Your Politics are Stupid

Stop being stupid.

[theconcealedweapon]

[otakuvampyre]

This would be more believable if the ones chanting that weren't the ones starving, bombing and killing innocent people.

When it's regimes like the irgc and terrorist groups who are chanting "death to America" you can't expect us to believe this crap. Tho this is from Twitter, where no one thinks critically got even 2 seconds and rightfully calling a group terrorists, yes even ones internationally recognized as such, gets you labeled an islamophobe.

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

It's hilarious to me how the people who loved the "You are not immune to propaganda" meme, absolutely adore propaganda.

[beardedmrbean]

What the actual hell

[ceasarslegion]

Ouran high school was my favourite anime when I was like 14 which is really funny because thats also the age I basically was in a Haruhi fujioka situation. Not like fully literally but the meat of it was the same

I was the one single middle-class kid in a super high-end rich kid private academy with like pressed uniforms and building wings and everything. I didnt get any sort of scholarship, my dad just got a job as a teacher there and teachers kids got to enroll for free because the tuition was like 30 grand a year and you arent affording that on a teacher salary. So I understand her on a very visceral level and perhaps enjoyed OHSHC so much because she was SOOO me fr. These damn rich people

[ceasarslegion]

One time I convinced my classmates that I had never had sushi before because we were too poor to afford it just so they would pay for my sushi dinner and it worked. They were so out of touch that they thought I didnt have the money for anything more expensive than fast food. I did in fact take advantage of this partially because every teenager is a shithead and I was not exempt from that rule and partially because I knew they had more money than god so it was a totally victimless crime. A classmate once bought 2 copies of The Last Guardian on release just because they thought I "deserved a new game." They thought I couldnt afford a new video game and I said nothing

[ceasarslegion]

This experience also made me utterly immune to the "rich people shit is when [middle class thing]" discourse on this site. Because ive directly experienced rich people shit and its NOT when someone goes to NYU or gets Starbucks on their breaks at the job they have to work to afford their mortgage.

Rich people shit is when I had to yell at my classmates that we are not spending tens of thousands of dollars ON BALLOONS for our prom when we had a DJ to pay and their response to me was "thats only 700 dollars per person."

Rich people shit is when I went to go tutor one of my classmates little brothers who was struggling with history and it took him 10 minutes to go get his tablet from his bedroom and come back to the kitchen table because their house was that big, which was being cleaned by a live-in maid while their private chef made us snacks the entire time I was tutoring him. And then their parents paid me 500 bucks and told me "sorry I seem to have misplaced my other wallet, is this enough? Its not a lot :(("

Rich people shit is when the other teachers kids and I breezed through school with high GPAs because all of our peers had so much money that they never had to care about getting into a good university or having careers or budgeting or anything, so they never tried.

Rich people shit is when youre invited to a little get together on the weekends and get told to bring an overnight bag because their definition of a little get together is an overnight yacht trip. And then you get there and find out that your middle class definition of what's needed for an overnight trip is VERY different from a rich persons definition of the same thing: you have some pajamas, clean underwear, toothpaste, and some soap and face wash, maybe some moisturizer. They bring half their wardrobes and designer personally-commissioned serums that cost more than your house and then tell you that youre "just so quaint."

So much discourse around whos rich and whos not comes from people who have never been in a rich persons reality and so they end up shooting directly above them and calling that rich. But I tell you from personal experience that rich people are uniquely disconnected from reality and anybody who has to work for a living is by definition NOT rich. I dont care if they have a big suburban house and 2 new cars and go on vacations a lot, thats not RICH. Rich is when their kids think 700 dollars is pocket change for prom balloons and have their own personal yacht to take their friends on whenever they want, not when someone goes to fucking NYU.

[thelegendofsqam]

[spooksier]

passages that make you whisper "oh my god"

[barryogg]

Ok but that's not actually true? It's not the only thing people have left, they just want to feel like that's the case so they can excuse their inaction

[siryouarebeingmocked]

Also, the people who insisted all art is political were mostly folks on the left, not society in general. People explicitly said "you're wasting your time on pointless quibbles". And now this article is going "wow, can you believe we were forced to waste our time on pointless quibbles?"

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

To rephrase, many a leftist adore being told they have no agency. Which makes it hilariously easy for them to be manipulated. By merely telling them to exercise their agency to protest their lack of agency. The irony is palpable.

[revizyonist]

med people are so annoying "This family's 8 year old child who was about to go through a major surgery and kept crying that she was hungry so they pitied her and gave her food, she then had a heart attack in the surgery. They're so stupid 😒" girl they didn't know that could happen or why it happens. it takes so little time to explain to them that will happen instead of telling them "no food" with no explanation 10 times

[revizyonist]

"Before surgery, your body’s reflexes that protect your airway are relaxed by anesthesia. If there’s food or liquid in your stomach, it will near certainly come back up and go into your lungs, which can cause choking, a severe lung / heart infection or even a heart attack. That’s called aspiration, and it is life-threatening. It's hard, but it's only a single day to prevent near certain death. Not eating or drinking beforehand massively lowers the risk and helps prevent these life threatening situations under anesthesia." <- TIP: patients have brains which allows them to receive information just like you

[ancelineonline]

I have four kids. I’ve had one or another of them need some kind of surgical procedure that requires anesthesia four or five times over the past 15 years.

This Tumblr post is the first time someone has explained to me *why* I couldn’t feed them before those instances.

I’m not stupid. I understood that just fine. Hell, my kids would have understood that just fine. But no one bothered to tell us.

[bowditch]

i did know this before having kids (i have six). we have a kid that's needed multiple procedures requiring anesthesia. and every single time, i am asked multiple times if i'm sure he was not given any food or water after a certain point.

every single time i have had to say, "i understand that if he had food or water, he could aspirate it into his lungs under anesthesia. i am not lying to you." THEN someone would make a little note and i would stop being repeatedly asked.

not a single time was that risk explained to me. the only reason it came up was because i already knew. i still don't understand why it isn't standard pre-op counseling or pre-op check information, when me as a parent acknowledging the actual risk also put THE MEDICAL STAFF at ease because i conveyed that i had informed understanding as reason to not lie about giving my kid food.

"maybe some people will get nervous and refuse surgery" okay so they need more counseling about risks and anxiety, not less information in a way that actually does endanger their child or themselves!

[arctic-turtle-cassiopeia]

Reblogging to save a life and teach medical professionals basic communication skills

[itsthebrokenheartthatdecides]

see how easy it was to give that information!

[siryouarebeingmocked]

I'm pretty sure if a parent goes against doctors orders and harms their kid, that parent is still responsible for their actions. Is this post implying otherwise?

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

No, it's just focusing on how many medical professionals will tell patients to do or not do something and give no explanation as to why. Which can easily lead to issues because people don't know the severity of doing otherwise. They may also perceive some nuance in the phrasing that was unintended.

For a basic example, I've had a doctor tell someone to fast by saying, "Don't eat anything for 24 hours." If that patient had assumed that it was thus okay to drink stuff, that could be very dangerous. I work tech support, and I see similar things constantly.

Do not assume your doctor is doing everything on purpose, or even correctly. I have had a doctor prescribe me a lethal combination of medicine. I looked it up and refused to take them. They actually argued with me for a bit until I finally got them to check. Then I promptly got a different medication prescribed.

[beardedmrbean]

[siryouarebeingmocked]

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

We also know everyone of remote importance in the the battle of Bumfuck-Upon-Tweed, as well as everything they did in the battle.

[shieldfoss]

Why is a tax on unrealized gains so bad? if anything it seems more efficient since it doesn't punish people for transacting. Is the fear that the underlying asset is illiquid so people couldn't afford to hold it even if it was profitable? Is it just that the accounting would be annoying?

It destroys people. It leverages a tax on people, sometimes a higher amount than they've ever owned in their life, on the theory that maybe they will make that money in the future.

[brazenautomaton]

the advocates of it would say that it doesn't hurt normal people only the obscenely wealthy who they hate and want to kill

they don't notice or remember that if you're afraid someone will hurt you, and that person says you aren't worth bothering with, they are coming for you first.

[siryouarebeingmocked]

>Is it just that the accounting would be annoying?

You need to add a whole lot more infrastructure to determine what the "worth" of those unrealized gains are. Making a government program bigger rarely results in more efficiency.

Also, this gives the government a strong incentive to over-estimate the unrealized gains for more tax revenue.

Also, who says they won't continue to tax transactions?

[yourtoradorasextendedwarranty]

That's the stupid part too of course they would continue to make taxes on transactions necessary and relevant. The government can't help themselves but consistently overspend on literally everything. And that's the reason that they constantly want to raise taxes in the United States. And every other country for that matter.

Because they think money should be in their hand rather than the hands of the people who hold those things.

Sadly however, what most people don't realize is the fact that when you text unrealized games not only does the government get to overestimate what's something is worth to charge you the most they possibly can. They will also continue to find ways to charge you on it because if you think that they're going to stop at a tax like this you're out of your mind. And the one fun part about stocks or other on realized gains, like solid assets like houses and cars etc, because those are, in fact, on realized games because they are worth money in estimate. Is the fact that eventually those people are going to have to start selling things off to pay for these games that they have not received which means they are paying taxes on money that doesn't technically exist.

The dumbest part about that is that it liquidates everyone's assets all at one time. Worse than that it will actually do massive damage to most of the stock market. Which does affect the entire market.

[theconstitutionisgayculture]

Not to mention, most retirement plans are unrealized gains. This would wipe out 401ks overnight. It would destroy pensions.

[the-davest-of-uncles]

The people pushing for this are okay with a collapse.

[siryouarebeingmocked]

Bold of you to assume reds know anything about money.

[carlosmarcosapproved]

[generallemarc]

No, I was told it was bad by the numerous historical accounts of mass murder and totalitarian autocracy. It failed, it lost the Cold War, and now Europe is free. Democracy and the will of the people triumphed over one-party dictatorships from Prague to Warsaw. Get over it.

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Every day, I find a new idiocy from communists.

[carlosmarcosapproved]

[generallemarc]

No, I was told it was bad by the numerous historical accounts of mass murder and totalitarian autocracy. It failed, it lost the Cold War, and now Europe is free. Democracy and the will of the people triumphed over one-party dictatorships from Prague to Warsaw. Get over it.

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Every day, I find a new idiocy from communists.

[koenji]

A plane filled with Iraqi Jewish refugees photographed on arrival at Lod Airport outside Tel Aviv in early 1951 (Teddy Brauner, GPO).

Today, November 30th, is Jewish Refugee day or Yom HaPlitim (יום הפליטים), and we remember their stories.

Their arrival came amid a mass exodus triggered by escalating persecution in Iraq, including violent pogroms such as the 1941 Farhud, during which Jewish homes and businesses were looted and many civilians including children were murdered and wounded. Jewish girls were publicly raped. The community also faced targeted assassinations, public executions such as the infamous Baghdad hangings, and a series of bombings in 1950–1951 aimed at Iraq's Jewish community. In the late 1940s and early 1950s, Jews in Iraq were frequently arrested on fabricated charges, tortured in prison, and subjected to the banning of communal, religious and political activity. These pressures finally peaked in state-sanctioned expropriation, revocation of citizenship, and forced expatriation.

In 1951, 120,000 Iraqi Jews were issued passports for the sole purpose of emigration known as passports of No Return. A prerequisite was the waiving of all property and monetary belongings.

By the 1930s, Jews made up roughly a quarter of Baghdad’s total population, and by 1945 around 135,000 Jews lived across Iraq. Today only a handful remain.

This end of the millenia old Babylonian Jewish exile is referred to as Sant al-Tasqit.

This pattern was varied and repeated in every country across SWANA.

[blairhumphrey]

[furansunokamikaze]

These are serious people, doing what needs to be done.

The Iraqis were serious at that time; they addressed the problem at its root.

Today, look at the Iranians: they tolerated the Jewish communities of Iran, granting them the same rights and freedoms as other Iranians, and what did the Jews do ?

They participated in and collaborated with Israel against Iran.

It's the same everywhere, the Jews will always act in THEIR interests to the detriment of the natives.

They have no loyalty to anyone, not even to those who protected them, and there are plenty of examples.

[generallemarc]

Iran, a theocratic hellstate where blasphemy is punished by death, is benevolent enough to allow tiny communities of Jews to exist under heavy restrictions and mandatory duckspeaking to support the dictatorship, and those filthy kikes DARE to not support their rightful overlords?! The Ayatollah was protecting them by planning and supporting the war Hamas started, and this is how they repay him for his merciful slaughterings?!?! Monsters! They are truly our misfortune.

[furansunokamikaze]

Iran has never tried to screw over my country and no Iranian has ever called me goy.

While the kikes...

And I don't give a damn whether Iran is a theocracy or a dictatorship, it's not my country and I'm for non-intervention in a country's internal politics.

As well as for the right of Jews to return home, in a furnace then.

Oy Vey.

[generallemarc]

Hey, at least compared to all the leftists you're honest about what you are and what you want. They'll whine all day about tolerance and equality, but you've got the right mixture of guts and total delusion to proudly declare "Yes, I want these people to die because they're ontologically evil."

[furansunokamikaze]

Thank you, that's kind of you.

I prefer to debate with people who say what they think, rather than with cowards who feign remorse, solely for the purpose of being on the "right side".

Uprightness, honesty, off with the masks!

Only in this way can we have a calm and constructive debate.

And if we need to shock, then let's shock.

[generallemarc]

A constructive debate over, perhaps, your proposal that all Jews should die for the crime of being Jewish? Or your opposite-day depiction of Iran as something other than the world's harshest theocracy?

[furansunokamikaze]

The source of anti-Semitism is the Jews; they are the cause, according to them, they are hated without reason, they do nothing wrong; but it is quite the opposite.

Their misdeeds are numerous, and there is no shortage of evidence.

Showing patience with Jews is a grave mistake, a mistake I do not make.

If they must be exterminated to the last one, so be it.

If this puts an end to the spread of their ideas and projects, which are anything but beneficial (Gender/LGBT theory, endless immigration, endless war, etc...)

Regarding Iran, I am not Iranian; the fate of Iran belongs to them.

All those loud-mouthed moralists who buy themselves a conscience without seeing the shit in their own backyard can drop dead.

[generallemarc]

"It's this demographic's fault that everyone hates it". Do I need to explain the elementary-school levels of logic failures you need to get to this conclusion?

If they must be exterminated to the last one, so be it.

Do I need to explain the kindergarten levels of morality you need to not understand to say this and think it's ok?

[furansunokamikaze]

But I'm totally "OK" with that.

Total Kikes Death.

Simple to understand.

No more interference from them in each other's affairs.

Morally, it's questionable, certainly.

But I don't care.

I point, I aim, and I fire.

[generallemarc]

So you'd be totally ok with gunning down children for being born wrong. That is what you are saying here, correct? Just wanna make sure we've got the paper trail ready for if you turn into one of those retards like the guy who heroically saved immigrants from ICE by killing them.

[furansunokamikaze]

What I am saying is that if I have to choose between my people or the Jews, the choice is easy and if I have to get my hands dirty, then so be it.

Certainly, children should not have to suffer the consequences of the choices made by their parents or their governments.

But their harmful practices have been going on for a long time and it cannot be said that, THE JEWS, have no qualms whatsoever, nor the slightest qualms about murdering the children of the goyim.

Or to rape, plunder, steal.

And that is what they instill in their children, who will do as their parents do, and so on.

It goes without saying that one should have no scruples, pity, or even less mercy towards this race of vipers.

Without even blinking.

You can shove your moral lessons where the sun don't shine.

[generallemarc]

Me when I explain why I'm ok with killing children to save the world from this one group of people that just happens to be ontologically evil.

[furansunokamikaze]

Life forces you to make choices: Them or me ?

It will be them, without shame.

[generallemarc]

Sure it would. You're a very tough guy who can kill as easy as he talks about it, which is why you're declaring it so proudly to random strangers on tumblr.

[furansunokamikaze]

I never said it would be easy. It is in fact utterly abominable to take the lives of civilians; it's different when facing an adversary, an enemy; army against army, soldier against soldier.

But it is very different when it comes to the survival and prosperity of one's family or people.

The Jews have had numerous opportunities to break this vicious cycle, but they have not done so.

It goes without saying that not all Jews are bloodthirsty monsters, but I don't have superpowers, I can't know who is good or bad, so I make generalizations, like everyone else, it's human.

For more than a millennium they have followed their elites in their messianic delusions, always with their share of massacres.

And I'm supposed to be the villain, the bad guy, because I support a movement that lasted a little more than 5 years in the human history ?

They ask me to have qualms about this tribe of inbred retards, who cut off the tip of their dicks.

Who's laughs on our misfortunes ?

Who subjected my race, like others, "the goyim", to the worst possible horrors?

Who are you, you asshole, to lecture me?

Every day, in newspapers, on TV, radio, social media, etc... These fucking Jews rejoice in our misfortunes, rapes, murders and other joys, and I'm supposed to be ashamed?

Dude, I don't give a fuck about your so-called "moral superiority".

You're a piece of shit, that's all you are.

[generallemarc]

And I'm supposed to be the villain,

Dude, I don't give a fuck about your so-called "moral superiority".

Your short essay ^^^ suggests otherwise.

[celticcanon]

Well. This has certainly been one of the debates of all time.

In the blue corner we have @generallemarc representing classical liberalism and the western values of individualism that have built modern society.

In the black corner we have @furansunokamikaze representing the forces of old school tribalism that have caused almost every religious and ethnic war in history.

Who will win this grudge match?

...spoilers, its not the guy who seems to have read a bunch of excerpts from The Protocols of the Elders of Zion and decided to base his personality around them.

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Ever notice that those that extol genocide always claim to be oppressed by those they murder? How disgusting of a person does one have to be to acknowledge the repugnancy of what they advocate for and yet still claim themselves moral for it? That he carefully avoids outright stating that he supports murdering children, his blatant refusal to acknowledge being challenged on that aspect makes clear where he stands.

Tellingly, he fails to recognize that his idols did immeasurably more harm to the people who he claims to want to protect than those he wants to kill. As stupid as they were, even they realized how badly their ambitions would taint the future. Yet even with the benefit of hindsight and three-quarters of a century of the incredibly blatant effects to see, he is blind to it. It would be hilarious if it weren't so disgusting.

[robin-hood-for-freedom]

What idiot communists think 'from each according to his ability, from each according to their need means: I get to do whatever I want and be given infinite luxury goods whenever I want.

What it actually means in practice: Comrade, you are able to work 16 hours a day at the radioactive asbestos factory. And you only need flavorless gruel and a cot to sleep on. Actually scratch that, having a cot is bourgeois decadence.

[unionizeurmom]

Quick tell the socialist and former socialist states that their higher homeownership rates than any capitalist nation is bourgeoise decadence.

Lol you must be talking to babies. Which tracks if you're a libertarian or rightoid.

[generallemarc]

My guy the former socialist states are poor because of the 50 years they spent under socialism. Or are Romania and Albania akshually models of prosperity thanks to their oh-so-democratically elected socialist rulers?

[otakuvampyre]

I love how they think higher home ownership means Communism was more prosperous or something. 🤣

[cookingwithroxy]

... Does anyone want to point out that during the Communist regime there was absolutely 0 home ownership. The state owned all the housing. The reason people in these states have them NOW is because as the governments transitioned to private ownership, they essentially just gave people the houses and apartments they were already living in.

Like, it was literally 'sorting this out is too much trouble, it's your problem now.'

[leviathan-supersystem]

oh hey I missed this when I was trying to have a discussion on this post a couple days ago, but yeah, this one is a massive whopper, easily proven false.

a source explaining how home ownership worked in cuba after the revolution:

https://reimaginerpe.org/19-1/hamberg

For 50 years the great majority of Cuban households have legally owned their homes as a form of “personal property,” but with some limitations.

.

After the Cuban revolution in 1959, evictions were halted, most rents were reduced and urban land speculation was largely controlled. Through the 1960 Urban Reform Law, tenants became homeowners by amortizing the purchase price of their units through rents. Landlords and other property holders were allowed to keep their own home as well as a second vacation home. State-built housing was offered as long-term “leaseholding,” with rents set at 10 percent of family income. Private renting was prohibited. In addition, vacant units confiscated from emigrants were distributed to people in need, and the Cuban lottery was transformed into a short-lived vehicle for financing new housing. Residents of poor urban housing remained as long-term leaseholders, but by the mid-1960s, no longer paid rent.

.

The 1984 (and 1988) General Housing Laws converted most leaseholders into homeowners, legalized most illegal and ambiguous tenure situations of tens of thousands of self-builders and others, permitted free-market private rentals and sales of roof-rights, and fostered self-building by both individuals and newly permitted housing cooperatives (which never got off the ground). The only groups not converted into homeowners were residents of tenements and shantytowns, who remained rent-free leaseholders, and occupants of units directly “linked” to workplaces.

.

By the early 1990s, more than 85 percent of Cuban households were homeowners, paying little or nothing for their units except for maintenance, repair and utilities. There were no mortgages or land and property taxes. Financing for purchases of units or repair was considered a loan, not a mortgage, and therefore dwellings were not used as collateral.

article 22 of the 1976 Cuban constitution is also relevant:

these people don't bother to read or learn anything about the system they condemn, they just have an absurd caricature of that system in their head ("under communism joseph stalin owns your toothbrush and he sneaks into your house to use it every night!!!!") and then when they encounter any evidence this caricature is inaccurate they cover their ears and eyes so the devil won't use objective material facts to tempt them from the holy path of capitalism.

[cookingwithroxy]

why is it that when people are discussing eastern europe and the soviet state, your immediate reaction is 'cuba disproves this!'

Like, do you understand that Cuba. And the USSR. Are two entirely different nations with different policies and viewpoints, even if they vaguely held to the same general political model?

I had to just comment here because jesus fuck you're just not a good person.

Now again, seriously, fuck off you goddamn creeper.

[leviathan-supersystem]

first: people have been speaking in this thread about communist countries in general. if it's only true of the Soviet states and not Cuba you should specify!

second: it's not true of the Soviet states either:

Could ordinary Soviet people buy themselves an apartment?

Most apartments in the Soviet Union were distributed by the state on the basis of waiting lists. But there were other paths to becoming a ho

Most apartments in the Soviet Union were distributed by the state on the basis of waiting lists. But there were other paths to becoming a homeowner as well.

.

homeowner

.

jesus fuck you're just not a good person.

wow rude.

[yogurt-boat-69]

Americans have spent a ton of time being propagandized about communism so they often imagine, without any actual research, that it was only misery and drudgery and that only capitalism has ever allowed anyone pleasurable luxuries. Did you know that in the USSR there was a network of places for workers to take vacations? Like resorts and beach towns and health spas. It was believed that workers deserved time off and there was a voucher system to use it. History is infinitely more interesting than the flat propaganda stereotypes you've received and it's worth learning about it. Things like homes and vacations are not in fact exclusive to capitalism.

Here's an article about it. https://news.illinois.edu/vacations-part-of-soviet-unions-good-life-with-sochi-the-dream-resort/

[syabm]

"You shouldn't believe in stereotypes!" says someone making completely unbacked assumptions about why Americans hate communism.

>and that only capitalism has ever allowed anyone pleasurable luxuries.

????

Do you think anti-commie Yanks all think capitalism and communism are the only two economic systems that have ever existed?

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Ah, yes. Cuba. A model of prosperity and freedom. Also known for enviable housing, totally not run down all over. And the source? A literal propaganda blog.

The propaganda blog's source? Planners Network. A literal propaganda group. The far left constantly does self-referential BS to sound legitimate.

[leviathan-supersystem]

oh well if that source has too much of a left-wing slant for you I can find a right-wing source which will confirm the relevant facts :)

https://repository.law.miami.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1181&context=umiclr

from the extremely anti-communist article "Castro Systematic Assault on Private Ownership In Cuba":

That very same month, the Castro regime enacted an urban version of the Act, which also stripped constitutional protection from property and contract rights in yet another important societal area. Article 2A of the Urban Reform Act specifically prohibited all types of leasing and sub-leasing agreements. The Urban Reform Act went beyond proscribing any future leases. The Act rendered all existing leases of urban property null and void. Through the Urban Reform Act, the Castro regime ordered the compulsory sale of urban houses and apartments at prices fixed by the state. In order for any Cuban citizen to sell or transfer a house or apartment, the consent of the Council of Urban Reform was now required.

In addition, rents for government-built housing were capped at no more than 10% of household income. Between 1959 and 1988, nearly 1.4 million new housing units were built in Cuba. However, about half of this total housing stock is considered to be substandard

this article makes a constant effort to put an anti-communist spin on things, (considered substandard by who? in comparison to what?) but even it concedes that the Urban Reform Act cracked down on landlordism, and, significantly, acknowledges that this happened through the compulsory sale of these rental units (it plays coy about who they were sold to but the answer is "the tenants") rather than the housing simply becoming government property. and we can find numerous sources confirming Cubas current high homeownership rate:

Home Ownership by Country 2026

Data and analysis on home ownership by country, including countries with the highest percentage of home ownership and countries where the mo

Ranked: Countries with the most (and least) home ownership rate, 2025 - CEOWORLD magazine

Buying an average home in the UK is nine times more expensive than the average yearly salary. In contrast, the average American home costs o

Countries With the Highest Home Ownership Rates

Romania has the highest rate of high ownership, where over 95% of the population are homeowners.

Do you think anti-commie Yanks all think capitalism and communism are the only two economic systems that have ever existed?

@syabm

well, not *all* anti-commie yanks, but i've certainly met a lot of anti-communists who thought all societies in history could be described as being somewhere on a spectrum between capitalism and socialism, on the basis of thinking "capitalism is when there's trade, socialism is when there's state violence"- leading to the absurdity of people declaring ancient Rome to be either capitalist or socialist (largely on the basis of whether the person speaking likes Rome or not) when in reality of course ancient Rome pre-dated either capitalism or socialism.

edit: perfect example of the kind of thing i'm talking about, here's someone claiming feudalism is socialism:

(a bit of a tangent since obviously ancient Rome wasn't feudal either)

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

(considered substandard by who? in comparison to what?)

"If I just pretend to not understand they're referring to basic first-world living standards, then I don't have to acknowledge the obvious disparity."

[leviathan-supersystem]

I think the real obvious disparity here is that the homeownership rate in Cuba is 90% but it's only 65% in the USA

here's another obvious disparity:

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Wow, I wonder what influx the US has had in recent decades that was suddenly vastly expanded in the last decade and the reasons behind that.

To say nothing about you continuing to try and deflect from the low living standards.

[leviathan-supersystem]

do you think the death rate from malnutrition is unrelated to living standards?

Wow, I wonder what influx the US has had in recent decades that was suddenly vastly expanded in the last decade and the reasons behind that.

there's like 20 different ways you might be trying to go with this, but my first guess is..... immigration maybe? very dumb argument if so.

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Please, tell me how tens of millions of illegal immigrants have nothing to do with malnutrition. Does this apparent famine you've uncovered only affect the people famously not at all short of food? Surely it can't be the people just arriving from areas known to have food issues. Just because the gigantic spike correlates perfectly with the gigantic spike in illegal immigration, doesn't mean there's any sort of causation!

[leviathan-supersystem]

the current administration has massively reduced both illegal and legal immigration- as you may have noticed hunger has not improved

Low-income households face ‘remarkable’ rise in food insecurity in K-shaped economy: New York Fed

The rising threat of food insecurity is partly why Americans feel worse off than ever before, according to research by the Federal Reserve B

also, china has seen a massive influx of foreigners, and has not seen a comparable rise in malnutrition

China’s visa-free policies drive record 30 million foreign visits in 2025, immigration authority says

The National Immigration Administration reported on 14 March 2026 that 30.08 million foreigners used China’s visa-free entry options in 2025

Global Mobility News from VisaHQ

VisaHQ's Global Mobility News covers visa updates, travel regulations, and border policy changes to help travelers and businesses stay prepa

As China’s development took off, the country also has attracted growing numbers of foreign-born migrants and has emerged as an immigrant destination country,

edit: also, those "areas known to have food issues" that people are emigrating to the usa from are generally capitalist. like "oh the malnutrition death rate is going up because starving people are coming across the border" okay. why were those people from mexico starving.

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Are you serious?

First off, reducing the rate doesn't change the fact of the ones already here. Believe it or not, people keep eating. I know that's difficult for proponents of regimes that starved more people than any others in history to understand.

Second, Mexico? Illegal immigration from there has been a problem for decades, but has not remotely been the driver of the big spike. Third, visits are rather different than immigration. Your second visahq article doesn't even exist.

Fourth, if it was endemic to the population as a whole, it would naturally affect children highly. With child starvation all but non-existent, it's just not true.

[leviathan-supersystem]

First off, reducing the rate doesn't change the fact of the ones already here.

deportation does, and there's been massive deportation campaigns.

Second, Mexico? Illegal immigration from there has been a problem for decades, but has not remotely been the driver of the big spike.

the other countries which you could claim are "the driver of the big spike" are largely also capitalist

Third, visits are rather different than immigration. Your second visahq article doesn't even exist.

my apologies, I seem to have mangled the link. here it is:

China’s Rapid Development Has Transformed Its Migration Trends

China has a long history of international migration. Movement was sharply interrupted following the 1949 revolution but has rebounded in rec

Fourth, if it was endemic to the population as a whole, it would naturally affect children highly. With child starvation all but non-existent, it's just not true.

okay this is great. so, to be clear, if the child malnutrition rate is also going up significantly during that time period, we can agree that it isn't just driven by immigration, yes? okay great. i'm glad we can agree on that.

so without further ado:

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

The deportation campaign is, frankly, miniscule. Something like 750k vs tens of millions.

Wtf are you defining as capitalist?

And your Chinese immigration link...

There are more illegal immigrants in single cities in the US than immigrants in the entirety of China. So no, not even remotely similar.

As for child malnutrition, you missed the difference between stunting and starvation (wasting). Stunting will go up with illegal immigration because children that are already malnourished arrive, and stunting takes a long time to recover from, and can be permanent. Starvation, wasting in the report, does not go up significantly because those who are terminal die, contributing to the spike in mortality and thus no longer contributing to the starving statistic. Those who aren't recover relatively quickly due to getting food.

And, like I said and my source showed, childhood starvation is basically non-existent in US.

[leviathan-supersystem]

The deportation campaign is, frankly, miniscule. Something like 750k vs tens of millions.

so do you think the us government's reports of over a million people self-deporting is inaccurate?

Thanks to President Trump and Secretary Noem, More than 2.5 Million Illegal Aliens Left the U.S. | Homeland Security

DHS announced historic progress in securing the homeland, highlighting a year of record-breaking achievement of more than 2.5 million illega

also regarding "tens of millions":

on that scale the reported number of people leaving should absolutely have an impact

Wtf are you defining as capitalist?

do you think El Salvador is socialist.

As for child malnutrition, you missed the difference between stunting and starvation (wasting). [blah blah blah blah blah]

okay perhaps you will like this chart more:

And, like I said and my source showed, childhood starvation is basically non-existent in US.

not what your source says:

The United States is 'on course' to meet the target for stunting, but 3.4% of children under 5 years of age are still affected, which is higher than the average for the North America region (3.2%)

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Alright, I did misread the total number. But the current deportation campaign doesn't actually matter for these statistics. Y'know, given that they end before it begins.

Also, I like how you dismiss all the explanation of the malnutrition data just to show me that exactly what I said it would show is shown. As I said, stunting and mortality go up while starvation does not. Here's the bit you're trying to ignore:

[leviathan-supersystem]

the site you're referencing is using out of date data.

these charts end at 2017, 2018, or at best 2020.

stunting and mortality go up while starvation does not

mortality due to malnutrition is what starvation is dumbass.

so your argument is, what, people come across ro the usa (usually from other capitalist countries) and then die immediately after arrivinh due to pre-existing malnutrition? that's an extremely stupid "explanation".

Alright, I did misread the total number.

I think to have "misread" anything you would have had to have read anything, and I don't think you have.

But the current deportation campaign doesn't actually matter for these statistics. Y'know, given that they end before it begins.

it's relevant to the more recent statistics from this article, which you didn't read when I linked it earlier in the thread because you're illiterate:

Low-income households face ‘remarkable’ rise in food insecurity in K-shaped economy: New York Fed

The rising threat of food insecurity is partly why Americans feel worse off than ever before, according to research by the Federal Reserve B

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

2022 actually, about the same as yours. You'd have to actually read though. And an article about mood is far from showing starvation. But I have already explained three times what the statistics mean, and you insist on pretending half of the statistics don't exist in order to make points that are blatantly contradicted by them.

Was kind of hoping that you'd notice that you can look up other countries. Then you'd find they also show that your precious communist countries have childhood starvation over an order of magnitude higher. But pearls before swine and all that.

[robin-hood-for-freedom]

What idiot communists think 'from each according to his ability, from each according to their need means: I get to do whatever I want and be given infinite luxury goods whenever I want.

What it actually means in practice: Comrade, you are able to work 16 hours a day at the radioactive asbestos factory. And you only need flavorless gruel and a cot to sleep on. Actually scratch that, having a cot is bourgeois decadence.

[unionizeurmom]

Quick tell the socialist and former socialist states that their higher homeownership rates than any capitalist nation is bourgeoise decadence.

Lol you must be talking to babies. Which tracks if you're a libertarian or rightoid.

[generallemarc]

My guy the former socialist states are poor because of the 50 years they spent under socialism. Or are Romania and Albania akshually models of prosperity thanks to their oh-so-democratically elected socialist rulers?

[otakuvampyre]

I love how they think higher home ownership means Communism was more prosperous or something. 🤣

[cookingwithroxy]

... Does anyone want to point out that during the Communist regime there was absolutely 0 home ownership. The state owned all the housing. The reason people in these states have them NOW is because as the governments transitioned to private ownership, they essentially just gave people the houses and apartments they were already living in.

Like, it was literally 'sorting this out is too much trouble, it's your problem now.'

[leviathan-supersystem]

oh hey I missed this when I was trying to have a discussion on this post a couple days ago, but yeah, this one is a massive whopper, easily proven false.

a source explaining how home ownership worked in cuba after the revolution:

https://reimaginerpe.org/19-1/hamberg

For 50 years the great majority of Cuban households have legally owned their homes as a form of “personal property,” but with some limitations.

.

After the Cuban revolution in 1959, evictions were halted, most rents were reduced and urban land speculation was largely controlled. Through the 1960 Urban Reform Law, tenants became homeowners by amortizing the purchase price of their units through rents. Landlords and other property holders were allowed to keep their own home as well as a second vacation home. State-built housing was offered as long-term “leaseholding,” with rents set at 10 percent of family income. Private renting was prohibited. In addition, vacant units confiscated from emigrants were distributed to people in need, and the Cuban lottery was transformed into a short-lived vehicle for financing new housing. Residents of poor urban housing remained as long-term leaseholders, but by the mid-1960s, no longer paid rent.

.

The 1984 (and 1988) General Housing Laws converted most leaseholders into homeowners, legalized most illegal and ambiguous tenure situations of tens of thousands of self-builders and others, permitted free-market private rentals and sales of roof-rights, and fostered self-building by both individuals and newly permitted housing cooperatives (which never got off the ground). The only groups not converted into homeowners were residents of tenements and shantytowns, who remained rent-free leaseholders, and occupants of units directly “linked” to workplaces.

.

By the early 1990s, more than 85 percent of Cuban households were homeowners, paying little or nothing for their units except for maintenance, repair and utilities. There were no mortgages or land and property taxes. Financing for purchases of units or repair was considered a loan, not a mortgage, and therefore dwellings were not used as collateral.

article 22 of the 1976 Cuban constitution is also relevant:

these people don't bother to read or learn anything about the system they condemn, they just have an absurd caricature of that system in their head ("under communism joseph stalin owns your toothbrush and he sneaks into your house to use it every night!!!!") and then when they encounter any evidence this caricature is inaccurate they cover their ears and eyes so the devil won't use objective material facts to tempt them from the holy path of capitalism.

[cookingwithroxy]

why is it that when people are discussing eastern europe and the soviet state, your immediate reaction is 'cuba disproves this!'

Like, do you understand that Cuba. And the USSR. Are two entirely different nations with different policies and viewpoints, even if they vaguely held to the same general political model?

I had to just comment here because jesus fuck you're just not a good person.

Now again, seriously, fuck off you goddamn creeper.

[leviathan-supersystem]

first: people have been speaking in this thread about communist countries in general. if it's only true of the Soviet states and not Cuba you should specify!

second: it's not true of the Soviet states either:

Could ordinary Soviet people buy themselves an apartment?

Most apartments in the Soviet Union were distributed by the state on the basis of waiting lists. But there were other paths to becoming a ho

Most apartments in the Soviet Union were distributed by the state on the basis of waiting lists. But there were other paths to becoming a homeowner as well.

.

homeowner

.

jesus fuck you're just not a good person.

wow rude.

[yogurt-boat-69]

Americans have spent a ton of time being propagandized about communism so they often imagine, without any actual research, that it was only misery and drudgery and that only capitalism has ever allowed anyone pleasurable luxuries. Did you know that in the USSR there was a network of places for workers to take vacations? Like resorts and beach towns and health spas. It was believed that workers deserved time off and there was a voucher system to use it. History is infinitely more interesting than the flat propaganda stereotypes you've received and it's worth learning about it. Things like homes and vacations are not in fact exclusive to capitalism.

Here's an article about it. https://news.illinois.edu/vacations-part-of-soviet-unions-good-life-with-sochi-the-dream-resort/

[syabm]

"You shouldn't believe in stereotypes!" says someone making completely unbacked assumptions about why Americans hate communism.

>and that only capitalism has ever allowed anyone pleasurable luxuries.

????

Do you think anti-commie Yanks all think capitalism and communism are the only two economic systems that have ever existed?

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Ah, yes. Cuba. A model of prosperity and freedom. Also known for enviable housing, totally not run down all over. And the source? A literal propaganda blog.

The propaganda blog's source? Planners Network. A literal propaganda group. The far left constantly does self-referential BS to sound legitimate.

[leviathan-supersystem]

oh well if that source has too much of a left-wing slant for you I can find a right-wing source which will confirm the relevant facts :)

https://repository.law.miami.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1181&context=umiclr

from the extremely anti-communist article "Castro Systematic Assault on Private Ownership In Cuba":

That very same month, the Castro regime enacted an urban version of the Act, which also stripped constitutional protection from property and contract rights in yet another important societal area. Article 2A of the Urban Reform Act specifically prohibited all types of leasing and sub-leasing agreements. The Urban Reform Act went beyond proscribing any future leases. The Act rendered all existing leases of urban property null and void. Through the Urban Reform Act, the Castro regime ordered the compulsory sale of urban houses and apartments at prices fixed by the state. In order for any Cuban citizen to sell or transfer a house or apartment, the consent of the Council of Urban Reform was now required.

In addition, rents for government-built housing were capped at no more than 10% of household income. Between 1959 and 1988, nearly 1.4 million new housing units were built in Cuba. However, about half of this total housing stock is considered to be substandard

this article makes a constant effort to put an anti-communist spin on things, (considered substandard by who? in comparison to what?) but even it concedes that the Urban Reform Act cracked down on landlordism, and, significantly, acknowledges that this happened through the compulsory sale of these rental units (it plays coy about who they were sold to but the answer is "the tenants") rather than the housing simply becoming government property. and we can find numerous sources confirming Cubas current high homeownership rate:

Home Ownership by Country 2026

Data and analysis on home ownership by country, including countries with the highest percentage of home ownership and countries where the mo

Ranked: Countries with the most (and least) home ownership rate, 2025 - CEOWORLD magazine

Buying an average home in the UK is nine times more expensive than the average yearly salary. In contrast, the average American home costs o

Countries With the Highest Home Ownership Rates

Romania has the highest rate of high ownership, where over 95% of the population are homeowners.

Do you think anti-commie Yanks all think capitalism and communism are the only two economic systems that have ever existed?

@syabm

well, not *all* anti-commie yanks, but i've certainly met a lot of anti-communists who thought all societies in history could be described as being somewhere on a spectrum between capitalism and socialism, on the basis of thinking "capitalism is when there's trade, socialism is when there's state violence"- leading to the absurdity of people declaring ancient Rome to be either capitalist or socialist (largely on the basis of whether the person speaking likes Rome or not) when in reality of course ancient Rome pre-dated either capitalism or socialism.

edit: perfect example of the kind of thing i'm talking about, here's someone claiming feudalism is socialism:

(a bit of a tangent since obviously ancient Rome wasn't feudal either)

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

(considered substandard by who? in comparison to what?)

"If I just pretend to not understand they're referring to basic first-world living standards, then I don't have to acknowledge the obvious disparity."

[leviathan-supersystem]

I think the real obvious disparity here is that the homeownership rate in Cuba is 90% but it's only 65% in the USA

here's another obvious disparity:

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Wow, I wonder what influx the US has had in recent decades that was suddenly vastly expanded in the last decade and the reasons behind that.

To say nothing about you continuing to try and deflect from the low living standards.

[leviathan-supersystem]

do you think the death rate from malnutrition is unrelated to living standards?

Wow, I wonder what influx the US has had in recent decades that was suddenly vastly expanded in the last decade and the reasons behind that.

there's like 20 different ways you might be trying to go with this, but my first guess is..... immigration maybe? very dumb argument if so.

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Please, tell me how tens of millions of illegal immigrants have nothing to do with malnutrition. Does this apparent famine you've uncovered only affect the people famously not at all short of food? Surely it can't be the people just arriving from areas known to have food issues. Just because the gigantic spike correlates perfectly with the gigantic spike in illegal immigration, doesn't mean there's any sort of causation!

[leviathan-supersystem]

the current administration has massively reduced both illegal and legal immigration- as you may have noticed hunger has not improved

Low-income households face ‘remarkable’ rise in food insecurity in K-shaped economy: New York Fed

The rising threat of food insecurity is partly why Americans feel worse off than ever before, according to research by the Federal Reserve B

also, china has seen a massive influx of foreigners, and has not seen a comparable rise in malnutrition

China’s visa-free policies drive record 30 million foreign visits in 2025, immigration authority says

The National Immigration Administration reported on 14 March 2026 that 30.08 million foreigners used China’s visa-free entry options in 2025

Global Mobility News from VisaHQ

VisaHQ's Global Mobility News covers visa updates, travel regulations, and border policy changes to help travelers and businesses stay prepa

As China’s development took off, the country also has attracted growing numbers of foreign-born migrants and has emerged as an immigrant destination country,

edit: also, those "areas known to have food issues" that people are emigrating to the usa from are generally capitalist. like "oh the malnutrition death rate is going up because starving people are coming across the border" okay. why were those people from mexico starving.

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Are you serious?

First off, reducing the rate doesn't change the fact of the ones already here. Believe it or not, people keep eating. I know that's difficult for proponents of regimes that starved more people than any others in history to understand.

Second, Mexico? Illegal immigration from there has been a problem for decades, but has not remotely been the driver of the big spike. Third, visits are rather different than immigration. Your second visahq article doesn't even exist.

Fourth, if it was endemic to the population as a whole, it would naturally affect children highly. With child starvation all but non-existent, it's just not true.

[leviathan-supersystem]

First off, reducing the rate doesn't change the fact of the ones already here.

deportation does, and there's been massive deportation campaigns.

Second, Mexico? Illegal immigration from there has been a problem for decades, but has not remotely been the driver of the big spike.

the other countries which you could claim are "the driver of the big spike" are largely also capitalist

Third, visits are rather different than immigration. Your second visahq article doesn't even exist.

my apologies, I seem to have mangled the link. here it is:

China’s Rapid Development Has Transformed Its Migration Trends

China has a long history of international migration. Movement was sharply interrupted following the 1949 revolution but has rebounded in rec

Fourth, if it was endemic to the population as a whole, it would naturally affect children highly. With child starvation all but non-existent, it's just not true.

okay this is great. so, to be clear, if the child malnutrition rate is also going up significantly during that time period, we can agree that it isn't just driven by immigration, yes? okay great. i'm glad we can agree on that.

so without further ado:

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

The deportation campaign is, frankly, miniscule. Something like 750k vs tens of millions.

Wtf are you defining as capitalist?

And your Chinese immigration link...

There are more illegal immigrants in single cities in the US than immigrants in the entirety of China. So no, not even remotely similar.

As for child malnutrition, you missed the difference between stunting and starvation (wasting). Stunting will go up with illegal immigration because children that are already malnourished arrive, and stunting takes a long time to recover from, and can be permanent. Starvation, wasting in the report, does not go up significantly because those who are terminal die, contributing to the spike in mortality and thus no longer contributing to the starving statistic. Those who aren't recover relatively quickly due to getting food.

And, like I said and my source showed, childhood starvation is basically non-existent in US.

[leviathan-supersystem]

The deportation campaign is, frankly, miniscule. Something like 750k vs tens of millions.

so do you think the us government's reports of over a million people self-deporting is inaccurate?

Thanks to President Trump and Secretary Noem, More than 2.5 Million Illegal Aliens Left the U.S. | Homeland Security

DHS announced historic progress in securing the homeland, highlighting a year of record-breaking achievement of more than 2.5 million illega

also regarding "tens of millions":

on that scale the reported number of people leaving should absolutely have an impact

Wtf are you defining as capitalist?

do you think El Salvador is socialist.

As for child malnutrition, you missed the difference between stunting and starvation (wasting). [blah blah blah blah blah]

okay perhaps you will like this chart more:

And, like I said and my source showed, childhood starvation is basically non-existent in US.

not what your source says:

The United States is 'on course' to meet the target for stunting, but 3.4% of children under 5 years of age are still affected, which is higher than the average for the North America region (3.2%)

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Alright, I did misread the total number. But the current deportation campaign doesn't actually matter for these statistics. Y'know, given that they end before it begins.

Also, I like how you dismiss all the explanation of the malnutrition data just to show me that exactly what I said it would show is shown. As I said, stunting and mortality go up while starvation does not. Here's the bit you're trying to ignore:

[robin-hood-for-freedom]

What idiot communists think 'from each according to his ability, from each according to their need means: I get to do whatever I want and be given infinite luxury goods whenever I want.

What it actually means in practice: Comrade, you are able to work 16 hours a day at the radioactive asbestos factory. And you only need flavorless gruel and a cot to sleep on. Actually scratch that, having a cot is bourgeois decadence.

[unionizeurmom]

Quick tell the socialist and former socialist states that their higher homeownership rates than any capitalist nation is bourgeoise decadence.

Lol you must be talking to babies. Which tracks if you're a libertarian or rightoid.

[generallemarc]

My guy the former socialist states are poor because of the 50 years they spent under socialism. Or are Romania and Albania akshually models of prosperity thanks to their oh-so-democratically elected socialist rulers?

[otakuvampyre]

I love how they think higher home ownership means Communism was more prosperous or something. 🤣

[cookingwithroxy]

... Does anyone want to point out that during the Communist regime there was absolutely 0 home ownership. The state owned all the housing. The reason people in these states have them NOW is because as the governments transitioned to private ownership, they essentially just gave people the houses and apartments they were already living in.

Like, it was literally 'sorting this out is too much trouble, it's your problem now.'

[leviathan-supersystem]

oh hey I missed this when I was trying to have a discussion on this post a couple days ago, but yeah, this one is a massive whopper, easily proven false.

a source explaining how home ownership worked in cuba after the revolution:

https://reimaginerpe.org/19-1/hamberg

For 50 years the great majority of Cuban households have legally owned their homes as a form of “personal property,” but with some limitations.

.

After the Cuban revolution in 1959, evictions were halted, most rents were reduced and urban land speculation was largely controlled. Through the 1960 Urban Reform Law, tenants became homeowners by amortizing the purchase price of their units through rents. Landlords and other property holders were allowed to keep their own home as well as a second vacation home. State-built housing was offered as long-term “leaseholding,” with rents set at 10 percent of family income. Private renting was prohibited. In addition, vacant units confiscated from emigrants were distributed to people in need, and the Cuban lottery was transformed into a short-lived vehicle for financing new housing. Residents of poor urban housing remained as long-term leaseholders, but by the mid-1960s, no longer paid rent.

.

The 1984 (and 1988) General Housing Laws converted most leaseholders into homeowners, legalized most illegal and ambiguous tenure situations of tens of thousands of self-builders and others, permitted free-market private rentals and sales of roof-rights, and fostered self-building by both individuals and newly permitted housing cooperatives (which never got off the ground). The only groups not converted into homeowners were residents of tenements and shantytowns, who remained rent-free leaseholders, and occupants of units directly “linked” to workplaces.

.

By the early 1990s, more than 85 percent of Cuban households were homeowners, paying little or nothing for their units except for maintenance, repair and utilities. There were no mortgages or land and property taxes. Financing for purchases of units or repair was considered a loan, not a mortgage, and therefore dwellings were not used as collateral.

article 22 of the 1976 Cuban constitution is also relevant:

these people don't bother to read or learn anything about the system they condemn, they just have an absurd caricature of that system in their head ("under communism joseph stalin owns your toothbrush and he sneaks into your house to use it every night!!!!") and then when they encounter any evidence this caricature is inaccurate they cover their ears and eyes so the devil won't use objective material facts to tempt them from the holy path of capitalism.

[cookingwithroxy]

why is it that when people are discussing eastern europe and the soviet state, your immediate reaction is 'cuba disproves this!'

Like, do you understand that Cuba. And the USSR. Are two entirely different nations with different policies and viewpoints, even if they vaguely held to the same general political model?

I had to just comment here because jesus fuck you're just not a good person.

Now again, seriously, fuck off you goddamn creeper.

[leviathan-supersystem]

first: people have been speaking in this thread about communist countries in general. if it's only true of the Soviet states and not Cuba you should specify!

second: it's not true of the Soviet states either:

Could ordinary Soviet people buy themselves an apartment?

Most apartments in the Soviet Union were distributed by the state on the basis of waiting lists. But there were other paths to becoming a ho

Most apartments in the Soviet Union were distributed by the state on the basis of waiting lists. But there were other paths to becoming a homeowner as well.

.

homeowner

.

jesus fuck you're just not a good person.

wow rude.

[yogurt-boat-69]

Americans have spent a ton of time being propagandized about communism so they often imagine, without any actual research, that it was only misery and drudgery and that only capitalism has ever allowed anyone pleasurable luxuries. Did you know that in the USSR there was a network of places for workers to take vacations? Like resorts and beach towns and health spas. It was believed that workers deserved time off and there was a voucher system to use it. History is infinitely more interesting than the flat propaganda stereotypes you've received and it's worth learning about it. Things like homes and vacations are not in fact exclusive to capitalism.

Here's an article about it. https://news.illinois.edu/vacations-part-of-soviet-unions-good-life-with-sochi-the-dream-resort/

[syabm]

"You shouldn't believe in stereotypes!" says someone making completely unbacked assumptions about why Americans hate communism.

>and that only capitalism has ever allowed anyone pleasurable luxuries.

????

Do you think anti-commie Yanks all think capitalism and communism are the only two economic systems that have ever existed?

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Ah, yes. Cuba. A model of prosperity and freedom. Also known for enviable housing, totally not run down all over. And the source? A literal propaganda blog.

The propaganda blog's source? Planners Network. A literal propaganda group. The far left constantly does self-referential BS to sound legitimate.

[leviathan-supersystem]

oh well if that source has too much of a left-wing slant for you I can find a right-wing source which will confirm the relevant facts :)

https://repository.law.miami.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1181&context=umiclr

from the extremely anti-communist article "Castro Systematic Assault on Private Ownership In Cuba":

That very same month, the Castro regime enacted an urban version of the Act, which also stripped constitutional protection from property and contract rights in yet another important societal area. Article 2A of the Urban Reform Act specifically prohibited all types of leasing and sub-leasing agreements. The Urban Reform Act went beyond proscribing any future leases. The Act rendered all existing leases of urban property null and void. Through the Urban Reform Act, the Castro regime ordered the compulsory sale of urban houses and apartments at prices fixed by the state. In order for any Cuban citizen to sell or transfer a house or apartment, the consent of the Council of Urban Reform was now required.

In addition, rents for government-built housing were capped at no more than 10% of household income. Between 1959 and 1988, nearly 1.4 million new housing units were built in Cuba. However, about half of this total housing stock is considered to be substandard

this article makes a constant effort to put an anti-communist spin on things, (considered substandard by who? in comparison to what?) but even it concedes that the Urban Reform Act cracked down on landlordism, and, significantly, acknowledges that this happened through the compulsory sale of these rental units (it plays coy about who they were sold to but the answer is "the tenants") rather than the housing simply becoming government property. and we can find numerous sources confirming Cubas current high homeownership rate:

Home Ownership by Country 2026

Data and analysis on home ownership by country, including countries with the highest percentage of home ownership and countries where the mo

Ranked: Countries with the most (and least) home ownership rate, 2025 - CEOWORLD magazine

Buying an average home in the UK is nine times more expensive than the average yearly salary. In contrast, the average American home costs o

Countries With the Highest Home Ownership Rates

Romania has the highest rate of high ownership, where over 95% of the population are homeowners.

Do you think anti-commie Yanks all think capitalism and communism are the only two economic systems that have ever existed?

@syabm

well, not *all* anti-commie yanks, but i've certainly met a lot of anti-communists who thought all societies in history could be described as being somewhere on a spectrum between capitalism and socialism, on the basis of thinking "capitalism is when there's trade, socialism is when there's state violence"- leading to the absurdity of people declaring ancient Rome to be either capitalist or socialist (largely on the basis of whether the person speaking likes Rome or not) when in reality of course ancient Rome pre-dated either capitalism or socialism.

edit: perfect example of the kind of thing i'm talking about, here's someone claiming feudalism is socialism:

(a bit of a tangent since obviously ancient Rome wasn't feudal either)

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

(considered substandard by who? in comparison to what?)

"If I just pretend to not understand they're referring to basic first-world living standards, then I don't have to acknowledge the obvious disparity."

[leviathan-supersystem]

I think the real obvious disparity here is that the homeownership rate in Cuba is 90% but it's only 65% in the USA

here's another obvious disparity:

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Wow, I wonder what influx the US has had in recent decades that was suddenly vastly expanded in the last decade and the reasons behind that.

To say nothing about you continuing to try and deflect from the low living standards.

[leviathan-supersystem]

do you think the death rate from malnutrition is unrelated to living standards?

Wow, I wonder what influx the US has had in recent decades that was suddenly vastly expanded in the last decade and the reasons behind that.

there's like 20 different ways you might be trying to go with this, but my first guess is..... immigration maybe? very dumb argument if so.

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Please, tell me how tens of millions of illegal immigrants have nothing to do with malnutrition. Does this apparent famine you've uncovered only affect the people famously not at all short of food? Surely it can't be the people just arriving from areas known to have food issues. Just because the gigantic spike correlates perfectly with the gigantic spike in illegal immigration, doesn't mean there's any sort of causation!

[leviathan-supersystem]

the current administration has massively reduced both illegal and legal immigration- as you may have noticed hunger has not improved

Low-income households face ‘remarkable’ rise in food insecurity in K-shaped economy: New York Fed

The rising threat of food insecurity is partly why Americans feel worse off than ever before, according to research by the Federal Reserve B

also, china has seen a massive influx of foreigners, and has not seen a comparable rise in malnutrition

China’s visa-free policies drive record 30 million foreign visits in 2025, immigration authority says

The National Immigration Administration reported on 14 March 2026 that 30.08 million foreigners used China’s visa-free entry options in 2025

Global Mobility News from VisaHQ

VisaHQ's Global Mobility News covers visa updates, travel regulations, and border policy changes to help travelers and businesses stay prepa

As China’s development took off, the country also has attracted growing numbers of foreign-born migrants and has emerged as an immigrant destination country,

edit: also, those "areas known to have food issues" that people are emigrating to the usa from are generally capitalist. like "oh the malnutrition death rate is going up because starving people are coming across the border" okay. why were those people from mexico starving.

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Are you serious?

First off, reducing the rate doesn't change the fact of the ones already here. Believe it or not, people keep eating. I know that's difficult for proponents of regimes that starved more people than any others in history to understand.

Second, Mexico? Illegal immigration from there has been a problem for decades, but has not remotely been the driver of the big spike. Third, visits are rather different than immigration. Your second visahq article doesn't even exist.

Fourth, if it was endemic to the population as a whole, it would naturally affect children highly. With child starvation all but non-existent, it's just not true.

[leviathan-supersystem]

First off, reducing the rate doesn't change the fact of the ones already here.

deportation does, and there's been massive deportation campaigns.

Second, Mexico? Illegal immigration from there has been a problem for decades, but has not remotely been the driver of the big spike.

the other countries which you could claim are "the driver of the big spike" are largely also capitalist

Third, visits are rather different than immigration. Your second visahq article doesn't even exist.

my apologies, I seem to have mangled the link. here it is:

China’s Rapid Development Has Transformed Its Migration Trends

China has a long history of international migration. Movement was sharply interrupted following the 1949 revolution but has rebounded in rec

Fourth, if it was endemic to the population as a whole, it would naturally affect children highly. With child starvation all but non-existent, it's just not true.

okay this is great. so, to be clear, if the child malnutrition rate is also going up significantly during that time period, we can agree that it isn't just driven by immigration, yes? okay great. i'm glad we can agree on that.

so without further ado:

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

The deportation campaign is, frankly, miniscule. Something like 750k vs tens of millions.

Wtf are you defining as capitalist?

And your Chinese immigration link...

There are more illegal immigrants in single cities in the US than immigrants in the entirety of China. So no, not even remotely similar.

As for child malnutrition, you missed the difference between stunting and starvation (wasting). Stunting will go up with illegal immigration because children that are already malnourished arrive, and stunting takes a long time to recover from, and can be permanent. Starvation, wasting in the report, does not go up significantly because those who are terminal die, contributing to the spike in mortality and thus no longer contributing to the starving statistic. Those who aren't recover relatively quickly due to getting food.

And, like I said and my source showed, childhood starvation is basically non-existent in US.

[robin-hood-for-freedom]

What idiot communists think 'from each according to his ability, from each according to their need means: I get to do whatever I want and be given infinite luxury goods whenever I want.

What it actually means in practice: Comrade, you are able to work 16 hours a day at the radioactive asbestos factory. And you only need flavorless gruel and a cot to sleep on. Actually scratch that, having a cot is bourgeois decadence.

[unionizeurmom]

Quick tell the socialist and former socialist states that their higher homeownership rates than any capitalist nation is bourgeoise decadence.

Lol you must be talking to babies. Which tracks if you're a libertarian or rightoid.

[generallemarc]

My guy the former socialist states are poor because of the 50 years they spent under socialism. Or are Romania and Albania akshually models of prosperity thanks to their oh-so-democratically elected socialist rulers?

[otakuvampyre]

I love how they think higher home ownership means Communism was more prosperous or something. 🤣

[cookingwithroxy]

... Does anyone want to point out that during the Communist regime there was absolutely 0 home ownership. The state owned all the housing. The reason people in these states have them NOW is because as the governments transitioned to private ownership, they essentially just gave people the houses and apartments they were already living in.

Like, it was literally 'sorting this out is too much trouble, it's your problem now.'

[leviathan-supersystem]

oh hey I missed this when I was trying to have a discussion on this post a couple days ago, but yeah, this one is a massive whopper, easily proven false.

a source explaining how home ownership worked in cuba after the revolution:

https://reimaginerpe.org/19-1/hamberg

For 50 years the great majority of Cuban households have legally owned their homes as a form of “personal property,” but with some limitations.

.

After the Cuban revolution in 1959, evictions were halted, most rents were reduced and urban land speculation was largely controlled. Through the 1960 Urban Reform Law, tenants became homeowners by amortizing the purchase price of their units through rents. Landlords and other property holders were allowed to keep their own home as well as a second vacation home. State-built housing was offered as long-term “leaseholding,” with rents set at 10 percent of family income. Private renting was prohibited. In addition, vacant units confiscated from emigrants were distributed to people in need, and the Cuban lottery was transformed into a short-lived vehicle for financing new housing. Residents of poor urban housing remained as long-term leaseholders, but by the mid-1960s, no longer paid rent.

.

The 1984 (and 1988) General Housing Laws converted most leaseholders into homeowners, legalized most illegal and ambiguous tenure situations of tens of thousands of self-builders and others, permitted free-market private rentals and sales of roof-rights, and fostered self-building by both individuals and newly permitted housing cooperatives (which never got off the ground). The only groups not converted into homeowners were residents of tenements and shantytowns, who remained rent-free leaseholders, and occupants of units directly “linked” to workplaces.

.

By the early 1990s, more than 85 percent of Cuban households were homeowners, paying little or nothing for their units except for maintenance, repair and utilities. There were no mortgages or land and property taxes. Financing for purchases of units or repair was considered a loan, not a mortgage, and therefore dwellings were not used as collateral.

article 22 of the 1976 Cuban constitution is also relevant:

these people don't bother to read or learn anything about the system they condemn, they just have an absurd caricature of that system in their head ("under communism joseph stalin owns your toothbrush and he sneaks into your house to use it every night!!!!") and then when they encounter any evidence this caricature is inaccurate they cover their ears and eyes so the devil won't use objective material facts to tempt them from the holy path of capitalism.

[cookingwithroxy]

why is it that when people are discussing eastern europe and the soviet state, your immediate reaction is 'cuba disproves this!'

Like, do you understand that Cuba. And the USSR. Are two entirely different nations with different policies and viewpoints, even if they vaguely held to the same general political model?

I had to just comment here because jesus fuck you're just not a good person.

Now again, seriously, fuck off you goddamn creeper.

[leviathan-supersystem]

first: people have been speaking in this thread about communist countries in general. if it's only true of the Soviet states and not Cuba you should specify!

second: it's not true of the Soviet states either:

Could ordinary Soviet people buy themselves an apartment?

Most apartments in the Soviet Union were distributed by the state on the basis of waiting lists. But there were other paths to becoming a ho

Most apartments in the Soviet Union were distributed by the state on the basis of waiting lists. But there were other paths to becoming a homeowner as well.

.

homeowner

.

jesus fuck you're just not a good person.

wow rude.

[yogurt-boat-69]

Americans have spent a ton of time being propagandized about communism so they often imagine, without any actual research, that it was only misery and drudgery and that only capitalism has ever allowed anyone pleasurable luxuries. Did you know that in the USSR there was a network of places for workers to take vacations? Like resorts and beach towns and health spas. It was believed that workers deserved time off and there was a voucher system to use it. History is infinitely more interesting than the flat propaganda stereotypes you've received and it's worth learning about it. Things like homes and vacations are not in fact exclusive to capitalism.

Here's an article about it. https://news.illinois.edu/vacations-part-of-soviet-unions-good-life-with-sochi-the-dream-resort/

[syabm]

"You shouldn't believe in stereotypes!" says someone making completely unbacked assumptions about why Americans hate communism.

>and that only capitalism has ever allowed anyone pleasurable luxuries.

????

Do you think anti-commie Yanks all think capitalism and communism are the only two economic systems that have ever existed?

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Ah, yes. Cuba. A model of prosperity and freedom. Also known for enviable housing, totally not run down all over. And the source? A literal propaganda blog.

The propaganda blog's source? Planners Network. A literal propaganda group. The far left constantly does self-referential BS to sound legitimate.

[leviathan-supersystem]

oh well if that source has too much of a left-wing slant for you I can find a right-wing source which will confirm the relevant facts :)

https://repository.law.miami.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1181&context=umiclr

from the extremely anti-communist article "Castro Systematic Assault on Private Ownership In Cuba":

That very same month, the Castro regime enacted an urban version of the Act, which also stripped constitutional protection from property and contract rights in yet another important societal area. Article 2A of the Urban Reform Act specifically prohibited all types of leasing and sub-leasing agreements. The Urban Reform Act went beyond proscribing any future leases. The Act rendered all existing leases of urban property null and void. Through the Urban Reform Act, the Castro regime ordered the compulsory sale of urban houses and apartments at prices fixed by the state. In order for any Cuban citizen to sell or transfer a house or apartment, the consent of the Council of Urban Reform was now required.

In addition, rents for government-built housing were capped at no more than 10% of household income. Between 1959 and 1988, nearly 1.4 million new housing units were built in Cuba. However, about half of this total housing stock is considered to be substandard

this article makes a constant effort to put an anti-communist spin on things, (considered substandard by who? in comparison to what?) but even it concedes that the Urban Reform Act cracked down on landlordism, and, significantly, acknowledges that this happened through the compulsory sale of these rental units (it plays coy about who they were sold to but the answer is "the tenants") rather than the housing simply becoming government property. and we can find numerous sources confirming Cubas current high homeownership rate:

Home Ownership by Country 2026

Data and analysis on home ownership by country, including countries with the highest percentage of home ownership and countries where the mo

Ranked: Countries with the most (and least) home ownership rate, 2025 - CEOWORLD magazine

Buying an average home in the UK is nine times more expensive than the average yearly salary. In contrast, the average American home costs o

Countries With the Highest Home Ownership Rates

Romania has the highest rate of high ownership, where over 95% of the population are homeowners.

Do you think anti-commie Yanks all think capitalism and communism are the only two economic systems that have ever existed?

@syabm

well, not *all* anti-commie yanks, but i've certainly met a lot of anti-communists who thought all societies in history could be described as being somewhere on a spectrum between capitalism and socialism, on the basis of thinking "capitalism is when there's trade, socialism is when there's state violence"- leading to the absurdity of people declaring ancient Rome to be either capitalist or socialist (largely on the basis of whether the person speaking likes Rome or not) when in reality of course ancient Rome pre-dated either capitalism or socialism.

edit: perfect example of the kind of thing i'm talking about, here's someone claiming feudalism is socialism:

(a bit of a tangent since obviously ancient Rome wasn't feudal either)

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

(considered substandard by who? in comparison to what?)

"If I just pretend to not understand they're referring to basic first-world living standards, then I don't have to acknowledge the obvious disparity."

[leviathan-supersystem]

I think the real obvious disparity here is that the homeownership rate in Cuba is 90% but it's only 65% in the USA

here's another obvious disparity:

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Wow, I wonder what influx the US has had in recent decades that was suddenly vastly expanded in the last decade and the reasons behind that.

To say nothing about you continuing to try and deflect from the low living standards.

[leviathan-supersystem]

do you think the death rate from malnutrition is unrelated to living standards?

Wow, I wonder what influx the US has had in recent decades that was suddenly vastly expanded in the last decade and the reasons behind that.

there's like 20 different ways you might be trying to go with this, but my first guess is..... immigration maybe? very dumb argument if so.

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Please, tell me how tens of millions of illegal immigrants have nothing to do with malnutrition. Does this apparent famine you've uncovered only affect the people famously not at all short of food? Surely it can't be the people just arriving from areas known to have food issues. Just because the gigantic spike correlates perfectly with the gigantic spike in illegal immigration, doesn't mean there's any sort of causation!

[leviathan-supersystem]

the current administration has massively reduced both illegal and legal immigration- as you may have noticed hunger has not improved

Low-income households face ‘remarkable’ rise in food insecurity in K-shaped economy: New York Fed

The rising threat of food insecurity is partly why Americans feel worse off than ever before, according to research by the Federal Reserve B

also, china has seen a massive influx of foreigners, and has not seen a comparable rise in malnutrition

China’s visa-free policies drive record 30 million foreign visits in 2025, immigration authority says

The National Immigration Administration reported on 14 March 2026 that 30.08 million foreigners used China’s visa-free entry options in 2025

Global Mobility News from VisaHQ

VisaHQ's Global Mobility News covers visa updates, travel regulations, and border policy changes to help travelers and businesses stay prepa

As China’s development took off, the country also has attracted growing numbers of foreign-born migrants and has emerged as an immigrant destination country,

edit: also, those "areas known to have food issues" that people are emigrating to the usa from are generally capitalist. like "oh the malnutrition death rate is going up because starving people are coming across the border" okay. why were those people from mexico starving.

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Are you serious?

First off, reducing the rate doesn't change the fact of the ones already here. Believe it or not, people keep eating. I know that's difficult for proponents of regimes that starved more people than any others in history to understand.

Second, Mexico? Illegal immigration from there has been a problem for decades, but has not remotely been the driver of the big spike. Third, visits are rather different than immigration. Your second visahq article doesn't even exist.

Fourth, if it was endemic to the population as a whole, it would naturally affect children highly. With child starvation all but non-existent, it's just not true.

[robin-hood-for-freedom]

What idiot communists think 'from each according to his ability, from each according to their need means: I get to do whatever I want and be given infinite luxury goods whenever I want.

What it actually means in practice: Comrade, you are able to work 16 hours a day at the radioactive asbestos factory. And you only need flavorless gruel and a cot to sleep on. Actually scratch that, having a cot is bourgeois decadence.

[unionizeurmom]

Quick tell the socialist and former socialist states that their higher homeownership rates than any capitalist nation is bourgeoise decadence.

Lol you must be talking to babies. Which tracks if you're a libertarian or rightoid.

[generallemarc]

My guy the former socialist states are poor because of the 50 years they spent under socialism. Or are Romania and Albania akshually models of prosperity thanks to their oh-so-democratically elected socialist rulers?

[otakuvampyre]

I love how they think higher home ownership means Communism was more prosperous or something. 🤣

[cookingwithroxy]

... Does anyone want to point out that during the Communist regime there was absolutely 0 home ownership. The state owned all the housing. The reason people in these states have them NOW is because as the governments transitioned to private ownership, they essentially just gave people the houses and apartments they were already living in.

Like, it was literally 'sorting this out is too much trouble, it's your problem now.'

[leviathan-supersystem]

oh hey I missed this when I was trying to have a discussion on this post a couple days ago, but yeah, this one is a massive whopper, easily proven false.

a source explaining how home ownership worked in cuba after the revolution:

https://reimaginerpe.org/19-1/hamberg

For 50 years the great majority of Cuban households have legally owned their homes as a form of “personal property,” but with some limitations.

.

After the Cuban revolution in 1959, evictions were halted, most rents were reduced and urban land speculation was largely controlled. Through the 1960 Urban Reform Law, tenants became homeowners by amortizing the purchase price of their units through rents. Landlords and other property holders were allowed to keep their own home as well as a second vacation home. State-built housing was offered as long-term “leaseholding,” with rents set at 10 percent of family income. Private renting was prohibited. In addition, vacant units confiscated from emigrants were distributed to people in need, and the Cuban lottery was transformed into a short-lived vehicle for financing new housing. Residents of poor urban housing remained as long-term leaseholders, but by the mid-1960s, no longer paid rent.

.

The 1984 (and 1988) General Housing Laws converted most leaseholders into homeowners, legalized most illegal and ambiguous tenure situations of tens of thousands of self-builders and others, permitted free-market private rentals and sales of roof-rights, and fostered self-building by both individuals and newly permitted housing cooperatives (which never got off the ground). The only groups not converted into homeowners were residents of tenements and shantytowns, who remained rent-free leaseholders, and occupants of units directly “linked” to workplaces.

.

By the early 1990s, more than 85 percent of Cuban households were homeowners, paying little or nothing for their units except for maintenance, repair and utilities. There were no mortgages or land and property taxes. Financing for purchases of units or repair was considered a loan, not a mortgage, and therefore dwellings were not used as collateral.

article 22 of the 1976 Cuban constitution is also relevant:

these people don't bother to read or learn anything about the system they condemn, they just have an absurd caricature of that system in their head ("under communism joseph stalin owns your toothbrush and he sneaks into your house to use it every night!!!!") and then when they encounter any evidence this caricature is inaccurate they cover their ears and eyes so the devil won't use objective material facts to tempt them from the holy path of capitalism.

[cookingwithroxy]

why is it that when people are discussing eastern europe and the soviet state, your immediate reaction is 'cuba disproves this!'

Like, do you understand that Cuba. And the USSR. Are two entirely different nations with different policies and viewpoints, even if they vaguely held to the same general political model?

I had to just comment here because jesus fuck you're just not a good person.

Now again, seriously, fuck off you goddamn creeper.

[leviathan-supersystem]

first: people have been speaking in this thread about communist countries in general. if it's only true of the Soviet states and not Cuba you should specify!

second: it's not true of the Soviet states either:

Could ordinary Soviet people buy themselves an apartment?

Most apartments in the Soviet Union were distributed by the state on the basis of waiting lists. But there were other paths to becoming a ho

Most apartments in the Soviet Union were distributed by the state on the basis of waiting lists. But there were other paths to becoming a homeowner as well.

.

homeowner

.

jesus fuck you're just not a good person.

wow rude.

[yogurt-boat-69]

Americans have spent a ton of time being propagandized about communism so they often imagine, without any actual research, that it was only misery and drudgery and that only capitalism has ever allowed anyone pleasurable luxuries. Did you know that in the USSR there was a network of places for workers to take vacations? Like resorts and beach towns and health spas. It was believed that workers deserved time off and there was a voucher system to use it. History is infinitely more interesting than the flat propaganda stereotypes you've received and it's worth learning about it. Things like homes and vacations are not in fact exclusive to capitalism.

Here's an article about it. https://news.illinois.edu/vacations-part-of-soviet-unions-good-life-with-sochi-the-dream-resort/

[syabm]

"You shouldn't believe in stereotypes!" says someone making completely unbacked assumptions about why Americans hate communism.

>and that only capitalism has ever allowed anyone pleasurable luxuries.

????

Do you think anti-commie Yanks all think capitalism and communism are the only two economic systems that have ever existed?

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Ah, yes. Cuba. A model of prosperity and freedom. Also known for enviable housing, totally not run down all over. And the source? A literal propaganda blog.

The propaganda blog's source? Planners Network. A literal propaganda group. The far left constantly does self-referential BS to sound legitimate.

[leviathan-supersystem]

oh well if that source has too much of a left-wing slant for you I can find a right-wing source which will confirm the relevant facts :)

https://repository.law.miami.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1181&context=umiclr

from the extremely anti-communist article "Castro Systematic Assault on Private Ownership In Cuba":

That very same month, the Castro regime enacted an urban version of the Act, which also stripped constitutional protection from property and contract rights in yet another important societal area. Article 2A of the Urban Reform Act specifically prohibited all types of leasing and sub-leasing agreements. The Urban Reform Act went beyond proscribing any future leases. The Act rendered all existing leases of urban property null and void. Through the Urban Reform Act, the Castro regime ordered the compulsory sale of urban houses and apartments at prices fixed by the state. In order for any Cuban citizen to sell or transfer a house or apartment, the consent of the Council of Urban Reform was now required.

In addition, rents for government-built housing were capped at no more than 10% of household income. Between 1959 and 1988, nearly 1.4 million new housing units were built in Cuba. However, about half of this total housing stock is considered to be substandard

this article makes a constant effort to put an anti-communist spin on things, (considered substandard by who? in comparison to what?) but even it concedes that the Urban Reform Act cracked down on landlordism, and, significantly, acknowledges that this happened through the compulsory sale of these rental units (it plays coy about who they were sold to but the answer is "the tenants") rather than the housing simply becoming government property. and we can find numerous sources confirming Cubas current high homeownership rate:

Home Ownership by Country 2026

Data and analysis on home ownership by country, including countries with the highest percentage of home ownership and countries where the mo

Ranked: Countries with the most (and least) home ownership rate, 2025 - CEOWORLD magazine

Buying an average home in the UK is nine times more expensive than the average yearly salary. In contrast, the average American home costs o

Countries With the Highest Home Ownership Rates

Romania has the highest rate of high ownership, where over 95% of the population are homeowners.

Do you think anti-commie Yanks all think capitalism and communism are the only two economic systems that have ever existed?

@syabm

well, not *all* anti-commie yanks, but i've certainly met a lot of anti-communists who thought all societies in history could be described as being somewhere on a spectrum between capitalism and socialism, on the basis of thinking "capitalism is when there's trade, socialism is when there's state violence"- leading to the absurdity of people declaring ancient Rome to be either capitalist or socialist (largely on the basis of whether the person speaking likes Rome or not) when in reality of course ancient Rome pre-dated either capitalism or socialism.

edit: perfect example of the kind of thing i'm talking about, here's someone claiming feudalism is socialism:

(a bit of a tangent since obviously ancient Rome wasn't feudal either)

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

(considered substandard by who? in comparison to what?)

"If I just pretend to not understand they're referring to basic first-world living standards, then I don't have to acknowledge the obvious disparity."

[leviathan-supersystem]

I think the real obvious disparity here is that the homeownership rate in Cuba is 90% but it's only 65% in the USA

here's another obvious disparity:

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Wow, I wonder what influx the US has had in recent decades that was suddenly vastly expanded in the last decade and the reasons behind that.

To say nothing about you continuing to try and deflect from the low living standards.

[leviathan-supersystem]

do you think the death rate from malnutrition is unrelated to living standards?

Wow, I wonder what influx the US has had in recent decades that was suddenly vastly expanded in the last decade and the reasons behind that.

there's like 20 different ways you might be trying to go with this, but my first guess is..... immigration maybe? very dumb argument if so.

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Please, tell me how tens of millions of illegal immigrants have nothing to do with malnutrition. Does this apparent famine you've uncovered only affect the people famously not at all short of food? Surely it can't be the people just arriving from areas known to have food issues. Just because the gigantic spike correlates perfectly with the gigantic spike in illegal immigration, doesn't mean there's any sort of causation!

[robin-hood-for-freedom]

What idiot communists think 'from each according to his ability, from each according to their need means: I get to do whatever I want and be given infinite luxury goods whenever I want.

What it actually means in practice: Comrade, you are able to work 16 hours a day at the radioactive asbestos factory. And you only need flavorless gruel and a cot to sleep on. Actually scratch that, having a cot is bourgeois decadence.

[unionizeurmom]

Quick tell the socialist and former socialist states that their higher homeownership rates than any capitalist nation is bourgeoise decadence.

Lol you must be talking to babies. Which tracks if you're a libertarian or rightoid.

[generallemarc]

My guy the former socialist states are poor because of the 50 years they spent under socialism. Or are Romania and Albania akshually models of prosperity thanks to their oh-so-democratically elected socialist rulers?

[otakuvampyre]

I love how they think higher home ownership means Communism was more prosperous or something. 🤣

[cookingwithroxy]

... Does anyone want to point out that during the Communist regime there was absolutely 0 home ownership. The state owned all the housing. The reason people in these states have them NOW is because as the governments transitioned to private ownership, they essentially just gave people the houses and apartments they were already living in.

Like, it was literally 'sorting this out is too much trouble, it's your problem now.'

[leviathan-supersystem]

oh hey I missed this when I was trying to have a discussion on this post a couple days ago, but yeah, this one is a massive whopper, easily proven false.

a source explaining how home ownership worked in cuba after the revolution:

https://reimaginerpe.org/19-1/hamberg

For 50 years the great majority of Cuban households have legally owned their homes as a form of “personal property,” but with some limitations.

.

After the Cuban revolution in 1959, evictions were halted, most rents were reduced and urban land speculation was largely controlled. Through the 1960 Urban Reform Law, tenants became homeowners by amortizing the purchase price of their units through rents. Landlords and other property holders were allowed to keep their own home as well as a second vacation home. State-built housing was offered as long-term “leaseholding,” with rents set at 10 percent of family income. Private renting was prohibited. In addition, vacant units confiscated from emigrants were distributed to people in need, and the Cuban lottery was transformed into a short-lived vehicle for financing new housing. Residents of poor urban housing remained as long-term leaseholders, but by the mid-1960s, no longer paid rent.

.

The 1984 (and 1988) General Housing Laws converted most leaseholders into homeowners, legalized most illegal and ambiguous tenure situations of tens of thousands of self-builders and others, permitted free-market private rentals and sales of roof-rights, and fostered self-building by both individuals and newly permitted housing cooperatives (which never got off the ground). The only groups not converted into homeowners were residents of tenements and shantytowns, who remained rent-free leaseholders, and occupants of units directly “linked” to workplaces.

.

By the early 1990s, more than 85 percent of Cuban households were homeowners, paying little or nothing for their units except for maintenance, repair and utilities. There were no mortgages or land and property taxes. Financing for purchases of units or repair was considered a loan, not a mortgage, and therefore dwellings were not used as collateral.

article 22 of the 1976 Cuban constitution is also relevant:

these people don't bother to read or learn anything about the system they condemn, they just have an absurd caricature of that system in their head ("under communism joseph stalin owns your toothbrush and he sneaks into your house to use it every night!!!!") and then when they encounter any evidence this caricature is inaccurate they cover their ears and eyes so the devil won't use objective material facts to tempt them from the holy path of capitalism.

[cookingwithroxy]

why is it that when people are discussing eastern europe and the soviet state, your immediate reaction is 'cuba disproves this!'

Like, do you understand that Cuba. And the USSR. Are two entirely different nations with different policies and viewpoints, even if they vaguely held to the same general political model?

I had to just comment here because jesus fuck you're just not a good person.

Now again, seriously, fuck off you goddamn creeper.

[leviathan-supersystem]

first: people have been speaking in this thread about communist countries in general. if it's only true of the Soviet states and not Cuba you should specify!

second: it's not true of the Soviet states either:

Could ordinary Soviet people buy themselves an apartment?

Most apartments in the Soviet Union were distributed by the state on the basis of waiting lists. But there were other paths to becoming a ho

Most apartments in the Soviet Union were distributed by the state on the basis of waiting lists. But there were other paths to becoming a homeowner as well.

.

homeowner

.

jesus fuck you're just not a good person.

wow rude.

[yogurt-boat-69]

Americans have spent a ton of time being propagandized about communism so they often imagine, without any actual research, that it was only misery and drudgery and that only capitalism has ever allowed anyone pleasurable luxuries. Did you know that in the USSR there was a network of places for workers to take vacations? Like resorts and beach towns and health spas. It was believed that workers deserved time off and there was a voucher system to use it. History is infinitely more interesting than the flat propaganda stereotypes you've received and it's worth learning about it. Things like homes and vacations are not in fact exclusive to capitalism.

Here's an article about it. https://news.illinois.edu/vacations-part-of-soviet-unions-good-life-with-sochi-the-dream-resort/

[syabm]

"You shouldn't believe in stereotypes!" says someone making completely unbacked assumptions about why Americans hate communism.

>and that only capitalism has ever allowed anyone pleasurable luxuries.

????

Do you think anti-commie Yanks all think capitalism and communism are the only two economic systems that have ever existed?

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Ah, yes. Cuba. A model of prosperity and freedom. Also known for enviable housing, totally not run down all over. And the source? A literal propaganda blog.

The propaganda blog's source? Planners Network. A literal propaganda group. The far left constantly does self-referential BS to sound legitimate.

[leviathan-supersystem]

oh well if that source has too much of a left-wing slant for you I can find a right-wing source which will confirm the relevant facts :)

https://repository.law.miami.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1181&context=umiclr

from the extremely anti-communist article "Castro Systematic Assault on Private Ownership In Cuba":

That very same month, the Castro regime enacted an urban version of the Act, which also stripped constitutional protection from property and contract rights in yet another important societal area. Article 2A of the Urban Reform Act specifically prohibited all types of leasing and sub-leasing agreements. The Urban Reform Act went beyond proscribing any future leases. The Act rendered all existing leases of urban property null and void. Through the Urban Reform Act, the Castro regime ordered the compulsory sale of urban houses and apartments at prices fixed by the state. In order for any Cuban citizen to sell or transfer a house or apartment, the consent of the Council of Urban Reform was now required.

In addition, rents for government-built housing were capped at no more than 10% of household income. Between 1959 and 1988, nearly 1.4 million new housing units were built in Cuba. However, about half of this total housing stock is considered to be substandard

this article makes a constant effort to put an anti-communist spin on things, (considered substandard by who? in comparison to what?) but even it concedes that the Urban Reform Act cracked down on landlordism, and, significantly, acknowledges that this happened through the compulsory sale of these rental units (it plays coy about who they were sold to but the answer is "the tenants") rather than the housing simply becoming government property. and we can find numerous sources confirming Cubas current high homeownership rate:

Home Ownership by Country 2026

Data and analysis on home ownership by country, including countries with the highest percentage of home ownership and countries where the mo

Ranked: Countries with the most (and least) home ownership rate, 2025 - CEOWORLD magazine

Buying an average home in the UK is nine times more expensive than the average yearly salary. In contrast, the average American home costs o

Countries With the Highest Home Ownership Rates

Romania has the highest rate of high ownership, where over 95% of the population are homeowners.

Do you think anti-commie Yanks all think capitalism and communism are the only two economic systems that have ever existed?

@syabm

well, not *all* anti-commie yanks, but i've certainly met a lot of anti-communists who thought all societies in history could be described as being somewhere on a spectrum between capitalism and socialism, on the basis of thinking "capitalism is when there's trade, socialism is when there's state violence"- leading to the absurdity of people declaring ancient Rome to be either capitalist or socialist (largely on the basis of whether the person speaking likes Rome or not) when in reality of course ancient Rome pre-dated either capitalism or socialism.

edit: perfect example of the kind of thing i'm talking about, here's someone claiming feudalism is socialism:

(a bit of a tangent since obviously ancient Rome wasn't feudal either)

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

(considered substandard by who? in comparison to what?)

"If I just pretend to not understand they're referring to basic first-world living standards, then I don't have to acknowledge the obvious disparity."

[leviathan-supersystem]

I think the real obvious disparity here is that the homeownership rate in Cuba is 90% but it's only 65% in the USA

here's another obvious disparity:

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

Wow, I wonder what influx the US has had in recent decades that was suddenly vastly expanded in the last decade and the reasons behind that.

To say nothing about you continuing to try and deflect from the low living standards.

[whitager]

i used to buy into that online leftist black-and-white Glorious Revolution stuff and what i remember about my mindset at that time. stresses me out tbh. i couldn't see the viability of anything short of full-scale revolution so i constantly felt helpless. i viewed the revolution as necessary to address any and all societal problems, but i was also, privately, terrified of it. i didn't want to die for the cause, but i told myself that if that was what happened when the revolution came it would be worth it, that my blood could move us that much faster toward perfect socialist utopia.

in this mindset, the only useful thing i could do was die. i didn't want to. i wasn't generally suicidal (although i do consider this mindset a form of... abstract suicidal thought). but i believed my life was the only meaningful thing i had to offer.

now i'm a member of a community who values me and values my contributions even if i can't contribute as much as i'd like -- a community that emphasizes that every single good deed matters, every compassionate act changes the world. a community where just showing up is enough.

now i know that i can change so much more while i'm alive than i'd ever be able to as a corpse on a battlefield. i know that if i keep showing up, i will find or someone will show me a way to make a difference. i know that i am valued as more than a hypothetical martyr in some grand final battle. i know that i am missed when i'm gone. i know that the actual work is done by regular people with a goal in mind, and i know that that work is unglamorous. i know the unglamorous work is often the most meaningful and the most fulfilling.

the "revolution or nothing" mindset is rendering my generation hopeless. a very loud portion of gen z now believes the only contribution they have to offer is their life. this belief effectively nullifies a person's capacity to create meaningful change; any action they could take while alive is not worthwhile because it won't fix the world's myriad problems in one fell swoop -- better to burn it all down and yourself with it.

if they weren't actively fucking over the rest of us to feed their own suicidal hopelessness, i'd feel sorry for them.

[whitager]

there's a phenomenon i've observed wherein a person stews in their own misery, hopelessness, anger, fear, to the point that they can no longer fathom that something might exist outside of that, and so they reject any effort to improve their situation because they no longer believe it can be improved.

i am not blaming the people who are in this place. it's a terrifying, dark place to be in, and when you're there it really does feel like it's the only thing that exists. this is the place where people kill themselves.

i think, though, that this phenomenon, scaled up to apply to politics and activism, undergirds so much of what we see from the left now -- the world is dark and terrifying, and in the 24-hour news cycle, social media doomscrolling era we live in it's so so easy to only see the bad, and when you surround yourself with other scared, overwhelmed people, it can form a sort of 2014-tumblr-depression-tag echo chamber where that hopelessness is glorified and lauded and propped up as Correct And Enlightened.

and then they commit hate crimes about it and my sympathy shuts all the way off.

[megpie71]

Boosting signal

[aetherograph]

I will always remember something my state-appointed psychiatrist said to me when we first met and I was giving him the run-down of my life so far, and I said "and I'm homeless right now--" and he stopped me.

'I LOVE that you just said that. That you said "right now"!' he said. 'So many of my homeless patients say they're homeless like it's their job, and that means they never see a way out of it.'

'Well,' I said, knowing the statistics. 'Most people are on the street for a year on average. It's not forever, it can't be. nothing is.'

And because I had the audacity, the boldness, to assume I was only homeless right now, I actively kept living like it was a temporary state, like I deserved housing and deserved care and deserved better than i had right now. Because it was only for right now. It wasn't forever. It couldn't be. Nothing is.

I was homeless for about a year and a half. And then I got housed. And right now I live IN a house, with good friends.

But it's only for right now. It isn't forever. It can't be. Nothing is. And whatever's coming next is going to be better! Because I have the audacity, the boldness, to assume it will be and that I deserve it.

And you do too.

But you HAVE to start thinking of misfortune as only being temporary. It's just bad right now. Practise that. "It sucks--right now" "I'm miserable--right now". Just a small thing. But it makes a big difference. It makes all the difference.

Because if you always put "right now" at the end, no matter how miserable you get, you have left a little crack.

And that's how the light gets in.

[inky-embers-of-unruly-hope]

the phenomenon i'd just call nihilism. i rotated myself in it for years since i found out about my autism suddenly there was a whole new group of people who wanted me to not exist. i still fall into it from the general state of the world and it's this arrogant mindset of thinking you know the absolute truth of the world and it's better to be in the know and miserable than try any other option and be happy. and it's not easy to dig yourself out of that hole even if you genuinely want to and hate what it's doing to you and you don't want to be like that but what helps is just letting in the possibility that you might be wrong about all of it. maybe we'll find out the grass is blue. maybe fascism is the right option. maybe i'm wrong about everything i ever thought. and that doesn't mean i should doubt it all, it's still valid and has an empirical basis and it's still important to fight for what you believe in, i just need to leave some room in my perception to accept that i don't know everything. i can't. it's all just between the earth and the universe.

[generallemarc]

Nihilism is an ultimately self-defeating belief. Because if nothing matters, then everything matters the exact same amount, ie not at all. This includes the fact that nothing matters, therefore why should said fact change anything at all about how you think or live your life? If nothing matters, you have no reason to do anything differently-after all, if it's all the same in the end, why should you stop doing what you love and being happy?

[epiczeus]

Some would call that "optimistic nihilism", believing that because nothing matters there's no reason to wallow in misery and should just make your own joy.

[generallemarc]

From a philosophical standpoint, I don't see how there can be any other interpretation of nihilism. If it's true that literally nothing matters, that truth is just as worthless as everything else, so what does it matter? A philosophy with no application to people's lives is pointless. Source: Rene Descartes, who invented solipsism only to disprove it.

[throwitonthepilethesecond]

I mean, there's the "voluntary human extinction movement." They exist, and their philosophy as applied is "buddhism, hold the reincarnation."

[generallemarc]

Well, the thing about them is that they're crazy

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

The state that OP describes is one I've encountered in several of my leftist friends. What gets me is how similar it is between them. Sometimes making the same argument, word for word, despite not knowing each other or quoting anyone or anything. It's incredibly eerie.

Most often, I've seen it in people who had extreme trauma as a child, in various forms. Consequently, they also often have very few friends, as their trauma reactions combined with negativity tends to drive people away. Repeatedly losing friends that way tends to make them extremely distrustful and bitter. It becomes a very powerful negative feedback loop.

Their states tend to be so extreme that they haven't had the chance to learn important social skills. Their moods change incredibly fast and easily, making people uncomfortable with how unpredictable they could be.

The biggest difficulty by far with every one I've encountered, is that they sometimes enter altered states of mind. Specifics vary, but each time, the person would start to believe that they are uniquely hated. Not in a paranoid, people out to get them way. But that some undescribable quality about them made people just dislike their very existence. Each one would tell me that they were clearly a horrible, evil person, worse than murderers. Because why else would everyone avoid them?

These are very much not a normal state of mind. Afterwards, they realize and acknowledge that such beliefs don't make sense. In the moment though, all they can feel is the crushing loneliness and fear of being abandoned or betrayed yet again.

In my experience, it's near impossible to do much for them when in that state. Only to try to be a calm and solid presence, listening to their pain. Importantly, don't take things personally! It's common for them to come to the conclusion that you hate them too, and they then lash out. They then regret the things they say, but most people can't handle such people and leave. It's very difficult to help them, unfortunately.

Part of what drives them into that is actually that each of them are very kind and caring people normally. Due to that, few people are willing to tell them why they avoid these people, either feeling hypocritical or fearing to hurt them. Thus they're left with very limited feedback as to why they are avoided, hence they conclude they are innately unlikeable.

It's a brutal, self-fulfilling state of mind.

[whitager]

wait a second i have bpd this explains so fucking much

[yourpoliticsarestupid]

I suspect that both the politics and the splits descend from the childhood trauma, at least in the people I know.

I also suspect there's a mental loop that kicks in in the (quite short) prelude to a split. There's a few times I've seen one coming, but almost everything gets redirected into supporting the split. It's like some kind of mental quicksand. I can practically see their thought process being pulled back into the self-destructive self-hatred, even from entirely unrelated topics.

Unfortunately, what works for them to catch it internally may well exacerbate it from an external source. This seems to be due the split's nature in being related to feelings that other people hate them. The best success I've had by far is outright non-sequiturs to disrupt the line of thought via surprise, confusion, etc. Difficult to do consistently as they get used to it.

Unfortunately, good mental healthcare is still very rare. I'm told central Europe is supposed to have good mental healthcare, but the things they tell me their doctors and therapists say and do are breathtakingly awful.