Social Justice Druid

They/them Social justice and discourse side blog, to keep my main more focused on humor and fandom. Genderfluid, queer, bipolar, autistic, physically disabled, white, Jewish. Please tag videos, gifs, flashing lights, shouting, and all caps. I can't read walls of text, too many all caps, and have trouble with misspelling and lack of punctuation (a sentence or two is fine, but I'll have trouble parsing a paragraph) Icon by me

[jesusontwitter]

@nocturnal-spleen stating what’s obvious:

this absolute fucking scholar:

[queering-the-void]

Okay so hilarious tidbit about sarahncat’s Hot Take:

pineapples are, etymologically, LITERALLY APPLES. apple until very, very recently just meant ‘fruit.’ pineapple originally meant ‘pinecone’ then apparently got applied to spiky fruit in general, then just to the tropical fruit. dates were finger-apples. bananas were apples of paradise. one work called cucumbers earth apples, which is also what French calls potatoes. like, there are cases where compound words make zero sense. this is not one of them

[kithmet]

The Politics of Fandom: Anti-Culture, Anti-Anti Culture, and Censorship

So. I read a fandom meta essay on non-con works in fandom written by a survivor a while ago out of curiosity, and it was very interesting! I enjoyed it, personally, and it really enlightened me. Truthfully, it also helped me come to terms with my own personal stuff as well. Not necessarily directly relating to this specific kink, but other sexual kinks that I have entertained both online and in real life, and have always felt kind of weirdly ashamed about.

The mottos, “don’t like, don’t read,” and, “your kink is not my kink,” and, “ship and let ship,” used to be very important in fandom, and have sort of been lost (or more-so, challenged) over the evolvement of fandom, especially due to the upsurge of liberalism in social media.

Need I remind everyone: fandom was created and meant to be a safe space for us to enjoy content, especially since it’s occupied by a majority population of women (not that men in fandom don’t exist but their numbers are much lesser than ours). Those kinds of rules are important to keep the peace and respect amongst everyone in a fandom. (Without it, chaos ensues. I’ve witnessed this happen so many times it’s ridiculous.)

Of course it has been challenged, very heavily. Especially by the younger generation coming to fandom, many from the Tumblr era. I will also admit, I, myself, have occasionally challenged it as well. How could I not, when society has evolved so much in the past ten years, and things that were acceptable in 2008 (that should not have been) are now scrutinized through a more critical, progressive lens? Why should the same not be applied to fandom? 

Don’t get me wrong: I’m not pro-censorship, but I do think it’s important to be critical, and I am not the kind of person to just accept something as it is and say, “Well, we have allowed it in the past, so why not continue allowing it?” just because it seemed to have worked before. Maybe the answer is that feminism and activism don’t have a place in fandom, and we should just let it be and keep the peace.

I don’t want to pretend as if I know better than others; I’d rather learn and come to a consensus, democratically. I have come to some personal conclusions. Like, it goes without saying that just because someone writes or reads something, doesn’t mean it’s applicable to their real lives and what they personally believe in. Fiction does not equate to real life, et cetera. Writing can be a therapeutic measure, and just because someone writes something, doesn’t mean they should be judged for it, et cetera. Top and bottom discourse sucks and I’m never getting into it again because fuck that, et cetera. People can ship whatever they want and it doesn’t have to impact your ship or mean anything, it’s just a fun thing. We are the only ones who have a responsibility to what we consume. These are things that I’ve learned throughout the past year, through my own mishaps and experiences.

But there are a lot of things I haven’t come to conclusions about. Things that I am still confused about. Like…  what about underage (like, actually underage, not Tumblr underage) characters in sexual positions? I recently read a sexual fic about two characters where one is fourteen and the other is sixteen. Is that questionable? Should fandom people be allowed to write about (very, very underage) children and (actual, real) pedophiles preying on them in the sexual context? Does allowing and consuming this kind of fiction result in a change of psychology for the readers? It’s something I’ve wondered, especially after phenomenas like Twilight, 50 Shades of Grey, the Harry Styles After fanfic that people went wild over, even though it had some questionable themes.

If we read these things, does the existence of such media affect our real-life opinions, actions, and morals? There have been studies done on this before, saying we are heavily influenced by the media we consume. By allowing it, are we diminishing the impact that fanfiction might have on their consumers?

I don’t know; once again I don’t act like I have all the answers. I feel like this is a really complex issue. I also wonder if anti-antis being anti-censorship of all things also doesn’t help the fact. Does being quiet and fighting to allow it mean you’re conspiring to allow ‘problematic’ media to affect the minds of its consumers? 

Once again: I’m not pro-censorship but I just wanted to create this post to think more critically about this stuff potentially learn. If anyone has thoughts I’d love it if you shared them! I’m tagging some of my favourite discourse blogs to signal boost, and maybe see if anyone else has opinions. @freedom-of-fanfic @shipping-isnt-morality @shippingisnotactivism @discoursecatharsis @anti-anti-survivor @shipwhateveryouwant @antipurity

[nona-gay-simus]

In my opinion, the responsibility of fandom creators is to tag for whatever problematic and triggering content they portray. I don’t think it’s inherently wrong to portray any topic, especially depending on how it’s been portrayed.

Sure some things are going to make me do a double take and possibly not want to associate with the person who created them (I have a very large allowence for this.) But that doesn’t mean it’s inherently wrong for them to create them.

For instance, I have a friend who is in her late 20s and writes underage fics (16/18) because as a lesbian raised in a homophobic Catholic environment, she was robbed of having consenseual teenage experiences or even been able to see anyone like herself in media. She has also written csa fics because she is a call survivor.

While I don’t particularly want to read her underage fics I understand why she writes them and believe she has the right to do it, even if it makes me uncomfortable.

There are subliminal messages in media that affect us because that’s how real life works more or less but that doesn’t mean you’ll read a rape fic and suddenly think rape is ok.

@freedom-of-fanfic has a lot of thoughts on fandom vs mainstream media and I’m not nearly as well spoken as they are, so I hope they can add something to this.

[queering-the-void]

I’m not really involved in Discourse, but I have some immensely Problematic ships and have since I entered fandom, so I can personally speak to why a lot are appealing. (Sorry this got really long, I ramble. Also. Uh. Kind of personal)

Underage: having been in fandom since age 10 plus been an early bloomer, and having for most of my youth been interested primarily in my own age group, the vast, vast, vast majority of people writing fics with 14 year olds or younger are that age (you can tell because none of them know how anatomy works let alone sex. Or writing). I wrote my first smut fic at 13. It was Terrible, but I got some positive comments even, because I was writing for a rarepair f/f ship in a fandom with basically no femslash. Fandom was huge in helping me process and accept my attraction to girls, tbh

I’ll also admit to having read some explicit adult/child (or child/smaller child) fics when I was 10-12. Every. Single. One. Was extremely, immensely explicit about the adult being a villain and Evil. The vast majority had a second part or hint at an epilogue where the victim got Revenge. I don’t know the authors’ stories, but you could kinda tell it was often vent fic? (I had anxieties about adults hurting me because I was abused and was starting to be sexually harassed some by unrelated adults and teens, those fics really helped with realizing that even if things ever got way, way worse I’d eventually be fine)

(Society: Oh, honey, adults won’t hurt you!) (demonstrably false)

(Adult/child vent fics: when adults hurt you the lead up looks like this, they are Evil and you can STAB THEM) (actually cathartic + helpful)

Re: anxiety, there’s also a major part of fiction that’s. Basically preparing yourself to react to things? Like, someone tells a story about the Worst thing that ever happened to them and how they reacted. You get to turn it over in your head. Play with it safely. Do a kind of light exposure therapy. (I do this with pregnancy fics, I have a massive phobia/ repulsion towards the idea of getting pregnant so I like to explore the variety of possible reactions to unexpected or unwanted pregnancy, and I’d be shocked if a lot of writers of darkfic weren’t doing that too)

Teacher/student: when I was 15, our Spanish teacher had a baby and took time off. The long-term sub was in her early twenties. She spoke five (five!) languages. She was extremely dedicated to working personally with each of us. I had a Hella Instant Crush. Which is really common! I hadn’t previously found any ships that involved anyone over 17-ish at all interesting, because I’d previously been pretty sure Adults Are Icky, but I found myself delving into basically every teacher/student fic I could get my hands on in my primary fandoms. Some of them portrayed it as unquestionably romantic (these usually involved older students who often had graduated by the fic’s time). Some portrayed it as abuse. Some portrayed it as mutually fucked up and terrible for everyone involved, including the teacher. Some had the student pursuing and convincing their reluctant teacher.

Tagging wasn’t really a Thing back then, the only thing you warned for was slash content, so the abuse and romance and fucked up fics were all jumbled together and there was nothing to say which was right. I, being possessed of better analytical capacity than a five-year-old, was able to pretty easily figure out that the Yeah This Is Fucked Up fics were more realistic, while also satisfying my pretty stubborn crush with the romantic ones because they let me live vicariously. Knowing me I’m decently sure the main reason I didn’t approach my teacher to make vague attempts at flirting was that I had an outlet in fic.

Generic terribleness: tbh I have a violence kink. And a blood kink. And a fighting-as-foreplay kink. Fighting is High Emotions and Adrenaline and all that exciting stuff, and I’ve always been a bit to a lot of a masochist. In general, things that are taboo are interesting! Humans like exploring and playing with them.

Fandom cultural things: the Ultra Super Duper Problematic groups are usually way, way, way more chill. Like, Naruto fandom. The three Big Pairings couldn’t go five seconds without massive flamewars (many of them internal). I meanwhile was (and still am) sitting in the How Terrible Can We Be To Characters Let’s Find Out corner chilling with some pretty nice folk enjoying a drama-free life.

And. Really. Fic’s not the cause of problems? More a reflection/result. Like the top/bottom thing reflected homophobic attitudes in society, and largely went away as education improved. (Also a lot of gay guys making “how to write realistic gay sex” I think helped, I saw a bunch of lists like that getting passed around and sparking convos. Meta is a really great way to improve fandom!)

[xoxolittle-princessxoxo]

OK guys and gals (or whatever you prefer to be called) I have something to say: we need to stop posting in tags that aren’t ours! The pink, kitten and other tags should be reserved for things related to those tags. I know you want people to see your stuff but those tags aren’t the appropriate ones. It’s easy to see why some antis have a problem with us. I don’t post in those tags but I decided to look through them to see if it was as bad as the antis said, it is. Our lifestyle/kink CAN be triggering to some people and we have to respect that. I have arachnophobia (fear of spiders) and I wouldn’t want to see spiders in our tag because 1. They are fucking scary and give me panic attacks and 2. Its not related to our tag. I can’t control ya'all, but please tag responsibly.

[babydragonborn-blog]

Tag responsibly people!

[call-me-salt]

Good post! If you absolutely feel the need to cross tag like this, at least have your blog marked as mature so people who want to avoid adult/kink blogs can do so more easily.

[nonbinarypastels]

Also if you tag in order to have posts organized on your blog something you can do to avoid your posts going in non-kink tags while still making your blog easy to search for people is tagging something as like “#subject: ___” or “#kink: ___” or things like that.

So rather than tagging a post as #kitten, #subject: kitten or #kink: kitten or #kink: pet play. Rather than tagging as #pink, you can tag as #color: pink or #aesthetic: pink. Your posts will still be organized but nobody is going to go into a #kink: ___ tag unless they’re specifically looking for kink posts and pretty much no one is going to search up #color: pink or tags like that, either.

[queering-the-void]

Also putting tags after the first five, assuming tumblr still functions like it used to (a thin assumption on this hellsite). Only first five tags show up in tumblr tag search thingy. Probably still best to have alternate tags, in case tumblr ever changes that or outright breaks.

[jewishmagpie-deactivated2018092]

The way I see it, there's probably some people who are legitimately non-binary, meaning neither male nor female. We know what the brains of man and women roughly look like. This is part of the scientific evidence for being transgender. I'd be surprised if none of the 6 billion humans on Earth has a brain that falls outside of these categories. But a lot of the people who claim to be non-binary aren't actually that, and are just claiming it to look cool and get attention on the lgbt+ internet.

I see what you’re saying, and I agree to some extent.

If being “non binary” were legitimate – and please excuse my terrible scientific language, I hope that this makes sense – then it would randomly affect people due to whatever mutations or womb-hormones etc made them that way.

But doesn’t it strike you as strange that we’re supposed to accept that this random quirk of biology exists and somehow only affects people that have Leftist (or, most commonly, far-Leftist) political views? 

I mean, if that changes and there are some hard-Right-wingers that say that they’re “non binary,” then of course I’ll be more than happy to reevaluate my views and most probably change them.

But you know what I’m saying here.

[avienbgwp]

You could say the same thing about being gay or trans. I‘ve literally never heard of a politically right leaning trans or gay person, doesn’t mean I think all trans and ga people are “faking it” or whatever.

[jewishmagpie-deactivated2018092]

You’re joking, though, right?

I mean, we’ll put aside the likes of Blaire White and Milo Yiannopoulos for a moment. We’ll even ignore that the leader of the Scottish Conservatives, Ruth Davidson, who’s a lesbian, and forget other LGBT Right-leaning politicians. We’ll even put aside the Log Cabin Republicans in the US, along with the other LGBT organisations in Right-wing political parties.

We’re on Tumblr. In Discourse Tumblr Hell – of which I am clearly a part – you can easily find LGBT people who are all over the political spectrum.

I mean, look at trans people for example. You’ve got everyone from far-Left “You don’t need dysphoria to be trans even though I have it” trans people, to “I have gender dysphoria and am trans but am also a TERF” people, all the way across the political spectrum to the most infamous trans Nazi Wasp.

So please don’t attempt to deliberately misinterpret my argument and then dismiss my views about the “non binary genders” as a hand-waved “people are faking” when I make it very clear that I believe that the vast majority of those people that use those labels are misinformed and confused and have other labels or issues that have encouraged them to use it.

You know exactly what I’m saying, and I’m sorry, but that kind of passive-aggressive nonsense could easily be avoided by proving me wrong and finding me a single politically-Right leaning person on Tumblr that unironically and seriously uses the term “non binary” to describe themselves.

But I genuinely don’t believe that you can.

And that is absolutely my point. 

[who-is-page]

Instead of deciding the validity of non-binary people based on their political alignment, maybe we should just openly acknowledge that some people may experience gender dysphoria on both sides of the “gender spectrum” and leave it at that. Because it’s ridiculous to base the legitimacy of an identity on whatever political alignment happens to be most prominent (or which political alignment happens to be the loudest and most recognizable) within the group. Just a thought.

[jewishmagpie-deactivated2018092]

You can be as sarcastic as you want…

…but we both know that my argument is valid, and because you don’t like it, you’re forced to misrepresent it.

The point is that innate identity labels have nothing to do with political thoughts and ideas. Thoughts and ideas change. Identity labels do not. Sure, there are people convinced that they’re one thing and then realise that they were actually another thing all along, but that’s not the issue.

At the end of the day, you could quite easily prove me wrong by showing me different individuals with those differing beliefs. 

But while I’m sitting here, able to show you examples of every other identity represented across the board, apparently you and others can’t show me a single example of a Right-wing person that sincerely calls themselves “non binary.” 

It’s not about which group is “most prominent.” It’s about accepting that if an identity label is contained only within a specific set of personal ideals – ideals which are not innate, are informed and can change – then there is clearly something dodgy about that label.

So if you’re going to argue with me, then at least have the decency to argue the point or prove me wrong and not simply throw a tantrum because I’ve pointed out something that makes you uncomfortable.

[who-is-page]

Your argument really, truly isn’t based in logic nor reason. Your argument literally amounts to “I don’t believe this identity to be legitimate because everyone I have met within it so far has been more liberal than conservative.”

Now, you can view it that way if you want. But given that you yourself have claimed that political thoughts and ideas are separate from identity labels–something which isn’t true from an entirely literal sense given that certain identities are innately intertwined with politics and that’s just how it is, just want to point that out–then why is it that you’re going after non-binary people? It doesn’t make sense.

The dysphoria I experience and my resulting gender identity has nothing to do with my political alignment and opinions. Political alignment are affected by numerous things, to be certain–and while my experiences AROUND my dysphoria and gender may lend to them in some way, my dysphoria and gender identity are not dictated by my politics. It doesn’t make sense to be suggesting such. In example, saying that just because I (a vision impaired and homeless queer) want universal healthcare (a traditionally liberal desire) that therefore my gender identity is illegitimate, doesn’t make sense. It just doesn’t. No correlation, no causation. Acting smug over in-tag sarcasm doesn’t change that.

[onerealperson]

Hey, OP! I found the nonbinary right-winger!

I tried to reblog this to my discourse blog with a long post, twice, and Tumblr ate it both times, so I’m not sure if someone has blocked my discourse blog or what, but my main doesn’t seem to be blocked by either of you so I’m just going to attempt to briefly recapitulate here the reasons why there aren’t more nonbinary conservatives to be found:

Self-selection bias is a thing - political affiliation is a choice. Not hanging around with people who want to kill you is the choice that most people make.

Despite this, I keep meeting nb people who earnestly advocate conservative views (I spend most of my time on @lines-and-edges complaining about them and their binary lgbtq+ peers). They just don’t want to associate with people who use identity labels like right-wing or conservative, because right now those identity labels are associated with hating or denying the existence of nb people.

In-group jargon is also a thing. I have met Republicans who say “well I’m not really a man or a woman but I was born this way and I guess I’m just sort of going along with it,” which is basically the socially acceptable option for them, I guess?

Anyway, despite all this, there’s at least one nonbinary conservative Trump supporter, who I linked to at the beginning of the post.

[fierceawakening]

this thing always baffles me because if gayness or transness are caused, in whole or in part, by things like prenatal hormone imbalances then why is “oh, fierce got just too much androgens prenatally to not be sure she’s a girl but not enough to want to be a man, and would in an ideal world have a body to match” somehow not make sense? because that’s literally what i think is the case about myself, so

[onecornerface]

“We know what the brains of man and women roughly look like. This is part of the scientific evidence for being transgender. I’d be surprised if none of the 6 billion humans on Earth has a brain that falls outside of these categories. But a lot of the people who claim to be non-binary aren’t actually that”

This is one reason why promoting the idea that brain scans are important “scientific evidence for being transgender” is a terrible idea. Even if it’s true that trans people tend to have particular results on brain scans, it’s utterly inevitable that lots of trans people won’t have those particular results. And then the brain scans will be referenced in order to socially (and medically) de-legitimize those trans people.

Natalie Reed said this would happen, and we’re basically seeing it right here.

[lines-and-edges]

Also, like @fierceawakening was saying, nonbinary isn’t necessarily inherently outside of the phenotypic attributes people broadly associate with gender; “in between/ambiguous” is also a possible setting. There are major overlaps found in every physical attribute designated as male or female in the first place, anyway… Humans sexual dimorphism just simply isn’t as absolute as it’s made out to be in grade-school level biology.

[xenoqueer]

I didn’t really want to have to convert the “male and female brain differences” numbers into bell curves just for the sake of this post, but fortunately at least one of these numbers- structural interconnectivity- has been turned into a bell curve already. 

So here you go. Here’s the lauded, applauded “difference” between “male” and “female” brains that so concretely determines gender.

A bell chart showing the results of a study on male and female brain connectivity. The two curves are almost completely overlapping, however, there is a slight offset between the male and female results.

This is one of the many reasons why statistical significant and practical significance are not the same things.

Statistically, yes, there’s a difference. But for practical purposes outside of extremely specific forms medical research? No. Not at all.

Even in regards to statistical significance, the difference is limited in both scale, and in scope- in the very narrow purview of connections between brain regions, women are very slightly more likely to have a very slightly higher connectivity between hemispheres. But, then again, there is no statistical difference in the composition of the regions being connected. 

And from a practical perspective, you cannot guess the gender of a person just by looking at brain scans of them. 

[queering-the-void]

This is a good look at the science behind the false idea that men and women are somehow inherently different, and how it sure is convenient that pop neurology claims that brain scans confirm Western gender roles.

(I too personally know centrist and right-wing nonbinary people (all of them white) because I know a lot of nonbinary people. But nonbinary people are often leftist for the same reason other marginalized identities are anywhere from often to overwhelmingly leftist - the right is really, really fucking hostile towards us, and current established nonbinary communities are hostile towards Trump supporters, so nonbinary rightwingers tend to present only one half of their identity with either group. What happens more commonly is someone realizes they’re not the Right Wing Gender Ideal, realizes the right wing ideal might be wrong about other shit, and then leave that community. The vast majority enbies I know have right-winger families)

Here finds that around 89% of LGB folk are solidly to slightly Democratic or Independent. That doesn’t mean LGB folk are all lying for attention, or that being LGB is a political statement. 

But. Like. Jewishmagpie likes to join truscum in bullying trans minors, so. And refuses to listen to evidence. And correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m also pretty sure is cis? Doesn’t say one way or the other, but usually words things like she is? Which. Like. Cis people get zero say in trans intercommunity issues.

The scientific evidence for being transgender and/or nonbinary is the exact same as the scientific evidence that introverts, extroverts, and ambiverts exist, and that neurodiversity exists. I have the exact same proof that I’m trans and genderfluid as that I’m queer, that I’m autistic, that I’m bipolar, that I’m an ambivert - internal experiences, and since you’re also anti-self dx, also that a psychiatrist confirmed what I already knew (for autism, bipolar, and trans status). (Yup! Scientists acknowledge nonbinary genders, what a radical idea. The scientists who don’t are the same ones who don’t acknowledge anyone as trans, or who insist that trans people must perform their gender more intensely than cis people. Please read this (APA on nonbinary genders), this (identical twins, one is trans other isn’t - clearly not a womb or genetics thing) and this (national geographic summarizing the basic science))

People who insist that you must be This Trans To Enter (like OP) are a huge part of the reason it’s difficult for trans people to get necessary medical care. If someone wants to transition, they should be allowed to, no psychological screening needed. If someone wants to change their gender markers, they should be allowed to, regardless of whether they’ve already transitioned. It costs you jackshit to respect the internal experiences of other people.

[memorydatas]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[memorydatas]

for context:

[verdants-old-stuff]

I didn’t think that the original was as garish as the EU Barcode and was missing several flags, so I made two versions of my own:

Left to Right: Agender, Lesbian (Lipstick), Pansexual, Bisexual, Transgender, Gay Pride,  Nonbinary, Genderqueer, Asexual, Intersex, Demisexual, Genderfluid, and Aromantic. (Demi kind of broke the barcode, but meh)

Here’s a version with the lipstick lesbian flag replaced with a lesbian pride flag proposed by @anurtransyl on this post: http://anurtransyl.tumblr.com/post/172755268988/proposal-for-a-new-lesbian-flag

[shipping-isnt-morality]

I seriously wonder about minors who are like “THERES A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A 16 YEAR OLD AND A 20 YEAR OLD!!!” bc like….. please. please go interact with people outside of your high school

go be a camp counselor or make friends at conventions or join a community theater or - something. literally anything that gets you interacting on an equal level with people more than a year or two older than you. school creates an artificial power imbalance that is highly dependent on age, that’s not how maturity works. You SHOULD be having more and more experiences as you approach adulthood where you’re on equal footing with adults. Having adult friends who aren’t directly responsible for your wellbeing is healthy and it’s insane and concerning to me that that’s so RARE now.

(When I say “responsible for your wellbeing” I mean, like, legally liable in some way. A decent friend shouldn’t endanger you or help you break the law, that’s not what I’m talking about here.)

as someone who has experienced being both older and younger than 16 and 20 years old? The difference is NOT as big as you feel it is, and that feeling is shaped by culture, not actual maturity. make friends outside your immediate age bracket, for god’s sake.

[fozzie]

you sound like a fucking pedophile.

without infantilizing teenagers or thinking they’re the same as young kids, any reasonable adult knows that there is still a difference in maturity and experience between a teen and an adult.

teens, please stay away from adults who say shit like “there’s really not such a difference between (mid-teen age) and (early-20s age).” there is. watch out for creeps like this.

[totaldisgrace]

I wonder how a blog about shipping and being angry at “antis” suddenly makes the leap to endorsing 16 year olds dating 20 year olds /s

[shipping-isnt-morality]

1) the argument was contextual in reference to someone specifically, verbatim, saying “THERES A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A 16 AND A 20 YEAR OLD!!!” Followed by “ADULTS HAVE NO REASON TO BE FRIENDS WITH TEENS EXCEPT PREYING ON THEM” which is. not true and a terrifying thing to say to teens.

2) how many times do I have to say “friends” and “don’t do anything illegal” in one post before someone jumps wholesale to calling me a pedophile for…. saying that young adults and late teens can and should be friends?

3) given the number of people calling 16 year olds “literal children”, I’m not at all sure that infantilizing teens isn’t what’s happening here

4) the post wasn’t about romantic relationships, the comments weren’t about romantic relationships, romantic relationships are different from friendships and even small power imbalances should be approached more carefully except that I said the word friendship in EVERY PARAGRAPH OF THE ORIGINAL POST

[queering-the-void]

Like. Seriously. I played dnd starting when I was eight. I was often the only under-thirty at the table, sometimes the only under-forty. I made a ton of good friends through gaming at home, at stores, and at conventions. Almost all adults! And then when I was twelve I got into fandom, again most of the friends I made were twenty or older, often thirty or older; some of them helped me realize my sexuality and articulate what I’d always known about my gender. When I was sixteen, I got a job where everyone else was over twenty, again often over thirty. My coworkers were great for talking to and helping put my high school troubles in perspective. Throughout school I was often better friends with the teachers than my classmates. 

I’m currently a mentor to some high school aged queer teens; and there really, really isn’t that big a gap between us - we all struggle with queerphobia and schoolwork and (sometimes) jobs, and I’ve been where they’re at in other cases. And where there is a gap - it’s good to have different perspectives on shit! It’s good to be able to bounce problems and ideas off of someone who experienced and survived the same shit you’re going through. Adults don’t magically become Disney villains the day they turn 18, I promise.

Tbh I liked hanging out with adults better, because they didn’t bully me relentlessly like other kids and teens did.

And really? Anyone telling you that Adults Are Dangerous, Other People (than them) Are Dangerous, that you shouldn’t seek help outside your immediate social circle - that’s anywhere from a massive red flag to toxic as fuck.

[shippydiscource]

Dear maxvid and other pedo shippers…

Can I talk to you for a bit?

And i’m seriuos i’m not bieng sarcastic or wanna hurt you or anything like that, I legit want to talk to you and have a decent adult conversation with you in order to understand why you think shipping pedophilia is ok.Becuase let me get one thing straight, I DESPISE maxvid and other pedo ships but I find that other people constantly yelling,sending death treaths and harrasing you, WILL NOT get us anywhere and is honestly just a horrible way to go about this situation. So instead i just wanna talk, becuase while i hate the ship i don’t think i can bring myself to hate the person without getting to know their personality better.

Oh and another thing, anti-shippers better stay away from this post if all you’re gonna do is get mad and yell at them, This post is here so that we can hopefully make peace and understand shippers instead of just bieng bitter and angry about them all the time. You’re free to interact if your going to be respectfull. but if you just wanna hate and be a jerk then find your own post becuase this one isn’t meant for you.And you better miss me with that,

“they’re pedo’s and pedos hurt minors and csa survivors so they dont deserve respect uwu”

bs becuase on top of the fact that you would need MUCH more then the fact that they ship gross ships to prove that they touch children IRL, you realize that alot of shippers ARE CSA survivors…riight? You realize that alot of them are MINORS like 12-17 right?

“B..b..but they can’t be csa survivors! They ship pedophillia and csa survivors hate those things! It triggers them! Why would any csa survivor ever do that?!”

That’s just the thing, I don’t know, and neither do you, but im not gonna sit here and assume that i do then act as if ostarizing them is somehow gonna help anyone at all, and neither should you. The entire point of this post is to figure out why they ship it so if you’re really curiuos then read carefully, But don’t come here screaming at young children and then telling me you wanna protect them. If you wanna tell a child that they’re doing something wrong do it maturley please, they’ll probably grow out of it eventually later on anyways. You know what? don’t yell at anyone without a good reason period.

Ok so without any further ado…shippers…WHY do you ship the ships you ship?You realize it’s pedophillia right? Like you are straight up shipping canon children with canon grown adults right? Does that not disturb you? I don’t wanna fight i just wanna know.

[shipping-isnt-morality]

Y’know, you seem like you’re sincere? So I’m down to talk to you.

I should qualify: I’m not active in the maxvid fandom, though I’m around because I know people who are, and because some serious doxxing and threats have happened there. But I have other age gap ships, and while “they’re not real” is reason enough, there is a BIT more to why I ship problematic stuff.

For me, I grew up in an INTENSELY Christian cult. And I’m not straight. So my sexuality, until my late teens, was tied up with crippling feelings of guilt and self-loathing. Even after separating myself from the cult and getting help, that kind of thing doesn’t just go away. And reading about those feelings in fiction, playing with the ways that they shaped me, was helpful in processing those feelings (I mean, “the forbidden” is a common theme in loads of sexual and romantic content anyways, and there was a certain degree of thrill in knowing that being discovered with my girlfriend could ruin my life. I mean, it was also fucked up and traumatic, but it sure did kick a lot of adrenalin and endorphins around.)

Of course, fictional characters aren’t real people, and so I don’t feel nearly the same empathy for them as I feel for real people - so I had no qualms about putting them through hell. I LOVE seeing characters struggle with guilt and self-loathing over who they’re attracted to, and I’m not really bothered by the form that comes in - maybe it’s a 90’s high school AU in the height of homophobia, maybe it’s a character in a committed relationship cheating on their partner, maybe it’s a character realizing they’re attracted to their brother, maybe it’s a teacher realizing they have a thing for a student. I don’t “ship” these things for good feelings or because it’s goals or whatever - I do it because guilt and sexuality and romance are really intensely bonded for me, and fiction is a way to have an outlet for that. To be totally blunt, fiction is a safe, healthy way of dealing with the part of me that wants to still feel guilty over sexuality.

I copiously warn for everything, so my readers aren’t being hurt and I’m not being hurt and the characters can’t be hurt. So all things considered, as emotional outlets go, it’s really one of the best.

(And yes, my therapist knows about and approves of this. Coping with intense emotions and messed up associations due to trauma through fiction is a pretty common thing.)

By the way? I really, really appreciate “Why would any survivor do that? I don’t know, and neither do you.”

Because that’s the heart of it. I mean, I’m a pro-shipping blog, but I still hear about ships and go “gross, what the fuck, why”, because that’s a human reaction. But I’m willing to give people the general benefit of the doubt, and you are too. So I think we have some common ground there.

[shippydiscource]

Hmm intrresting, this is good information thanks, also do you think you can provide links showing statistics or some sort of how well copeshipping is reccomended by therapists? I heard a claim of copeshipping bieng a perfectly ok with therapist and i wanna see if it’s true.

[shipping-isnt-morality]

Well, there isn’t research on cope-shipping specifically, since that’s a really narrowly defined behavior. But various kinds of therapy via fictional catharsis have been discussed:

People writing disturbing stories are often working through a mix of active imaginations, anxieties, and intense emotions; it’s considered normal and is not a cause for concern.

This book goes into great depth on trauma victims and people with PTSD gravitating towards disturbing literature to deal with the emotions and experiences of trauma

Here’s an article which interviews people who have used fiction as catharsis and a doctor who recommends the same

Here’s a psychologist who uses horror, including erotic horror, in cognitive behavioral therapy

Here’s a fairly comprehensive review on the ways fiction is used as catharsis in therapy, with particular notes on dealing with unresolved emotions and on having distant, unrealistic, exaggerated stories sometimes be better for this since they allow a greater distance from ourselves

This one’s a personal anecdote, but the author is a doctor. I especially liked this quote: “I have to find a way to make sense of the pain and anxiety in my body—and so I match that internal tumult with the scariest story I can create.” (The same general concept applies to other unwanted and overwhelming emotions, I’m sure.)

Theres also many, many, many anecdotal stories of therapists using fictional trauma as a gateway to talking about real trauma (google search “trauma fiction therapy” or similar).

In general, it’s well-researched that fiction is a way of distancing oneself from an emotion and exploring it in its full intensity in a safe environment.

[queering-the-void]

Also not a maxvid shipper (not even sure what that refers to), but I’ve had more than a couple of adult/minor ships over my stint in fandom, though not as copeships. (One, stronger, ship is incest, five year age gap, time period I’m most interested in has them 16-17 and 21-22 [I started shipping them when they were 12/17 when I was also 12, but my interest in that period of canon’s faded]. One, milder, ship is superior/follower, fourteen year age gap, time period I’m most interested in is 15-16 and 29-30, off the top of my head). I’ve been shipping both since I was twelve. I liked the first one because their relationship was violent and violence kink, then later in the series it was revealed that the elder was devoted to the younger, and hello loyalty kink. The second one was popular in the fandom, and one of the few ships available since there weren’t many reoccuring characters, though their dynamic was nice enough 

I tend to age them up in AUs and do a lot of imagining with them later in the series, because I’m interested in people my own age, but I still occasionally play in the sandbox with their original ages. I’d ship them if in source material they were older, too, and would currently prefer that, though I probably would’ve started shipping later since at 12 I wanted at least one partner to be vaguely close to my own age. But the ‘I like this pairing’ switch in my head didn’t magically flip to ‘off’ the day I turned 18.

(I had a fleeting teacher/student ship, too, that was entirely me exploring and working out my crush on a teacher in a safe way, but I stopped shipping it once I finished processing those emotions. But ‘teen is attracted to adult, wants a sandbox to explore this in rather than approaching actual adult’ is a very common use case, and should be encouraged because for most people your imagination is the safest sandbox available. If I hadn’t had a proxy for emotions, I might’ve tried flirting with my teacher, which would’ve put me at risk. Cousin/cousin ships I also have a bunch of lying around, because they were a good way for me to process having a crush on my actual cousin, and actually helped that attraction fade)

A lot of people also kind of... Skipped their own childhood/ teenaged years, and are living them vicariously. I never got a chance to pursue my queerness as a teen, so I like stories about queer teens who can be the people I’d wanted to be.

Here’s the thing: characters aren’t real. That’s... Really very obvious to me, I can experience all the ups and downs of their relationships and all the kink buttons their relationships push, then walk away from the computer and not think about it because nothing actually happened. It’s fiction, and pretty damn far from reality. The siblings aren’t real siblings. The minors aren’t real minors, and despite the occasional anime 16 year old pushing my buttons, I find RL minors unattractive

Also literary history: this sort of shit’s been popular for ages. Catharsis is part of the whole point of tragedy and horror, that tragedy and horror also being sexual doesn’t somehow magically change that. ‘This is terrible’ is a common reason to read something. A lot of people find terrible ships more interesting than non-terrible ships, because terrible ships are dynamic and tense and dramatic, and all those things are elements of stories. Same general reason we go to haunted houses. (I personally find coffee shop AUs and 100% pure organic certified non-GMO ships boring af, I don’t mind no major internal fighting but please at least hang one of them off a cliff so there’s some angst)

You’re allowed to have NOTPs! You’re allowed to have ships you absolutely hate and blacklist and feel sick to your stomach when you see, I have plenty of ships like that, mostly because they managed to actually feel decently close to reality. I tag my shit thoroughly so people with NOTPs and squicks can avoid it, and people with OTPs and kinks can find it. (Tumblr’s terrible for avoiding shit, so I also don’t post the easily squicky stuff here, just on sites with a functional warning system)

[blueflavored]

oops i went off

[youareagoodperson]

tag yourself I’m femme queer

[shidgephobe]

Oh, oh, I call “queer as an umbrella term”!! :D

[victim-that-speaks]

I’m split attraction model. Accusations of gate keeping, except it’s happening with people trying to kick out the B and the T. Including polyamory. Including intersex (if they choose). I use queer and get told I can’t so that’s another one.

I also like the ridiculously specific Mogai identity. You know. But hmm, just seems like wanting specific terms to actually relate to that fit, rather than stupidly broad terms I’m forced under, actually suits me.

[queering-the-void]

I got bingo! At least twice! Do I get a reward?

[jockoppressor]

Pride Month is nearly upon us & i created this handy flowchart to help anyone who’s still confused

[vulpixtrans]

thats some tasty biphobia

[justanotherprdevotee]

How is this biphobia when to be bi you have to be attracted both to the opposite gender and the same gender? Did you think before posting?

[vulpixtrans]

[acesian]

The bi community tends to use “attraction to two or more genders” or “attraction to more than one gender” as its definition, not the one given here. @garlicsister please listen to bi people defining their own orientation, not others defining it for us.

I’m pretty sure the reason @inclusionistpropaganda posted about nonbinary and genderqueer people right after saying “thats some tasty biphobia” is because many people don’t feel that they have a same/similar gender to be attracted too?

[jockoppressor]

i was simplifying for the sake of the limited space allowed for commenting on a post. here’s an example of what i was trying to say with my comments and the organization of the chart.

first, a man who is attracted to women and nonbinary people is simply transphobic. he is looking at nonbinary people and either seeing different flavors of women, or he’s seeing something to fetishize. if he’s attracted to women, nonbinary people, and men, there’s still a possibility that his attraction to nonbinary people is rooted in transphobia, but we now have a guarantee of attraction to at least two genders.

second, lesbian, gay, and bi people (i leave trans people out of this particular point because it’s not the place for those particular nuances) are oppressed for the attraction we feel. gay men are oppressed because we are attracted to men. lesbians are punished for attraction to women and their inherent unavailability to men. bi men and women are oppressed because they experience some attraction to their own gender, and are not correctly performing their expected role of “exclusive heterosexual attraction” (nonbinary bi people are oppressed on two axes here: not conforming to their birth assigned gender and not correctly performing their expected role of “heterosexual member of their birth assigned gender class”).

third, “are you cisgender” was my first node by design. nonbinary people can see that question and say “no, i am not cis” and follow it to the termination point that says “yes, you are lgbt” without ever having to consider their attraction. nonbinary people are lgbt regardless of their answer to “are you attracted to your own gender?” i am aware that the question can be irrelevant and at times even impossible to answer, so i placed it second, so that it would be a determining factor only for cis people, who are necessarily men or women

finally, a bit of self-defense. by brief time identifying as bisexual came to an end when i realized that the identity bore no relevance to my reality. the fact that i have seen nonbinary people to whom i am attracted and with whom i would consider a relationship does not change the fact that i will likely always be perceived and situated as a gay man, facing the material consequences of being a gay man. by either of our definitions, i could again identify as bi. i simply choose not to, because “gay” is a better fit for my economic and political ideology and for the actual way i live my life

[acesian]

1. I’m not nonbinary so I’m not going to comment on whether nonbinary people feel like they’re being fetishized but I will say that doubting bi people’s orientation is nothing new. You don’t need a “guarantee” that they’re bi - just listen to what they say.

2. Are you saying bi people are only oppressed if they have “"same gender attraction”“? Because “bi people are sluts!”, “bi people are more likely to cheat!” and other biphobic beliefs target bi people for being bi, not “part gay” or whatever. Not to mention, some studies have found that bi people experience higher rates of sexual assault than gay men and lesbians, which doesn’t make sense if bi people only face homophobia, and not biphobia.

3. Again, I’m not nonbinary.

4. I’m glad you found a label that works for you. But just because you don’t think bi describes your experiences doesn’t mean you should limit how someone else describes themself. And if you don’t identify as bi, you shouldn’t be telling people who can use the bi label. (Tbh I don’t think anyone should tell anyone else which label to use.)

[jockoppressor]

considering the # of people who don’t understand what lgbt means, i think it’s useful to remind people what labels mean and what they don’t

yes, that’s exactly what i’m saying. if a cis person doesn’t experience any attraction to their own gender, they aren’t oppressed for their attraction. there’s no structural oppression against straight transphobes who fetishize nonbinary people

[acesian]

But you aren’t reminding people what bi means…. since you aren’t using the right definition, you’re just misinforming others.

And biphobia applies to all bi people, not just ones that experience “same gender attraction” (like me). If a person says they’re bi, straight biphobes (the ones with the power to oppress non-straight people) aren’t going to ask “oh?? Are you same gender attracted??”

Also, how do you know that these bi people are fetishizing their nonbinary partners, as opposed to simply…. liking them? It seems like calling bi people straight without any reason.

If you want to call yourself gay and not bi, that’s great! But you can’t call bi people “straight”. Other people get to choose their own labels.

[jockoppressor]

you can’t be cis & bi without attraction to your own gender. the lgbt community was built by and for trans people & (cis) people who experience attraction to their own gender (please attempt to read anything further in good faith & assume i’m not trying to force nonbinary bi/pan people to define their attraction as “to their own gender” when that might be impossible). like i’m sorry if the historical context of the lgbt community bothers you but like that’s just how it is

every (cis) person who says “i’m bi” experiences biphobia because people assume it means that the person in question is attracted to their own gender. Joe Blow isn’t gonna say “i’m bi” and have Hetty Betty ask “but wait, are you ‘bi’ as in ‘into dudes’ or…” because like… attraction to one’s own gender is necessary & sufficient for a cis person to be lgbt. 

maybe they’re not! it’s also entirely possible that Joe Blow sees the nonbinary person he’s dating the way he sees, say, Diet Pepsi or Cherry Coke. even in the off-chance that he is sincere, being lgbt isn’t about ~deviating from heteronormativity~ or whatever. it’s about being trans and/or experiencing same-gender attraction. they still have access to privilege over real lgbt people, because the axes of oppression here are, as i’ve said, “trans” and “same-gender attraction”

[wetwareproblem]

Oh, look, the “Straights hurt us for fighting, guess it’s time to quietly assimilate” guy is also the author of this shitty chart.

And a biantagonistic, exorsexist asshole who thinks that it’s his G-d-Given Right as a Gay Man to minimize our struggles, redefine our attractions and our fucking identity, and tell us that we’re fundamentally unlovable, should we be politically inconvenient to him. Gee, I wonder why he thinks we should just quietly melt away into heteronormative society.

SIT YOUR BINARY MONOSEXUAL ASS DOWN.

We are not your possessions. You don’t get to define us, our struggles, our attractions, or our identities. You do not control this community you don’t even seem to fucking want.

I don’t know when the rule became “listen to marginalized people unless they’re inconvenient,” but it’s been a fucking bad idea every time.

[jockoppressor]

aren’t you a pedophile or a pedo apologist or something? anyway, “monosexual” isn’t a coherent class and you should be ashamed of yourself for letting it pass from your brain and onto your fingertips to type

[wetwareproblem]

No and no, but congratulations on adding “recklessly accuses transfolk of pedophilia, because that’s not literally repeating straight oppression or anything” to the pile of festering shit you’ve put together here.

And… yeah, it’s exactly as coherent as, say, “allistic” or “cis” or “goyische” or “neurotypical.” It means “people who are fucking well not us,” and in this context, it means you’ve just swerved across like three different lanes in your eagerness to lay claim to shit that does not fucking belong to you.

Your lane is over there, son. Get the fuck back in it.

[queering-the-void]

Newsflash: nonbinary people are not all non-transitional afab (which the ‘dudes attracted to nonbinary peeps and women are just reducing nonbinary people to their genitals’ assumes). A cis binary dude who is attracted to binary women and me but not other binary men is attracted to more than one gender, and is being respectful of me if he identifies as bi as a result. A cis binary woman who is attracted to binary men and me but not other binary women is attracted to more than one gender, and is being respectful of me if she identifies as bi as a result.

I am bi. I am not attracted to my own gender (because I don’t have a ‘same or similar gender’) or to binary men. I am still bi. The definition of bi doesn’t magically vary between nonbinary and binary people. (My current datemates are a girl and a nonbinary person; if I had to choose a binary gender I’d pick male, does being a Dude-ish attracted to women and nonbinary people but not men make me somehow magically transphobic?)

Also if biphobia is solely homophobia lite then please explain the numerous, numerous biphobic lesbians and gay men. Please explain the conservatives I know who’d readily accept a Proper gay man or lesbian but not one of those Horrid Bis, they might be *gasp* promiscuous!

Also please read an actual queer history book. Please. I’m begging you. The community is a stitched together mess of different groups acting in solidarity. There wasn’t a singular founding, or a singular community even.

[genderhexadecimal]

Thought about how the asexual, aromantic, and nonbinary flags all include black (and white), so I made this triangle graphic for aroace nonbinary people.

Also did one reminding people aces aros and enbies exist, because some of them seem determined to forget…

[plimsollpvnks-deactivated201909]

i’m actually really curious and looking to see the other side of this debate,

but why do you think you can be trans without dysphoria?

(don’t give me the argument “gender euphoria” bc that can only exist with gender dysphoria)

[androgynousblackbox]

Eh, no. I know a lot of stories of trans people who never even thought there was something wrong with them (aka, didn’t had dysphoria) until they started roleplaying/cosplaying as a character of another gender and realized “hey, I actually feel better this way” and when they are back on their assigned gender they just feel “this is  not horrible, though… I could probably live like this, I guess”, but then cosplay/roleplay more and go “fuck it, I like this gender better”. It’s like you have a suit and that suits fit you. It’s practical, doesn’t give you problem, you can use it just fine. But there is other fine suit and this suit it’s like someone took a cloud and made fabric out of it. This suit is a blessing and you feel so much more happy on it. That is gender euphoria. Absence of wrongness doesn’t mean imposibility of rightness… especially when talking about human minds. We are complicated fucks and you always gotta leave some room for nuance. We don’t work in absolutes. That could be all someone needs to understand their transness, wich is valid, but is not uncommon either that AFTER that they start to being able to tell exactly what kind of dysphoria, or if any, they have, because they know they are X gender but everyone is saying they are D gender and that is not a good feeling. We could argue that desire itself, and that alone, is a sign of dysphoria (wich it is), but I personally do not feel comfortable putting on other’s people mouth a word so heavily misunderstood just because it makes sense to me. To those people you could maybe educate them gently in that yes, they COULD have dysphoria if so decide to frame their experiences that way, but the point remain that they shouldn’t have to. Now, personally, why do I insist in that? Well, first of all, is not a belief as if I believe on god or not, something that nobody ever can prove without any doubt, or if pineapple can go on pizza or not, a issue that ultimately doesn’t matter because is subjective. It’s an actual fact supported by the medical community, trans activists, trans organizations and experts on the subject. I have a lot of links on my blog about this if you search #antitransmed. Here is just one of them. Is there a general age that people realize they are transgender or experience gender dysphoria? Can it happen late in life? Not all transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria and that distinction is important to keep in mind. Gender dysphoria and/or coming out as transgender can occur at any age. https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/expert-qa Another one from the same site: Gender dysphoria - as a general descriptive term refers to an individual’s discontent with the assigned gender. It is more specifically defined when used as a diagnosis.

Transgender - refers to the broad spectrum of individuals who transiently or persistently identify with a gender different from their gender at birth. (Note: the term transgendered is not generally used.) https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria Second, I find the whole “you must be this whatever to be trans” entirely ridiculous and inconsecuential. However other person defines themselves have nothing to do with me and doesn’t affect anyone but them. No, it won’t be the cause of transphobia. No, it won’t be the cause of insurance companies don’t taking transition seriously (as if they ever did in the first place?). No, they are not responsible for the ignorance of others. All of that would very much still be a thing even if no non dysphoric trans person ever came out because transphobia/cissexism would still very much be a thing.  If they identify with any gender that isn’t the one they were assigned at birth, doesn’t matter how long or new the label, doesn’t matter the reasoning behind it, for whatever is worth, they are trans. I don’t see any value into “debunk” that further, especially so openly to the point that cis people think is an okay thing to do and start calling themselves “truscums/transmed” as well.  Third, there are many factors by wich someone may not be able to recognize dysphoria on them, including, but not limited, to neurodivergency and trauma. People can have complicated relationships with their bodies and/or their brains. They still deserve a community that support them. Four, as a trans person with dysphoria, I don’t want to define my entire trans experience by dysphoria. A lot of people do not like that either. There are moments where I actually enjoy being trans, especially when I feel connected to others through that. I am grateful that I was born as I was, even if sometimes I wish I didn’t. I want to celebrate being alive while trans, not have turn that into a diagnosis, a mental illness, a neurological disorder or whatever is the popular terminology now. Other trans peope do not feel that way, that is their right and those are valid feelings, but nobody has any right to just impose it on others. Five, you shouldn’t need to present dysphoria to be able to transition. There should be more places where you only need to say “hey, I am trans, cover this thing for me?” and government should just do it, not put a hundread unnecesary obstacles and keep you awake at night with the possibility of being rejected for something you need to have. I find the whole system of depending on others to validate your existence for you rather cruel and unnecesary.  Maybe some people could regret it, that is a possibility. But I also don’t think you should make things harder so other people can’t transition just because of that tiny possibility, that, by the way, was already happening before a lot of tucutes were even born. There is never going to be a system that garantee a 100% rate of success anyway, so why pretend as if that is the only goal I don’t know. Sixth, those are just from the top of my head so have this other bunch of links explaining further and containing other arguments/experiences as well: https://transequality.org/issues/resources/frequently-asked-questions-about-transgender-people https://genderanalysis.net/2017/03/do-you-need-to-have-gender-dysphoria-to-be-transgender/ https://www.vox.com/cards/transgender-myths-fiction-facts/transgender-people-mentally-ill-myth http://letsqueerthingsup.com/2016/01/16/trauma-and-transness-why-i-didnt-always-know-i-was-transgender/

[plimsollpvnks-deactivated201909]

honestly, that was a well-constructed response and i actually agree with a lot of your points.

but with most of the points you presented, i still consider those to be valid truscum points. if someone experiences your form of gender euphoria, they probably have a form of very low functioning dysphoria.

a lot of truscum have no problem with people you describe in the post, but my personal problem lies within those that purposefully identify as trans (without experiencing your definition of gender euphoria) and do it purely because

a) to follow the “down with cis mentality”

or

b) want to be considered different and special

and believe me, i’ve seen lots of people later admit to being a part of b.

but overall, i agree with a lot of ur points man. thanks for being respectful about it.

[androgynousblackbox]

if someone experiences your form of gender euphoria, they probably have a form of very low functioning dysphoria. —–I honestly do not care. It’s not my experience, my story or my life or of anyone else but that person. It’s not my job or the job of anyone define the life of others through my/their own understanding, that may as well be completely wrong anyway. Especially if we are talking about trying to define someone through a tumblr post or a youtube video. You can never known a entire person like that and claim otherwise is just unrealistic. If they say they don’t have dysphoria, then they don’t. I have no reason to argue or believe otherwise and I am finding hard to understand how is that the issue of anyone else. but my personal problem lies within those that purposefully identify as trans (without experiencing your definition of gender euphoria) and do it purely becausea) to follow the “down with cis mentality” or b) want to be considered different and special and believe me, i’ve seen lots of people later admit to being a part of b. So? What is wrong with that? If someone claims to be trans even thought they know they are cis, and therefore KNOW they won’t ever need to do any transition of any kind, and just by claiming the label are bringing visibility to the issue… I fail to see what is the problem, like how exactly are harming anyone. Futhermore, someone that does that for only to be considered especial have some issues to work that I don’t think are going to be solved by telling them they need dysphoria to be trans. If someone is doing it because they reject cissexism in all of it’s forms or don’t find any meaning on it, then good for them, I hate that bullshit too, hope they are happy. Maybe if someone claimed to be trans in order to enter trans spaces and groom young people to then abuse them, then we can start talking about harmful attitudes but even then the problem would be this person being abusive, not trans or cis. Same thing if a cis person claimed to be trans only to openly made a mockery of trans people or validate transphobic views, but like… again, that is them being jackasses and transphobic, not about transness itself. Those last ones are usually terfs doing “satire” pages so who cares about them anyway. Don’t get me wrong, I get how it could be annoying, especially if you DO define your trans experience by dysphoria. But that is still no reason to go against non dysphoric trans people, as if they are entirely composed of your two examples and nothing else, or impose this old model of what trans should be. If you want to go against transphobes, jackasses and abusive people, go ahead, I support you. But not after people that just have a different story to tell. They haven’t done anything to deserve be excluded of their own community.

[kwrpwr]

@all truscum: you don’t get to change someone else’s narrative by saying “well, you probably DO have dysphoria; you just don’t realize it!” that’s not your place at all. and really, if you have to rewrite other people’s narratives to fit your worldview, then there’s something wrong with your worldview.

[queering-the-void]

Personal experience time!

I didn't used to have dysphoria. However, as a smol bean (like preschool-kindergarten-early grades) I considered myself a boy. I tried to use the boys bathroom, I thought girls were that weird mixture of pretty and icky, I had mostly male friends, I wanted to wear the boys uniform not the girls, I played boy games, I'd wear boys clothes (unless I had something sparkly in girls clothes, I liked sparkly). But I didn't consider my body at all wrong, and when people called me a girl I just got confused because I obviously wasn't. (The intersection of autism and transness can get a bit weird). Then in middle school I considered myself neither, heavily identified with a fictional alien who used itself pronouns and said it'd be rude to use gendered pronouns on it than to call it 'it', wanted to sing baritone in chorus and was proud of my deep voice at the same time as being proud of my developing feminine body, then I considered myself female for a while, then boy again, then in college I joined a queer+ally frat, heard the words genderqueer and genderfluid for the first time and realized those were me. I didn't start experiencing dysphoria until I'd identified as not-entirely-and-solely-female for fifteen long years. I still don't always experience dysphoria, even on boy days. I don't even always experience euphoria, most days I just... Know. Like, people have self knowledge! That can include current gender!

Tl;dr: I, a certified Dysphoric Trans, didn't develop dysphoria until I'd been identifying as a not-girl for fifteen years. There's more than one way to be trans/nonbinary/genderqueer, and that's awesome!

[nonbinarypastels]

Glossary Page

This is a glossary of different gender + orientation terms that may be helpful for people who are questioning, as well as terms that are frequently used on this blog and in LGBTQIA+ discussions that you may want to know the definition to. If you’re looking for a specific term please press CTRL + F and type it in, and if the term you’re looking for is not in this glossary then feel free to send me an ask and I’ll give you the definition. If anyone sees any terms that are missing from this glossary or if any of the definitions here are incorrect or need to be modified, please feel free to send me an ask about that as well! Also if you (or someone you know) coined any of these terms and want to be credited, I’m 100% willing to do so too!

Last Updated: April 13, 2018

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[otherkinlogic]

whew ok i made a powerpoint thing for nounself pronouns…..

i’ve really been wanting to try and help others understand these pronouns? so i made this ah!! i hope it can help. if anyone has questions, feel free to send me a message and ask. 

[infiniteglitterfall]

you know what always gets me about nounself pronouns? the way that some trans people will attack them for being weird, and unnecessary, and something that will supposedly make cis people think trans people are all fake… but then totally accept pronouns like xie, per, aer, and ze. because they don’t see a reason to be wildly ableist and ridiculous about them. it has zero to do with how understandable or common the terms are.

Anyway, @rivergst did a transcription!

Transcription:

nounself pronouns and how to use them

by otherkinlogic/vulpinekin/roborenard

b/c everyone keeps complaining about these pronouns/ asking how they work and it needs to stop

with unironic comic sans bc it’s helpful for dyslexics

what are nounself pronouns??

* nounself pronouns are “newer” pronouns that replace traditional binary ones such as he/him and she/her

* nounself pronouns may also be called neopronouns, non-binary pronouns, or otherkin pronouns

* they are very useful for anyone who is uncomfortable with the more traditional pronouns and the gender binary that goes along with them

so how do they work??

* to make a set of nounself pronouns, you first need a noun! i will be working with the noun “bunny” or “bun,” which are a very common set of pronouns.

* the pronouns need to be set into 4 different categories- personal/subject, possessive, reflexive, and object pronouns

subject/personal pronouns

* personal pronouns are pronouns to *represent* something. traditional examples of personal pronouns are he, she, it, and they.

* an example sentence would be, “he walks around.”

* for our nounself pronoun “bunny,” the personal form will be “bun.”

* example sentence, “bun walks around.”

possessive pronouns

* possessive pronouns are pronouns to show the *possession* or *relationship* of two or more items. examples of traditional possessive pronouns would be his, hers, its, or theirs.

* traditional example sentence, “that is his hat.”

* for our nounself pronouns, the possessive form will be “buns.”

* “that is buns hat.”

reflexive pronouns

* reflexive pronouns are used to show when *something is done* by a noun/another pronoun *to itself*. examples: himself, herself, itself, themselves

* “rowan likes himself”

* with nounself pronouns, you can usually just take the noun and add -self to the end. reflexive form of “bun” would be “bunself”

* “rowan likes bunself”

object pronouns

* object pronouns are pronouns used alongside verbs to show *who or what the action is being done by/to*. traditional examples: him, her, it, them.

* “i hugged him.”

* for the bunself pronouns, the object form is “bun.”

* “i hugged bun.”

now, how do you write it all out?

* usually, pronouns are put in the form of personal/possessive/object/reflexive.

* he/his/him/himself for example

* with the bun pronouns, it will be set as bun/buns/bun/bunself

* if you’re confused by someone’s pronoun set, ask for some example sentences!

i don’t support these pronouns, but i’m able to learn them. can i use auxiliary1️⃣️ pronouns instead?

* no

* definitely not

* this is intentional pronoun misuse

* it’s very rude, disgusting, and transphobic

* you are intentionally making another living thing uncomfortable by refusing to learn 4 new words. that’s very disappointing

1️⃣️ auxiliary pronouns are a secondary pronoun set that can be used if you are unable to understand/ use nounself pronouns!

i’m neurodivergent/ english is my second language/ disabled. can i use the auxiliary pronouns?

* yes! definitely!

* it is totally understandable to not be able to understand these pronouns. they can be difficult for anyone.

* if someone does not have their auxiliary pronouns listed, ask them for these pronouns! chances are, they are more than happy to show you.

[zorilleerrant]

uh, hey, just to let you know, if you’re claiming to be attracted to women, you’re fetishizing and you’re a misogynist because, like, do you think all women look the same??? oh, you saw one in a catalog once and went, every woman looks like her??? you saw some chick in your comic book, and you were like, oh, I like her personality??? uh, news flash, not all women have the same personality, and, actually, women are people, and they’re different, so you can’t just claim to be attracted to them, duh. like, they don’t look the same, they don’t act the same, they don’t like the same things, they don’t interact with you the same way, what are you even saying you like about women huh??? and what do you call it when you say all women are exactly the same??? oh, yeah!!! you mean you’re attracted to Hollywood-typical-white-women-with-medium-sized-breasts-who-are-quiet-but-really-passionate-about-knitting-and-reading-and-are-friendly-but-take-a-while-to-become-really-good-friends-with-someone-and-like-dogs-a-lot-who-are-willing-to-go-rock-climbing-with-you-and-hate-coffee, not women

[fuckyeasafety]

This is so gross and bad and wrong.

Nb is an umbrella term and woman isn’t. This is not that hard.

[zorilleerrant]

It really is, though; it covers a wide variety of social positions and life experiences, and the only reason that people treat a group of people that’s approximately half the population as a single category is a shared myth we participate in that all women somehow have something in common.

[thevelveteendork-deactivated201]

Pre-hrt trans girls: 😍😍❤❤ No hrt trans girls: 😍😍❤❤ Trans girls on hrt: 😍😍❤❤ Trans girls in general: 😍😍😍😍😍❤❤❤💕💕💕

[vulpixtrans]

u know its really not hard to say “i used to identify as ace/bi/trans and later decided the label didnt fit me” instead of “i used to be ace/bi/trans because ‘ace/bi/trans tumblr’ made me think i had to be so i can speak over your experiences as a ace/bi/trans person”

[mr-spilled-tea]

Except I literally believed that I was gender fluid for months before realizing how bs that was, only because of what Tumblr was spouting at me.

[listeningboy]

So… You used to identify as genderfluid before deciding the label didn’t fit you. That’s all you need to say. You can shut up after that. Please. Shut up.

[mr-spilled-tea]

No. I’m saying that Tumblr’s misimformative “millions of genders” attitude confuses people unnecessarily.

[listeningboy]

-You were confused

-You thought you were genderfluid

-You decided the label didn’t fit

-Now shut up

[rationalsjdiscussions]

In case people are confused, the reason that this mentality is so wrong is the fact that these identities are real, they’re valid, and they help countless people. People trying labels and deciding they don’t work is not the fault of, uh… Marginalized communities.

You guys just like to repaint the bi, trans and ace communities as Actually Privileged Somehow.

[queering-the-void]

Like, when I was a kid I thought I was a boy, then I thought I was Something Else, then I thought I’d been imagining it all, then finally I realized I was genderfluid. Does that mean boys don’t exist, since I was wrong about being one?

[suprisingly-still-here]

Saw this and wanted to share it, because stop shipping celebrities, when they tell you to stop. It makes them uncomfortable and as you see it doesnt end well.

[rookiewithachance]

If being shipped with your friend ruins your relationship with that person, you’re the problem. If someone implying you’re gay or dating one of your friends bothers you to this degree, that’s homophobic. Or at the very least, just kinda shitty

[yin-seal-sakura]

No that’s really not the way it works. If a REAL LIFE PERSON says to stop shipping them with somene else, especially one of their close friends you should respect that wish. Would you want someone to do that to you or someone you care about? Pushing to be with someone you or they have no romantic interest in? It’s not homophobic to not want people shipping you with your best friend. For fucks sake this is what the internet and tumblr especially has become. If you’re not attracted to the same sex and aren’t comfortable with people thinking you’re in a homosexual relationship you’re automatically homophobic! Lord knows that if this were the internet shipping a homosexual person with someone of the opposite sex losing people would lose their minds ‘stop shipping this person in a straight ship when they’re not straight!’ Well stop shipping a straight person in a gay ship. The internet is full of hypocrites. This has nothing to do with the lgbt community. It has to do with respecting real people and their relationships.

I can’t believe the sheer amount of people who think that this is ok. To completely disregard the feelings of REAL people. “Fuck what these LIVING BREATHING people say! I know who they are better than them! I don’t care how they feel on the matter. I’ll continue no matter how uncomfortable they feel about me shipping them with people they aren’t attracted to.” Don’t even get me started on the ones who are so totally convinced of their shipping/headcanons. They completely deny anything that contradicts what they think. There are larry fans that actually think that louise’s and harry’s s/o’s are just cover ups for their relationship with each other. It’s not ok to ship real life people. It’s not ok to make up headcanons about real life people. It’s creepy. The only exception to the shipping is if they are already in a romantic relationship and even then there are limits. These people are not dolls for the internet to play make believe with. They are living human beings and should be given respect for their private lives.

[queering-the-void]

I’ve had friends shipping me with a guy friend of mine ruin a friendship. Don’t do this, unless someone has explicitly said they’re fine with it. Especially don’t send people your fanfic of them, or mention that you ship them. It’s okay to have fantasies, but if they involve real people, keep them away from those people!