MovieLover2008

🍿

[princessrhcenyra]

ONLY MURDERS IN THE BUILDING ⇢ 1x01 | TRUE CRIME

[superficialpink]

Day two of writing my Nygmobblepot season 3 re-write fanfiction (day one was cut short after the power went out while I was looking at pictures of Victor Zsasz on google images):

I'm really struggling on what to do with Isabella's character. I initially thought it'd be better to write a completely different take on her, make her an actual Hugo Strange clone, or use that plastic surgeon who was giving mafia people new faces or something. But the more I think about her, the more I can't stop thinking about her.

Even if we just take we have from canon, we can only assume she was a regular woman who just happened to look like Kristen Kringle. But not only was she willing to look past the fact that Edward murdered his last girlfriend, she dyed her hair and dressed exactly like her. Who would be capable of doing that? Who was this woman? Why didn't we get to see more of her? Did the writers have an actual plan that had to be cut off or were they just winging it?

Was she actually in love with Ed or did she have ulterior motives? If she had known Penguin planned on killing her and survived, would she have tried to get him back?

[ynngaa]

Will it be a spoiler for a super old movie if I leave this picture here?

Gotham writers were hinting at something and posting images from the movie “Vertigo”. I believe there was some plan that got scrapped along the production. Or maybe they just liked the aesthetic.

From “Vertigo”:

From “Gotham”:

[superficialpink]

Oh, I've heard about this!! Makes me wonder if the original plan was to have Nygma kill her "again" after all.

I think they were at the very least paying an homage, with both Kringle's original style, and Isabella's hairstyle being the same as Madeleine, and then her dyeing her hair and dressing up like Kristen Kringle.

I guess she could have been one of Hugo Strange's Clones™, and in the episode she was introduced there was that plastic surgeon who transplanted faces of dead people on criminals. I was sure that was foreshadowing who Isabella was, but then they killed her off way too soon and now we'll never know.

I think the writers were biting more than they could chew in Season 3, with the Tetch Virus, the Court of Owls, Bruce 2, Jerome coming back, a new Ivy (while also focusing on Jim and Lee's relationship and making sure the worst day of Jim Gordon's life was always the next one).

Isabella's plotline was probably just the easiest to write off (and having Penguin killing her off was also a convenient way to revoke any romance between him and Nygma, and kickstart The Riddler's arc)

[numberonemovielover2008]

Honestly if that’s how they made the arc go, it would have made much more sense since it shows that no matter how hard Ed tries, he can never truly have the perfect romance he so desperately wants. He tried to have that with Kristen but she was too good for him so he killed her. And even though Isabella is on the crazy side, he still can’t be happy because the memory of Kristen is too painful. It would have actually given a reason to why Isabella looks like Kristen. I have my own little rewrite where she never looked like Kristen, Ed just imagined her to be. But if it was supposed to be pure coincidence they looked the same, then it makes it tragic. Ed, no matter how hard he tries, always self-sabotages. It’s in his nature. But of course, the writers didn’t choose any of these options so oh well lol

[writingblus]

i dont "go on walks," i dont "use character sheets" and i dont "plot before writing," i raw dog it, and if it doesnt flow, I FUCKING CRY.

[numberonemovielover2008]

This is one of the most relatable posts I’ve ever seen

[numberonemovielover2008]

Ok this might be a hot take but does anyone else find it annoying that Gotham basically just dropped the whole Penguin mayoral plotline? Like I’m not mad that they focused on Nygmobblepot but despite how Oswald being mayor changes the entire political and legal landscape of the show, it’s barley focused on and is later used as a plot device for that one episode where Oswald sees his dad as a ‘ghost’ thanks to Ed but apart from that, Oswald being mayor has no real impact outside of plot reasons. We don’t even get to see much of Jim’s reaction to this and that’s crazy considering the whole frenemies thing he has going on with Oswald. Jim is so pissed about the whole Pax Penguina license in season 4, why isn’t he more pissed about Oswald being mayor? It makes no sense. I’m not even saying they should have had season 3’s whole plot revolve around Oswald being mayor but they could have at least given us more then what we got.

[frogpropaganda]

"you just like Zutara cause it's a self-insert"

WRONG and you know how I know???? Actual Zuko x Reader content makes him into a smooth sexy goth daddy dom while TRUE radical Zutarians adhere to biblically accurate Zuko, and that man is socially awkward, he is practicing conversations with a frog, he listens to mitski, he's a bit of a theater kid, he plays magic the gathering, his entire face gets red just from holding Katara's hand, he is both horny for and terrified of her, and feeding ducks at the pond is his idea of a good time.

[numberonemovielover2008]

Spitting facts right here 👑

[tswiftgotham]

[numberonemovielover2008]

Ok but what if you love both?

[justzutara]

being in this fandom for the last 20 years

[citizenofgotham]

Ed fell for Oswald first and he fell harder and you can tell. Ed spent the entire series finale doing some crazy scheme because he thought Oswald told him to do it.

[philosopherking1887]

Yes -- my read on the development of Nygmobblepot over the series is that there were *two* fell first/fell harder sequences:

(1) Ed fell first -- i.e., developed a crush on Oswald that started with being starstruck and a little stalker-ish in s1-2, then progressed to the ridiculous heart eyes, "anything for you," and "I continue to be in awe of you" stuff in early s3 -- but was oblivious or in denial about any of this indicating that he was in love; then Oswald fell harder following the "anything for you" incident -- hard enough to be aware of what he was feeling (and the rest is history).

(2) As far as either of them is aware, Oswald "fell first" in season 3; but during season 5, Ed falls again, but even harder -- to the point of staying to risk his life for a city he doesn't care about in 5.11, and then all the nonsense that went on in 5.12 (including the lecherous ogling in the limousine).

[numberonemovielover2008]

Honestly I’ve always thought that Ed fell for Oswald first (even if he didn’t realise it). I mean did you see the way Ed was acting around Oswald in season 1, 2 and early season 3? He had the lovestruck eyes from the get go.

[irrelevantlyvalid]

yeah but how much better would this season have been if lee and ed were just like. super tight friends. like, ed rambling on and on about oswald and about how much he HATES him and how much he thinks about him just because he HATES him so much and his stupid pretty eyes and his oh my god lee am i in in love with oswald??????? and lee tells him the whole story about jim as they paint each others nails and they just respect each other for their intellect and talk about boys and girls and ugh

[numberonemovielover2008]

Honestly I really enjoyed their friendship… emphasis on FRIENDSHIP! They had good chemistry as friends and I think it could have been a really interesting relationship if handled differently. But as is the ship just doesn’t work because it betrays who Lee is as a character and just feels like it only exists to deny any basis for Ed reciprocating Oswald’s feelings.

[numberonemovielover2008]

Ok I just want to talk about something I’ve been thinking about for a while and that is the different interpretations of the whole Oswald/Ed/Isabella plot line in season 3. Now when this plot line happened, there were a lot of fans angry because it caused conflict between Oswald and Ed and felt like a giant middle finger to Nygmobblepot shippers.

But for me personally, I had a very different interpretation to how most people viewed this storyline. I always thought this storyline was not trying to say “oh, Oswald and Ed can never be together”, I thought it was trying to show the complexities of falling in love when you are a psychotic villain like these two.

Because no matter what anyone says, Oswald’s love for Ed was genuine. Even if he did awful things to make Ed reciprocate, it’s obvious that Ed meant something meaningful to him.

After all, if it was just purely obsession, he probably wouldn’t have gone to the lengths he did to save Ed when Lee stabbed him. Does this whole Isabella plot line show a lot of toxicity? Yes, a lot of it lol. But I always thought it was a storyline supposed to show how Oswald and Ed are fucked up soulmates.

That despite everything they do to each other, they always find a way back in each other’s lives. Sort of like star crossed lovers, but with murderers.

I feel like “How the Riddler Got His Name” really backs up this interpretation because why would Ed hallucinate Oswald singing seductively if there wasn’t some repressed feelings there? I always thought that even if Ed hated him, there was always a part of him that will harbour some sort of love towards him.

If Oswald didn’t mean that much to Ed, he would have never spiraled as hard as he did in that episode. But he did, and I don’t think that was on accident.

However, while I thought that this was what the storyline was supposed to represent narratively, I feel like the writers had a different idea of what this storyline was supposed to be, mainly with it being about how Oswald can never be with anyone because he’s selfish. And yes, that was clearly a theme in that arc but I thought that was something he had to overcome, not a thesis on his character. It seems like the entire point of that arc was to show why Oswald will always be alone.

His Sofia crush plot line in season 4 also carried those same themes. But like… why? Why can Barbara Kean, who always has her own agenda and puts herself before others, have multiple romance plot lines but apparently Oswald can’t? Why, because he’s too selfish? I think that’s kind of bullshit lol.

I don’t get why the writers had this obsession with not wanting Oswald to be happy. Do they have a gripe with Robin Lord Taylor or something (lol I’m just kidding but you got wonder why)? Because I don’t understand why for some reason, Oswald seems to be the only character denied the opportunity to be in a meaningful relationship. It’s just kind of strange, especially because him and Ed did have such great chemistry.

[shnehollander]

rewatching lost and making it everyones problem — casual entire thesis of jack and locke in 2x03

[numberonemovielover2008]

This is what great television looks like 📺

[aveisniche-deactivated20260728]

I yearn for a friend group like theirs

[jeromefuckyeah]

Sometimes I think about how Barbara had an art gallery and how Gotham totally missed the opportunity for Barbara to trash it with Jerome like Jack Nicholson’s joker did in Batman 1989

[ladyingreen7]

I was thinking about that the whole time and finally I have done this…

[numberonemovielover2008]

Only wasted potential that they didn’t capitalise on their dynamic lol

[numberonemovielover2008]

So I’ve been thinking a lot about how they could have fixed both Jerome and Barbara’s arcs in ‘Gotham’ and I think I have the perfect solution that fixes both at the same time. So in the early seasons of ‘Gotham’, there were a lot of hints that she was going to become Harley Quinn (this was seen in her costume in season 2 and just her personality traits). But instead they went into a completely different direction with her character in season 4 when she turned out to be Ra’s successor but I think we can all agree that was kind of stupid lol.

So what if instead of dying at the end of season 3, Tabitha sends her off to Arkham and Barbara meets Jerome there? Then you can capitalise off their chemistry in season 2 and have them fall in love (in their own mad way) and have Barbara embrace the Harley Quinn identity. I understand there were restrictions so they probably wouldn’t have been able to say the name but you can still have Barbara embrace that persona. But what could be interesting is that unlike Harley in the comics, Barbara’s version of her could be more proactive, actually acting as a partner to Jerome rather then his goon. But because Jerome is insecure about someone having more power over him, he betrays her and then we can have Ecco become the second Harley Quinn.

I really think this idea would have been excellent for a few reasons. 1. It fixes a major problem with Barbara; finally giving her arc a clear direction. We’ve seen her downward spiral for so long yet we never see her truly give her madness an identity. Making her the first Harley Quinn fixes that. 2. Instead of having that ideology idea that was used in the show be used solely for Jerome, use that idea for the Harley Quinn role. But instead of having it just be about ideology, have it be about evolution, about how roles change over time because it would be cool to realise that the Harley role at one point did have agency but that slowly got morphed into a submissive role because Jerome would rather have someone follow him then threaten his power. And 3. It could have also done one of the most radical changes to the Batman lore by doing something no one has ever done before; make Jerome the actual father of Barbara Gordon (Batgirl) and not Jim Gordon.

Think about it: having Batgirl be Jerome’s daughter makes their dynamic not only really fucked up but compelling, but also puts Jim in a very interesting position because he would be raising the daughter of not only a psychopath, but Batman’s greatest enemy. It also makes Barbara’s decision to become Batgirl so much more compelling in the future because it’s a giant middle finger to everything Jerome stands for and gives them an interesting father and daughter relationship that would have fans speculating on for years. Could have been cool but oh well 😂

[numberonemovielover2008]

Ok I haven’t done one of these for a while but I have another Gotham writing prompt. How would you change Lee’s character arc in season 3 and 4? Because I feel like we can all agree that her arc went into some… interesting places.

[vinniethecannibal]

I’ve watched Gotham 3 times and I’ve noticed that after my last rewatch that I’m definitely more annoyed at how Edward is written, than when I first started watching the show. Specifically in s4&5, it starts to feel like he’s almost an accessory to Oswald‘s Arc in the show (s5 all he did was build a submarine for Oswald, s4 he had a whole rivalry with Oswald, and was even paired with Lee. Which makes no sense when you realize that he literally caused her miscarriage.) It’s really a shame because you see Cory Michael Smith act his ass off and the writing doesn’t add much or anything at all to it. S2 was definitely Edward’s best season in terms of character development, what happened in the later seasons I think showed that The Riddler does not suit a split personality story line long term—especially with how it was portrayed. If the writers wanted to use that, they could’ve gave Harvey more screen time and sorted something out with him. Galvan’s trial for example could’ve been where he had acid thrown at him.

In Edward’s case, it doesn’t work for him, the tragedy of The Riddler is that he started off wanting to be respected, then when he gets a taste of the infamous Riddler, he can’t go back, he can’t stop himself from spewing riddles/leaving riddles at his crimes, even when he has everything going for him (ex: Riddler’s reform in BTAS.) instead of having Isabella’s death be how he became the Riddler, the show could’ve done something where they made him miss the thrill of leaving riddles at crime scenes and having the police run around trying to solve them, like he did in s2. The Riddler would not “fall in love” with someone after a handful of hours with them. The show doesn’t even make it seem like he sees her as a second chance with Kristen and not as her own person, they could’ve but they didn’t. Isabella’s only use as a character is to separate him and Oswald, God forbid two men are in a relationship. How did they do so well in s2 and even s3 as well but just go off of the rails after that?

Edit: it sort of feels like what the Chucky show did to Tiffany where they made her a one trick pony, that’s what s4&5 remind me of.

[numberonemovielover2008]

Yeah I have to agree. Riddler is such a great character but I felt like the whole split personality situation put his arc into a hole the writers didn’t know how to escape. I think his split personality worked sometimes, like when he killed Kristen and he felt guilty about that. But when I watched that episode I thought it was more of a mental manifestation of Ed’s guilt rather then an actual split personality because the personality only emerged when Ed killed Kristen’s boyfriend, it’s not like it was shown beforehand. But again it felt like the writers just wanted Ed to be their version of Two-Face. But he isn’t, he’s the Riddler, a completely different character lol. I do wish they focused more on Ed just trying to build his Riddler identity more rather then dealing with split personalities. The only way I feel like it could have worked again is if they actually went through with Ed reciprocating Oswald’s feelings but feeling guilty about it due to Oswald killing Isabella so his Riddler side comes out to try and taunt him about it.