future nor is she it's present. Her greatest task is to marry well, and her biggest prospect was burned and sent on an impossible scavenger hunt. Every time we see Michi care deeply for something, there's a logical reason(she cares about the fate of the city because her husband could potentially lose his governorship if it's mishandled; she cares about her son because he's the future of the family), but Michi doesn't have a logical reason to care about Mai, so she doesn't. And that makes Mai feel like her feelings don't matter, which causes her to repress herself.
Azula, the world's least qualified psychotherapist
I do think Mai cares about her family, and she wants their approval. But she much prefers that the company of the Fire Siblings and Ty Lee to theirs. That's why she was ready to go the moment she had the first opportunity. I'm not a big fan of the way the comics reset the familial relationships, because it didn't feel earned, and it felt like Yang missed the point of the original dynamic.
PS: I don't know why so many Zutara shippers insist on denying Mai's trauma. It doesn't actually make sense from a shipping standpoint because Mai's trauma doesn't somehow make her more suitable for Zuko (you could even argue that it makes her less suitable if you want to take it that far). Honestly, sometimes it feels like character spite drives certain segments of this fandom more than anything else.
Since zutarians are cowards, as usual, and think that blocking means "I'm right because you can't talk back now, HA!" I'm gonna have to be petty
1 - Poiting out that Mai explicitly complains about not having a relationship with her parents, that her friendly canonically conclude this is why she's so emotionally closed off, and that said parents are indeed never around is, in fact, not a contradiction or "reading into things". What's next, us being told that Ozai disfigured and traumatized Zuko, seeing that Zuko has a scar on his face and shows signs of trauma, and connecting the dots to say "Being physically abused by his father messed him up" is also "making things up"?
2 - Kissing your boyfriend, who kisses you back gladly, is not coersion or forcing yourself on someone who's not interested or being inappropriate, what planet are you from? Zuko is NOT shy about pushing away people who are getting on his nerves, or even just being too physical when he doesn't want it (see when Song tried to touch his scar). If he's constantly sucking face with Mai, even making moves on her after she yelled at everybody to fuck off and leave her be, it's because he likes her. Deal with it.
3 - Once again, you're acting like Zuko repeatedly seaking out Mai for comfort isn't indicating that she's proving said comfort, even as she's literally talking things out with him and cuddling him, ON SCREEN. Zuko likes to vent, he also doesn't like being ignored. There's a reason we see him going to Iroh and not Ozai. If Mai was giving him nothing, he wouldn't bother with her. And you're being extremely dishonest by acting like Mai EVER shut him down emotionally after the events of The Beach. We see her visibly concerned over his emotional wellbeing in Nightmares and Daydreams all the time, and once again, if Zuko didn't think it was genuine/didn't appreciate it, he'd treat her like a foe that is being nice either as a trick or to get something, aka how he treats his sister whom he has an actual power imbalance/struggle with.
4 - Mai not having a panic attack everytime Azula is in the room doesn't mean their friendship wasn't seriously screwed up with a heavy element of coersion, by that logic Zuko and Ozai's relationship is perfectly fine. Azula repeatedly shows to everyone, including her friends, that she's got zero problem taking advantage of the fact that she's a princess and gets to just demand things, and threaten or hurt people if she doesn't get her way. Mai being fed up with being treated like that is, by extension, being fed up with the Fire Nation's system, same way that Zuko being sick of Ozai's bullshit led to him changing sides in the war instead of just leaving home.
5 - HOW IN THE FUCK is Mai saving Zuko, and in the process commiting treason against the royals in power by knowingly helping someone who wants to take down the current rulers, not political? What's next, Zuko joining Aang isn't political?
6 - Mai's arrest and her release are literally two episodes apart. Zuko only escaped the Boiling Rock at all because of her and the warden is her uncle (who clearly cares for her), while he is busy both training Aang, being hunted down by Azula, and eventually needing a place to hide with his friends. He couldn't have gone after her immediately, just like he couldn't go after Iroh immediately, he was still glad to see them both when it was the right time. If he had tried, he'd likely just get captured again AND possibly make things worse for her - something we know he wouldn't want, as he literally said he didn't even try to ask her to leave the Fire Nation with him because he didn't want to risk her safety by making her a fugitive too. That's called "caring", which seems like a foreign concept to you.
7 - I literally said I don't like the comics and don't even consider them canon. YOU brought them up and LIED about Mai's political views not being made clear in them (and not being independent from Zuko despite them not being together in said comic), so I pointed out YOU were contradicting yourself. At this point, I'm wondering if you know how to read. Did you get ChatGPT to do a response for you, or did you turn to the cheap go-to response of the bully friends you tagged (No wonder someone who likes Sokkastyles can't understand the basics of how abuse, coersion and toxicity work)
8 - "I'm not lying" *proceeds to lie*. And the worst part is that I'm sure you believe your own bullshit.