okay. some of you must surely be getting tired of seeing me say this but i literally cannot help myself- THAT IS AN ICE AGE GOAT. THAT CAN GET TO BE 800lbs BIG.
we called them musk-ox because we thought they must be some kind of cow thing, but they are actually a goat thing; this is to a normal wild goat what a woolly mammoth is to a normal elephant, only these things survived.
and i absolutely cannot help myself because of the tizzy my brain goes into over the twin facts of
1: ice-age megafauna that is still alive! and
2: EIGHT HUNDRED POUND GOAT
you can see the goatishness a little more in their babies
i just, i am crazy over the fact that these guys are still alive on our planet
So I was scrolling through the ATLA tag when I started to think about why I don't like the post-100 Year War content. It's mostly has to do with the treatment of those who disagree with Zuko's rule as they are treated as nothing but Ozai supporters.
Do I think some of them want Ozai back on the throne, yes absolutely, but there is so much more going on in the Fire Nation that would make the citizens question following Zuko.
The end of the war
I think most citizens would be pleased that the war ended but less so with the outcome. The Fire Nation had been winning the war and then all of a sudden it's over without the Fire Nation ruling the world or even declairing victory. To many who lost people in the war this could be seen as those sacrifices which were supposed to be for the glory of the nation became in vain. Their entire lives all they had known was war and now its over with no victory or honor just shame.
There is an uncertainity of what will happen in the future. Some may even want the war back because it's easier than facing the unknown of peace.
Economy
The Fire Nation has a war economy, it may have not have started off that way but after 100 years it absolutely is one. Most adults are within the military. Most of their manufacturing power goes to weapons and war items. What do you do when all the soldiers that were fighting return home. It's clear that within the Fire Nation there wasn't a shortage of labor so how are all these people going to be employed. Not to mention there will be a loss in jobs that no longer had the resources to exist or were just for the war.
The Fire Nation cities are going to end up overcrowded with people looking for work. Disease will run rampant with so many people stuck in a small area and with the pollution that had been released due to the factories. The unemployed people won't be able to afford medicine and there may not even be enough of it around if they could.
The rest of the world would likely demand recapents from the Fire Nation for the harm it has caused the other nations. This will likely be money or resources though some nations and their leaders may not want anything from the Fire Nation. That is taking away resources and money from the people of the Fire Nation when they feel that it is needed and they shouldn't have to pay since they should have won. This isn't even including the whole issue with the colonies.
Humanitarian aid or rebuilding projects for the other Nations could employ Fire Nation citizens but it also opens up a whole other issues. Would there be a way to protect those workers from abuse? Would people even sign up for it? Is there a way to do it without it looking like a form of imperialism? Is there a way to convince the citizens that it is a good idea and won't take further resources from the citizens?
There is also the fact that it is likely that the Fire Nation relied on the colonies and conquered land for resources like agricultural products and metal ore. This could lead to famines around the Fire Nation as polluted islands struggle to get enough food for everyone to eat. Factories could also run into shortages of resources leading to them having to close causing more people to become unemployed and also a possibility of shortages for items and depending on what those items are it could be a major issue such as with medicine. Though it could also cause issues if it's a quality of like item.
Would the Fire Nation citizens actually want to follow Zuko?
As cute as the idea that the citizens all love Zuko is, it isn't really that realistic. We see throughout ATLA how strong the propaganda is in the Fire Nation. Ozai would be a fool if he didn't place propaganda against Zuko after his banishment.
Ozai could have done that one of two ways. The first one is to not say any reason for the banishment. Let the people think up a reason for Zuko to be banished (I think this is the most likely action as no one really seems to know the reason for the Agni Kai besides those in the War Room). The other one is to twist Zuho's actions. Make it seem like Zuko doubted and dishonored the brave soldiers fighting for their nation. Paint Zuko as a coward who wants his nation to abandon the fight. So that way if someone (Iroh) said what Zuko did they would look sympathetic or appreciative o Zuko's actions.
Also, let's look at what Zuko's redemption arc looked like to the regular citizens of the Fire Nation. Zuko was banished and given an impossible but necessary mission. He kills the Avatar and returns to the Fire Nation as a hero. On the same day that the Avatar is revealed to actually be alive and leading a military invasion against the capital (the day fire benders lose their bending) Zuko vanishes and is declaired a traitor. Then he returns to the Fire Nation with a water bender and challenges Azula for the throne. Now he is the leader of the Fire Nation and has ended the war with no victory for the Fire Nation. This looks really suspicious for Zuko. Citizens may think he sold the Fire Nation for the throne or is a puppet ruler for the Avatar to control. Considering all the struggles and challenges the Fire Nation is going to face it makes sense for the citizens to question if Zuko really has their interests in mind. Not to mention having a 16 year old run your country is a worrying thought without questioning his loyalty.
There is also the issue of the Agni Kai itself. We are given so little information about the rules of it that depending on which way you read it depends on who actually won.
Sceneros 1 and 2 Azula won. The first one, as soon as Katara stepped out into the impromptue arena she disqualified Zuko. Meaning that regardless of what happens afterwards Azula should be Fire Lord. The second one is that Azula was in the right to attack Katara as she was a threat to the Agni Kai. In which case Azula won as soon as she struck Zuko with lightning, making her the rightful Fire Lord.
Scenero 3 Zuko won. That Azula was in the wrong for attacking a non-fire bender without her throwing the first attack. So Azula would have been disqualified meaning Zuko is the rightful Fire Lord.
Not to mention there is an issue of observers. The other two Agni Kai's that we see had plenty of observers where as the one between Zuho and Azula really didn't. It's odd considering how important that one is. Instead the Fire Sages just ran off with it being unclear if they had even watched. This leaves only Katara as the for sure observer of the Agni Kai but her voice really shouldn't mean much in the outcome as she isn't a Fire Nation citizen and she is clearly biased towards Zuko.
Over all, this places the Agni Kai into a grey area depending on what you think the rules are. Not to mention the fact that a different Fire Sage crowned Zuko than almost crowned Azula. Of course, this could mean anything from Azula having banished some of the Fire Sages to some of them getting stripped of rank. Or a possible disagreement over whether they should crown Zuko. Not that Azula would be a good choice as Fire Lord after her breakdown.
Few of these reasons aren't really Zuko's fault but what he inherited but the citizens aren't likely to give him grace as he is messing with their way of life. Changing a nation is hardly easy or simple. Yet the post war content tries to make it seem that way. Instead of thinking about the way the people would react. They made any who disagree with Zuko to be people who just want Ozai back on the throne. There is no deeper meaning to their rebellion. (Maybe they did delve into this once I stopped looking at the comics but I doubt it)
What did Bryke say about Katara and ships? Sorry, I’m relatively new to the ATLA fandom so I don’t know much about the discourse.
No need to apologize! There are a lot of new fans and a lot of people who simply wouldn’t have been aware of things like videos showed at cons over a decade ago, so it’s a very valid question!
If you go to youtube and search ‘avatar book 4 air sdcc’ (I say this bc tumblr is shitty with links in posts), what will come up is a video that Bryke (the atla showrunners, Michael and Bryan) showed at San Diego Comic Con in 2008, after book 3 aired. The video is made up of a bunch of fanart they were sent over the years by fans who loved their show--a lot of those fans being pre-teen and teenage girls--and they used this fanart to relentlessly mock a huge chunk of their own fanbase for nearly three minutes, in particular the ones who sent them that fanart in the first place. They not only mocked Zuko and Katara as characters and the relationship they would have (nothing they had the characters say in the video was remotely in character, given their relationship at the end of the show), but they mocked everyone who shipped it.
Specifically, they had ‘Sokka’ (aka someone’s fanart of Sokka) say ‘Women who ship zutara will forever have doomed relationships.’ And then they had a word graphic that said ‘Thanks for all the fanart over the years!’ Except then ‘all’ was crossed out and replaced with ‘some’, and then ‘some’ crossed out and replaced with ‘most’, to raucous laughter and applause. Because of course, they were thankful for art that hadn’t come from girls who dared to ship something they didn’t like lmfao.
(They also threw in a slut-shaming potshot at Tokka shippers for good measure. Because the video wasn’t gross enough.)
These grown men decided to take fanart sent to them by young fans of their show and use it to mock and belittle them, and then claim that everyone, specifically women, who shipped something they didn’t like would have ‘doomed relationships’. Four years later, Bryan shared this video on his tumblr, along with a transcript of the definition of the word ‘joke’, as if being a joke somehow takes away from the fact that he was mocking his own fanbase with grossly misogynistic rhetoric and expecting other people to laugh along with him.
So yeah. That’s why a lot of us hate Bryke as people, quite apart from being pissed at their crappy writing decisions. Not only did they laugh at a big portion of their fanbase, they encouraged the rest of the fandom to join in, essentially declaring open season on zutara shippers by the entire rest of the fanbase. I won’t say this is single-handedly the reason for the atla fandom’s overall toxicity, but it was definitely a contributing factor.
It makes sense that Toph wouldn’t pick up on Azula’s lie because she’s such a habitual liar that it probably doesn’t elicit any physical guilt response, but if we’re going by how polygraphs work in real life it should also theoretically be possible to make Toph think you’re lying if you’re telling the truth and you’re feeling guilty about something else or just really nervous.
But I get that that’s not as fun to write in fanfics as 100% accurate lie detection.
In my opinion, Ty Lee would have been a more believable love interest for Zuko than Mai. He’s a theatre kid, she’s a circus freak. She’s playful and quirky and chaotic like Jin and Katara. Her character arc could just as easily be about standing up to Azula while having more to her personality than hating everything except Zuko. Shes more *dynamic* than Mai, in more ways than I can explain…
"I love Zuko more than I fear you" also sounds way more natural and impactful coming out of Ty Lee than Mai, who was never really shown to be afraid of Azula. The opposite, in fact ("She can shoot all the lightning she wants at me. I'm not going into that wall sludge juice.", anyone?). Also, that bit in The Beach where she can immediately tell there's something off with Zuko when he burns the portrait of his family, and is like "I know you"? Adorbs.
I'd argue Mai showing her willingness to stand up to Azula earlier helps make the Boiling Rock scene work so well. It's *set up*. She's been shown to push back about minor things, yet not take the direct opposition. We also know for Mai that those she loves matter. Her intro episode has her squaring off against the avatar&co to get her little brother back, despite her Blasé attitude there are morals underneath. (This is also why she can Zuko resonate with each other. Much of his arc is him getting to where Mai already is, albeit from a much deeper hole)
Boiling Rock was the first time it was Zuko vs Azula in a live/die scenario. Mai choosing Zuko not only does love vs fear but also has 'She picked Zuko over me, just like mommy did!' Azula being aware of the dynamic and miscalculating was crucial to prompting her breakdown. Meanwhile Ty Lee works perfectly as the one-two punch(literally) because it was *unexpected*. She didn't have a dog in the fight. She responded on pure instinct to save a friend. Ty Lee isn't calculating like Mai, her sudden betrayal showed that Azula had failed to understand both the Mind(Mai) and heart(Ty Lee).
Having the heart betray her first would be more shocking, but it would have been impulse instead of failed calculus and we would have had little reason for Mai to follow up.
It took me a few minutes but I think I figured out why this hit me the way it did!
Ty fits better from the watsonian perspective, she is actively fearful and more willing to show emotion, her rebellion feels more natural because she is more active and acknowledges others emotions in a more open way.
But from the doylist, we have the whole heart vs mind symbolism, and how it reflects Zuko’s large character ark regarding using his head and moving away from heavily emotional reactions in favor of thinking before acting.
I currently have less sleep than I should so if this is nonsense just ignore it.
See I think everyone here is making great points, but I’d like to add that from a Doylist perspective Ty Lee probably wouldn’t have worked as a love interest for early S3 Zuko BECAUSE of their compatible outlooks. One of the narrative functions of the Maiko relationship was to keep Zuko conflicted, and Mai is positioned as an obstacle to his redemption because she seems so resistant to fighting back against the status quo. Ty Lee, in contrast, was basically drafted into Azula’s group against her will, and she seems way more primed to listen to Zuko’s internal conflict. A universe where Zuko starts dating Ty Lee is one where both almost certainly decide the Fire Nation is evil way earlier—which would completely alter Zuko’s redemption arc.
IMO the biggest issue with Maiko is that the narrative switches from positioning it as an unhealthy relationship that keeps Zuko from his redemption and suddenly makes it endgame with next to no change in their dynamic. As a dysfunctional teen romance it works very well; as an endgame pairing, it pales in comparison to Ty Luko.
Bryke: The girl with the abandonment issues got together with the boy with the running away problem and stopped speaking to her best friend who stuck with her no matter what. Then her friend, who is driven entirely by passionate emotion, got together with the girl who epitomizes emotional repression. The girl who is bored to tears by Fire Nation court life became Firelady and was forced to repress her emotions for the rest of her life alongside the boy who left her behind instead of getting with the girl who chose to save her. The boy with the running away issue ended up with someone who enables his worst impulses and who idolizes him for something he never wanted to be, rather the girl who would be his equal and who never saw him as anything more than another kid. This is such a happy ending.
Me, pulling up an empty Word document: …Fuck that.
I was reading a fic that had Zuko encouraging Katara to use her blood bending in less violent ways so she’d be more comfortable with/accepting of it and basically he was cooking and wanted her to get the blood out of the meat (I think?? It’s been a minute). And I love the idea of that. I always felt like it could be so useful, and not just this horrifying tool. So new headcannon unlocked
Edit: the fic is I’m Still Here by owedbetter on AO3😁
I'm not too much of a Zutara shipper, haven't been since like junior high, not much into shipping in general.
BUT THIS FIC
Listen to me, as long as you're not mentally 10 and super invested in some pointless shipping war, you're gonna enjoy it. Love it even. I read it first a looong while ago and I recently remembered about it, went waaay out of my way to find it because I didn't remember neither the title, nor author, but I did find it and it remains one of the best writted fics I've read. The plot, the pacing, the romantic part (which I don't unusually enjoy too much)- it's all perfect. Delicious. 11/10 experience.
"Its been 20 years get over it" actually its been less than a month since bryke's latest display of their blatant misogyny, but go off i guess! Telling a bunch of women to "get over" two white men who are prominent and influential in their industry popping out with a brand new woman hating narrative every few years is bold to say the least, and telling us that we're being hysterical when we are bothered by people eating up said misogynist storytelling and calling it "perfect" is taking that a step further. Take a women's studies class, for the love of God
What do I love about Bryke's blatant insecurity always ensuring that Katara and Zuko never speak or interact? It's that you can make them say or do almost anything together and there's no canon evidence to contradict it.
Want to say Zuko and Katara enter dance competitions together twice a year? Nothing says they didn’t.
Zuko and Katara sneak out, get drunk and swap dirty jokes whenever they meet? Yea that absolutely happens.
Katara and Zuko are doing a rewrite of Love Amongst Dragons together via multiple letters a week? Totally plausible.
I think that's what I love about the cheating fics/headcanons coming out in retaliation to the outpouring of violent hate from kataang shippers. It threads the loophole in Bryke's insecurity so perfectly that there's no defense other than 'Katara/Zuko would never' and even that barely holds water because, how do we know?
There is nothing in canon you can point to, to solidly contradict it. The narrative gives us everything we need to make it work too. Zuko is still single, Aang is canonically gone for long periods of time. We have no idea what Katara and Zuko talk about or how they interact except they're being shown to act exactly the way two people in a secret relationship do. Don't touch, don't talk, don't even look at each other, in case someone figures it out'
First Bryke tried to make Zutara impossible and then the kataangs mocked trying to instigate more hate. Instead they've somehow created a monster they can't get ahead of and it's breaking their canon.
There was an artwork of the Gaang watching the bisons playing in the air.
Does anybody else ever wonder if Toph ever feels sad and left out during these kinds of moments? Likeeee,,, maybe she could feel them getting excited and she lowkey gets frustrated for not being able to relate to it?
I'd like to think that if she did, Zuko would be the first to notice because he's the most perceptive in the group (shoutout to Uncle Iroh's fantastic parenting) and he tries his best to include her by narrating to her what they're seeing. Just like how he said, "He's actually flying." directly to her when they were watching Tagah and Aang fly from the airship because he knew Toph couldn't see the scene.
Don't mind me, I'm just gonna go cry at some corner.
The concept of Katara and Zuko teaming up as the Painted Lady and the Blue Spirit and then the big reveal that they're enemies in the Crystal Catacombs
I haven’t watched the leaked AtLA movie, and there are plenty of reasons why people might decide to wait to watch the new movie until when it officially releases in October. Me? Well, from the screencaps and gif sets I’ve seen, I’ve noticed something incredibly important is missing - Zuko’s lightning scar! There have been claims that the leaked version isn’t 100% complete, so obviously if I wait until October to watch it the final version of the movie will have Zuko’s lightning scar in its full glory, right? …right?
But seriously where is Zuko’s lightning scar? At best, it was a careless mistake, but at worst it was a purposeful decision to erase the physical representation of the culmination of Zuko’s character arc. Why would you choose to erase Zuko’s big hero moment??
After all, from pictures, I know adult Aang still has his lightning scar, and his scar was treated with Spirit Water (!!) and weeks of intensive healing by Katara. If Aang still has his lightning scar after all that, then adult Zuko should absolutely have his too. Aang and Zuko are supposed to be lightning scar buddies!
But hey, the leaked version isn’t the final version supposedly. Zuko’s lightning scar will definitely be there in the final release (a girl can dream…). In the mean time, I’ll be enjoying all the wonderful new fanart available, where luckily many artists do remember Zuko’s lightning scar.
(Disclaimer: I did not draw the Zuko here, it’s official art it is not official art! I have been corrected it - it's by Natandraw Instagram, Twitter) #WhereIsZukosLightningScar
writing advice for characters with a missing eye: dear God does losing an eyes function fuck up your neck. Ever since mine crapped out I've been slowly and unconsciously shifting towards holding my head at an angle to put the good eye closer to the center. and human necks. are not meant to accommodate that sorta thing.
other things I'm bitching about but which could still be useful as writing advice for 1 eyed characters:
2. they're going to favor their sighted side, obviously, but it doesn't always manifest in the way you think. when I walk down a hall I walk much closer to the wall on my sighted side than on my blind side. which is the opposite of how it might seem logical to do that bc it means the world at large is on your bad side, but the reason is I can't fucking See the wall if it's right next to me in the blind side and I end up knocking into it.
3. door frames and poles are my enemy. If your character is smart this will not be a problem but for me it is. I am King of walking into shit I could absolutely see but couldn't tell how far away from me it was. on this note, their blind side hand is getting bashed into every jutting out thing in a 5 mile radius.
4. having 0 depth perception is less of a big deal than you'd think it is. Especially with driving. I've become a Much safer and more wary driver because I can't tell how far the other cars are from me. however I fucking suck at parking now. because I can't tell how far the lines are from me either.
5. you know how people who lose limbs get phantom pains? that happens with eyes too but like. phantom sights. for me it's like. a lot of bugs. like every so often my brain will just put something suddenly skittering beside me there. hate that.
6. it is completely possible to "get stuck" somewhere because your ability to tell how wide a space is is just Gone. shopping isles especially where bumping something or Someone is matter of embarrassment or potentially breaking something. it can be legitimately paralyzing and also irritate everyone around you because they can tell there is Plenty of space for you to get your cart through even if you can't.
7. if the eye is still in their skull it can still be the normal kind of painful. Glares off of shiny surfaces causing weird sharp pains you can't figure out the cause of are genuinely one of gods greatest tests of my patience.
I too am missing my eye and have advice. But first:
OP I've been missing my eye for 18 years and because of you I'm just now noticing that my neck does in fact list left. Now I will live with that knowledge forever.
1) depth perception issues are more severe if you lose the eye on the same side as your dominant hand. I lost my left eye and am right handed, and only have problems with close-up things. Like pouring water or threading a needle. Sometimes putting the pump in for gas. Walking down stairs is a huge problem I have (walking up is fine), but unlike OP I don't have issues with doorways. Depth perception is different for everyone
2) I've completely lost my eye and need to wear eye patches, no fake eye here. People like me do still rub their "eyes." We also usually say "eyes" and "contacts." Except for comedic effect
3) the people that are in your life with regularity just... forget you have only one eye. Even if, like me, you wear obvious eye patches. This means they get confused when people asked what happened. They'll walk on your blind side and get snippy when you run into them. When my sister learned how to cross her eyes she ask me if I could do it, and it took so much coaching for her understand why my answer was no, and that I would not be "just trying." So don't write everyone around them constantly noticing. Most people don't
I keep hearing that Mai would've been a politically good choice for Zuko as his Fire Lady. But after rewatching The Boiling Rock, I want to dispute that, not just because of Mai's personality but also due to her family and connections.
Obviously there's her father who was the governor of Omashu, a valuable kingdom that has a very significant leader and ally at its head. Now King Bumi is a friend of Iroh, and Mai's father at least didn't seem cruel who singled people out to mete out punishments on them, unlike Mai's uncle. (Another thing worth noting is that Omashu contained mostly civilians, not world leaders. Which brings me to my next point.) In The Boiling Rock we're introduced to Mai's own uncle who is the Warden of the prison. We see he's cruel and vile. If Zuko marries Mai, he will gain that man as his uncle-in-law. We also learn that many of the leaders of the other side were imprisoned in the boiling rock prison and were subjected to the Warden's cruelty, including Hakoda, the Chief of Southern Water Tribe, and Suki, leader of the Kyoshi Warriors and future wife of the next Southern Chief. I don't imagine any of them would like Zuko marrying that man's niece. Zuko was supposed to be different from the other fire lords that came before him, this marriage will make them distrust him or at least worry about the influence Mai and her family would have over him.
And whatever potential allies Zuko would find in the fire nation who would've supported him, he would alienate them if he married a daughter of the family that's so involved and central to Ozai's regime. The people Zuko would please with this marriage aren't worth pleasing, because those are the people who would oppose his changes. He'll never actually make them happy. He may even have to worry about them joining in overthrowing him to place Mai's child on the throne. And what kind of mother will his heir be raised by?
Mai's personality doesn't help either. She doesn't believe in his ideology nor does she support him in this. She made it very clear that she thinks Zuko is a traitor for turning against Ozai and Azula and fire nation supremacy. In this very episode at that. Mai also isn't the type to hold back in public from expressing her disagreement or distaste for something. I can only imagine her making dry, sarcastic comments in meetings with Zuko's advisors, making a mock of Zuko's reforms. She won't show herself having Zuko's back and that would make Zuko's situation more and more difficult.
For an episode that famously contains the line "I love Zuko more than I fear you", The Boiling Rock actually establishes Mai more as the worst choice for Zuko as his endgame than her as the best choice.
At this point, Katara is actually a better political choice. Even if the nobles within the fire nation would dislike this match, I think internationally it will be a success. All the other world leaders may trust him more. Katara is also someone who will support Zuko and his policies and, who also wants to change the fire nation and better the world. So the royal couple will look more united.
It kinda floors me that some people think "keep racists happy" is a sound political stance as long as they can pretend it doesn't affect Katara. If Zuko chose a fire lady who would keep the imperialists happy, zutara antis have this idea that Katara would then get to be safe in the North Pole, but she wouldn't. Not as long as the thought process is "keep the racists happy."
"Katara would meet with a lot of opposition as fire lady."
Katara has, and will meet with a lot of opposition for existing and daring to want justice. That doesn't mean she should stop doing it. There is no "we'll be fine as long as we don't get involved." That kind of thinking is rooted in conservative ideology.
"Zuko would've chosen Aa.ng over Katara"? I raise to you "Zuko would've chosen even Momo over Katara", because why stop there?
Now, if we are being serious, Zuko chose Katara over Suki when those rocks were falling. Zuko chose Katara over A.ang in TSR case. Zuko chose Katara to fight against Azula over Toph, Suki and Sokka. And Zuko chose Katara over his own life. All canon, btw.
