You have insanity, and then you have Ivan. Till would rather have insanity.
Ivan had merely shrugged, that awful, charming smile he had worn diligently since he was sixteen turning a tinge more manic. "Why not? We're in the prime age to do it, it'll get harder to conceive as we age, and you've thought about the idea." Which meant he had seen Till's search history, and Till really needed to change his phone password.
ivan pitches the idea of having a baby to till, who takes it as well as you may expect. my take on a modernverse ivantill fic, in order to make up for the disastrous storm that was final.
r18, modernverse, transmasc till, please read the tags before reading !
ivan as a tragic-love character (pt.4e?) | Cure edition
Here we go! Last step - for now, because I'm definitely looking forward to Ivan's solo part 2, they own it to us!!
But first, part 4 HERE + a little recap!
Vivimeng gifted us three beautiful tracks with glimpses of Ivan's mind and feelings - and for that, I'll be forever grateful. I can't even begin to say how fascinated I am with this character, it feels like an eternal mistery the more we are shown about him.
Song-wise, we have Nowhere, Black Sorrow and Cure - listed in order of composition/performance and in a somewhat chronological order of the hints about the growing maturity of Ivan's character. Taking into account that the last two were probably not written by Ivan (but are still meant to partly speak about him and his relation to Till), the first his definitely the best portrait we have. Nevertheless, each of them gives us a piece of Ivan as seen from his own eyes/the eyes of Vivimeng, each with something more and something less.
Where Nowhere recounts his life, from his childhood to his years at Anakt up to his graduation (how he tries to fit in, how he imitates to compensate, how the dissonance between the Ivan he is and the Ivan-character he builds forms the mask everyone sees, how he learns to control his emotions, even those he doesn't comprehend and make him bitter, numb, resigned), the delivery of Black Sorrow is its direct outcome.
Nowhere has a flat rhythm, but it's full of complex, vibrating emotions, memories, considerations and images. Black Sorrow has a much more monolitic scenary (black everywhere), but has such richness in the way Ivan sings it and portrays its content - how the power in his voice builds with past flashes of Till, coming out hoarse and breathtaking. I love the play of opposites here, it feels like we are discovering two sides of the same character - the inner, numb voice of a Ivan who offers us a window to his soul and the charming, smiley boy on stage who tells us the story of a sorrowful unrequited love (where in reality, much deeper, it is not only about that, but also about how this world is taking the chance of keep loving Till from the shadows away from him).
Ivan doesn't pretend love from Till - that's not the kind of violence Ivan or his love are made of. It is more a type of intensity, of desperation born from lack of understanding and small, sudden epiphanies - from a need that is also quiet, wary and respectful.
Ivan's love is not pretty, soft and rosy. It blooms in secret, it is obsessive and requires petty attention. How could it not be? Imagine a boy who has never had anything for himself making his first friend. Imagine him being charmed by him and thinking about him and finding his eyes on him all the time - imagine him provocking him, hurting him, feeling guilty and fascinated and confused, because he doesn't really know how people show affection to each other, has never received love and care during his childhood, when it is most important and educational. Imagine him projecting all his hopes and positive feelings onto that person - would his mind accept that person slipping away from him? Till represents so much to Ivan - and contrary to many opinions, it is not Mizi who keeps Till away from Ivan (Mizi is part of what makes Till special in Ivan's eyes). On one hand, it is Ivan himself; on the other it is, of course, their lack of proper communication that makes Till iperaware and wary of Ivan.
Ivan's love is the result of normalized abuse and the lack of stability of an entire life, of the newfound happiness, quiteness, intimate dependability he formed with Till slowly slipping away from him because the alien society decided that they were meant to participate in a game where only one of them (or none) would come out alive. No matter how obedient Ivan is, the stage awaits both him and Till, and he will either die or have to live without Till.
This is the background on which Cure is performed.
12] Cure, or Ivantill at their best (and our worst)
Cure holds a special place in my heart, and I think we all know how impactful Round 6 was on all of us. While a big part of my previous posts were closely related to Ivan as a character experiencing the world, here I can finally delve into my babies' round however I like!
I don't really know how to talk about Till's verse, but I've been looking forward to it. I'd love to analyse him as a character, and I may do that in the near future, but I feel like I wouldn't do him justice - even though both me and Till are INFP and are quite similar. So forgive me if I lose his characterization along the way.
Allow me, to the tips of your fingers
Allow me, to the ends of your feet
Dissolve me in your gaze
I don't want to let you go
Please, leave me scars
Please, hurt me so that
Not a single drop of me remains
Let me drown in you
If Till wrote these verses and I was on the receiving end of them, I'd swoon so bad I wouldn't know what to do with myself. But I can't help but think how well they match the second part of the song, when Ivan comes in, so I'm guessing the lyrics were written by the same person (alnst directors or whatever, but neither Till nor Ivan) with a precise theme in mind? Like, impossible love, a love that can never be?
That being said, we know he is thinking about Mizi. (But.)
There is none of the usual bite in Till's voice, but it is still full of emotions. The verses he sings seem like a prayer. A request to touch someone, manifesting his wish of not wanting to let go of that person. It's like he is saying through Cure's lines, "if I am really forced to let you go, if there is nothing I can do, please leave scars on me and make me forget about everything by drowning and losing myself in you/your memory - make me numb to everything so that I don't have to face this alone".
It feels to me that, since Till knows he is about to lose either himself or the one he considers a dear friend (death, either way, will be the outcome of this round), he reaches out to what has always been a source of solace and relief, his safe heaven - the memory and image of Mizi -, to get strength from her. So, while it is true that he is thinking about her, I also think he is reaching for her hand in his mind as a mean to brace himself for the inevitable. There is none of the usual heat in Till's tone, it's like he already perceives the defeat looming over him - he dies or Ivan dies, and either way, it is a loss for him.
There is another interpretation that I want to add, though (one we can make in retrospective, one we all probably matured after Till's death). Let's think about R7 Till - a Till that has already lost Ivan. I feel these words would take a deeper, more desolate nuance, one where Till is asking Ivan to either stay or scar him in a rhetorical way, because Ivan is already gone and he has already hurt Till beyond belief with his sacrifice and the feelings he never revealed. During Blink Gone, Till can't help but drown in his last memory of Ivan.
So maybe, while singing these verses, he is not directly asking Mizi to scar him, nor is he asking Ivan - maybe he is asking god, any god. Maybe there is no one behind those words as Till sings them - after all, I can think Till writing/saying this to Mizi, nor would he say it to Ivan (not pre-Round 7, at least). Those lines are for us, for the ivantill we see and could have been.
Until these falling stars
Are buried in the blur of time
On your icy lips
Read my soul
Yes, my soul, oh, oh
I love how perfectly these lines fit ivantill from an outer perspective.
Stars are an important element for both of them, and here, it feels like Till is buring that particular memory deep into his mind - to forget? To hold it dear one last time, since he starts to feel he doesn't have the strength to go on? Without Mizi, Till's chant is teary, a prayer with no god in sight, something sang as a last resort.
On your icy lips - another plea to the singing partner, almost like a prediction of who'll die and have their lips turn cold. If this song is meant to follow the theme of impossible love (not unrequited, just impossible, since one of the two has to die), how profound it is? Something like, "On your lips linger the words with which you will read my soul", as if the first singer is asking the second to dig into his soul and tell what he found there. "Read my love/affection for you in my soul, you know it's there, even if this is the end for us."
Maybe it's time I drown.
Oh, the irony! If only Ivan would do that! Read the affection Till has for him, find it engraved in Till's soul and heart - not romantic in nature, perhaps, but affection nonetheless. Till is unconsciously making a request that Ivan doesn't really hear and has no time to fulfill. Who is contributing in making this love impossible? Huh?!
Even if your cold words
Carve scars beneath my eyes
May they linger on your tongue
You can break me apart
Noticе my pain
And mend me right now
To quiet my fеars
I'll drown in you
Ivan's verse are meant to be for Till. No discussion about that. Whoever wrote/chose the song knew - their relationship is made of harsh words and scars, but it holds especially true in Ivan's case. I'll go slow here.
Even if your cold words carve scars beneath my eyes, may they linger on your tongue - It starts with "even", so we already know that whatever comes after, no matter how bad it is, they are not considered totally negative on the singer's part. This song - this moment - makes Ivan realize that despite the harsh threatment he and Till reserved to each other, despite how he himself was far from gentle with the younger boy, he accepts it all. Till's "cold words" can "linger on [his] tongue", can be directed at Ivan, Ivan is fine with it and is giving him his permission: you can break me apart.
Why? Because maybe, like that, with Ivan bleeding from the harsh threatment, Till may notice [his] pain and decide to mend [him], make him whole again. Ivan's words are also a prayer - an hopeful, honest one, contrary to the resignation we find in Till: "do to me whatever you want, I'll accept all of you. Can you please heal me right after destroying me?"
One last request. One last hope, as if hoping to finally have Till look at him.
To quiet my fеars, I'll drown in you - This is probably the part that breaks me the most. Because I don't believe that Ivan wasn't afraid in that moment. For him, these are his last moments, the last minutes he gets to live and to see the person he loves. No matter how indifferent he is/fakes to be of everything, I can see him being afraid and reluctant in those instants - not to die for Till, but to die and say goodbye to him.
I think this is the moment Ivan knew for sure - or at least, since I am bad and am angst-addicted, I like to think it. This is the moment Ivan knew, despite all his own quirks, that he loved Till, and that he should have threated him differently. That's why his comic has so much of what he felt during Round 6 - regret, gratitude for Till being a victim to his shallow emotions and relief, I fear, for being able to do something that can be universally recognized as a symbol of true love (sacrificing himself).
Sick of these nights to come
To be engulfed in silence
In your gaze, where I'm seen
Consume me, yes, me, oh, oh
I said before that something Ivan probably liked about Till was that he didn't have to pretend with him all the time. He could be annoying and a bit violent and unsufferable, and Till would yell at him but still let him stay near. Fake smiles didn't work with Till because Till is sensitive to emotions and their autenticity.
These linese are another fitting set of words for Ivan. I imagine him envoloped by the silence of the night, day after day, as he waits for the inevitable round, imagining him and Till singing together one last time. And of course, the one thing he has always (consciously and unconsciously) wanted - to be seen by Till. He pleas to be consumed, "consume me before death comes to me, before I take the last step and close my eyes and won't be able to see you ever again. Consume me with your eyes, for there is no other way I'd want to die".
To this everlasting melody
Face to face, we dance
With our story
Lost in forever's embrace
Only the first two lines are delivered before the foreseeable tragedy strikes.
To this everlasting melody - I love the use of "everlasting". In a way, this moment will remain eternal, to us and to both of them, as it is the last instance of Ivan and Till together.
Face to face, we dance - These words hold Ivan's desire, but will never come true. Or in a way, perhaps, they do. Ivan's hands are on Till and he leads the younger boy to the end of the song.
These lines offer us the image of something that never will, a truth that is explicitated by the following words: With our story lost in forever's embrace. This song is meant to create a fixed moment of something that the two singers will never be able to replicate.
But we don't even get there, because Ivan notices Till giving up, can't even fulfil the entirety of the song and directly stalks toward him, reaching for Till and granting himself one last selfish wish - something Ivan had asked of Till at Anakt, but was denied.
And the rest is history.
SPECIAL] Of Ivan, Till and love.
Cure represents ivantill not because the words that compose this song are written by them and have to fit them (since they weren't, I think), but because these words describe what they are, what they are not and what they could have been. They mirror their known and unclear dynamics, the feelings they awarely hold for the other and those they can't perceive but that we can see.
This song is meant to be a melancholic love story of inevitable loss between the two singers, but the roles appear to be unclear, like the two of them don't fit perfectly - like they are being forced in those roles. Despite that, they are the perfect pick for the song. Why, then, can we still perceive this as an ivantill song? It's because we know that Ivan loves Till and that Till cares about Ivan, and no matter what we see, Till does feel anguish at the idea of losing him. It is not a conventional performance of an impossible love - it's the ivantill version of it, where what makes it impossible is not only the system they live in, but their miscommunication, antics and reciprocally hiding their true feelings for each other, be it love or something else.
That's why the round and the interpretation of the song are so complex. Mizi was Till's inspiring force and now, in Roung 6, she becomes the source of his remaining strength. It's either he lives or Ivan does, and since he doesn't have the will and energy to go on, Till gives up. He taps on his memory of her and closes his eyes to everything around him, lets himself go and accepts his own death. Maybe that's the moment the idea of Ivan's departure stops weighting on him, because it's when Till stops fighting and singing and knows that if he'll die, Ivan will live, so he stands there and waits. Little does he know...
Till's reaction to the kiss (surprise, resistance, resigned acceptance), the point where the song is interrupted - it is all emblematic of the armonization they should have reached at that point of the performance but never achieved, not on stage, nor in their relationship. The first time I saw the kiss (as an outsider to the fandom, since the kiss was the first thing Alnst related I ever saw - yeah spoilerr I know, twt's algorithm is cruel but knows me best), I had the impression that the gray-haired guy's rejection of the kiss wasn't out of disgust or anger, but of shock and apprehension - like he didn't expect it and was worried they'd get caught. I didn't know they were on a stage (and I though Ivan was police lol), so I was sad when the black-haired guy was shot, but I remember thinking "omg did he do that stunt the protect the other one? Does he love him?" and was immediately sold.
I stand there even now. Ivan does not hesitate - and the moment he reaches for Till, Till's pupils dilatate at Ivan's touch. My brain literally exploded at this detail. Till doesn't start resisting until after Ivan initiates the kiss, and he is just half-heartedly trying to get away - he probably has no energy and is confused as hell. Ivan's closeness doesn't seem to bother him, it's only the kiss that he has no explanation for. He doesn't even struggle when Ivan strangles him.
We know why Ivan did all of that - we know Till was in his mind until the very end, that he probably attacked his opponent to e disqualified and killed. Ivan's sacrifice reflects his last thoughts - I should have been kinder. His last little peck on Till's lips looks like an apology, for the previous forced kiss and everything else.
Heart-breaking highlight of this section: affection was something Till taught Ivan without even realizing. Better, it is something Ivan learned by watching Till nuzzling flowers, raging against injustices, blushing for love, getting offended and sad over something hurtful. That's why Ivan's love was unclear to him but so painfully obvious to us.
Let's remind ourselves a couple of things. Till wasn't aware of Ivan's feelings for him. I feel like he is the type of character that has great empathy and perception, that can easily resonate with the emotions other show and project on him or their surroundings. That's what makes him so vivid, so enraged. Till can't un-feel - it's what makes him so dear to my heart, and what probably made Ivan so intrigued with him. So he probably feels guilty and confused and angry. Those emotions fuel him during the last round, and even if we know (and he probable knows, too) that is isn't enough, he fights.
On the other hand, the Ivan we know loves surprisingly quietly. In secret, in the privacy of his mind and in the background of his own song. The Ivan we know shows affection loudly, hungry for attention, but from behind a wall. Then he brushes it off as if he is mocking his own crush, teasing and childish about admitting his interest. Letting Till know that his affection is real is useless, and nothing will come out of it. Each action has an effect, a consequence, and he probably thinks that a love declaration is done in the hope of receiving affection from someone special. Ivan believes love is unrelated to him, so what's the use? Till would reject him and grow awkward with him and Ivan wouldn't be able to stay by his side anymore, so he only has something to lose. He can't pursue it, can't be greedy for more, because he would be undeserving of it all the same - of Till's good heart, of whatever hunch of affection Till would confirm of having for him.
Ivan wants, but doesn't know how to deal with it. And despite it all, he still reaches for Till - because how can you suppress love in those little moments where your body moves before your mind?
I am not sure if I covered eveything I wanted to say, but writing about them is such a beautiful experience, I probably won't refrain from adding stuff on tumblr if I feel like it. In the end, we go back to the original question I had in mind when starting all this - the idea of Ivan being a tragic-love character, and what it entails.
For someone thinking to be unlovable and with his "unrequited" feelings for Till, Ivan's character has as much to do with love as all the other characters, if not more. Alien Stage itself is a question, reflection and celebration of love. I think that ultimately, it is open to interpretation, as we all have different degrees of sensitivity and can read things in different ways, just like Ivan's askewed perception of himself and how, in his constant, quiet search to fit in and imitate others, he never truly understood that he was indeed loved.
Each character has their own definition of love, and Ivan felt like he did not belong to any of them - while in fact it is not a quest of fitting definitions, but love itself that adapts to the people we have and want in our lives.
So, does Ivan want to be a tragic-love character? Does he willingly become it? I don't think he wants, but in the end, his character intertwines with this vision because even if he can't accept the idea of being loved, he is loved - and his unawareness enhances the tragic nuance of it. Does he actively reject love? Yes and no. I think he'd be happy if Mizi or Sua or Till were to manifest affection toward him, but he'd probably accept it on surface level, or believe they fell for his facade/are doing it out of pity or without truly knowing him.
Consciously, he simply believes that just like people breath and exist, he can't be loved. He didn't have the time, the means and the chances to actively overturn this belief. The tragedy of his character hides in his nature, upbringing and dissonance: it is partly an obvious, inevitable outcome and partly something he didn't stop from happening (because for him it was equally unavoidable). For us, he is a character doomed to a tragic love story. For Ivan himself, love has never been in the picture - his affection was a quiet, brimming thing, and he could only... bury it with himself.
ALNST MASTER POST - aka I link all the alnst media I know of so that you and I can find everything more easily (I'll update this post as more things are posted)
Official 🌠 ALIEN STAGE playlist on Vivinos YT channel (aka all the mvs)
Official 🌠 song playlist on Vivinos YT channel (mvs songs + covers)
ALNST Sub: Love & Peace (Hyuna Part.1), Drunk & Party (Hyuna Part.2), Nowhere (Ivan Part.1) (extra songs)
Official twt @/Official_ALNST, if you don't have twt they post the same things on Vivinos YT community (posts regularly every friday)
Official ALIEN STAGE web site (https://alienstage_eng.creatorlink.net/)
Vivinos (@/vivinos_) and Qmeng (@/qmeng_ci || @/qmeng_ja) IG (they occasionally post official art)
Vivinos Patreon (some posts aren't behind a pay wall)
Patreon Free Tier Posts
EP 06: Alien Stage Episode 0 Production Process
ALIEN STAGE Audition Behind the Scenes-
My Clematis: The First-Ever Harmony
A Legendary Comeback Coming Soon!
INTERVIEW WITH LUKA
Anakt Garden Child's Diary translation
translation
ALIEN STAGE MAGAZINE
IVAN INTERVIEW
Anakt Garden Outstanding Student Interview
Guardian Interview: Pet humans trending! Raising them well pays off!
Behind the Scenes of the ALNST 2nd Anniversary Pop-up Store
Part 3 here (Nowhere's analysis). I should be almost done. I think. Not sure. I'm keeping it brief this time, I have no energy to deal with Cure now.
Mind-blowing discovery related to Nowhere: Ivan can compose and write songs alright. We know Till is a genius when it comes to it, but look at Ivan being an excellent talent as well! I keep thinking about Ivan moving his fingers as if he was strumming a guitar, same way Till does when he composes, and my heart feels full.
10] Black Sorrow.
We go back where this madness of mine started. Top 1 (now slightly Top 2 for me) song from Alien Stage, and what can I say that I haven't already written in the past? I love Ivan's husky, expressive voice here, so different from the plain (equally expressive) and numb tone he uses in Nowhere, like two sides of the same coin. The talent this boy has... Infinite and vast, just like his heart - only, he doesn't quite realize that.
Black Sorrow is the song that brings him victory in Round 3. It is a song deemed good enough for his character, for the Ivan the aliens wanted and he himself built, piece by piece. By the time he steps on the stage and sings it, Ivan is who what he should be - the puppet, the valuable smile, the charming participants in the Top 3 of ALNST 50° edition.
Black Sorrow is also the song that marks and anticipates Ivan's disobedience. It once again presents us with Ivan's dream, "I can’t reach you, so I imagine alone You who shines, I stand next to you", because in the face of their impending doom, imagining something that will never be is all that's left to him. Just like falling stars, Ivan understands that Till is similarly ephemeral, that he won't be by Ivan's side forever - that Ivan himself can't stay by his side forever. That's where the black sorrow reaches its climax.
Ivan gives so much with this song - not only with the lyrics, but with the way he sings them. The way he rages against the final verses, saying "You are my Black Sorrow"? It's heart-wracking, a memento of the person he has been, a slice of what he had in his heart, what he wanted, what could have been, what he discarded and held on tight until the end but never truly managed to get out.
You know what I also love about Round 3 performance? Toward the end, Ivan extends his hand. At first he points in front of him, and he has this expression - mocking, aggravated, like he is making fun of someone or accusing him of hurting Ivan so much. First case, he is moking himself. Second case, he is accusing Till.
The he turns serious, eyes dark, half-lidded, and he opens his hand - palm up, like an invitation, like he is trying to reach something - someone.
What blew my mind is that he doesn't close his hand. Doesn't try to grab that thing, that person, doesn't try to drag it toward himself - no, he just reaches out and keeps singing until his voice curls and scratches and takes everything out of him. He only reaches out and gives all of himself and maybe, probably hopes for someone to finally turn and take his hand (again). He doesn't force it - he never had. Ivan is willing to be left behind, alone, willing to see Till love someone else, willing to die for him because he knows he can't have any of that - because he knows his palm will forever be cold and empty.
Wow. I am my own nightmare.
11] Ivan, love and shallow emotions
I said the dissonance in ivan starts with the metor shower and is mirrored in Nowhere - that it is the song where Ivan tells about himself, about the Ivan he intertwined, about the story of himself he wrote.
Ivan is a kid who built his unlucky life on survival skills, but then here comes Till, and Ivan is basically at war with himself. The numbness that helps him survives takes emotions (their comprehension) away from him, and at the same time, feelings he doesn't understand and has no rational labels for emerge, and he doesn't know what to do.
In the end (and I literally mean "the end", the time approaching his death, when he knows he'll have to compete against Till), it's about what he refined all his life (his ability to survive) and Till, who evokes Ivan's most human and chaotic side.
He calls them "shallow emotions", but my love, there is nothing more intense and deep than giving up your life willingly, as we all tend to self-preservation.
Why does he call it "shallow"? How could he not? He had a very specific definition/example for love, and he never felt like he fit in. He never felt deserving. He probably considered it, at a certain point, "can I be loved? Is this feeling I am reading about/seeing something that will ever touch me?" and the answer was most certainly "no". We know it is, Vivimeng told us in the fan meeting, but it is obvious. There is a big wall between Ivan and love, and he built it. It's not his fault that wall appeared, but he helped out in leaving it in place and fortifying it.
Conclusion? Since his love and affection toward others are strange and obsessive and lack the beautiful, shiny, rose-tinted lively intensity that he clearly sees portrayed in other people's eyes, his feelings can only be shallow in comparison.
What is ultimately devastating about Ivan is that he loved Till so much and he didn't fully realize. We know it, we can say it with stark clarity, it's written all over his face, in his eyes, in his twisted actions. He loved slowly and deeply and breathtakingly, with crying eyes and a smile, and he still thought it all to be shallow.
Don't you wanna just... bang your head against a wall?
There is genuinely some collective insane genius within the people who write ivantill fics on ao3. A very specific kind of ivantill fic, mind you. You'll know them when you see them.
Alien Stage already permanently altered my brain chemistry enough these fics are turning me into something otherworldly and ungodly because the author genuinely puts ecstasy, meth, ketamine and all the other drugs I can't be bothered to list into the Google doc they're written on and it gets beamed directly into my brain, thereby ruining it forever.
I read one like this something like... a week ago? It changed my brain. Hanahaki Disease AU, unrequited love, pining Ivan, 30k, a masterpiece. I think I never read a fan fiction so good and I can't help but feel blessed - I can't believe we get to read this stuff for free.
You understand? Fan fictions like this deserve awards, recognition, lots of comments and a big report to the police for drug trafficking. Because. Because how can words be this good and painful and drill into my skull and carve into my soul like that???
I can't help but think Jacob dying reminded HyunA of her brother, so in some act of remembrance, she wanted to be as good of a leader for the rebellion and retain the core values her brother had, and that's why she stepped up for them
to hear "forgive yourself" from someone who was probably family to her and who welcomed her was such a big leap for her character after what happened with hyunwoo
a pen in a story @apeninastory - Tumblr Blog | Tumgag