title

idk

[only-cat-memes]

[cheecats]

On my third read through of @whatlurksbean, this time dragging my two dear friends along to watch their hearts break like mine did >:))

These two are the crowd favourites of course! <3

[comicstournament]

Tusk VS Sturgeon

Tusk

Sturgeon

Voting ended onMar 18

I know I shouldn’t be too biased but listen to me listen to me. Finale with Tusk Hake and Ray….

[comicstournament]

Hake VS Kelp

Hake

Kelp

Voting ended onMar 18

Fight your mama Hake

[capitalism-and-analytics]

[tzimiscelord]

Without the goverment, who will help those in need?

[captainjonnitkessler]

Okay, the notes on this are giving me hives and I am seriously concerned about the absolute lack of critical thinking present, so some things about this from a union electrical worker who works a city contract:

1) Are those stairs up to code?

Just by looking at them: no. Open risers are a tripping hazard, I don’t see any tread grips so they’ll become a death trap in wet conditions, and those treads don’t look thick enough, supported enough, or even level. But hey, maybe it’s just a bad photo. But how far do the railing support posts go underground? Are they below the frost line? Were they properly supported in concrete? Was the concrete prepared right and given enough time to cure properly? Is the wood properly treated for weather resistance? Did he take into account the ground shifting on such a steep grade?

Even IF he did all that and the stairs were 100% up to code, the city has no way to verify that. So no, the city can’t just leave them there.

2) Who cares if the steps are up to code?

I saw a concerning amount of this in the notes. I thought we were all on the same page re: Cities have a moral obligation to make sure their structures aren’t deathtraps waiting to happen, and that’s what codes are for. I promise you, you WANT buildings and structures to follow codes and regulations. But in any case, they definitely have a legal obligation for it, so if they leave those stairs up on public land and someone trips, the city could be on the hook for millions in damages. So no, the city can’t just leave them there.

3) There’s no way stairs cost that much, it’s just the city stuffing its pockets:

$65,000 definitely seems on the steep side to me, and I’d want to see a breakdown of expenditure. But I also don’t know the scope of the project. For a set of stairs like the ones above? Yeah, that’s a lot. To excavate the entire grade and put in a concrete structure that includes stairs, an ADA compliant ramp, and good quality weather resistant material? That sounds more reasonable.

But the city also likely needs to have the following: a ground survey of the build site, architects to draw the plans, civil engineers to OK the plans, and the contractors - typically union, and therefore more expensive - to excavate and then build the structure. All of those steps are going to take a LOT of people and a LOT of time and therefore, a LOT of money.

4) Labor doesn’t cost that much, someone is just giving the job to his contractor buddy who’s inflating the price:

Labor does cost that much. Stop telling people to unionize and demand the value of their labor and then getting mad when people do it.

Anyway, in my city at least, contracts are done by blind bid and the lowest bid wins. Under most circumstances, my city legally cannot take a higher bidder, explicitly to prevent the above circumstance.

TL;DR:

“Local man puts up steps” is NOT a safe solution to this problem, the city legally and morally cannot let an unsafe structure stand, even simple construction is complicated and expensive as hell, and acting like the city could have done this for $500 is ridiculously out of touch.

[november-narwhal]

Building and egress codes are /literally/ written in blood just like so many other protections, we take that shit seriously.

[girlbossjodiarias]

A whole fucking condo collapsed can y'all please take safe construction seriously?

[hating-alison-ashley]

So glad this response was added. I hate the original take. Written in blood is absolutely true.

[catsforeverandever]

Ditto. Just looking at those steps I thought “I wouldn’t risk walking up them.”

[talking-fox-actual-deactivated2]

How do you feel about Americans?

Americans have one of the highest obesity rates in the world, yet they hold the most Olympic medals. They have a horrible education system, yet eclipse the rest of the world in scientific research. The country is filled with clueless philistines, yet their culture permeates every society, in some way, across the planet. The country is still less than three centuries old, but has spent most of it at war. They are universally hated or feared by nearly every other country on the planet, yet the first to offer help during a disaster. Their people are stubborn and never content with the way things are, and for better or worse, all of them imagine how things could be better. Every American is a bankrupt billionaire, a prince in exile, a grounded astronaut, a disgraced scientist. There are the people who do not settle for who they are, but for what they may become.

The country has her problems. Certainly their government has a lot of blood on its hands. But there is something charming about the people I can’t quite place. Even the delusional leftists or the out of touch neocons. There is a certain magic about the place that you don’t find elsewhere. There are bad parts and bad people, to be sure, but there are just as many good parts and good people. It is a land of extremes. But even the poor aren’t really that poor. Much better to be a homeless American living on the beach than literally freezing to death at a metro station in Moscow.

Sure, Yanks say some stupid things. Sometimes they do stupid things like arm terrorist groups they later go to war with. But sometimes they also say profound things. Sometimes they do profound things like planting their flag, in person, on the moon. I can’t stay mad at them and I can’t help but love them.

[mccarthyites]

Bless u

[viewtifulmarkovich]

Nerd.

[friendly-neighborhood-patriarch]

That was profoundly said

[nunyabizni]

I love this

[uncle-beanbag]

America is a melting pot of everyone else. We are everything. 

[lilaccatholic]

I’m literally getting emotional because I can’t remember the last time I saw something this kind about Americans on my dash

[vassaltotheduchess]

Same. As a British ex-pat who has lived in the US for the past 25 years, I find myself with double-vision. Through one lens I can be terribly critical of my adopted country. Through the other I feel the greatest pride and affection. Thanks so much to OP for putting it to words.

[amarretto-cowboy]

I’m a proud American and I approve this message

[circespigfarm]

[crittizen]

The look on her face when she realizes

[aegri-somnia-vana]

Here’s what they said if you didn’t understand-

Interviewer: What do you think about starting an initiative on campus here at UK, to be more inclusive to women who have penises? So we can put urinals in the womens restroom for them.

Student: Sounds fantastic.

Interviewer: Oh, does it?

Student: Yeah.

Interviewer: What about- Let’s take it one step closer, y'know more- for inclusivity here on campus, but free tampons and pads in the mens restroom for men who have periods?

Student: Sounds great.

Interviewer: Ok- You dont see anything wrong with those statements?

Student: No.

Interviewer: What men do you know with periods?

Student: I generally use- ones like in Willy T* have pads, I use them pretty often.

*(Willy T is the college nickname for their library I’ve heard.)

[lost-clause]

I attend this school and I can confirm 2 things. Yes, our big library is indeed called Willy T AND the day that this stank bitch came to campus everyone was losing their MINDS and kept walking by in hopes of getting chosen to call her out. Immaculate.

[iclimbtreestofeelalive]

i. am on the floor. wheezing. the moment she realizes that not only is she talking to a trans man,, but that SHE COULDN’T CLOCK HIM,, this is high art and i want it written in Big Wedge sharpie on my wall

[tricky-pockets]

okay, idk where the clip was, but there was another bit where she was talking to this frat-boy looking dude:

bennett: so do you think we should put tampons and pads in the men’s restroom? dude: sure, I mean, I don’t really care. if a dude needs a tampon, he can have one. bennett: but would he need one? like, what would he use it for? dude, thoroughly unimpressed: I don’t know, that’s his problem.

and I just love that guy’s energy. So much of the trans bathroom talk is invasive and way too personal, and then there’s this guy like “yeah, why the fuck would I need to know? why do you need to know, you weirdo?”

[ask-a-vetblr]

Hi vets! Can you please give me a veterinary perspective on "factory farms" [and if they deserve the negative reputation they get]?

vet-and-wild here.

Yes and no. I mean, everyone may have different opinions but here’s mine as a former farm laborer and Animal Science grad. Sorry this will be long, I have a whole lot of thoughts on this. “Factory farm” is honestly kind of a scary buzzword people use to describe any large farm, but a lot of times it’s just used as a blanket term for large scale farming rather than being owned by a company. The overwhelming majority of US farms are still family owned. Some of the really big farms have the newest technology to decrease their environmental impact and increase animal welfare (i.e. methane digesters, robotic milkers, etc) and end up being more efficient per pound of product produced. Some small farms have a handful of messy, stinky cows that only get seen by a vet when they’re already super sick. I’ve seen both. I’ve also seen small hobby farms where animals are treated like royalty and large scale farms that are messy and inefficient. BUT, doing anything large scale tends to lead to welfare issues (for both humans and animals) and sustainability issues. The state of animal agriculture in this country is a hot mess. Farmers have to produce massive quantities of cheap product to make a living. The problem isn’t that farmers are some evil animal haters that want to poison the planet, it’s that they literally can’t make a living without mass scale production. That needs to change. It’s bad for the farmers, their animals, and the environment. So go after legislators and corporations that allow this to happen, not poor farm laborers.

Animal welfare, particularly for production animals, was a huge part of my degree focus so that’s the area I’m most familiar with. There are obviously a whole bunch of other comments that can be made about environmental impact and human welfare conditions, but I’ll let someone who knows more than me talk about it. As part of my degree, veterinary training, animal welfare studies, and job experience, I’ve been on a lot of farms. Swine, poultry, dairy, beef, meat goat, dairy goat, meat sheep, dairy sheep, mink (fur), and camelid. I’ve been to organic, backyard, research, feedlots, tie-stall, free-stall, large scale, petting zoos, heritage breed, and every kind of imaginable in between privately owned farm. Even vegan farm animal sanctuaries. I’ve been in meat processing plants and have seen first hand what the processes is. So I’ve seen a lot. And you know what? They all have pros and cons. Back when I was in undergrad we were using the Five Freedoms of animal welfare to assess animals. The Five Freedoms are freedom from hunger and thirst, freedom from fear and distress, freedom to express natural behaviors, freedom from pain/injury/disease, and freedom from discomfort. Farms of any scale can meet those requirements, or fail horribly. Personally, I think confinement housing fails horribly, and that’s a practice generally associated with large scale farming. There are actual benefits (i.e. less inter-animal aggression, tailored nutrition, easier monitoring), but you very much take away freedom to express natural behavior and I would argue freedom from discomfort as well. And you know what? I try to be objective, but my personal feelings are that an animal should have enough room to turn around and not stand in their own waste. I don’t think that should be controversial. Animal agriculture is (for the most part) failing horribly with enrichment and ability to express natural behaviors, and that happens to be very important to me as an animal owner so I know I project that onto agriculture. Some species industries are better than others (i.e. dairy), while some are so far behind (i.e. poultry and swine). I’m not vegan or vegetarian. I don’t have a problem with eating meat, but I think the system needs drastic improvements.

People honestly tend to focus on issues that are not really big issues because showing videos of an animal not being knocked insensible before slaughter is much more gut wrenching than a pig without enrichment. But you know what? There are multiple behavioral and welfare issues with pigs not being provided adequate stimulation, including increased tail chewing (which is why pigs are tail docked), aggression, and stereotypic behaviors. Whereas the rate of successful 1st time stunning in processing plants is actually extremely high, and needs to be to pass inspections. PETA shows a video of dead piglets and it makes people outraged, but the issue isn’t animal abuse, it’s poor biosecurity that caused an outbreak of porcine epidemic diarrhea virus that has a near 100% mortality rate for young pigs. That is a real example. People should be upset. They should be upset that biosecurity protocols weren’t followed. But again, a video of a transport truck not being properly sanitized doesn’t really make for a good animal rights video. Public pressure is of course important for change, but people need to actually take the time to learn about what’s really an issue. Y’all can debate whether or not eating meat is ethical, but that’s not the question here, and it ignores the bigger picture. The fact is, there are animals alive right now and that will be born in the future that are harmed by a shitty system. Personally I’d rather focus on relevant welfare issues to improve their lives rather than comparing factory farming to genocide or whatever scare tactics animal rights groups are using nowadays.

Ferox here.

Following on from that note, comparing animla agriculture to genocide is a particular oet hate of mine. Genocide aims to kill and therefore eliminate a specific group of people, which animal agriculture has caused the populations of domestic animals to boom in far greater numbers than their wild counterparts. The goals are literally opposite.

As vet-and-wild was saying, using a blanket term like ‘factory farm’ isn’t super helpful when discussing animal welfare as it’s specific practices within each enterprise that need to be considered, eg dry sow stalls, debeaking, etc. Generally it’s animal density which concerns me, as the more animals you pack in together the more stress behaviours you see and the less natural behaviours, and chickens and pigs get the worst of this. But it’s hard to make a choice as a consumer purchasing food as you can’t backtrack that food from the supermarket to its origin easily so I can see why the discussion is often boiled down to ‘factory farm vs free range’ even if it’s really more nuanced than that.

[oatbird-deactivated20240225]

TW: animal cruelty

Meat industry:

Ranchers:

Not to mention they’re, you know, raising animals for profit in a system that values their carcasses over their lives.

[agro-carnist]

I love when ARAs see images of farmers performing pregnancy checks, a very mundane procedure, and go all dramatic like "OH the HUMANITY! Won't someone think of the cows!"

Or when they see a livestock animal being restrained. Buddy your dog also gets restrained when they go into the vet's office. Sometimes you gotta make them lay on their side and hold their legs. They're not dying

[world-two]

They're not keeping those cows as pets, though. They're holding them down for procedures that make them easier to exploit. Yes, a rescued pet may need to be held down for a shot so they can survive. But a cow doesn't need to be marked with a branding iron to survive. They're marked because it helps with identifying them and their owners, which is only so they can be objectified and exploited.

A necessary procedure that is part of a wholly unnecessary and cruel practice is still unnecessary and cruel.

[agro-carnist]

Branding is not the only time a cow or other livestock will need to be restrained. Livestock need healthcare just like our pets. A cow may need to go into a cattle crush to give it shots, give it a rectal exam, drench it with fluids if it is ill, among other things. None of these things are unnecessary or exploitative.. Calves can be hand restrained for similar procedures. Every animal in human care will need to be restrained in one way or another for proper animal husbandry. Healthcare doesn't suddenly become abusive or exploitative because it is done on a production animal. Even if you wanna point to some procedures as unnecessary, restraining does not hurt and is a short time period of stress (which professionals work on methods that reduce stress). Btw hot branding is a lot less common nowadays and a lot of us agree that it hurts the animal

[scoutsmoocrew]

The husbandry practices I use on Beas who is 100% a pet are indistinguishable from the practices I use on the calves I raise as feeders lmao. If Beas wasn’t polled he still would’ve been dehorned the same way, he was castrated the same way for the same reasons at the same time. It’s all the same

[deathbedthebedthateats]

supporting zoos does not support animals

supporting zoos does not support animals

supporting zoos does not support animals

supporting zoos does not support animals

supporting zoos does not support animals

supporting zoos does not support animals

supporting zoos does not support animals

supporting zoos does not support animals

[orcinus-veterinarius]

You’re right. We should’ve just let the red wolves die off.

[deathbedthebedthateats]

have you heard of this thing called an animal sanctuary

[orcinus-veterinarius]

Yes. And there’s no governing body overseeing them aside from bare minimum USDA regulations. Plenty of so-called “sanctuaries” have animal care far substandard to accredited zoos.

Additionally, every sanctuary I know of does not allow breeding, which doesn’t do critically endangered species much good.

[graboidfarmer]

I don’t usually throw myself into these sorts of conversations, but people need to know that accredited zoos contribute a lot to conservation and repopulation of endangered and vulnerable species. My local zoo has an excellent California condor breeding program that has hatched many beautiful, healthy chicks. With the help of Fish and Wildlife, they also have breeding programs for spotted frogs, Western pond turtles, several species of endangered butterflies, and the extremely rare and adorable Columbia basin pygmy rabbit.

Zoos are not the problem. The problem is zoos run by bad people.

[orcinus-veterinarius]

Exactly. Zoos are responsible for preserving species most people wouldn’t care to save. Everyone wants to help the giant panda, but what about the less charismatic species of frogs and snakes and invertebrates? The popular animals like elephants and lions help fund protection efforts for less appealing (to folks without taste anyway) but still ecologically essential species.

[creatures-and-corpses]

Roe deer but make him floppy

[creatures-and-corpses]

Just some things from my camera roll :)

[harmalite]

CLADISTICS ruined my life

[aquaticpaleo]

yall joke but this is actually a serious conundrun with cladistic-based classification

[a-dinosaur-a-day]

The choice is this: 

Birds are reptiles 

Or crocodilians (and probably turtles) ARENT 

That’s it, that’s the choice 

[shadybacon]

What if Bird and reptiles are two different things that came from the same thing

[a-dinosaur-a-day]

Nope 

Because you can’t group (lizards, snakes, tuatara, turtles, crocodilians) without also including (birds) 

So if you don’t want to include birds in reptiles then you have to leave out some things we’ve called reptiles 

birds are dinosaurs though, full stop. we’ve already defined what a dinosaur is and it includes birds. but reptiles isn’t really defined so much as thrown against a wall angrily. 

[shadybacon]

But don’t turtles and alligators have more in common with modern reptiles than modern birds have in common with modern reptiles? I’m not trying to contradict, I’m trying to understand. Mammals and reptiles have a common ancestor as well, but we do not make them the same group.

[a-dinosaur-a-day]

It’s not about having things in common. It’s about common ancestry, which is how we classify animals in light of extinct species, which defy trait-based classification. 

And, the common ancestor of [lizards, snakes, tuatara, turtles, crocodilians] by definition is also the common ancestor of birds. It is NOT the common ancestor of mammals. 

So, either we decide that Tuatara Lizards and Snakes are the only reptiles, or we include birds as reptiles. Or we just decide reptiles are no longer a thing. 

[anais-ninja-bitch]

don’t throw reptiles against the wall? please? some of them are small and delicate. you could hurt them.

[virovac]

Basically, unless we’re maybe talking massive horizontal gene transfer, everything is still part of the group that came before it. 

You are technically a fish.

[haltraveler]

IIRC the fish thing is so frustrating that scientists have decided fish is just not real cladistic grouping at all

[aethersea]

hey could we go back please to the bit where the closest relative of Birds is Crocodiles? bc I am alarmed

[haltraveler]

Well, technically they’re equally-closely related to crocodiles, alligators, gharials and tomistomas. As archosaurs, they’re all descended from small reptiles that looked something like this 

The two main groups of archosaurs are the Pseudosuchia, or crocodile-line archosaurs, and the Ornithodira, or bird-line archosaurs. Both groups were massively diverse in prehistory, with the Pseudosuchia dominating most land-based niches in the Triassic, and the Ornithodira, especially the dinosaurs, doing the same during the Jurassic and Cretaceous. However, most of them have been wiped out due to the Triassic and Cretaceous mass extinctions, leaving them each with only one surviving clade: Aves, the true birds, and Crocodylia, the semiaquatic, ambush predators like crocs and gators. 

[alexaloraetheris]

This entire post sums up everything we’re not allowed to mention in our Vertebrata classes because the last time someone started that argument they had to break up a fistfight.

[knitordeath]

I’m just hung up on the humans evolving from fish comment.

Like, we evolved from tiny tree-climbing squirrels. To the best of our knowledge.

[theclockworkjudas]

…which evolved from tiny tree-climbing reptiles

…which evolved from amphibians

…which evolved from fish.

[invisible-goats]

*runs in ten minutes late with a plucked chicken* BEHOLD A LIZARD

[oatbird-deactivated20240225]

TW: animal cruelty

Meat industry:

Ranchers:

Not to mention they’re, you know, raising animals for profit in a system that values their carcasses over their lives.

[agro-carnist]

I love when ARAs see images of farmers performing pregnancy checks, a very mundane procedure, and go all dramatic like "OH the HUMANITY! Won't someone think of the cows!"

Or when they see a livestock animal being restrained. Buddy your dog also gets restrained when they go into the vet's office. Sometimes you gotta make them lay on their side and hold their legs. They're not dying

[bigcatawareness]

i don't really understand why you would be pro-zoo. like i understand nature reserves and sanctuaries where people can observe from afar, but it doesn't seem right to me when they're locked up in generally small confined areas for people to watch them do nothing all day. idk maybe i'm getting this wrong, and i still really respect you, i just don't understand this. like i interned at a zoo and felt uncomfortable with how small their living areas were and how they had no stimulation

Zoos don’t look like this anymore.

They look like this:

Good zoos do not keep their animals in “tiny spaces” with no enrichment.  I’m not pro-roadside zoo.  I’m pro-accredited zoo.  Zoos are incredibly important for conservation and education.

Are Zoos Necessary?

The Importance of Zoos: Resource Post

Why Zoos and Aquariums Matter: Assessing the Impact of a Visit to a Zoo or Aquarium

Why I Want to be a Keeper

Why I Believe in Zoos

[useless-zoofacts]

There should be way more pictures of modern zoos so i just add some more

[merp-a-derp69-deactivated201808]

Seriously zoos do so much important conservation work as well I hate when people shit all over zoos as if the animals are locked up and not looked after

[nyxetoile]

The SF Zoo has two sea lions. Now, if you know SF, you know that sea lions are a Thing. They’re all over Pier 39 and various other beaches in N California. In fact, the zoo is near the ocean, so there are sea lions not 200 yards from the zoo entrance. So having sea lions in the zoo seems sort of superfluous.

Except the sea lions are blind. One was found as an adult after suffering a gun shot wound to the face that destroyed his eyes. The other was found as an adolescent, weak and starving because it had been blinded and unable to hunt. So they were rescued and introduced and the zoo built them a nice pool where they can swim and sunbathe and people toss them fish. It’s not the biggest exhibit, or the fanciest. But it’s a home for them, where they’re safe and well fed. Sea lions aren’t the most romantic of animals, but they’re a part of SF culture and a lot of us have a soft spot for the loud, bulbous things. And because of zoos, these two get to live long, happy lives.

Whenever anyone complains about zoos, I think about Silent Knight and Henry. 

[zoogeek327]

I think it’s St. Louis zoo that is saving big cats in Africa. Scientists couldn’t figure out what was killing off the local lion population. They were dying off from Canine Distemper. The local unvaccinated dogs of the towns would spread the disease to other animals or have it themselves. When the lions ate the infected animals they would catch it as well. You know what that Zoo is doing to stop this disease? They are going over to those towns and vaccinating the dogs for free. The community loves it and people from other villages comes for miles to get their dogs vaccinated as well.

They also do work with camel populations because the local human population use the camels for food sources the zoos help monitor the camels health.

Another zoo, I want to say it’s the Oregon zoo but don’t quote me on that, is helping female inmates. The zoo works with the female prisons by encouraging the inmates to assist in the breeding and raising of endangered species of butterflies. They plant the specific plants that the butterflies and catapillars need, raise them, and release them. These inmates get noted in any scientific journals that get published. They are giving these inmates a sense of accomplishment and validation.

Zoos not only save species but bring together and assist communities in an effort to save the environment. Zoos, good zoos, are essential to the future and I will fight anyone who tries to say otherwise.

PS you don’t see PETA doing any of this.

[oscarwetnwilde]

One of the local zoos in my area at one point rescued a bald eagle that had been shot and kept it in the zoo to let it recuperate until they freed it again. Some of the zoos in my state will keep injured animals there until they heal again.

[elenilote]

Helsinki Zoo is the world leader in snow leopard and Amur leopard conservation, in their care these endangered species have managed to breed more than anywhere else in captivity and this in turn has enabled the re-introduction of these animals back to their native habitats. https://www.korkeasaari.fi/helsinki-zoo/

[thekgalaxy]

I work at a zoo that is instrumental in the California Condor recovery program (among dozens of other conservation projects). We went from 42 surviving individuals left to over 400, over 200 of whom are in the wild. We’re part of the amur leopard species survival plan with two young animals who are eagerly attempting to make babies. We host one of North America’s only bachelor troops of western lowland gorillas, preserving the social structure of wild gorillas. All of our bald eagles are rescues who would not survive in the wild. All our keepers participate in field research and conservation work in addition to a full time team of conservationists. We host the most genetically valuable male Masai giraffe in North America, who has sired 5 offspring with 1 on the way, increasing the genetic diversity of his entire species. If you’re against zoos, you don’t know what zoos do.

[nazrigar]

Super, SUPER important thread.

[vet-and-wild]

Also zoos tend to do a lot of breeding and conservation work with smaller, less charismatic species like invertebrates and amphibians. Those species are extremely important in the ecosystem but don’t get the same notoriety as the charismatic megafauna.

[neothebean]

My fellow ‘sparce fans are saying it’s the day to draw Dunsparce in hats. Kaiju loves his sun hat! ovvo

[agro-carnist]

I saw an ARA video where they asked kids if they wanted a chicken sandwich, and then instead gave them the 'ingredients' including a live chicken and a knife. It would have backfired hilariously if they'd gotten a farm kid on there who had been raised butchering his own meat.

They probably purposefully got city kids for that lol

[vintageleg]

Oh they would have had to. Because if they had accidentally brought in a kid who had grown up around livestock I can almost imagine them being too stunned to do anything before the deed was done.